Author Topic: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128  (Read 21467 times)

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Offline ny911

Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« on: February 25, 2013, 07:57:37 PM »
Swiss mountains - scenario Version 0.1

nightly r6352, pak128 2.2.0 r1142
Map 512*512 ; Alps area, Swiss ; lang=en,de
 
Main points:
  • less terraforimg and more expensive
  • tree cut down cost more
  • the rock pressure on tunnel is relevant for their approval
  • no way in the real high mountains
EDIT: new Version
swiss_v02.zip (Version 0.2,  1.87 MB , until 2013-07-04)
swiss_v01.zip (Version 0.1,  1.87 MB , until 2013-06-25)
new link: http://scenarios.simutrans.com/scenario/pak128/swiss_mountains
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 11:53:25 AM by ny911 »

Offline greenling

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Re: Swiss mountains - scenario version 0.1 - pak128
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2013, 08:56:33 PM »
Hello NY911
the glacier express drive over the Oberalbpass and a road goes too.
And the Furkapass,Gotthardpass have a road.
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Offline ny911

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario version 0.1 - pak128
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2013, 09:10:00 PM »
the glacier express drive over the Oberalbpass and a road goes too.
And the Furkapass,Gotthardpass have a road.
Yes, I know. In the game it's only the mountain peaks and to make the scenario a bit more challenging.
Without this rule the player can build to easily the roads and tracks to cross the mountains.
To turn off the rule remove line 41 & 42 in the scenario.nut

Offline Sarlock

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario version 0.1 - pak128
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2013, 12:09:49 AM »
Very nice!  Nice trees, too  ;)
Current projects: Pak128 Trees, blender graphics

Offline Combuijs

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Re: Swiss mountains - scenario version 0.1 - pak128
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2013, 09:36:45 AM »
Hmm, nice!

Can I ask where the heightmap is coming from? I don't seem to have it in my Simutrans Maps collection...
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Offline ny911

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario version 0.1 - pak128
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2013, 06:45:00 PM »
Can I ask where the heightmap is coming from? I don't seem to have it in my Simutrans Maps collection...
My work.  :)

Swiss Heigtmap 512*512
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/map_swisse_05.ppm

Offline Combuijs

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Re: Swiss mountains - scenario version 0.1 - pak128
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2013, 07:33:26 PM »
Thank you! Posted on Simutrans Maps. Will write something in the blog.
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Offline greenling

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Re: Swiss mountains - scenario version 0.1 - pak128
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2013, 08:36:36 PM »
Thank you for the new map.
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Offline Fabio

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Re: Swiss mountains - scenario version 0.1 - pak128
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2013, 10:01:05 PM »
It could go in official scenarios as well!

Offline prissi

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Re: Swiss mountains - scenario version 0.1 - pak128
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2013, 09:36:43 AM »
MAybe it is time for online download of scenarios form scenarios.simutrans.com ...

Offline ny911

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario version 0.1 - pak128
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2013, 06:35:07 PM »
MAybe it is time for online download of scenarios form scenarios.simutrans.com ...
Yes. Where do I apply?



Offline Combuijs

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Re: Swiss mountains - scenario version 0.1 - pak128
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2013, 07:50:07 PM »
Ask Isaac for a place on the Simutrans Server, and when you got it, ask Timothy for handling the subdomain.
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Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall

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Re: Swiss mountains - scenario version 0.1 - pak128
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2013, 09:43:29 PM »
Exactly! I'm creating the subdomain and sending him the login details :)

Offline Ashley

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario version 0.1 - pak128
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2013, 09:47:31 PM »
I have created the DNS record.
Use Firefox? Interested in IPv6? Try SixOrNot the IPv6 status indicator for Firefox.
Why not try playing Simutrans online? See the Game Servers board for details.

Offline ny911

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario version 0.1 - pak128
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2013, 03:32:14 PM »
It could go in official scenarios as well!

So here is a small update of the scenario:
swiss_v02.zip (Version 0.2, 1.87MB)

for: nightly r6379, pak128 2.2.0 r1170

change:
- target window (include change of target counter)
- tunnel level 3 was able without level 2
- new message if maximal tunnel level changes in game
- moved Zürich airport
- more rivers and river names
- less bugs

Offline VS

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Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2013, 03:54:11 PM »
Since Fabio already asked - would you allow inclusion of this scenario in pak128?

