Author Topic: SRGC Brainstorming  (Read 19746 times)

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Offline sdog

SRGC Brainstorming
« on: April 06, 2011, 01:07:50 AM »
Let's brainstorm what the first topic for the graphics contest (SRGC) should be.

In the other thread, Vladimir sugested a few things:

Quote from: Vladimir
Subject brainstorm? Just thinking about 128 and my crazy ideas:
ferries,
car transport,
mail offices,
<insert theme> stations & extensions,
narrow gauge,
"take it to the limit" - special items that abuse current engine to create non-trivial or even better non-obvious things,
"player colour rules" - effectively restricting palette to PC + some small subset of RGB, perhaps percentage limit for non-PC portions of graphic
"future is not übercool" - not unrealistic items (?) for the post-2015 timeline

I used a contest to have some Ferries as an example, and i think it's not a bad sugestion too. James also seemed to like it, since there is some demand in pak-britain.

Besides deciding what the object should be, we should also decide upon how narrow the request should be. (I am very much in favour not to restrict the pak-set choice in any way.) After deciding loosely upon a topic we have to find a jury president.

please also read my anouncement in the Arena section.

Offline Zeno

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2011, 07:50:25 AM »
Big touristic places/monuments would be fantastic, such as Eiffel Tower, Statue of Liberty, etc. Anyway I would not vote for this for the first edition but for a more advanced stage, due to the difficulty of creating bigger objects.

Maybe for an easy start a citycar could do the job :)
And I also like the mail offices idea.

Offline vilvoh

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2011, 08:55:23 AM »
I would also start with something simple, like a house, for example.

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Offline gwalch

Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2011, 11:27:47 AM »
Big touristic places/monuments would be fantastic, such as Eiffel Tower(...)

Aquel made it, it's available on snfos site ! :)
look at http://www.simutrans-france.fr.nf/doku.php?id=en:misc

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Offline sdog

Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2011, 04:40:54 PM »
for the first competition we shouldn't make it too simple either, it's not likely this will attract many new people to drawing until it is a bit better known. A city car might be quite a good idea later on, as it is a good first addon.  (For example we could do a multiple pak-set city car competition, where participants have to addopt to the different style of more than one pakset?)

Vilvoh is also right i think, it should not get too challenging, as we don't won't only the very experienced artists to participate.

Houses could be quite good, but those will also need tile-cutter to be used, this is i think an obstacle to some. Perhaps someone volunteers to cut properly alligned files for inexperienced participants? Regardless of this, this reminds me that i'll have to link to useful tutorials in the announcement.

Thinking of houses, and post offices, i think also of station extensinons in general. I always lacked some nice station extensions to put next to bus stops. Kind of a bus-station building. Also entrances to subways are lacking in most paks, except pak96.comic i think.

For vehicles, a simple mail box-car or container car at modern times to build freight trains for mail is also absent in most paks. This should be not too difficult. It is a bit questionable though, if simple recolouring of an already available car wouldn't be more sensible than new painting.

Update
Just had another idea, related to gwalchs, a vehicle that increases the timeline backwards, anything that is introduced at least 5 years earlier than the oldest vehicle of that pak-set. For pak128 this would be for example at least 5 years before 1930.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 04:47:35 PM by sdog »

Offline sdog

Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2011, 05:10:41 PM »
In the light of the news in the pak128 board, a set of excellent new post offices were released, what do you think about VS suggestion?

We're a bit in a dilemma here, do you see it too?

Offline vilvoh

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2011, 06:03:24 PM »
Well, post offices are not a very commun choice when somebody begins creating new stuff so could be a good topic to attract new people. I support it. I would propose single tile post office buildings.

Btw, about the tourist attractions/monuments topic, I would suggest a single country tourist attraction edition. I mean, instead of stuff from all over the world, would be better stuff only from Spain, France, Germany, Czech Republic or UK. From a single country, to know it better.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 06:11:17 PM by vilvoh »

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Offline sdog

Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2011, 10:15:38 PM »
Well, the post offices are released already. I'm all for allowing objects released shortly before a contest into it. There was some opposition to this in the other thread, as it was consider detrimental to the incentive to make something new.

