Author Topic: Using the Pak128Britian Demo Game  (Read 10076 times)

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Offline Severous

Using the Pak128Britian Demo Game
« on: October 30, 2011, 01:36:02 PM »
Hi everyone,

When you load up PakBritian a green commuter train comes into a station. That background is a fully playable and very atmospheric save that showcases PakBritian.  I have seen nothing as realistic as this before. I think its amazing. That is the map we play on here.

This screenshot is about one third of the map.  The green train we see in the loading screen of PakBritian is down in the city in the bottom right corner of the screen/map.
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/simscr34.png

Here is the save game at the start:
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Demo_PakBritian_Save_at_Start.sve
Edit: 12Nov: Updated version:(compatible with old Version v110 and also the just updated New version v111)
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Demo_PakBritian_plus_changes_old_version.sve

There are fast expresses, slow mixed freights, bulk trains, local trains, commuters, shunters. Fishing boats, canal barges, lorries, buses and a tram. We can control all that happens via a human player, 4 other transport companies, and public service.

The rules I play by preserve the game in its existing state:

Game outline:
- Assume the role of Group Chief Operating Officer (COO) of all transport companies+human player
    • You control all transport
    • Can alter all routes and lines provided no existing valid transport service is completely withdrawn.
    • Freely swap between the human player and four other transport companies and public service.
    • You must not buy or sell anything. No stations, stops, vehicles, roads, rails. Nothing - you operate what is there.
    • Each week (real life week) we spend up to 5,000 of public service funds on new/amending/destroying.
    • We switch to public service and all spend the 5,000 on maps as agreed here on the forum. (e.g.additional station, industry contract etc)
    • Edit: from 13Nov: We can also agree to sell vehicles and use funds to buy replacements up to value of £7500 per week

    Free for anyone to take part in the game, spend what we did, and compare and share their results (no time limit).

    Edit 31Oct: I have started. The ban on spending sharpens the mind and care.  Ive got a long list of things I want to do and the more I play the longer the list gets. As I am playing alone at the moment I consider I can spend £5,000 this week.  What remains of that £5000 will be shared if others join.

    £400 Spent. Adding a loading bay to Bridge Street which is currently a passenger only tram stop.
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/BridgeSt_Post.PNG

    £30 Spent. Road repair at Marygreen.
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Road_Repairs.PNG

    There are many incomplete industry chains in the Demo. New contracts allowed. 'Price' of adding new industry contracts.
    -Price will be the production maximum of the two industries plus £1000 lawyers fees for the contract.
    -The cost of new link will come out of the £5,000 weekly spending allowance.
    -For example the Car Factory contract with Car Dealership. Car Factory 536pm, Car Dealership 160pm, Contract £1000 = £1,696 to connect.
    « Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 08:51:20 AM by Severous »
    Regards
    Sev.

    Offline Optimix

    Re: Idea for a Forum Game - Pak128Britian Demo Game
    « Reply #1 on: November 01, 2011, 05:43:14 PM »
    I am playing Simutrans for a very long time, but I had never seen
    the Britain pak. It is beautiful!!

    When I follow a train, then I see that if a signal is red, the train is
    watching that about 2 or 3 tiles before it reaches the signal, and
    reduce speed. That gives a very naturel simulation.

    Is it right that the normal paks dont do that and that a train always
    changes from full speed to zero-speed at a signal in a split second?
    So not slowly reducing? Or is that imagination?

    Perhaps I am going to join this challenge; only thing is a little difficult,
    that all the symbols for building tracks, staions and so on, are completely
    different, compared with the "normal" paks.


    Offline Sybill

    Re: Idea for a Forum Game - Pak128Britian Demo Game
    « Reply #2 on: November 02, 2011, 05:36:01 PM »
    I had a look at this save and I have to say I have some problems with it. Because I'm not very familiar with pak.britain, the first time I just watched it and tried to figure out what's going on there. After the first month the player Napik was deleted because of bankruptcy!

    I started this new, switching off the bankruptcy button in the player list.
    Player Napik is already bankrupt, player Trikky Transport will be in short time, because his ore and coal trains are unable to make any profit, even if they are fully loaded. And there is no wool produced at the current time.
    The green player has some trucks going in the southern city I have no clue about what they're supposed to transport.
    The only trains bringing the goods to the shops in the southern city seems to be the Meyer trains and they are travelling a long time to cross the map.
    There is also a train in Casterbridge Exchagne(sic!) station that goes to two underground dead ends without stations.

    So I'm not sure what to do now. I would rather sell something than buy anything. If there was something to buy it has to be for the yellow player first, some vehicles that can make some profit for example.

    I just downloaded the new version of simutrans 111 and the new pak.britain, and it doesn't have the savegame when starting.

    Offline Severous

    Re: Idea for a Forum Game - Pak128Britian Demo Game
    « Reply #3 on: November 02, 2011, 08:26:23 PM »
    Hello Gents.

    Thanks for you interest in this.  