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

Offline ny911

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2013, 04:01:52 PM »
Since Fabio already asked - would you allow inclusion of this scenario in pak128?
sure!

I started a few minutes ago a translation thread to get more languages. ...

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2013, 05:17:45 PM »
If script should be included in repository I would like to force some coding style. Your script is almost perfect. My only complaint is that there is no consistent indentation. Imho indentation should be done by tabs, one tab-stop per indentation level.

Thank you for your work on these GREAT scenarios!
Parsley, sage, rosemary, and maggikraut.

Offline ny911

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2013, 06:54:05 PM »
My only complaint is that there is no consistent indentation. Imho indentation should be done by tabs, one tab-stop per indentation level.
That's easy. I will change it. Save as ... done. See attachment.

Quote
Thank you for your work on these GREAT scenarios!
Thanks to you for all the new scenario functions to get it work and of course for the support!

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Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2013, 07:07:27 PM »
I am sorry,  I still have one more complaint, again indentation. I would like to see indentation like
Code: [Select]
if (1==1)
{
   bla
}
ie curly bracket at same indentation level as the opening if/for/whatever clause. Sorry for being this pedantic.

Edit: Is this script ready for being included into pak128 ?
Parsley, sage, rosemary, and maggikraut.

Offline ny911

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2013, 08:18:30 PM »
Quote
Sorry for being this pedantic.
no problem.

It's just to use the replace function in the editor.

Quote
Is this script ready for being included into pak128 ?
In my opinion yes.

Offline VS

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Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2013, 06:19:25 PM »
I have committed version #2 as attached in first post, in r1178. Many thanks! :D

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Offline benste

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2013, 11:18:41 PM »
Awesome work I'm really looking forward to get more of this..


Did anybody finish playing it already ?
Started down in the Milan / Verona area, suprisingly there seem to be some issues with boosted production of "Bretter" for the wholesales in Milan and the town at the right end of the map - now finally nothing is getting delivered anymore (somehow like a max ..) used to work for about 30years, but "bretter" slowly piled up at both sawmills and didn't get distributed to the ship yard - even though the was no overcorwding , neither the max of the month reached nor the max at the wholesale reached..




If you want to i could also provide a savegame please let me know soon otherwise i'll delete the savegame


- further more a mino bug in the nice idea of max. height changes per year
seems like once you used e.g. 1/4 it's using a timer to count back - but it's counting kinda debit and never stopping - so atm. I'm allowd +24 changes (which i guess wasn't intended)


Thanks for fixing - and once again AWESOME work - need to get more of these ! (download needs to be integrated into the game for other scenarios !)

Offline ny911

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2013, 10:38:35 AM »
Awesome work I'm really looking forward to get more of this..
still in work, but it needs time...

Quote
Did anybody finish playing it already ?
Yes the V.0.1 I played two times completely, just to find out how realistic the scenario game settings are (using the freeplay mode to speed up testing).

Quote
but "bretter" slowly piled up at both sawmills and didn't get distributed to the ship yard - even though the was no overcrowding , neither the max of the month reached nor the max at the wholesale reached..

If you want to i could also provide a savegame please let me know soon otherwise i'll delete the savegame
Is there no translation for "bretter" working? I didn't find the place in the code where it is missing. To give you a better answer where the overcrowding problem is, please make a upload of the savegame somewhere. e.g. http://files.simutrans-germany.com/

Quote
further more a mino bug in the nice idea of max. height changes per year
seems like once you used e.g. 1/4 it's using a timer to count back - but it's counting kinda debit and never stopping - so atm. I'm allowd +24 changes (which i guess wasn't intended)
The script counts back each month. The city list in the scenario window shows : used height changes which are actual remembered by the citizens and the amount of month until they forget everything.
Oh, I see, there is a difference  to the popup informations. Here it's shown used height changes against maximum. So I will have to change only the text to avoid confusions.


Offline benste

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2013, 10:44:46 AM »
Thanks for your quick reply - started a new game this morning similar issues, but the overcrowding might be a thing which i'm not really taking into acount yet, having a central HUB like system instead of direct routes i'm kinda trouble to keep things up an running - e.g. this morning i had a sawmill completly messing up  because one of the stops wihtin the 8 different type of transport changes was sometimes overcrowded.