Given the quality of those post offices, it will be quite hard for anyone to make something better. That might be an incentive for experienced artists, but won't draw new people to this.

On the other hand, those addons very much deserve to win such a contest, just choosing some other topic for the competition is also a bit tough.

I don't quite understand what you mean with the second paragraph, could you please rephrase it a bit for me?

Offline vilvoh

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2011, 10:59:10 PM »
I don't quite understand what you mean with the second paragraph, could you please rephrase it a bit for me?

Sure. If you say "this month, let's do tourist attractions" everybody will choose the most famous and typical ones, mostly from his country. But, if you specify that the monument must be from a country, probably there will be diferent versions of the same buildings. Less options, easier to judge.

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Offline rfg123

Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2011, 01:06:18 AM »
How about specific architectural styles? One thing that lacks in Simutrans is definitive, era specific skyscrapers/mid-rise. You ask for something in the modernist style, built between 1960 and 1970 or something like that. Or a contest featuring one specific city's skyscrapers or landmarks.

Some other ideas (category, then some examples):

Ancient land vehicles (chariots, carts, rickshaws, wagons, etc.)
Ancient or early industrial ships (galley, caravel, side wheeler, paddle wheel river boats, early screw types)
Exotic or unusual way-types (tram roads, pole roads, corduroy road, plank road, narrow/broad gauge rail, etc.)
Geared locomotives (Shay, Climax, Heisler)
New GUI/skins
City halls
New trees
Ocean graphics
River/stream graphics
Depots for various way-types
High-speed trains
Special extension buildings (oil, gas, goods, logs, bulk, etc.)
Power lines (perhaps older, early 20th century types?)
New monuments
Future or conceptual vehicles
Futuristic building
Church/cathedral

Just some ideas, some may not work so well though..

Offline sdog

Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2011, 03:04:36 AM »
That's a very good idea rfg123, defining the style period of a building. I have something in mind, how about brutalist architecture? Very dominant in the 60s, mostly missunderstood. The buildings look distinctively, but are perhaps not too dificult to make.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brutalist_architecture
http://www.google.ca/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&biw=880&bih=541&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=brutalisme+style&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

(i secretly hope someone would make a Habitat 67)

@vilvoh
i'm not sure if it would be so desirable that many very similar or same scenic buildings would be painted. It is surely easier to judge but only one could be included in a pakset. The rest would just fade away.


Another idea for a later competition would be a "make something better" where an old graphics from any pakset is repainted. The greatest improvement could win. Most pak-set have some old placeholders, not so perfect or not very well fitting object in their set.

Offline ӔO

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2011, 05:57:45 AM »
I like the "specific styles/areas" idea. At least I don't think it would be bad for the first contest.

a few ideas I had were:

Rube Goldberg machine: a very elaborate contraption to do something very simple.
Ad-hoc vehicles: built for one purpose and one purpose only. (example: railway snowblower)
Improvised vehicles: making a (insert base vehicle that already has graphics) do what it was never meant to do. (example: reliant robin rocket, car-boat)
Second life vehicle: Giving a second life for a vehicle that has been obsoleted/retired from service after some "visual upgrade" packages.
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Offline sdog

Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2011, 11:13:35 PM »
The brainstorming phase draws to an end. There is no clear consensus found, beside it should be a house.

The idea of having a post office, is -- as i explained above -- not an optimal one at this time. So i suggest we take one step back, and go for a city-building. Using the suggestion of having a modernist house.

Draft: The object of this contest should be a single tile large building as found in city centres. It has to be in a modernist style, more specifically from the aera 1950 to 1975. The building can be a scenic or famous building, but does not have to be. Both residential and commercial buildings are welcome, industrial building only if it fits into a downtown setting.

Unless there are any objections, i shall post the announcement to-morrow.

Offline vilvoh

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2011, 07:22:06 AM »
Remember to put some sample images, to help and inspire people...

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Offline mobo

Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2011, 12:22:40 PM »
Sounds ok to me too. I'm going to try something in brutalistic style i think.

That habitat looks cool, but i'll try something easier.