    £1,860 New industry contract. Furniture Factory to Department Store.
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/New_Industry_link.PNG
    The reason I did this was provide piece goods for the freight trains, and restart the demand for planks transport.

    Now 'spent' £2,290 of this weeks £5,000 budget. £2,710 remains.

    I will not spend any more in case you participate. If you do then you can do what I have done (exact same £2,290 on same changes) and post here how to spend another £1,000. Between the three of us that's up to £4,290 and we agree by Sunday how to spend remaining £710). If you don't participate I will continue to spend up to total £5, 000 of public service funds as outlined above.

    ok..your comments:
    Optimix:
    - Yes I think this demo is good looking. The best I have ever seen.  The transport has been set up to look good as it is a demo game. It isn't that efficient which is why I am enjoying the challenge of making money without changing much.
    - The deceleration does look good. I dont recall seeing that 2 years ago when I last played.  
    - I thought I saw similar deceleration in other pak sets recently - all downloaded about a month ago. My guess is its a Simutrans version thing rather than pak specific.

    Sybill:
    - It does take a while to understand what is going on. Where the routes are broken, the over supply, incomplete chains, bad schedules, too many or not enough vehicles.
    - I have not allowed the game to run. I paused it and examined everything. Then did lots of schedule changes without advancing the game more than a few seconds.
    - I have avoided bankruptcy at the end of month one. Some vehicles like a Commuter train are in a depot (unsold).
    - Coal and ore trains remain unprofitable and I spent hours trying to work out how to signal those routes to make trains run better. I gave up and found a new use for many of the bulk trains.
    - Green trucks have not moved anything for me yet but fish and piece goods are on the way. Meanwhile they wait to load 100% and incur no costs whilst stationary.
    - That train at Casterbridge is eye candy. Looks nice if you see if moving. Big loss as its an expensive fast express train. I think I can make huge profits from operating it properly.

    Are you able to confirm the new version of PakBritian and Simutrans111 will run the save game? [Edit - yes it will work]


    Edit: Update Thur 3rd November
    Played about one game month now.
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/simscr01.png

    Two freight trains just get out of the way of an express passenger train.  Passengers have a connection waiting with a commuter train waiting. Only 1x2car unit of EMU is in service, the other units are in the depot.  That's where the express will go after dropping off the passengers - its going to go out of service for a while as there is not enough passenger supply to keep all the trains running full.

    The main line north from here is now busy with bulk freight.  The coal line set up in the demo looks nice but was a massive loss maker.  Now most bulk trains are moving coal up and down the main line. In shot the first delivery to the coal Merchant is about to be made.

    No money spent. I will wait to see if anyone else wants to nominate infrastructure improvements or new industry contracts. If nothing is said by Saturday morning I will do something - probably car industry contract.  Cheers Sev.
    « Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 05:40:50 PM by Severous »
    Regards
    Sev.

    Offline Sybill

    Re: Idea for a Forum Game - Pak128Britian Demo Game
    « Reply #4 on: November 04, 2011, 08:47:21 PM »
    I started this now in the way you suggested, altering some lines, sending some trains in depots etc., and I managed to make a little profit with one of the coal trains - but not enough to compensate for the losses of the others.
    There is a lot of industry in this map without contracts, the food chain is not used at all.
    I'm not the great analyzer, so I will not manage this as good as you do, but I will give it a go.

    One thing I'd like to alter: I would like to extend one of the platforms of Castlebridge West Yard, so the ultra quick train can stop there, that needs 8 tiles:
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Castlebridge.png

     I added your new contract to the map and I'm using the new version 111. I made also the street repair to Overcomb but I couldn't see where you placed the loading bay, can you post another screen shot please?
    « Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 09:20:44 PM by Sybill »

    Offline Severous

    Re: Idea for a Forum Game - Pak128Britian Demo Game
    « Reply #5 on: November 04, 2011, 09:51:26 PM »
    Hi Sybill.  

    I am really pleased you are having a go, and with version 111. I look forward to seeing what you suggest over the coming days.  

    I am kind of hoping that our played version of the demo, with operational improvments might become the new version used in the pak set. But thats for the future and not vital.

    Here in my game the two freight trains owned by Meyer Moving Co pass each other as they non stop past the Car plant.  
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/simscr02.png
    The stop is in their stopping schedule but I told them to skip it on this run. Theres nothing they can pick up and nothing they carry needs dropping off at this time.   I am hoping that we link the Car plant to the Car Dealership (Cost 160+536+1000) so that steel can once again be demanded, and cars can be transported on these trains two unused car transport wagons.  The trains will then stop on the northbound run (in the siding).

    The Bridge Street loading bay is right next to existing passenger stop. Map coordinates 503,18,1. You will see the station catchment area just cover all the tiles of the big greenhouse.   One thing we will find is the postman wont be able to keep up - especially with the huge mail output from the nearby Large Football Ground. (1200 Mail !).

