News:

Simutrans.com Portal
Our Simutrans site. You can find everything about Simutrans from here.

Two Queston

Started by Zaloo, March 17, 2014, 08:17:59 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Zaloo

I have two question actually kind of newbie though

1.When the factory showing the red color meaning not working how do u get it to start working again
2.  I was trying to start a passenger service but what ever I do I cant get any passenger in the bus station or railway station why?

gauthier

When transporting something (passengers or goods or whatever) from A to B you have to make sure of three things :

_ The two stations can take goods if you want to transport goods, passengers if you ... etc ...
-> You can see what a station can take in its window : below its name, pictures are displayed (one for passengers, one for goods, one for mail, they are easily recognizable) if they can take the corresponding type of things (passengers, goods or mail). A station can take passengers(or goods or mail) if at least one of its building can. So, if you have a station which can't take goods (for instance) and you want it to take goods, just build a warehouse or something next to it.

_ The convoys between the stations can take goods/passengers/mail (just be careful when you choose it in the depot).

_ Each station has to be next to the corresponding factory/city's district you want to serve.

For factories : the destination factory has to :
_ be client of the origin one (you can see what factories are client/suppliers in a factory's window).
_ accept the considered goods.
_ not be overloaded with the considered goods (not likely to happen in your case).

For passengers :
_ passengers'generation can be slow with small networks, be patient and check the points above.

For mail transportation :
_ Forget about it until you get used to the game.

If you still have problems, post some screenshots or your savegame.

Isaac Eiland-Hall

I suggest making a small map with, say, two cities and transporting passengers there. Something small and easy to see how it works. Passengers require covering most of the cities and attractions and factories before you truly get many of them - they want to go everywhere. :)

Zaloo

One more thing  why isn't it  loading coal  in the station, I tired it in  2000 it load coal at station but when i try to do it in 1930, it never loads it. it loading for every factory but coal

DrSuperGood

Without providing a save or screenshots of both coal mine and power station info panel when it is not working we cannot diagnose the problem.

A rough guess is that the mine and power station are not connected so will not ship to/from each other.


Ters

The last two images are from a different game or location. We still can't tell you what the original problem was, but in the last post, the coal mine and power station you've built a track between are not partners in trade. The coal mine wants to trade with the power station to the west / upper left (and some others industries here and there), not he one to the north / upper right. If the numbers beside the factories don't tell you anything, click on the small arrows to the left of the text to zoom to the trade partner.

Zaloo

Quote from: Ters on August 14, 2015, 06:01:15 PM
The last two images are from a different game or location. We still can't tell you what the original problem was, but in the last post, the coal mine and power station you've built a track between are not partners in trade. The coal mine wants to trade with the power station to the west / upper left (and some others industries here and there), not he one to the north / upper right. If the numbers beside the factories don't tell you anything, click on the small arrows to the left of the text to zoom to the trade partner.
Ok I think I found the problem as u said, "they are not partners in trade."  I always thought I could trade with anyone u liked :) tnx for the help.

An_dz

Well, you can trade with whoever you want, but that doesn't mean others will do too. :D

But yeah, you got it, in Simutrans each factory has its contracts and will only operate between those contracts.

DrSuperGood

If playing alone or are the administrator of a server you can use the public service provider's special tools to manually link industries together. This is great for "perfect" maps but generally removes some of the unpredictability (and fun) of industry links.

Ters

Simutrans is very flexible that way, and can be tuned into to being pretty much just a virtual model railroad (except for direct train control). There are about as many ways to play Simutrans as there are players.

Zaloo

How do u get a passenger at station and bus stops is it same like the factory because I have tried big city creating trains station and bus stop but they are always empty . Buses and train always empty




Ters

Quote from: Zaloo on August 29, 2015, 06:10:32 PM
How do u get a passenger at station and bus stops is it same like the factory because I have tried big city creating trains station and bus stop but they are always empty . Buses and train always empty

Sorry, but I don't understand the question.

Zaloo

Quote from: Ters on August 29, 2015, 07:22:47 PM
Sorry, but I don't understand the question.
Simple when I create a train station for trains or bus stops for buses, they always empty I got no passenger in  bus stops waiting,  they just pass by same with train station .Even in large population city I got empty station and empty bus stops . eg -

they are empty

Leartin

It's normal that there are no Pax in the beginning. Only if there are two connected stations AND people who want to go from one station to the other, you will ever see Pax. Otherwise, it will show you in the station that Pax got no route, 41 in Dakby. Those are essentially people who went to the station and looked for a train to their destination, but did not find any, since they did not want to go to Brentchester.

