The International Simutrans Forum

 

Author Topic: Pak128 Timeline discussion  (Read 8861 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Roads

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 645
Pak128 Timeline discussion
« on: April 15, 2012, 07:12:16 AM »

I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in liking the rough roads, early vehicles, ships, trains and planes.  To my disappointment I've found that the game is simply unplayable using these vehicles.  I'm referring to the Praga Bus, Willamette Chief ship specifically although I suspect other vehicles are in the same category.  That is, operating these vehicles, even at full capacity, is a losing proposition.


I'm not sure what the reason for this is, I have some ideas but whatever the reason, it is forcing us who would like to play 1900 to 1930 impossible.


Yes the game is very slow using these vehicles but that is also something I would like to address.  Could we possibly have a variable speed game instead of just one set speed and fast forward?  Personally I have never used fast forward and truthfully even the set speed is sometimes too fast when I'm wanting to follow more than one vehicle's path to see what is actually happening.


Also it seems like there used to be bicycles and even animals used for transport.  I would love to see those brought back.


Possibly this is just a one percent thingy on my part.  I'm posting this to see if that's the case.

Offline Randy007

  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: early era game
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2012, 07:38:36 AM »
Hi Roads,

first check the lines for "seatblocking" Pax for whom you get not paid. Second use the keybord "," for speed up and the "." for slow down. You don't have to use the fast forward-Button.

have fun

Offline HeinBloed

  • *
  • Posts: 79
  • Languages: DE, EN, FR
Re: early era game
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2012, 09:19:01 AM »
I think you should move this to the relevant Pakset forum. There may be considerable differences between the balancing of different Paksets. Even though I've only played with Pak128 and Pak128.Britain-exp, I'm sure of that.

To give you an example, you can definitely make money starting in 1900 playing Experimental+Pak128.Britain.exp (it's not a question of the underlying game engine though but rather how the specific Pakset is adapted for the game engine it runs on) and using horse-drawn vehicles only, although it's not easy. But balancing generally is difficult and therefore it's not a favourite task. ;)

Offline kierongreen

  • Dev Team, Coder/patcher
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 2256
Re: early era game
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2012, 09:23:01 AM »
pakBritain is geared up for early era running. I think vehicles in early eras should remain as slow on screen. It gives the early eras a different feel from the later ones which have trains almost flying across the screen.

Offline Roads

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 645
Re: early era game
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2012, 01:08:18 PM »
@ all

Thank you for your responses and for moving this to the appropriate forum.  From all the info here it looks like what I want can be accomplished with just some keystrokes and maybe some addon "vehicles."

Does anyone know of some early vehicles that can be added as an addon?

Special thanks Randy007 for the info about changing the speed of the game.  This is great!
I don't understand about the "seatblocking."  I looked in the simuconf file but didn't find anything about it there.  Also did a search and only your post and mine came up...
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 01:26:40 PM by Roads »

Offline Randy007

  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: early era game
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2012, 01:57:37 PM »
LOL  ;) I am natural german, so excuse my bad english. "seatblocking" means simus hijacking the vehicle take a long journey but pay for a short. The seat are blocked! So you have to rearange the line. Thats mostly the reason, if line run by full capacity and making minus.

Offline Roads

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 645
Re: early era game
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2012, 04:58:27 PM »

@Randy007

*laughing* Your English is way better than my German...doubt I could read a word much less write any.  My youngest son does read and write German very well though.  I should get him to teach me...

Anyway, sorry, I still don't understand.  What is simus hijacking?  I googled the word simus and apparently it is some kind of bear.  In a way of speaking so is this problem. :)

Okay, I'm thinking out loud...simus...simultaneously?  Oh, ohhhh...you mean clicking on the vehicle when in route to a destination and sending it on another route?  If this is what you mean then you have indeed told me something I did not know.  I'm guessing that the engine charges for the original trip and does not re-figure the charges if you change the trip en route?  If that works, I could do that but you are talking big time micro management.  Also I would need to build another dock... 

Still can't figure out what you mean by the seat(s) are blocked.