    £600 cost for the platform extension. Thank you for the improvement. Ive added it also. Total now spent £2,890. Curious. I will think now about what you are doing. I has not occurred to me to send the passenger express into the freight station.

    We could spend £2,110 Saturday. Car contract (£1,696) plus a £400 loading bay somewhere perhaps?  Or maybe Optimix has got ideas and joins in.

    New weekly budget of £5,000 commences from Sunday.

    Edit 11:12pm 4Nov:
    Passing express trains.
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/simscr03.png
    The 'King' is the super fast train you mentioned Sybill. I might send it into the freight yard if mail volumes rise but otherwise will keep it on the main line. It wouldn't feel right such a posh express in with the freight!  On the main line the 'King' accelerates very quickly and is the most profitable vehicle by far.  Here it is slowed by a steel freight running ahead of it.
    The small and cheaper green express locomotives have been given a similar consist (because one train is in the depot I redeployed coaches onto the remaining expresses). But it struggles. The load is a bit too heavy for the light engine. Acceleration is slow.

    Edit 00:26 5 Nov:
    Express overtakes TWO freights.
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Express_overtakes_two_trains.png
    The 'b' button will show the rails reserved by each train. You can see the green express has managed to secure the main line beyond the  far end of the overtaking siding. The signals are very well placed and the expresses benefit on each trip by overtaking the slower freight trains in the various sidings like this.  This was the first time I saw two moving freight trains get overtaken in one siding.
    « Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 08:53:19 AM by Severous »
    Regards
    Sev.

    Offline sdog

    Re: Idea for a Forum Game - Pak128Britian Demo Game
    « Reply #6 on: November 05, 2011, 05:30:01 AM »
    i think this demo.sve has been created by AP.

    Offline Severous

    Re: Idea for a Forum Game - Pak128Britian Demo Game
    « Reply #7 on: November 05, 2011, 11:05:41 AM »
    Hello sdog.  I do not know AP, but I did see that this demo was made in a competition and there is a thread somewhere about it.

    Sybill: I vote we spend our remaining budget as follows:
    £1,696 Car factory contract with Car Dealership. This completes the chain and we have transport on all parts of it.
    £   400 Loading bay at Toll Bridge Lane 418,4,2. Mail. [Edit 6Nov: - Coordinates were wrong. Should be: 441,16,1]
    £    14  lets go down the pub!
    Let me know if you agree or have alternative ideas. If I dont hear from you or anyone else in 12 hours of this post I will go ahead.
    « Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 09:26:43 AM by Severous »
    Regards
    Sev.

    Offline Sybill

    Re: Idea for a Forum Game - Pak128Britian Demo Game
    « Reply #8 on: November 05, 2011, 02:46:05 PM »
    I agree with the car contract, but I don't understand the Loading Bay, 418,4.2 is a loading platform in Marygreen.

    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Marygreen.png

    I totally agree with the pub  ;D

    I found the thread about the creation of the demo file, it's here:

    http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=4372.0

    I don't think I'm very good in this, but it's interesting and I learned a lot about pak.britain so far. I still don't know how to get the Trikky player in a healthy condition, the others are ok now and making profit.

    Offline Severous

    Re: Idea for a Forum Game - Pak128Britian Demo Game
    « Reply #9 on: November 05, 2011, 03:01:56 PM »
    Hi Sybill,

    OK. Lets both 'Spend' £1,696 on the contract to supply Cars.

    I made a mistake with the coordinates.  I should have suggested 441,16,1 Toll Bridge Lane. Maybe I had centered the screen on 441,16,1 then moved the cursor to the top of that screen and wrote down those coordinates instead by mistake. Sorry.. or maybe I had been down the pub already :-)

    Do you have any ideas for the remaining £400? We could do the loading bay at 441,16,1 or something else. Or save it until tomorrow and add it to the new £5,000 weekly budget.

    Edit: It is now July in my effort.  
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/July_0015.PNG
    Trikky is profitable overall and the net income of each vehicle is shown here over the past three months.  But the Iron ore route is loss making. Just one train now works that route and is loosing money. Five trains work one coal route that looks after the three different coal demands.  
    Meanwhile on the Bere Valley branch line (shown) 1 Tank engine runs a mixed service which is barely profitable.  More profits if Melchester North was expanded with a freight platform to collect wool from the unconnected sheep farm - but it wont be much as monthly output is just 4!  The second tank engine that started on Bere Valley now operates on the main line where it looks like a toy compared to the big freight and express trains that it shares the line with.
    « Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 03:42:29 PM by Severous »
    Regards
    Sev.

    Offline Sybill

    Re: Idea for a Forum Game - Pak128Britian Demo Game
    « Reply #10 on: November 05, 2011, 04:00:53 PM »
    I made the changes now:

    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/new_changes.jpg

    and I suggest an additional mail loading bay at 499,4, that's Christminster North station, and far enough from the cargo stop to let trucks waiting there without disturbing the post vehicle.

