Author Topic: New York City - pak128  (Read 30481 times)

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Offline ny911

New York City - pak128
« on: November 23, 2009, 06:24:03 PM »
savegame for Simutrans 102.2.1 2859, pak128 1.4.5-102

Introduction

We are writing the year 1960 and the mayor of the City New York has a great vision, a city
with a useful public transport system. So he starts to collect money from all towns in the
area, including Jersey too. After a time the bank account shows 2.000.000 for his great vision.

Now he is looking up for a skilled manager of the new public transport company. Quit difficult,
because nearly everyone is asking him a lot of questions. The mayor decided to creat a list of facts:

start year1960
money 2.000.000
map-size 1024*1024
inhabitants 2.200.000
cities~80
factories~70
public airports  5
public markers a lot

And the visionary mayor did also make an very short list of the rules from the city council decisions :

  • no more bridge or tunnel of any kind over the Hudson River
  • you are free to build any bridge or tunnel over the east river
  • all city must have the "Allow city growth" on
  • city building demolition is expensive (*5 as normal)
  • no more factories in future  (set under "settings"/"industry_increase_every = 0")
  • you are allowed to support industry goods too,  necessary are only workers at the factories
  • build your big company headquarter (HQ) on  "Governors Island", attention HQ's are very expensive
  • try to reach for minimum one full year in Midtown  (city statistic) a rate of service:
      Delivered / Passengers = greater 0.95  (that's 95%)
  • support the airports, also the NonUS-airport
  • mail support would be great, but isn't necessary
If this challenge is yours, start being the manager of a great public transport system in New York City.




savegame: http://ul.to/urrxp7

(edit: savegame is now exactly starting 1960/jan/01 )
(note: first version of scenario is placed in pak128 scenario folder)
(UPDATE 2013/01/26: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=3812.msg111322#msg111322)

notes:
I tried to make a realistic map of the NYC area. In just a view points I changed it. The local Towns are more or less at the right place. I ad more/bigger rivers. The buildings in Manhattan are partly to small, but otherwise it would be to much population. For a lot of sightseeing points (Statue of Liberty, WTC, UN-Building, Empire State, Times Square, ...) are only normal attractions form the pak128 used. At the airports there are a lot of attraction to get a bit of passenger traffic.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 11:19:07 AM by ny911 »

Offline Anime

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2009, 06:35:26 PM »
Nice! Finally an interesting challenge. I'll have a look at it immediatly :p

Edit :
It's a bit too big lol. It's hard to start anywhere on the map, have you already started the challenge?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 07:03:43 PM by Anime »

Offline ny911

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2009, 07:24:37 PM »
Yes, I played it one time to find the things which need to be corrected.
I started at Downtown, D.-Brooklyn, Greenwich bringing people to the factories.

Offline Anime

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2009, 07:30:19 PM »
can you post your save? How did you do all the stops? and which vehicles do you use?

Offline ny911

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2009, 07:54:58 PM »
my game will folllow later. Yes, to make the stops takes a long time (weeks).
The question after the vehicles is difficult. I take all kind, train, tram, bus, ship.
For Manhattan I use a lot (about 10) subway trains in a multi-level-underground.
Main Trains: RVg Hiawatha Express (to earn money) and SHI D-231 "Shy" for mass transport
Main Bus: mostly the newest one
Main Tram: Due WAG GT6

Offline Anime

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2009, 06:33:01 AM »
can you post your save, so that we can see how it may look..?

Offline AP

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2009, 04:12:29 PM »
Have to say, that's quite a map!

Just to clarify, before I give it too much thought, the "aims" are

  • Reach a passenger delivery ratio of 0.95 (95%) in Midtown
  • build a BIG company HQ on Governor's Island
  • schedule fights to each of the to the 5x airports on the map

Offline ny911

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2009, 11:59:36 PM »
Just to clarify, before I give it too much thought, the "aims" are

  • Reach a passenger delivery ratio of 0.95 (95%) in Midtown
  • build a BIG company HQ on Governor's Island
  • schedule fights to each of the to the 5x airports on the map

Yes! The flights might be also necessary for the passenger delivery ratio of 95%.

can you post your save, so that we can see how it may look..?

Yes, when I manged all "aims". But here es a small preview.

I'm still trying to find a way to decrease the waiting passenger at the factory
in Greenwich and Lower East Side. And the "Washington Bridge" is a big bottleneck.

Offline Anime

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2009, 06:41:32 AM »
looks nice Ny911 :)

Offline ny911

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2009, 06:22:22 PM »
Here it is! A savegame (pak128, 102.2.1) with a nearly full public transportation system in NYC area.
Nearly 4000 vehicle, around 280 lines (express trains, subway, ferries, air, bus). I reached the 95%
in 1975/Jan. In Manhattan are partly more than five underground levels used. The Mail-Service is
still in process.

savegame : http://ul.to/ne9ie7 ( new_york_city_1_v15.sve  12.3 MB)

Offline Anime

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2009, 06:45:16 PM »
Nice :p I'd love to start your challenge too, but I don't have enought time to :(

Offline Dwachs

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Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2009, 10:32:01 AM »
Really nice challenge!