Bear789

In pak64 (the one you are using) stations have only two tiles of coverage around them, if nothing has been changed recently. Looking at your pictures, most of your stations coverage area is empty, that's why there are no passengers.
However, in this game, unlike Trasport Tycoon, you can connect multiple lines together and passengers will transfer form one line to another to reach their destination. The more destinations are connected to your network, the more passengers you'll have.
In your case you might want to try and build bus lines that cover the two cities and are connected to the railway stations, that way the busses will feed passengers to the trains.
I dont' know if that will be anough to earn money, but it's a start.

Zaloo

Quote from: Leartin on August 29, 2015, 08:23:21 PM
It's normal that there are no Pax in the beginning. Only if there are two connected stations AND people who want to go from one station to the other, you will ever see Pax. Otherwise, it will show you in the station that Pax got no route,  in Dakby. Those are essentially people who went to the station and looked for a train to their destination, but did not find any, since they did not want to go to Brentchester.
Ok I got what u said thank but how do I find out whats city that route number belong too ?

Isaac Eiland-Hall

It's not based on cities, but on the individual tiles.

However, you can use the map and look in the options there to see city boundaries on the map.

Ters

Quote from: Zaloo on August 29, 2015, 09:19:12 PM
  Ok I got what u said thank but how do I find out whats city that route number belong too ?

Name the route after the cities it connects when you create it.

Zaloo

Quote from: Bear789 on August 29, 2015, 08:48:37 PM
In pak64 (the one you are using) stations have only two tiles of coverage around them, if nothing has been changed recently. Looking at your pictures, most of your stations coverage area is empty, that's why there are no passengers.
However, in this game, unlike Trasport Tycoon, you can connect multiple lines together and passengers will transfer form one line to another to reach their destination. The more destinations are connected to your network, the more passengers you'll have.
In your case you might want to try and build bus lines that cover the two cities and are connected to the railway stations, that way the busses will feed passengers to the trains.
I dont' know if that will be anough to earn money, but it's a start.
That was my first thought too,  but the bus stop came empty to no passenger waiting.

Quote from: Isaac.Eiland-Hall on August 29, 2015, 11:45:59 PM
It's not based on cities, but on the individual tiles.

However, you can use the map and look in the options there to see city boundaries on the map.
Can u kindly explain  that a little more I got what u are saying so this route number are tile's number, but I still don't get which tile number do they belong to? Or how am i suppose to know .

Quote from: Ters on August 30, 2015, 07:52:51 AM
Name the route after the cities it connects when you create it.
U mean the line  ? 

Bear789

Quote from: Zaloo on August 30, 2015, 09:57:05 AM
That was my first thought too,  but the bus stop came empty to no passenger waiting.
That's weird. Are you shure that the bus stop and the train station are connected? Being just close to each other doesn't mean anything: if the station and the bus stop have different labels, they are not connected. In the base game you must chech that bus stop + train station count as a single entity.
Just build the bus stop right next to an exhisting station tile.

Quote from: Zaloo on August 30, 2015, 09:57:05 AMCan u kindly explain  that a little more I got what u are saying so this route number are tile's number, but I still don't get which tile number do they belong to? Or how am i suppose to know .

I don't get what you are saying, but it basically works like this: each city building checks if it's inside a stop or station catchment area (you can see those by pressing "V"). If it's inside, then it generates some passengers (the amount depends on the building level) and each passanger is generated with a destination in mind. Then it proceeds to check if thge passenger can reach his destination with your lines. It doesn't matter that it's a direct line, passengers will change line if needed and will travel on a line that goes through multiple stops before reaching their destination. It's not Transport Tycoon, in which only the very next stop counts. If those conditions are met, then the passengers will appear in your station.

So the more places you connect to your network, the more passengers will travel on your lines.

Ters

Quote from: Zaloo on August 30, 2015, 09:57:05 AM
U mean the line  ? 

That's what I assumed you meant.

Quote from: Bear789 on August 30, 2015, 10:36:24 AM
If it's inside, then it generates some passengers (the amount depends on the building level) and each passanger is generated with a destination in mind.

Actually, potential passengers are generated regardless of whether the building is inside a stop's catchment area, complete with a desired destination. You can see them in the minimaps in the city information window and in the statistics. At that point, they apparently start checking if there are any routes from any stop covering their origin to any stop covering their destination. If there are, they select the route with the least transfers, and appear at the stop from which that route begins, if there is free capacity there. If the stop is full, they are logged as an unhappy, unrealized passengers at that stop. (Maybe they try to find another route first, but usually, that would involve the same stop anyway. I don't know the details here.) Should there be no stops covering their origin, they also remain unrealized, and probably unhappy, but not logged as such anywhere that I know of.

For every potential passenger, there is also a corresponding passenger trying to go the other way. This simulates the return trip, though in parallel to avoid having to remember the point of origin for every passenger, and time is warped in Simutrans anyway. The same is probably true for mail, although there is at least one exception from the symmetry.