    Offline Severous

    Re: Idea for a Forum Game - Pak128Britian Demo Game
    « Reply #11 on: November 05, 2011, 04:37:06 PM »
    Ok. I have now also added 441,16,1.  It wont add a lot of mail but the mail van has the capacity to carry it all.

    Ive considered 499,5,1 for the same reasons as you suggest 499,4,1.  499,5,1 has a bigger station catchment area and more room for waiting lorries. I had not suggested it because the mail van cannot move all the mail it already has so doesn't need more mail. The goods lorries do not need to wait if you give them routing that takes them all over the city before they deliver the goods.

    We have spent our budget for this week. Tomorrow is a new week, we have another £5000.  If you still want 499,4,1 (or 499,5,1) we will do it tomorrow?  I have not thought much yet about another contract, or a big spend.  Do you have anything in mind for tomorrow?
    Regards
    Sev.

    Offline Sybill

    Re: Idea for a Forum Game - Pak128Britian Demo Game
    « Reply #12 on: November 05, 2011, 04:52:45 PM »
    499,5 is ok for me, that's the tile under the bridge, I will add it. I'm not at home tomorrow so I don't have any plans, but there is a lot of industry that isn't connected yet, for example the department store at King's Road Underground (184,10). In my game time I'm at the end of July now - I should use the pause button more, I think.

    Offline Severous

    Re: Idea for a Forum Game - Pak128Britian Demo Game
    « Reply #13 on: November 05, 2011, 06:00:13 PM »
    499,5 is part of next weeks budget £400. I will add it tomorrow.

    I see these opportunities:
    -Coal Merchant next to the Car plant. That needs a contract but Trikky transport could serve that well.
    -Wood Chips from forest to Paper Mills. Needs careful thought for cheapest option. Trikky has the bulk wagons.
    -Melchester North expansion. Wool for the textile mills. Trikky again.
    -Contracts with farms and grocers. Low production keeps contract 'cost' down. Trikky yet again.

    I have a party now so wont be around for some hours.  If you want to propose up to £2100 worth of spend, and I propose £2500 tomorrow - we will have a plan together for next weeks budget of £5000.  Perhaps we should think about it and do our investments on Monday?
    Regards
    Sev.

    Offline Sybill

    Re: Idea for a Forum Game - Pak128Britian Demo Game
    « Reply #14 on: November 05, 2011, 07:08:47 PM »
    I like your ideas to support Trikky. I've seen, that you're changing the carriages between trains, I haven't thought about this yet.

    Offline sdog

    Re: Idea for a Forum Game - Pak128Britian Demo Game
    « Reply #15 on: November 06, 2011, 02:03:52 AM »
    Sybill, thanks for the link to the old demo.sve thread. I looked for it yesterday and couldn't find it. I've posted the link to this thread there, it's interessting what you're doing and i like to let those who monitor the pak thread only know.

    Offline Severous

    Re: Forum Game - Using the Pak128Britian Demo (open to all to join in)
    « Reply #16 on: November 06, 2011, 09:50:52 AM »
    Hi.

    If you wanted to try/join or just take a look. Here is the save game we started with:
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Demo_PakBritian_Save_at_Start.sve

    Alternations made via Public Service so far:
    £30 Road repair 422,17,2
    £400 Loading Bay 503,18,1
    £1860 Industry contract: Furniture 141,9 to Department store 493,23
    £600 Additional freight platform 149,18,3
    £1696 Industry contract: Car Plant 315,20 to Car Dealership 494,10
    £400 Loading Bay 441,16,1

    Second week of play:
    £400 Loading Bay 499,5,1

    Edit: I've already got the public service player to spend my allowance for the week.
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Trikky_moves_woodchips.PNG
    Place the two freight rail platforms first (£600x2) then the passenger/post country station £1000.  It will just cover the Forest.  The woodchips are a bulk freight which Trikky's passing Iron and coal trains will carry all over the map before delivery to the nearby paper mills.  Should work wonders for Trikky's finances.  It will be nice to see the various paper chains come to life.

    £2200 spent.

    I did notice that the station built on a wooded slope cost exactly the £1000 list price.  It didn't cost any extra to level the ground nor to cut down the trees.

    Over to you Sybill.
    « Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 02:53:03 PM by Severous »
    Regards
    Sev.

    Offline Sybill

    Re: Forum Game - Using the Pak128Britian Demo (open to all to join in)
    « Reply #17 on: November 06, 2011, 09:53:42 PM »
    I just added the new station and it is really a nice one, Trikkys ore trains make a slight profit now and my remaining coal train on the line only a very slight loss. The printing chain is working and  gives additional profit for Napiks train.

    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Casterbridge_Printworks.png

    I experimented with carriage changes between trains and encountered a strange thing: at the end of each coal/ore train there is an unusual wagon that carries nothing. When you remove it from the train in a depot it simply disappears. In the depot it says you have 1 wagon there, but it isn't there anymore. I removed it on some trains to make them longer with carriages from another train, that is shorter now and runs between Casterbridge West Yard and Melchester. Maybe it's because they're from an earlier version of pak.Britain?