Offline sdog

Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2011, 03:54:10 AM »
Anouncement posted: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=7163.new#new

Now we only have to find a jury president. mobo, vilvoh, VS would any of you like to volunteer? (it's only for this one) Btw, of course you can't compete yourself, if you do so.

Offline vilvoh

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2011, 07:19:29 AM »
arghhhh.... I would like to participate, but ok, that's fine, I can wait until the next edition. I accept to be the jury president :::) ;D

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Offline Václav

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2011, 09:43:16 PM »
Railway station extensions.

For example pak128 has only few ones that are quite old (silently coming from the birth of pak128). I don't know exact situation in else paksets but if I am not wrong, there is situation similar - very sad and treasoning.

For example Victorian station is quite nice on one hand - but on other hand there are only two rotations - and it looks quite strange when sometimes something that should be on side by platforms is on other side.

Two one tile extensions deserve retirement much more.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 09:50:25 PM by VaclavMacurek »

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Offline sdog

Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2011, 02:06:55 AM »
Good point Václav. The next one in winter, including christmas, should be quite suitable for a contest with one of the most needed objects.

If noone comes up with an even better suggestion, for something needed much more urgently, i think we already have our next topic.

Should it be narrowed down to passenger and postal extensions, or are all extensions (eg. bulk dumps) accepted?

Offline Václav

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2011, 05:49:24 AM »
In pak128 is situation with freight extensions (warehouses) quite good - due to recent Zeno's work of two warehouses.


They are not tied to any kind of transportation - but there it is not bad option - because warehouses are neutral.

But situation about warehouses in else paksets would be not so good - like in pak128. But I will look on it - and report situation.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Offline VS

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2011, 08:36:30 PM »
So, what next? Is the next SRGC theme station extensions, as this thread suggests?

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Offline sdog

Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2011, 09:06:05 PM »
So, what next? Is the next SRGC theme station extensions, as this thread suggests?
i would suggest that too. we had it in the pipeline for quite a while.

there's one issue though. I was contacted a while ago by a forum member who sent me a screenshot very finished looking station extension. Now, we want to encourage new graphics for the competiontion. On the other hand, if we would allow only new graphics, we would cause players to hold back their finished work in anticipation of a contest soon to start.

A soft limit handling might be possible here, but it should be discussed before. I don't want to erode rules (if we set some) but don't want conflicts either.

I would like to hear what you think about this.

As timeframe i suggest to have it end either 31 January, or last day of february. However, this time with a special Have a X-Mas work in progress WIP screenshot sub-contest. (Only price is mention in the blog.) The reason behind this are two, first it might interest more people to participate, when they see first WIP. Second: It would have been nice to end the contest in the time from x-mas to new year, but that's way to short, this is a stand in.

Offline VS

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2011, 03:32:04 PM »
I spent a few hours agonizing over this problem, but the result seems pretty simple.

1) Allow entries up to X months old. I think not more than half a year, but enough to cover one SRGC season back.

2) Keep promoting the competition as fun, not competitive event. Hard to do when it's a "competition", I know :::)

3) Encourage participants to share progress.

4) Avoid themes that require lots of work, these will offer most resistance to creating something new.

Not much helpful, but at least something...

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Offline Fabio

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2011, 03:44:39 PM »
1) Allow entries up to X months old. I think not more than half a year, but enough to cover one SRGC season back.
Good idea, objects released in the past 6 month should be able to partecipate as well.

2) Keep promoting the competition as fun, not competitive event. Hard to do when it's a "competition", I know :::)
All entries (with a quality level good enough) should be included in the relative pakset, a mention of the victory can go in copyright.

4) Avoid themes that require lots of work, these will offer most resistance to creating something new.
On the other hand, themes should focus on objects which are badly represented in paksets.

Offline The Hood

Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2011, 05:21:26 PM »
I'd support the six month idea. As for the next edition, how about something Christmas/winter themed?

Offline sdog

Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2011, 05:40:16 PM »
Quote
All entries (with a quality level good enough) should be included in the relative pakset, a mention of the victory can go in copyright.
I'd like to promise this when announcing the contests. What do the pakset maintainers say? We also have two caveats: quality and it must fit into the style of the pakset. Perhaps something like "in general" should be included in Fabio's sentence?