 

Offline Fabio

  • Devotee
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2898
  • The Pak128 Guy
    • Visit me on Facebook
  • Languages: EN, IT, RO, FR
Re: early era game
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2012, 05:19:23 PM »
I think he means that the longer a route is compared to the route of the crow flies (i.e. The straight line between A and B), the less profitable the route becomes. Over a certain length, the route will become unprofitable at all, because the pax pay only for the straight distance, whereas you pay the vehicle running cost for the whole travelled distance. The pax are "highjacked" because they are carried over an unnecessarily long distance.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

  • Benevolent Dictator
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 3604
  • PanamaCityPC.com/support/
    • Facebook Profile
  • Languages: EN
Re: early era game
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2012, 06:27:10 PM »
Erm... "Simus" is being used like "Pax" - passengers. The etymology of "simus" (plural of a single "simu"): Since the game is Simutrans, obviously you transport "simus", right? :) Thus the game of transporting simus is Simu-trans. hehe

Offline Randy007

  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: early era game
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2012, 06:37:08 PM »
 ;D Simus are the passangers in Simutrans for me - I bag your pardon!! - Now to the problem: I don't know the balancing in pak128, because i am playing pak64.german. But the harder the balancing, the straighter must be the building of the routes (not much detours) of your lines and the higher the minimum load of the vehicles. On a ringsystem you need 2 linies - 1 making a right circle and 1 making a left circle, otherwise passangers traveling a long distance but you get only paid for the short distance. Expl.: a ring with 6 Stations A-B-C-D-E-F. Passangers from B wants to go to A. If you don't have a reverse linie, they have to go the long distance over C,D,E and F but you get only paid for B to A. That was the meanning of "blocking seats"

have fun

Offline Roads

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 645
Re: early era game
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2012, 10:45:53 PM »
@Fabio
@Isaac
@Randy

I would like to quote Jack Nickelson and say, "what we have here is a failure to communicate." :)
But that is not exactly the case as it was simply ignorance on my part.  I understand now.  Thank you all very much.  The sea route between the cities is considerably longer than the land route because at one point the land protrudes out into the sea something similar to the way Florida does in the U.S.  I could try a land/sea combination to get a shorter route.  Maybe I will try that or perhaps in another game.  In my current game I've already sent the money losers to the depot and upgraded to the next newer ship.  It is making a small profit.

All of your explanations were excellent!  I think I will start calling the citizens in the game Simus instead of Simutranians.  It's shorter and really has a more exotic sound than Simutranians which seems more appropriate to me.


EDIT:  @Isaac: Upon re-reading this I realized I had not appreciated the logic in your statement.  It is very good. :)

Randy, thank you for the example situation A-B-C-D-E-F and reverse lines.  This is something I have to think about a lot!  Actually it adds a dimension to the game I did not know about.  From now on, not only will I be thinking about how to give the Simus only one choice in the route to take but also about the profitability of the route.  It may be my imagination but it seems I have had difficulties when I give the Simus more than one choice when deciding on a route. 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 10:11:32 AM by Roads »

Offline Roads

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 645
Pak128 Timeline discussion
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2012, 09:46:01 AM »
Well, I hope this doesn't sound ungrateful because I love this game.  I have been playing computer games since the first ones were made on the old PC's that you had to boot up with a floppy and IMHO, this is the best one yet, over all.


Still, there is a problem with pak128 for anyone who wants to play the early years.  Best I can tell, the game is absolutely unplayable prior to 1930.  Beginning in 1930 you have to be very careful in what roads/railroads/boats, you choose or you will go broke very quickly.  None, and please correct me if I'm wrong, of the earliest modes of transportation are economically viable.

Offline Markohs

  • DevTeam, Coder/patcher
  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1559
  • Languages: EN,ES,CAT
Re: Pak128 Timeline discussion
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2012, 10:10:39 AM »
Never played transportation on such timeline, but do you use public infrastructure for building the roads/rails?

Offline Zeno

  • ENASSA Designer
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1997
    • Zeno's Simutrans Creations
  • Languages: ES, EN, CAT
Re: Pak128 Timeline discussion
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2012, 10:11:30 AM »
Well, the pak's objective is to grant timeline from 1930 to "future" (let's say 2020, maybe 2030).
Pre-1930 era lacks almost everything... you can just find a couple of ships, a couple of steam trains, and very few things more.
I'm not sure, as unfortunately I'm not very active here in the last times, but I think there are no plans to expand the timeline yet.

Offline Fabio

  • Devotee
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2898
  • The Pak128 Guy
    • Visit me on Facebook
  • Languages: EN, IT, RO, FR
Re: Pak128 Timeline discussion
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2012, 12:14:25 PM »
IIRC in "material" folder there are still several early vehicles from our beloved Raven/Rojo, so maybe we could try to use them in order to extend a bit the timeline in the past...

Offline Zeno

  • ENASSA Designer
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1997
    • Zeno's Simutrans Creations
  • Languages: ES, EN, CAT
Re: Pak128 Timeline discussion
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2012, 07:33:37 PM »
I've taken a look there... there's the "eu truck set" from Raven, which contains numerous trucks and trailers. Most looks like post-1930 stuff though.