    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/strange_carriage.png

    I didn't have the time to think about new changes yet, but maybe we should extend this contest, it's already September in my game and you wanted to play it till January 2012 real time. I will reach 1943 this week or the next, I think.

    Edit: It would be nice to extend the underground to Victoria Road, but it's far to expensive, ca 12500 for the track and 2400 for a 4-tile passenger platform.
    « Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 11:02:19 PM by Sybill »

    Offline Milko

    Re: Forum Game - Using the Pak128Britian Demo (open to all to join in)
    « Reply #18 on: November 06, 2011, 11:10:24 PM »
    Hello

    I experimented with carriage changes between trains and encountered a strange thing: at the end of each coal/ore train there is an unusual wagon that carries nothing. When you remove it from the train in a depot it simply disappears. In the depot it says you have 1 wagon there, but it isn't there anymore. I removed it on some trains to make them longer with carriages from another train, that is shorter now and runs between Casterbridge West Yard and Melchester. Maybe it's because they're from an earlier version of pak.Britain?

    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/strange_carriage.png

    This is a brake van, you may look this http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=6338.msg61154#msg61154

    Giuseppe

    Offline Severous

    Re: Forum Game - Using the Pak128Britian Demo (open to all to join in)
    « Reply #19 on: November 07, 2011, 07:39:06 AM »
    Hi

    Ive removed brake wagon from the smaller trains but havnt had the need to put a big bulk train in a depot and have left them alone.  Maybe I should. I think Trikky has some unused piece good wagons in his depot. The brake wagon will be in the depot - its classed as a locomotive and you need to scroll down the list of locos in the depot to find it.

    As for game extension I also will reach end of 1942 in the next 10 days. I am off to real work now - will think on extension later this week.

    £400x4 buys 4 basic bus stops. They could extend the Underground station toward Victoria Road? Think of them as alternative exits from the underground station?  Just a thought.  Not necessary in my version.
    Regards
    Sev.

    Offline Sybill

    Re: Forum Game - Using the Pak128Britian Demo (open to all to join in)
    « Reply #20 on: November 07, 2011, 05:38:49 PM »
    @Milko
    Thank you for the information. I didn't know about the existence of brake vans, but my only games with pak.Britain were in early times without trains, because I like the beautiful old buildings.

    @Severous

    My idea about the underground was to connect the existing underground track to the dead underground end and get a new station for the underground trains. But that's very expensive and the reward is not that such great, so forget it.

    I have another idea now:
    There is a book shop at 182,16 that could be linked to one of the printing works, 147,7 for example. It could be connected with Kings Road Underground through a Loading Bay or other extension at 186, 12. Napik's  Casterbridge Yard Shunter can serve the line along with the truck, that's already going there.

    Offline Severous

    Re: Forum Game - Using the Pak128Britian Demo (open to all to join in)
    « Reply #21 on: November 07, 2011, 08:55:33 PM »
    Hello Sybill.

    I am finding this self imposed limitation on what we can do to be most interesting.  I think about the game when not playing it - something I have not done for a long time on any game.

    Books are very slowly produced. The publisher has 13.  I think it will continue to stockpile them without difficulty until we find a chain.  The bookshop would cost 1980 if we include a station expansion in order to cover it.  I doubt I would transport any books as I have hundreds of piece goods awaiting delivery into the city.  Your idea of using the Yard shunter is great.  I hadn't been thinking of using that to deliver into town.  I will use it more from now on instead of just the oil and chemicals it currently does.

    I have plenty of alternatives but no more really excellent ones.
    -The arable and sheep farms disappoint me - the product rate of 4 unit pm is not working at all. There has been no production for months (due to many pauses and saves which 'forget' the production fractions?) I would like to add those for the effect of supplying the unique goods of vegetables to grocer - but not if there is no production at all.
    - The Grain farms would make excellent return loads for the coal trains returning from Christminster - but would cost nearly 5,000 to connect and create a long platform. Loading would slow all main line trains.
    - Coal merchant in Melchester is my best idea. £2528 connection and has good return load due to coal being landed there in barges from the other coal mine.
    - Coal for power station in Christminster £3,236 connection
    - Single freight platform extension to Melchester north will connect a sheep farm. It has a contract with textile mill. It is in the same station area so wouldn't need transporting to create textiles. Empty piece goods trains could carry textiles northwards. But its a one off only benefit as it suffers from the broken 4pm production problem.
    - Hardware Factory at 411,10 needs planks and a sales contract. I have over 800 steel delivered there. It would be nice to make something here for use on return journeys. My Northbound trains run empty.

    As for timetable of playing - I think I will finish next week.  Can we compare games then? Swap files perhaps? 