Zaloo

 I am asking how do I know what destination passengers want to go to  suppose  Ters want to go to city, I will get a number and no route like this.
http://imgur.com/RCoPsQC
Quote from: Leartin on August 29, 2015, 08:23:21 PM
It's normal that there are no Pax in the beginning. Only if there are two connected stations AND people who want to go from one station to the other, you will ever see Pax. Otherwise, it will show you in the station that Pax got no route, 41 in Dakby. Those are essentially people who went to the station and looked for a train to their destination, but did not find any, since they did not want to go to Brentchester.
I am asking about destination  Those are essentially people who went to the station and looked for a train to their destination, but did not find any, since they did not want to go to Brentchester. So are u telling me there is no way to know  what destination people want to go to then what's this number and Pax Leartin talked about?

Leartin

The number is the amount of people, and their specific destinations are unknown.
There is a destination mapmode, where you can see Pax generated over the course of a month, but that's not too helpful either.

It is hard to build effective lines at the start. Usually it's best to connect as much as possible with low capacity. So, you can have a bus network that covers each tile of those two cities and run it with only one bus. Because there is coverage, you will start to see the Pax, and they will wait for your bus and use it - though probably only a few in the beginning. That's why you need to expand - add additional cities, sights and factories to your network. Train stations like you did are no good on their own, they need busses inside the city so everyone can reach the train station, then they will go to another train station supplemented by busses.

Ters

Basically, over time, passengers in Simutrans want to go from anywhere to anywhere. Buildings with high passenger levels are more likely to serve as origin and destination. There is however a limit on how far passengers on average want to travel. This can change over time, so that passengers start out wanting to travel mostly within a town or to the nearby towns. Later on, passengers become more fond of travelling from one side of the map to the other.

Industries can also serve as passenger destinations/origins. This works a bit differently, as the workers explicitly live in one or more specific towns, as can be seen in the industry's information window. The workers do not live any particular place in those towns, though.

anglababy

If there is a map, it is better

el_slapper

in other words, coverage comes before ridership.

You've got to cover as much zones possible with low-capacity transport(typically, busses), wait for the ridership to improve, and then link those 2 small bus networks together by a train.

Big money comes from big lines(train, and, later, planes), but you need a lot of feeder lines. With bigger towns, trams can be excellent, high-capacity feeders, but be sure to design them so that several trams use the same path. If not, you're gonna lose money.

On of the advices is to begin with some industrial lines, that quickly ensure a proper income. Passenger income is better, but much slower to come, as the network effect comes to full. Usually, when I link the 2 networks I have on the 2 sides of the map by plane, there is a huge increase in demand on all my lines, and I've got to improve most of my transports.

DrSuperGood

The default coverage area of stops in standard is so small that efficiently covering a city is very difficult. Late game you almost always end up resorting to snakes of underground trains to carry mail and passengers.

Outside of gathering lines, you should almost exclusively use point-to-point lines to assure maximum transported and minimum wasted capacity. In pak64 this is especially important as profit margins are small and as little as 20% wasted capacity can eat away over half of your profits.

Although passengers are symmetrical, mail is not. Tourist attractions and industry (not houses) produce 4 times as much mail then they consume. This means all mail networks need to be designed to cope with asymmetric loading (have space to park at both ends waiting for load).

prissi

Also large cities will be more likely destinations than smaller cities. Same applies for industries, larger (in terms of passenger demands) are the more attractive destinations.

Factories as passengers destinations have another advantage, they are local destinations. I.e. if you covered three towns in the origin window of the factory, an you only connect one factory, there is a good chance that there will be a good number of passengers generated.

For large cities, making those a centre with line running starlike from then to surrounding villages is also a good start. And at the beginning the distance is also a factor, passengers are less likely to travel a longer distance.

Zaloo

not working my trains are running empty these passenger dont want to go too Aberdeen




Sarlock

Because the "unload only" button is pressed...?
Current projects: Pak128 Trees, blender graphics

Zaloo

Ok It working getting the passenger but very few only 4 to 2, Sometime it goes empty but I think I got the idea  how it works. However, a small country like this  how are u supposed to bus service.

Ters

Tell the vehicle to wait a bit before going back. Set minimum load to somewhere between 50% and 100% in the schedule. If traffic is asymmetrical, a maximum waiting time might be needed. Experiment until you find the right values, and be prepared to change them should traffic patterns change.

Isaac Eiland-Hall

Passengers may only be profitable once you have enough coverage across the entire map. And even still, individual collector routes may operate at a loss. Simutrans isn't easy.

One thing you might do is go into the player options and check the "freeplay" box at the bottom on a new test map. To be frank: I usually play with freeplay on, just because I don't care about money. I just like building networks to carry goods and passengers, and don't care if it's profitable to the game :)

Zaloo

Why are bridges so bad in Pak 128? U can't create bridges on the road going diagonally. And now I want to create a long bridge to cross this river, I can't create it. I get only problem in this pakset rest of the pakset bridges are so easy to work with.