starting conditions

[surge]

Hallo.

Ive been repeatedly starting new maps to try to get full industry chains, but after about 1 hour of loading new games there's still nothing even close to acceptable results. And it just takes longer and longer to generate each time for some reason.
I've been fiddling with the starting parameters, but how do they work? Some parameters seem to do things, but I can't figure out the correlation between them and what I end up with for a starting map.

In detail, Ive noticed that setting the ratio of countryside industries vs in-town industries to less than about 10 means you get no industries at all (huh?). And no matter what I do, I seem to always get a ridiculously huge number of oil or coal power chains. Fooling with the landscape parameters seems to occasionally have some effect too, but I can't figure it out. I was hoping for a nice forest -> sawmill -> furniture factory -> wholesale chain at least, maybe a concrete one too.

Who knows the deep dark secrets for relating starting parameters to the types and number of industry chains the game generates?

[vilvoh]

Uhmm, would be quite complex to explain all aspects of map generation but let's point out some things. As you have mentioned, almost all industry chains have almost all elements outside the city and only one final consumer inside the city. From my point of view, that's quite reasonable.

On the other hand, we have the special case of coal and oil producers. They supply goods to industry and energetical chains (powerplants) so in theory, they should be more common. In addition, every industry has two important parameters: DistributionWeight, related with the amount of times the element may appear and Range related with the minimun distance between two factories of the same type. Coal mine and mainly Oil pumps have high DistributionWeight and low Range, that why they appear so often.

Code Select Expand


name=Oelfeld
DistributionWeight=125
Range=200
#####################
name=Oelpumpe
DistributionWeight=90
Productivity=90
Range=24
####################
name=Oelbohrinsel
DistributionWeight=100
Range=200
####################
name=Kohlegrube (COAL MINE)
DistributionWeight=100
Range=600


So you've several options to avoid this situation:

• Modifiy some parameters from simuconf.tab, industry stuff section.
• Change to Public Service player and use special tools to remove and build new industries and chains where you want.

[DirrrtyDirk]

What version of simutrans do you use? 99.17 or 100.x ?

And usually this is the result of setting the starting parameters all wrong - as I have explained a number of times, and right now Im to busy to do it once again. Try and search the forum or wait until I have more time.

[Sarrus]

Try to increase "Median Citizens per City". This should cause more supermarkets on map, and more industry chains

[surge]

Good suggestions and explanations.

The oil/coal thing still seems a bit ridiculous. If that were the case in real life, you wouldn't be able to travel 2km in a 1st world country without seeing a plant, but at least I understand it and know how to change it now.

Thanks people.

[DirrrtyDirk]

Well, depending on what version you play... (which you haven't answered yet, BTW)

in 99.17.1, "factories outside cities" means only power plants and their suppliers - all other idustry chains are part of "markets in cities" (=the final consumer plus all its suppliers). So if you set a high number for "factories outsied cities", it is anything but ridiculous to find lots of oil/coal and the matching powerplants - it is just what you set it up to do.

Somewhere in the 100.x versions, the system was changed a bit. There you only have "industry chains" and "percent electricity" for settings.

[surge]

That's interesting.
I'm just a user, and don't have the time/energy to contribute, so I'm not going to complain about beta stuff. I'm using the stable 99.17.1 therefore.
Wish they'd fix the crap X11 mouse handling before stuff like that to be honest, but beggers can't be choosers, and it seems to be an O/S thing anyway.

Prost.

[Roads]

Now that I know about the public service player I actually prefer the industry chains being incomplete at startup.  It allows the player to add difficulty or ease to the game at his discretion.  Also there are often little cities which I like the looks of and have no industry near.  I feel just like the Japanese auto makers building factories in the south.  What was once way back in the sticks can now become a thriving city.