    After that I am not sure.  I think I would restart, with city growth turned off, using the new versions, add an aircraft, redo immediately all our improvements then replay the same 1942 year again.  Except this time it will start with all our improvements, add more, and benefit from the tips we have picked up from each other.   What do you thinkwe should do Sybill?
    Regards
    Sev.

    Offline Sybill

    Re: Forum Game - Using the Pak128Britian Demo (open to all to join in)
    « Reply #22 on: November 07, 2011, 10:30:04 PM »
    I'm also thinking a lot about this game, it's like a puzzle.
    I thought about the grain farms too, it would be great to have some grain for the coal trains on their way back. But it seems impossible to connect it in an easy way with Marygreen station, so we need a new station at one of them and  we have to connect a bakery too, to keep the production going.
    The easiest and cheapest seems to be the Melchester North extension for the sheep farm.
    I have already running a coal train to Christminster North for the coal yard there, so linking the power station would be nice too.

    I'm ready to compare my save everytime, but I did a lot of experimental things that cost me time and/or money. To start with the improvements from scratch is a nice idea, maybe we can create an additional player who is allowed to have a new vehicle now and then for missing services?

    Offline Severous

    Re: Forum Game - Using the Pak128Britian Demo (open to all to join in)
    « Reply #23 on: November 08, 2011, 12:28:09 AM »
    Perhaps upon a restart we have a promotion?

    We also become Chief Engineer as well as Chief Operating Officer.

    Each week the Engineer can sell unused vehicles and use up to £5000 of the proceeds to buy any vehicles. (sale from any company can fund purchase by any company). Again the small amount to make us think carefully about what is most needed and also prevent dramatic alteration from the original game.

    My 5 coal trains are on one line. Mine>Christminster>Melchester>Casterbridge. Unless they are delivering to Christminster that means they travel most of the way back up the map fully loaded for delivery to Melchester or Casterbridge.  So the Grain and Power Station options are not as nice as the coal merchant at Melchester.  Its further to go around my loop to deliver to Melchester. The woodchips also mean a part load onboard for 99% of their entire route.

    Do you deliver any freight into the main passenger station at Christminster?  
    Regards
    Sev.

    Offline Sybill

    Re: Forum Game - Using the Pak128Britian Demo (open to all to join in)
    « Reply #24 on: November 08, 2011, 06:56:45 PM »
    You transport your coal for Casterbridge and Melchester  from the mine to Christminster first and then back? You must have a lot of freight travel on the main line! At the moment I have only one coal train going to Christminster North - from Melchester. It's waiting on the freight track till it's fully loaded. I have two coal trains going from Casterbridge West Yard to Melchester and back, but I want to change this and send one more to Christminster. One coal train still operates the old coal route from the mine to Casterbridge West Yard, and two trains the old ore route, all of them using the new stop at the printing works.
    My Trikky freight train brings furniture directly to Christminster Central station, but it's my only freight train with a stop there.

    Offline Severous

    Re: Forum Game - Using the Pak128Britian Demo (open to all to join in)
    « Reply #25 on: November 08, 2011, 08:18:13 PM »
    Yep. All my southbound freight trains run non stop from Casterbdige in the North to Christminster in the South. They stop at Marygreen and Melchester on the way back.  That seems to maximize their time running loaded as there are few return loads in the south.

    Yes it does increase main line traffic.  The passing loops help the passenger trains overtake.  As they have to wait for full loads of passenger anyway the shortest possible journey times is not a big concern.  A few miles of slow running behind freights is ok.

    Here two bulk trains are in the Casterbridge area.  Both fully loaded with bulk goods for Casterbdige Yard.  Train 51 is passing between the platforms of its ultimate destination and instead will travel the whole length of the map before returning here to deliver, just like train 49 is about to do.  
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Casterbdige_Oct_1942.PNG
    I am also experimenting with the mail carriages.  All are on a single train now which following the idea given by your yard shunter now also goes into the underground branch.  It has also tried the other two branch lines but was a nightmare of delays, so Ive axed mail into those lines.  Still seems more than enough mail to handle.

    I will also send my main line tank engine into Chistminster a few times to help stock up the department store as the lorries alone are struggling.

    Any directions yet on investing your weekly allowance of improvements?

    Edit: "READ ALL ABOUT IT"
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/PakBritian_Demo_Newspapers_arrive.PNG
    First newspapers arrive.  Again taking my que from your actions of using a shunter to move goods into the city stations I have sent this little tank into Christminster with a mixed load of goods.  A little too much at the Chemist but couldn't be helped.
    « Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 05:46:09 PM by Severous »
    Regards
    Sev.

    Offline Sybill

    Re: Forum Game - Using the Pak128Britian Demo (open to all to join in)
    « Reply #26 on: November 08, 2011, 11:11:31 PM »
    My freight train transports also newspapers along with the furniture now:

    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Trikkys_Terrier.png

    For this week we should save our remaining money and invest it next week with a new contract.

    Offline Severous

    Re: Forum Game - Using the Pak128Britian Demo (open to all to join in)
    « Reply #27 on: November 09, 2011, 12:28:15 AM »
    That must have looked good - as the express passed the slow freight.

