The International Simutrans Forum


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Pak128.German / Re: Screenshots of PAK128.german
« Last post by pumuckl999 on Yesterday at 09:49:34 PM »
Paddle steamer (?) for 400 passengers....

Hm, forgotten some smooth-modifiers, but I can´t see in Simutrans :).

Patches & Projects / Re: Priority signals
« Last post by Ters on Yesterday at 09:17:34 PM »
To make it clear: Everything I have against this proposed signal is something I have against pre-signals. (Not that strange, since the signals are almost identical in operation.) I do use pre-signals, even if sparingly. And I might find use for this signal as well, although perhaps not in the way gauthier envisions it used. Of the proposals, I like gauthier's best. I would have preferred the distant signal solution for my style of play, if Simutrans supported combining signals, but it doesn't.
Patches & Projects / Re: Priority signals
« Last post by TurfIt on Yesterday at 09:16:10 PM »
@Turfit: all that you said has already been discussed in this thread.
Where?  Ters briefly touched on use of real life signal at the end of post #30, but I don't see anything further.

The need was clearly exposed in the first post, and several players stated that they also feel this need.
No. The desire/need for a method to allow an express to pass a stopping train was exposed, not a need for *this* signal.

Let me remove the superfluous junk from my post that I always throw in to reveal my intended meaning since you apparently can't read my mind...  (and this sentence would be an example of that junk, so gotta keep it!)
"I don't see the need for adding another specialty signal..." when instead you could "...create fixed 3 and 4 aspect objects..." that "matches reality".

I'm not arguing against the functionality of multiple reserved blocks, but against adding another Simutrans specific invention (specialty signal I called it above) when applying a property from real life mainline signalling would have the same effect. IMO it's easier to understand multi-aspect signalling from real signals than a Simutrans invention of 'priority' signal.

Simutrans existing 'normal' signals have two aspects, red and green, proving two indications, stop - next block occupied, proceed - next block free.
If in a sequence of these signals you add the proposed priority signal, you've effectively created a 3 aspect signal - red, yellow, and green per typical color light signals, with indications of stop - next block occupied, proceed - next block free - expect stop at next signal, and proceed - next 2 blocks free.
Chain in one more priority signal and you're still in the realm of easily finding examples of this behaviour in real signalling - a 4 aspect signal. The added aspect is probably less universal between countries than the red/yellow/green, but flashing yellow is common. Continuing to spell it out - aspects of red, yellow, flashing yellow, and green indicating stop - next block occupied, proceed - next two blocks free - expect stop in 2 signals, proceed - next block free - expect stop at next signal, and proceed - next 3 blocks free.
Chain in one more - 5 aspects. Probably can't find this common from real life - I think the British had this for a while as a flashing green aspect for 4 block free indication. Not going to spell all these out as I hope the point is made...

Do you need to chain even more in Simutrans to achieve the ability of an express to pass the local? I'd say no, so why have a priority signal with infinite chaining and a name that will create confusion?
Instead implement multi aspect signalling taken from real life signalling examples.
Patches & Projects / Priority signals
« Last post by Ves on Yesterday at 09:11:29 PM »
I know I usually never comes around this corner of the forum, but I wanted to add my thoughts to this mix 😊

I never understood what the presignal did until I realized it is a signal that reserves 2 blocks. Then I started wondering why it wasn’t just called a “2 block signal” or “double block signal” which I really think would be completely understandable and intuitive as soon as you understand the concept of a “block” in simutrans, which you usually do as soon as you start to place some signals.
I think it is wrong to call it something like a “presignal”, since that appeals to something that it isn’t is, just like you don’t call road vehicles “rail vehicles”. The player assumes that, whatever (s)he recognizes from the real world in simutrans, to work like (or sort of) in the real world.
What to call the “priority signal” I also have been thinking of since the start of this thread, and I again fall on the same doorstep as with the presignal: what is a priority signal? As I understood it it doesn’t really “prioritate” the booking of a block from that signal over a booking from another normal signal, but rather it attempts to book more blocks in advance, hindering other signals to book conflicting blocks. Even though I exclusively play extended, I support this new signals existence in standard, since I believe it only adds to the toolbox that the player have. As with the “presignal” (or imho, “two block signal”) I think that the focus should not be so much as to what it tries to solve as to how it does alter the signaling logic. Because of the similarities with the other signal (it at least tries to reserve two blocks) I would suggest a name that is also based on the other signal, and, as gauthier actually writes himself, it could actually be the solution to add the word “semi” or another similar word to the name.
Something like this: 
“2 block signal” / “double block signal”
“2 block signal (semi)” / “semi double block signal”

One could also call it “multiple block signal” with the reference that it might reserve multiple blocks ahead if they are placed after each other, but that is true also for the existing “presignal”? If so, that would render that name less suitable i think.
Hi James. Every time you delete a town on this gamesavem and you delete either a signalling centre or a station building (which was in the town deleted), the game crashes. Could you look into this for me please?

[IT]Italiano (Italian) / Re: Fatal error in entrata sul gioco
« Last post by An_dz on Yesterday at 06:38:03 PM »
Lo succede quando Simutrans è eseguito o quando una partita è caricata?
[FR]Français (French) / Re: Matériel Français
« Last post by gauthier on Yesterday at 05:32:03 PM »
Je sais pas combien de temps ils vont l'appeler tgv du futur mais j ai hâte de voir ça. ils auraient du l'appeler tgv3000 ça aurait été plus simple dans le genre ridicule: Guillaume pepy pense que le TGV du futur,c'est l'avenir.
Et encore, on a pas eu le TGV "NG"  ;D Les TER 2N NG de 2004 sont toujours NG lol.
Les infos du rail journal sont plus intéressantes que le reste en effet, merci beaucoup !

Dans Simutrans on peut déjà faire des compos sans voiture bar avec mes addons, qui ne prennent pas non plus en compte de voitures de première classe car ça n'a aucun sens pour Simutrans Standard. C'est pas exactement pareil qu'un ouigo, certes.
Patches & Projects / Re: Priority signals
« Last post by gauthier on Yesterday at 05:11:30 PM »
@Turfit: all that you said has already been discussed in this thread. The need was clearly exposed in the first post, and several players stated that they also feel this need. Presignals generate as many questions as many other features, the name on its own can hardly be self-explanatory and help texts (yet not always up to date or exact as Ters reported for the presignal) are here. A tutorial would be even greater. Loading time cannot achieve a good enough result, if it could I would not have made this signal. Feel free to test it by yourself.

It sounds like only people who already cannot understand the use of presignals are against the priority signal. Then should we leave a potentially useful signal because some players, unfortunately in the coding team, don't play in a way that would use it, using an excuse of confusion whereas players using presignals immediately understand how useful a semi-permissive presignal would be ?

My stations tend to be build next to the mainline. This way, stopped trains don’t block trains that don’t call at the station. This means departing trains, once loaded to their target level, need to pull back onto the mainline, which can result in a train passing at speed needing to come to a full stop, while the departing train joins the mainline. In that case, it would be much better if the train already on the mainline could just power through, with the departing train waiting until the train at top speed has passed. It sounds like the proposed priority signal would help achieve that.
Indeed, priority signal is designed for that.
Pak128.Britain-Ex / [Thank you] Why isnt the Class 483 available?
« Last post by SouthernTransport225 on Yesterday at 01:51:17 PM »
Okay thanks! :)
Thank you for letting me know the position - I am glad that you are enjoying Extended. If you find that this occurs again, please do let us know and we can look into it in more detail.
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