Content made before the competition was announced, but not more than six months before the end of the competition is also allowed to participate. (In practice we will handle this rule flexible, anyone could lie about the dates anyway)

Quote
2) Keep promoting the competition as fun, not competitive event. Hard to do when it's a "competition", I know
I shall put more emphasis on the friendly competition and the encouragement for cooperation in the next announcement. Looking at the discussion thread for the recent one, this should be enough at the moment.

Offline VS

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2011, 10:26:50 PM »
As to (2), if this round was any indication, the atmosphere currently is quite friendly :)

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Offline Fabio

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2011, 11:25:48 AM »
Jury should include at least the pakset. maintainer of all the paksets involved or one delegate. Their assessment should also evaluate basic quality and fitness in pakset.

Offline The Hood

Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2011, 01:13:46 PM »
Great.  I will win them all because mine will fit perfectly into pak128.Britain :D

Offline sdog

Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2011, 01:56:54 AM »
Jury should include at least the pakset. maintainer of all the paksets involved or one delegate. Their assessment should also evaluate basic quality and fitness in pakset.
I think that's too much fabio. A three people jury is i thin the largest group one can coordinate well enough. People are busy. I also think everyone we get in a jury should be able to see if something fits the scope and style of a pak. We can also ask pak-set maintainers if needed.

This reminds me also, that the jury for this one is not complete yet, and that i didn't take the time to talk with Zeno about the autumn SRGC or even try the new graphics in-game.

Offline Fabio

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2011, 11:18:19 AM »
So, what next? Is the next SRGC theme station extensions, as this thread suggests?
i would suggest that too. we had it in the pipeline for quite a while.
[...]
As timeframe i suggest to have it end either 31 January, or last day of february. However, this time with a special Have a X-Mas work in progress WIP screenshot sub-contest. (Only price is mention in the blog.) The reason behind this are two, first it might interest more people to participate, when they see first WIP. Second: It would have been nice to end the contest in the time from x-mas to new year, but that's way to short, this is a stand in.

So, will this be the new theme and deadline?

I think it's about time to post an announcement ;)

Offline prissi

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2011, 10:11:45 PM »
I would also like to see something geared towards pak64 too ... the last graphics contest was all pak128.

Offline sdog

Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2011, 11:43:41 PM »
I would also like to see something geared towards pak64 too ... the last graphics contest was all pak128.
Participants are free to chose what pak they like. So far pak128 was indeed very present and  no pak64 submission. to call it all pak128 would be a bit of an exageration (2 pak128, 1 czech pak, 1 pak96 comic, 1 pak128.britain and one unfinished).

To get more entries you can try to get more pak64 authors interested into participating in the contest. You can also make a suggestion for a new contest stating what is needed in the pak, i usually let gaps in paks lead me to topics. (ferries were urgently needed in many paks)

The next contests is already fixed. I guess, that pak64 could also have some use for high quality station extensions. (Disseminating some commitment to include winners and/or high quality submissions could also increase the participation ;)

While i have already something in the back of my mind for the contest afterwards, i am very much listening to input from the people maintaining the pak-sets.



ps.: i'm sitting in a major coffee chain starting with $, and came online only, as i just deleted all simulation output with a minor typo in a script. luckily the machine in my office running and i can scp it. Perhaps i should take this as sign that the announcement is long overdue...
edit: the state of my battery just made me reconsider if it would be a good idea to start the gimp and rework a picture for the announcement... postponed again ;-)


quite a while ago James Hood said:
Quote
As for the next edition, how about something Christmas/winter themed?
i thought it would be quite appropriate to make the next challenge for a winter building that also needs to have a summer version. The judging will be on the winter version however. Creativity for the snow use will be very much appreciated. Often enough winter version is standard with a little white dusting, let's turn this around.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 12:15:02 AM by sdog »

Offline VS

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2011, 10:38:52 AM »
I would also like to see something geared towards pak64 too
There is only one possible reply - what's missing? Stations? Vehicles? Buildings? ...?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 10:43:54 AM by VS »

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Offline mEGa

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Re: SRGC Brainstorming
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2011, 12:23:29 PM »
A big challenge would be to propose several versions of different existent pak  for the same object... A little bit too difficult?
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