    I see your tank engine is more profitable than mine.  A longer rake of wagons.  I have reduced the number of wagons in order to allow the tank engine to reach its top speed of 70kph..yet I also see your is shown as having a max speed of 70kph also.  Did I miss-understand what my depot told me when I experimented with consist length? I thought it showed I would have a lower maximum speed it I had any more wagons in the consist. Does you tank reach 70kph when loaded?

    As for spend..we have spent 400+2200=£2600.  £2400 to spend.  Could we do a few small things this week and still do a contract?  We could do a contract this week if it involved small industries and still do a £400 or £600 stop somewhere.

    My save is now nearing the end of October.

    Edit: I would like to make an exit at the end of the freight platform that we extended in the main freight yard. My bulk trains usually arrive in that station from the south and would like to exit northwards towards the wood chip stop rather than loop back through the busy junction. £250
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Add_rails.PNG

    Four well loaded trains passing each other. 
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Four_trains_passing.png
    The freights have a waypoint to put them into the parallel sidings. Allows overtaking by the faster trains. The passenger express trains are piling on the power now they have clear tracks ahead of them. Sometimes the timing is perfect and the slow freights are overtaken without having to stop themselves.  This arrangement that came with the demo is not perfect but its a concept I may try in my own games sometime.
    « Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 09:24:50 PM by Severous »
    Regards
    Sev.

    Offline Sybill

    Re: Forum Game - Using the Pak128Britian Demo (open to all to join in)
    « Reply #28 on: November 09, 2011, 11:53:08 PM »
    Hi, I didn't have any time for Simutrans today, I will add your freight yard extension tomorrow. Your screen shot looks beautiful with the four trains going in different directions. I'm still puzzled with the concept of shipping some freight all over the map first and then earning lots of money when delivering near their starting point - this looks like a kind of cheating to me.

    Offline Severous

    Re: Forum Game - Using the Pak128Britian Demo (open to all to join in)
    « Reply #29 on: November 12, 2011, 11:58:53 AM »
    My first play of the PakBritian Demo is complete.

    Its 1 Jan 1943 and this shot shows the operational profits of the 5 railway companies operated during 1942.

    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/PakBritian_Demo_End_of_play_1.PNG

    Most profitable were the two green express passenger trains. Least profitable was a branch line passenger train. Bulk freight trains also returned solid profits once operating on the main line and carting bulk coal and chips all over the map.

    Edit:
    I have restarted using the latest Versions and with the demo changes made in the past two weeks. A new week means another £5,000 budget and with £2,164 unspent from previous weeks thats £7,164 to spend on improvements. Plus a new budget of £7,500 weekly for vehicles (funded by vehicle sales).
    £750 spent: Goods Canal Quay at 157,17,2.  
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/PakBritian_Demo_Oil_by_Canal_to_Refinery.PNG
    Oil can be delivered directly to Refinery and chemicals shipped away by barges. Powerful shunter can be used on the main line. Weak shunter redeployed from branch line to work the freight yard instead.
    £1,996 spent: Industry Sawmill  130,22 to Hardware factory 411,10.
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/PakBritian_Plank_to_Hardware.png
    All transport already in place. 6 Barges allows us to fine tune planks transport. Either from this forest to hardware, or other forest for the furniture industry. If we later add a further connection to sales outlet in Casterbridge we gain a valuable load for piece goods trains currently running empty on the northbound journey.

    Edit:
    Vehicles sold:  2 coaches from the obsolete underground train (I am running just one of the two trains) £11,549 raised for vehicle spends.
    £2,400 of Vehicle Budget spent:
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/PakBritian_Demo_Spend_%A32400.PNG

    This freight train is the only really profitable vehicle in this company. It is the main steel and plank transport in the demo. Directed into the depot to remove the unneeded brake van it took a convoluted route via the main station. Once in the depot I saw the new wagons. I added one and it remains a 7 station length train.   Also in shot are two tanks engines.  The mixed consist train was the freight yard shunter - but it is powerful and faster than most freights. So with barges moving the oil there is less need for a shunter. So its going onto the main line.  The other is a low power shunter diverted from the Bene branch line. In the previous game this obsolete tank was a small freight train operated on the main line and quite profitable - but this time I will use it for goods shunting.

    Further vehicle spends considered but awaiting comment..or a day or so dalay:
    £2,200 Leyland Cub (minibus) for Casterbridge. To help with passenger queues at all stops.
    £277 Gloucester Railcar for Havenpool Branch line. To allow loss making passenger train to be retired.
    £0 Post bikes!
    £200 Coal barges on Havenpool Canal

    « Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 02:18:22 PM by Severous »
    Regards
    Sev.

    Offline AP

    Re: Forum Game - Using the Pak128Britian Demo (open to all to join in)
    « Reply #30 on: November 13, 2011, 05:10:43 PM »
    Hi everyone.