Offline Fabio

  • Devotee
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2898
  • The Pak128 Guy
    • Visit me on Facebook
  • Languages: EN, IT, RO, FR
Re: Pak128 Timeline discussion
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2012, 08:24:38 PM »
So I was mistaken with the buildings.  Sorry for the mislead hopes... But couldn't some steamers and cars have earlier intro dates?

Offline Roads

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 645
Re: Pak128 Timeline discussion
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2012, 11:26:45 PM »
Many thanks everyone for taking an interest in this.


@Markohs


Generally I begin my game using public money to build roads to six or seven cities with no more than 600-700 citizens.  I like watching my tiny little cities grow so prefer not having them pre-built.  I have no problem becoming profitable if I'm careful using the 50 mph roads and the brown vehicles - I forget their name now - and building a couple of good industries like wood/furniture and cotton/wool/textiles.  Anytime I have tried using the 30 mph road or a train or ship, I've gone broke.

Offline VS

  • Senior Plumber (Devotee)
  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 4855
  • Vladimír Slávik
    • VS's Simutrans site
  • Languages: CS,EN
Re: Pak128 Timeline discussion
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2012, 07:17:05 AM »
The plan is to have a playable timeline since 1870 or so. That is very far away, though.

Offline Roads

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 645
Re: Pak128 Timeline discussion
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2012, 08:59:12 AM »
1870 would be so great!  Thanks for posting that.  I didn't realize there were any plans for pre 1930.  Now have something else to look forward to. :)

Offline VS

  • Senior Plumber (Devotee)
  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 4855
  • Vladimír Slávik
    • VS's Simutrans site
  • Languages: CS,EN
Re: Pak128 Timeline discussion
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2012, 09:07:22 AM »
Well, these are just plans. There isn't much actual content... ::(

Offline tonu

  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: Pak128 Timeline discussion
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2012, 06:18:02 AM »
Hi!
I like to start the game as earliest as its possible, so I'm changing the vehicles and adapting to the game speeds, I prefer railroads.
I started a new one a few days ago with the pak release and I'm thinking about the timeline.
First, railroads started about 1800. The first steam railroads appeared in England about 1830. The first locomotive in the pak appears in 1901 (very late), and I think its power and speed are very low.
Maybe the railroad vehicles timeline can be "stretched back" (so the vehicles appear earlier).
Another possibility (not exclusionary with the other) is to adapt some engines and waggons from pak 128 britain. I take a look and they have railroads from 1750, with waggons driven by horses and lots of locomotives.
What do you think?
Regards

Offline VS

  • Senior Plumber (Devotee)
  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 4855
  • Vladimír Slávik
    • VS's Simutrans site
  • Languages: CS,EN
Re: Pak128 Timeline discussion
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2012, 09:43:11 AM »
One word: "planned" :) There is just always  so much to do...

Offline greenling

  • Lounger
  • *
  • Posts: 1728
  • Simutransarchology it my hobby!
  • Languages: DE,EN
Re: Pak128 Timeline discussion
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2013, 08:06:53 PM »
tonu
It gave a time, there have gives three addon with those was possible to play before 1930 but
the devloper lose after a crash the key to make new modells before 1930.
A lend out from vehicles out pak128.britain it not useful.vehicles out pak128.britain have a another working system.

Offline waerth

  • *
  • Posts: 145
Re: Pak128 Timeline discussion
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2013, 05:51:44 PM »
Just as a test I have started at 1900 and fastforwarded time just seeing when new vehicles get introduced (with the . and , keys btw) From 1910 onwards the game starts to get marginally playable with trams and monorail :). I will report back back later. It currently moves at about 1,5 year per minute approximately.

W

Edit: From 1910-1915 not many new things.
Edit: 1918 sees ships, new tram and the first pax train and first airplane! :) Still no road pax vehicles though.
Edit: 1919 has the first Bus introduced Full pax operations are possible from this year on!
Edit: 1923 first mail truck. Many new road trucks by now and 3 busses for pax transport. Apart from trains where you only have 2 choices a 82 km/h loc or an 50 km/h electric loc you can play pax games from 1923 onwards most definately!
Edit: 1926 it now definitely gets excited! First subway, Trolley bus etc many new trucks and some boats. From 1926 on apart from higher speed rail you have it all to start :)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 06:26:40 PM by waerth »

Offline greenling

  • Lounger
  • *
  • Posts: 1728
  • Simutransarchology it my hobby!
  • Languages: DE,EN
Re: Pak128 Timeline discussion
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2013, 05:57:44 PM »
I need a Programmer there build in A Timeline for Basement.
Basements have over the time change her view.