Does it really take into account the whole route ???
Feel free to let me know the overcrowded stations in
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/swiss_mountains_1_buggy_milan.sve

Offline benste

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2013, 10:46:09 AM »
PS when exactly do you get the 1st tunnel level ?? - I'm delivering plenty of wholesales with "bretter" now and it's still 0 - what do you mean by the 6600 target ? 


btw. "bretter" = the thing which is produced at the sawmill - i'm just to lazy to change display language in Simutrans from german to something else :)

Offline ny911

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2013, 11:16:05 AM »
- e.g. this morning i had a sawmill completly messing up  because one of the stops wihtin the 8 different type of transport changes was sometimes overcrowded.
Does it really take into account the whole route ???
Yes. e.g. in your savegame you have a overcrowded station at "Basel". As long as you don't manage to reduce the planks for "Bern" in "Basel" the sawmill will not deliver anything for "Bern". The same for "Milano" there you have the problem at "Piacenza".

Try to use the map inside the game. Inside the map window use "Networks" and from the selection buttons "stop status", now you can see every overcrowded station as a red point on the map.

Quote
what do you mean by the 6600 target ?
It is the consumed amount at each Material wholesale for a complete year.


Offline benste

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2013, 11:43:18 AM »
Thanks, but found another might be bug :)

if you use the landscaping tool at a place in which it's not allwed - e.g. field in use it's subsctracted as a valid operation.
E.g. one of my mice tends to always double up to triple click - this will change the area once and charge 10,000 but count as 3 operations

Offline ny911

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2013, 01:11:57 PM »
if you use the landscaping tool at a place in which it's not allwed - e.g. field in use it's subsctracted as a valid operation.
E.g. one of my mice tends to always double up to triple click - this will change the area once and charge 10,000 but count as 3 operations
Found it, it's a bug! In the moment there is now scenario script method to catch this problem, so it's up to the user to take care of his landscape tool actions.

Maybe in one of the next simutrans releases we can fix the problem.

Offline benste

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2013, 04:57:34 PM »
coming up with another bug :) - (i know there is overgrowding in that map too)

for one particular city the counter for elevation changes isn't reset - see coordinates in savegame title

http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/swiss_mountains_target1_BUG203,103,5.sve

i was trying to add a slope at the point to complete the doubled track

Offline ny911

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2013, 07:52:28 PM »
coming up with another bug :)
It's great to have feedback and a bug finder.

Quote
for one particular city the counter for elevation changes isn't reset
Well, this counter isn't set, that's a correct behavior. That isn't a bug, as is written in the rules, only cities which have a growth will forget your elevation changes. The nearest city "Olten" didn't have a city growth in the last twelfth month.

But I have found an other point. For the next scenario version I will have to protect rivers to be erased. At (179,79) you cut off the "Birs" from the "Rhein".

Offline benste

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2013, 07:57:26 PM »
I'll keep playing it so far reaching the 6600 per warehouse proofs to be quite difficult i'm only catching up at around 6300 :) - with boosted passenger and electricty used ...
I'll get some passenger service running to olten ... - and trust me Bears never existed :P - placing the Basel Station at it's original SBB place prooved to be too difficult :) that's why i cut it ...



btw. currently adding passenger networks to most of the towns, wanna get some cash by flying MXP- to any city in CH



if you wanna be accurate with your map you should add the rhine "falls" which make the rhine unshipable next to schaffhausen - would force the user to either build a connected station or not beeing able to use ships from Brengenz up to Bern

e.g. 290,60,-7 - make go up one tile and flow as 3 little unshipable creeks down again

Mod note: please do not double-post. Edit your last comment instead.
~IgorEliezer

« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 09:28:59 PM by IgorEliezer »

Offline benste

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2013, 11:21:42 PM »
i guess  got something else which was part of the rules in a wrong way - I'm finally having 3 warehousees with above 6600 items delivered in your chart, but still i'm stuck at tunnel level 0 ?