    Just to say, it's awesome to see people playing the demo. When I made it, it was intended merely to 'look good', never to run for very long. It's interesting to see people getting to grips with the economies of production - maybe that can even get fed back into the pak design, if some industries are underproducing.

    Express overtakes TWO freights.
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Express_overtakes_two_trains.png
    ...You can see the green express has managed to secure the main line beyond the  far end of the overtaking siding. The signals are very well placed and the expresses benefit on each trip by overtaking the slower freight trains in the various sidings like this.  This was the first time I saw two moving freight trains get overtaken in one siding.
    Those overtaking loops took quite a bit of fiddling with the signals, was rather pleased when I got them working! First time I've seen a double overtake though!

    Good luck,

    AP.   :)

    Offline Severous

    Re: Forum Game - Using the Pak128Britian Demo (open to all to join in)
    « Reply #31 on: November 13, 2011, 06:29:00 PM »
    Hello AP. Its a very nice game save you made. How long did it take you?

    Here the vehicle I couldnt make profitable is being withdrawn.  
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/PakBritian_take_train_out_of_service.png
    The locomotive running costs would be better covered with a longer rake of coaches and wagons, but not on this branch line.  So it goes into the depot where it will stay.  Its three fish wagons will added to the other train, the Tank engine, when it returns from fish delivery to the main line station at Marygreen.  Passenger service will be provided by a new Railcar which feels kinda right for the branch line.

    AP..do you have suggesttions or ideas for vehicles or improvements would would like to see incorporated into your demo?  Sadly no aircraft yet for 1942.  I had hoped V111 would have an aircraft that would use the airfields you created.

    Edit:
    Passenger behavior is indeed different in V111 compared to V110. Intercity trains spend longer waiting for passengers.  Not long enough for the passengers crammed into the local EMU train just arriving.  They just missed the departing green express.  Never mind, the GWR King is still waiting.  Its the fastest train in the demo and will leave later in the day.
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/PakBritian_Passengers_in_new_version.png
    In my previous play using V110 the express passenger trains did not have to wait long.  In this this play on V111 there are more local passengers. I imagine if local passengers and mail is generated more often in early years, that will help players achieve higher travels ratings in all their games. Players are more likely to have their cities fully covered than have all cities connected.

    Editx3:
    Vehicles purchased:
    £277 GWR Gloucester Railcar (Bugged price has been reported to the forum)
    £200x4 Bulk Goods Barge for Havenpool Canal.  To help shift coal to the rail station where bulk trains leave empty.
    £0x2 (so far) Mail bikes. Zero cost I plan to 'buy' several.
    Edit: No other player..so I will spend
    £2,200 on Leyland Cub minibus for Casterbridge.  The extra local passengers in V111 need more buses.
    Leaves £1823 to spend on vehicles this week

    Edit:
    £1,936 spent on another contract. Hardware Factory 411,10 to Hardware shop 187,12. This will start this chain and provide piece goods for northbound empty trains.
    Edit: As week nears end and no other suggestions:
    £1,916 spent on contract. Arable farm to Grocers. 288,9 to 185,8. A little for the branch line to transport. Mainly to activate this type of produce as this is a demo game after all and we have no working grocery chains.

    Edit:18Nov and a new week. More funds to spend.
    £2,200 a second Leyland Cub for Casterbridge. A profitable vehicle and needed to help with passenger numbers.
    £2,400 Sentinal S Piece Good lorry for Christchurch. Not essential but adds capacity to existing route.
    £400 Post box loading bay for Marygreen High Street 424,15,1  Add mail to network and existing post van already passes here.
    £2,528 Contract for Coal from Collery at 35,11, to Coal Merchant at 310,23. Very useful as there are return loads of coal for power station
    £0 cost improvement to Christchurch Junction. Didnt even need spend to add the electric rail. will slightly improve running. Plus looks better
    http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/PakBritian_Demo_junction_improvement.PNG

    Edit 22Nov: I am nearly done with this. Last changes:
    £600 on a goods siding 303,15,2 to collect wool from farm for textile mill.
    £2,200 a third Mini Bus for Casterbridge.
    £400 Loading bay Post box 186,12,4 to reduce vehicle congestion

    Edit:  My second play finished.  I am done.  No more for me.

    Total net operating income in the second play was £1.5million compared to £1.8million first time.  So apparently I did worse despite being my second go and having additional improvements and vehicles.   Analyses of my data suggests however that the change from V110 to V111 is the cause.  
    - The 3 passenger expresses earned £878k in V110, and £474k in V111. (One express was sent to a depot most of the game due to low demand).  
    - The cause has to be the reduced number of intercity passengers in 1942. This is code a change in V111.
    - I had also stopped village growth in smaller towns which will have reduced passenger numbers slightly but not materially.
    - Mail was also down, £139k to £116k but that figure is not so reliable as I played the mail train differently in play 2.


    « Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 09:15:40 PM by Severous »
    Regards
    Sev.