Two questions:
  • Is it allowed to build more airports? Like in Central Park for example..
  • Is it allowed to fuill up the Hudson river? then one can cross it without bridges ;)
I suppose the answer is 'No' to both questions, but I had to ask.
Parsley, sage, rosemary, and maggikraut.

Offline Spike

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Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2009, 10:43:16 AM »
The central park airport itself must be underground, and starting and landing must be done through tunnels ;)

I bet someone will file that as change request soon ;D

Offline ny911

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2009, 11:42:09 AM »
  • Is it allowed to build more airports? Like in Central Park for example..
Well, we have no "city council decisions" which prohibit this. But I think it's
very unrealistic. And you will have big problems to carry all the people in the
60' with the small airplanes.


  • Is it allowed to fuill up the Hudson river? then one can cross it without bridges ;)
;) Why not "Lower Bay" and "Upper Bay" too!
Answer : No

Offline eddielexx

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2010, 07:58:50 PM »
I'd like to know if I can edit this svegame, cuz I'd like to be able to allow new industries to form. And btw, is there any posibility for this map to be totally covered with cities, like real NYC?

Offline ny911

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2010, 10:14:56 PM »
I'd like to know if I can edit this svegame, cuz I'd like to be able to allow new industries to form.

Yes, look to your email box.

And btw, is there any possibility for this map to be totally covered with cities, like real NYC?

Well, I tried it. I wasn't able to fix the problem with too much inhabitants.
If the cities outside Manhattan getting bigger (with small buildings only) , it's still to much.

Offline eddielexx

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2010, 01:56:00 PM »
U r the lord!!!!!
Thanky from my heart :D

I will post my savegame next week, I have exams this eek, so I am only playin for hour or two. I am concentrated on Industries now, so it is not very interesting in the beginnin, and when I develop industries, I will start makin passengers lines. OOO it is gonna be exciting :D THKU

And BTW, Simutrans has Population limit??

Online prissi

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Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2010, 10:25:55 PM »
Technically yes, as some counters on the display will choke on on 2^31-1. But since this means more than level 100 on every tile of a 2096x4096 map, I am sure the routing of those masses will make the game unplayable much earlier.

Offline ny911

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2010, 02:59:12 PM »
I am sure the routing of those masses will make the game unplayable much earlier.

Yes, on the NYC-Map it's for me between 2^21 to 2^22 (depending on the PC) !!

In my opinion it would be great to have the opportunity to make different kind of cities
with the "found a new city" tool. So it may be more realistic in a view areas.
e.g.

  • very sparsely populated
  • sparsely populated
  • normal city
  • densely populated
  • very densely populated



Offline eddielexx

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2010, 07:24:19 PM »
Hey People !
I played this map, connecting Freight.
I have a problem, all my factories work on full power, and I simply can't build enough ships for hauling all those stuff, I have 10kt of steel in every single Dock that needs it :( How to get rid of it somehow? I have 19M debt and 1.5M of profit.... I simply can't stop building ships :D It is madness!!! I hope that one day I will see black numbers on my account balance place :D
I'm just afraid of bankruptcy. And yeah, I decided to start building public transport when I get in positive :D But it seems that my passenger will waiiit for long. If someone wants to fight with my debt, I can upload my savegame :D

jklamo

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Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2010, 12:32:00 AM »
Great scenario. And very long. I suppose to complete it sometime in 2013 (real year, not game year) :-) Now i am in gameyear 1977, have 560 vehicles, fair profit and 25% of the goal..

Offline asaphxiix

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2010, 09:52:23 AM »
amazing. your fulfilled version of the scenario (15) is by far the coolest i've seen of this game so far (narrowly beats some guy's sve of the world airports)

Offline Combuijs

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Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2010, 01:01:18 PM »
The heightmap of this game is now available on Simutrans Maps under the name of New York City.
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Offline Gilles

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2011, 03:34:27 PM »
Excuse me, but... does anyone still have the "blank" savegame?

Offline ny911

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2011, 05:28:22 PM »
Excuse me, but... does anyone still have the "blank" savegame?
"blank" savegame ?

  • savegame like in the first Post (start year 1960),
    that's a "blank" savegame for me
  • clean map like it is on Simutrans Maps
    http://maps.simutrans.com

Offline Gilles

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2011, 07:41:21 AM »

  • savegame like in the first Post (start year 1960),
    that's a "blank" savegame for me

That one. The link was broken for me yesterday. Sorry. ;) Thanks anyway.