Game: http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/swiss_mountainsBodensee.sve
Screenshot: http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Bildschirmfoto_vom_2013-03-25_00:16:27.png

Milan seems to be changing in between 6200 and 8000 due to delayed shipments with ships ... but how long do you need to keep 6600 items ?

PS: what are the 2 numbers in front of the items delivered ? are these the other two goods ?

Offline ny911

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2013, 01:25:05 PM »
i guess  got something else which was part of the rules in a wrong way - I'm finally having 3 warehousees with above 6600 items delivered in your chart, but still i'm stuck at tunnel level 0 ?
Well that's easy to find. Solution: Just play your savegame until March to get the first Tunnel-Level.

Quote
Milan seems to be changing in between 6200 and 8000 due to delayed shipments with ships ... but how long do you need to keep 6600 items ?
For the first tunnel level you need three warehouses having a minimum of 6600. You will have to keep it over a complete month. At the first moment of the new month you will have normally nothing sold so far in this new month, so you will need a higher consumption in the other 11 month to reach the target amount.

The List is showing the amount of consumed planks (as written above in the scenario window). Your target to receive the first tunnel level is a amount of 6600 consumed planks at the first  moment of each month in three warehouses. Please remember that the scenario window is only refreshed every 8-10 seconds.

Quote
PS: what are the 2 numbers in front of the items delivered ? are these the other two goods ?
Yes, the two other goods, as written above in the scenario window.

I'm not sure - thinking about your feedback - it may be better to show only the amount of the last 11 of 12 month instead of 12 of 12 month.

By the way: You have a lot of traffic jams on your map. This may also have effect your transportation network.

Offline benste

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2013, 08:07:44 PM »
I just encountered another bug:

load the game - rotate the map (i did it twice)
try to change the height of any tile

>> simutrans crash (out of range)

not sure if this is a simutrans or scenario bug
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/swiss_mountains_speicher?.sve

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2013, 06:25:38 AM »
>> simutrans crash (out of range)
What happens exactly? Could you post a screenshot? If simutrans crashes then this is a bug of a program, if the scripts 'crashes' then most likely it is a bug in the script.


Edit: I cannot reproduce this with a recent nightly ???
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 03:44:26 PM by Dwachs »
Parsley, sage, rosemary, and maggikraut.

Offline benste

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2013, 09:32:41 PM »
It's a pitty that this particular bug wasn't reproducable the next day.
Anyway I've got something new which seems to be problematic ...

overcrowded stations might be a bit to complicated after all - or is it a bug ?
The following realtion (connection of lines) is not loading anything in this direction:

!!! Schaffhausen Kohle (247,54) >truck> Zürich Hafen Nord >SHIP_(RHINE_coal)> Basel >TRAIN_SNCF> Besancon
- this connection is not overcrowded and completly working but not showing as connected in neither of the two industries while all stops show valid connections and plenty of storage available

The Part in between Besancon and Basel is 99% sure working as there is freight loaded in the opposite direction. check :
(Besancon coal mine >TRAIN_SNCF> Basel >SHIP_(RHINE_coal)> Freiburg im Brsg power plant) is working all the time !


Each of the stations show as connected. Problem started to occur once the following relation was added:

Pontarlier >train> Lausanne >ship> BernSäge >train> Basel >SHIP_(RHINE_coal)> zürich_N >train> Zürich Stahlwerk

if you shortcut in between Lausanne and Zürich Nord bypassing the Bern and Basel train part as well as the RHINE coal ship line it the original RHINE shipping was working again ?

Am I simply offloading the bulk goods too many times or what's going on here ?
---
have fun experimenting - be aware that I'm not to good in free cash flow at this particular step as i had some issues that as this routing suddenly broke up trains waiting in Basel crowded the station and basicly ended up in a grid-lock in the whole norther area ...
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/swiss_mountainL2_Coal_routingFails.sve

Offline ny911

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2013, 06:02:39 PM »
It's a pitty that this particular bug wasn't reproducable the next day.

But I found - using your savegame - a other problem/bug.  Rotating the map get's wrong
Links and xy coord in the scenario window. This will effect all scenarios and will need
a new function, to rotate coordinates.

Quote
Anyway I've got something new which seems to be problematic ...
overcrowded stations might be a bit to complicated after all - or is it a bug ?
Well I was able to make a direct connect, but I didn't found the reason why id didn't work using the 'Zürich Hafen'. The only thing I noticed that you use e.g. coal and passenger transport in the same line using 67% load with month wait time off. This is making the game really difficult.

Quote
Am I simply offloading the bulk goods too many times or what's going on here ?
You can offloading it 7 times. So it's all okay on this way.

Quote
have fun experimenting - be aware that I'm not to good in free cash flow at this particular step
Don't worry about the cash flow. You didn't start earning big money with transporting steel or concrete over the alps. So, as I saw it correct you will need only two more tunnel level to start the tourist service at the skiing resorts. Good work!

Offline benste

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2013, 03:05:30 PM »
could you please try using the trucks to zürich hafen the ship to Basel and the existing train ?

mixed passenger and freight connections in between Basel and Bern ...
gonna replace them once that coal thing is working again. Usually I did make the schedule to have the trains waiting for a 100% of the good which is my main reason for the transport - e.g. waiting for 100% coal (and leaving earlier if a part is already filled up by passengers)

If you'll be there as well I might consider beeing on IRC late this evening

Offline benste

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2013, 04:04:06 PM »
it's a bug - as soon as the station at 284 / 72 is overcrowded (sure if a ship is deliving 800t of iron ore)

The whole train setup next to Zürich an Winterthur stops and also stops all connected stations from working - I'll split that into two system now.. deleting the onestation solves all the coal issues, but leaves the steel mill without ore :)

Offline heyjonathan

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2015, 05:32:42 PM »
Does this scenario need any updates as a result of half-height slopes?

I think that the new slopes were introduced soon after this scenario appeared.

I'm wondering if perhaps the tunnel depth calculations are off now by a factor of 2.  Playing on 112.3 (r1234) I seem to need all 6 wholesalers supplied with planks (e.g. tunnel level 2) before I can build any tunnel.

Terra-forming also now requires more clicks - and sometimes more tiles - to establish appropriate inclines for train track.  Maybe allowing a little more terra-forming from each town might be in order?

I see where to make the changes in the .nut file, but I feel like I'd be cheating making the changes before confirming that I'm actually seeing that the scenario got harder unintentionally.

Thanks!

Jonathan








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Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2015, 08:04:51 PM »
Hi Jonathan,  I've played the scenario after half height intro, it's more difficult but I think there shouldn't be any changes to the tunnel depth or max changes calculation.

But as indicated earlier the height position of some targets need to be revised as they're now too far out of the possible range even after maximum tunnel allowance

Would be great if can look into it....  I may be able to provide you a very advanced game which would allow you to understand the problem by next week

Offline ny911

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2015, 03:45:34 PM »
Hi Jonathan,

first post, so welcome to the simutrans forum.

I think it's wasting time to find new ranges and calculation for the map.

The first step is to generate a new half hight map.
Second, to fill it up with lakes and rivers,...
...

To play the old scenario with a new ST Version it might help to change the limits like benste wrote.
But I'm not sure if it will be a great deal to play.

Offline heyjonathan

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2015, 08:24:35 PM »
Thanks for the welcome.

I looked into it some more last night.  Correcting the target station heights was very straightforward, and along the way I think I found an easy fix to the tunnel issue as well.

I'm going to give this new version a try, and if it works like I expect, I'll post it here.

nyc911, I agree with you that it makes sense to recreate a new half-height map.  That'll be a significant bit of work, but also not particularly difficult.  I get easily distracted and wander form one project to another with many things incomplete, but I'll add this to my list of things to try someday.

Thanks.

Jonathan

Offline benste

Re: Swiss mountains - scenario - pak128
« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2015, 08:07:44 AM »
I aggree that it would be best if the map could be modified. Though i didnt see a need to create a completly new half height version as the old one scaled quite ok automatically, [size=78%]besides the  important issues with the lakes ... i did this during the game but i guess i did too many mondifications to the landscape for my routes so using the savegame wount help or ?[/size]


The scenario was certanly playable, my only issue is with the Zurich to Geneva Steel delivery i usually exceed the number of max. goods in transit and hence production comes to a hold until a few trains deliver ... feel free to explore and continue the attached savegame.


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105616137/swiss_mountains_SoftSlope5.sve