Offline ny911

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2013, 11:38:38 AM »
first update of New York city scenario:

for nightly r6232 and pak128 2.2.0
script is only in english (beta version)

Link: New York City Scenario V 0.3 (zip 4.43 MB, download until 06. Apr 2013)
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/new_york_city_beta_v03.zip

It's a beta version scenario and it has 12 new extra stuff options/goals.
pleasce post your experiences, that I can improve scenario and find bugs.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2013, 12:26:44 PM »
 :thumbsup: superb progress!
Parsley, sage, rosemary, and maggikraut.

eXtremeCZ

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Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2013, 09:46:18 PM »
Amazing scenario, thank you :)
There's one thing that's annoying to me - station coverage 2. I have to build sooo many stops very close to each other. I enjoy connecting cities (disctricts), but not making so many stops in almost every street. But it's probably realistic, isn't it? :)

Offline dennosius

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2013, 11:51:43 PM »
It is a bit annoying. I switched to using underground (light) trains extensively for urban transportation. Usually in circular lines with station length 2, so it's 6x6 tiles covered by a station and less need to worry how the street above is.

Offline Fifty

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2013, 03:07:44 AM »
You can change station coverage on existing maps through the secret settings dialog:

Just open menuconf.tab, located in pakxyz/config, change
Code: [Select]
#dialog_tool[27]= to some unused keyboard shortcut, for example "~" and remove the #
Code: [Select]
dialog_tool[27]=,~
Then open the game, press ~ (or whatever button you chose)

Once you have opened this dialogue in the game you want to change station coverage in, just switch to the routing tab, change "station_coverage" to whatever value you desire. Then close the dialog, save the game, and reload. Voila!
Why do we park on the driveway and drive on the parkway?

Offline ny911

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2013, 11:16:30 AM »
Next Update:

New York City Scenario version 0.5 beta for nightly r6288 and pak128 2.2.0 r1140
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/new_york_city_beta_v05.zip (4,43 MB until 2013-07-04)

savegames from version 0.3  can be used (please give me feedback if there are problems).

New:
    more bonus stuff targets
    messages for player
    helptext with links
    and a lot more small things ....

still known problem: The "Airport-Tools" can't be enabled. Please delete script Line 497 completely.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 04:38:11 PM by ny911 »

Offline ny911

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2013, 11:34:44 AM »
Quote
change station coverage
good to know, so I will have to change the script code watching the coverage, e.g. if coverage > 2 then pax target  > 98% or so. But I'm not sure if it's possible in the moment to catch the station coverage in the scenario scripting.

Quote
I have to build so many stops very close to each other.
first the work, then the fun of a great network! To have a some breaks in placing all the stops you can use the bonus stuff to have variety in your work.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2013, 04:44:25 PM »
Changing station coverage by script will not be possible, I am afraid. It has the potential to break a lot of things.
Parsley, sage, rosemary, and maggikraut.

Offline sdog

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2013, 07:19:49 PM »
@ny911 would you mind to post a screenshot in this part of the thread? (Helps to post about it in social media).

Offline ny911

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2013, 02:06:46 PM »
here are five screenshots (links for normal picture size):

Offline sdog

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2013, 04:07:42 AM »
thanks a lot.
sorry for the long delay though.

Offline asaphxiix

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2013, 03:02:05 PM »
nice! I guess you haven't gotten around to do the other 4 boroughs... and jersey :)

Offline Junna

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2013, 12:07:44 AM »
No matter what scenario I chose, this and others, it says "loading scenario script failed." Latest nightly pak128 and exe.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2013, 08:25:04 AM »
Please try to download the 'complete' nightly-package (the one that includes translations and also some script files).
Parsley, sage, rosemary, and maggikraut.

Offline ny911

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2013, 04:31:31 PM »
Dwachs agreement provided, this scenario (version 0.5) can also be included in pak128 to replace the old one.

Note: please change the name in pak128 from "New York" to "New York City"  (One is a state, the other a city)
I'm looking forward to provide also the old scenario scripts at the scenarios.simutrans.com (still in development).

The next update of this scenario will get a choice option to reduce target level and/or the extra stuff in the scenario. But this will take time.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2013, 05:10:32 PM »
Sure this should be added to the repository. But still there is the old NY scenario around. How does your extended script works on the old scenario?

Maybe we could make two scenarios: a simple one  - just the passenger goal. And the complex one - with all the bonus stuff. Both could/should be based on the same savegame.

If the script gots added to an official repository, one also has to struggle with savegame compatibility: new versions of script have to be able to load savegames saved with older scripts.
Parsley, sage, rosemary, and maggikraut.

Offline ny911

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2013, 06:04:22 PM »
Quote
How does your extended script works on the old scenario?
Works with all versions from 0.2 on. The version 0.1 did have a few errors in the map (missing industries and specially wrong bridge foundations prevent any bridge building in Downtown) so there is a big difference.

Quote
new versions of script have to be able to load savegames saved with older scripts
Well I'm more ore less sure it will load, but only load.  :-[

Quote
Maybe we could make two scenarios: a simple one  - just the passenger goal. And the complex one - with all the bonus stuff. Both could/should be based on the same savegame.

That's what I liked to do for the next version. Depending on the available tools it's like the choose option in the swiss one or with a new users_select_function.

When I think about it: Let's wait to add/replace it to the repository. So I can take care about the compatibility, inside scenario switch (simple/complex) and more language support.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2013, 07:08:00 PM »
Could we include your new map to be used by the old script?
Parsley, sage, rosemary, and maggikraut.

Offline ny911

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2013, 08:34:49 PM »
Could we include your new map to be used by the old script?
Yes, it works. But it takes the JFK parking area instead of the airport (both is a legal halt_x()  )

You have to insert in the update function the new place:
Code: [Select]
   airports.jfk = { pos = [966, 494] }

Offline Dwachs

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Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #45 on: March 16, 2013, 01:37:02 PM »
I updated the scenario in the pak128-repository: change the savegame and adjusted the script.
Parsley, sage, rosemary, and maggikraut.

Offline benste

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2014, 07:54:14 PM »
Hi Ny911,


i recently opened the scenario in the most recent dev version of Simutrans and it got a whole lot harder. So far I would have the following recommodations for you:




Gameplay:
* Softslopes are introduced which allow trains only go up 1 tile within two tiles length. Existing Roads, bridges look very weird, but even worse to create a slope to get up one tile you now need at least three soil moving operations. This is not only getting more expensive but making the swiss scenario with it's per year restrictions for landscaping changes per city very hard. I'd recommend multiplying the existing limit with 2 or 3 to make it a bit easier.


Grafical:


* All lakes need to be converted from canal style to real water - new canals will make them look like a chessboard with small islands in between
* A lot of work : - all bridges, cities with slopes ... need to be "redevelloped" in terms of existing transport infrastructure.


I'm sorry to say but even though i like the way the new system works it's requiring a lot of conversion work for the old scenarios.

Offline laos

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #47 on: October 26, 2014, 02:50:38 PM »
Fantastic scenario - thanks for making it. As a native New Yorker i'm impressed by how beautifully detailed Manhattan Island is. Map is very difficult though as of Simutrans r7175 and nothing seems easily profitable.


Any word on a simutrans-experimental build? That, or a Pak128.Britain compatible build so that I can at least run the save on experimental? It does boot though a long list of industries are lost in the process.

Offline ny911

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #48 on: October 26, 2014, 03:23:20 PM »
@laos : welcome to the forum

Thanks, yes it's difficult, but it is possible to win the scenario.

For any other pakset the complete map with all buildings, roads, tunnels, ... and the setup of the third player needs to be rebuild. Even if there is only a difference on the industry chain or a difference in the maximum of city buildings generated traffic it would not run perfect, if it runs.


Offline laos

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2014, 04:06:37 PM »
Ah I see. I figured that the paks were bound much more tightly than I thought with these scenarios. Thank you for the clarification in any case.

For now I'll have to figure out how to achieve profitability :)

Is it best to wait before building subways? I start right away with subways  supported by buses and it seems to quickly run into debt over maintenance costs.

Offline ny911

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2014, 04:25:17 PM »
Well there are a lot of way to earn money:
  • make two/three bus-lines in town which are fare away, connect them with a surface train/subway
  • start with goods, where it is possible to transport in both ways
  • connect factory's/shops in downtown to city's around, make money with ferry's
  • later using airplanes to nonUS airport if you have partly covert Manhattan
For my own, I start in downtown with ferry's and build up a long speed train line to somewhere suburban. Later I build up a bus and tram network in Midtown to start my first subway to the downtown area. And don't even think to drop a station at a Manhattan factory/attraction, your network will collapse later.
In the most cases of this scenario you will need to have very profitable train- & ferry-lines to pay your bus-lines and the subway maintenance.

Offline laos

Re: New York City - pak128
« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2014, 04:29:54 PM »
Well there are a lot of way to earn money:
  • make two/three bus-lines in town which are fare away, connect them with a surface train/subway
  • start with goods, where it is possible to transport in both ways
  • connect factory's/shops in downtown to city's around, make money with ferry's
  • later using airplanes to nonUS airport if you have partly covert Manhattan
For my own, I start in downtown with ferry's and build up a long speed train line to somewhere suburban. Later I build up a bus and tram network in Midtown to start my first subway to the downtown area. And don't even think to drop a station at a Manhattan factory/attraction, your network will collapse later.
In the most cases of this scenario you will need to have very profitable train- & ferry-lines to pay your bus-lines and the subway maintenance.

Thanks for the tips! I'll experiment with them and see where I can get.