Teleporting trains (new)

[Junna]

I have previously not encountered this bug, but after updating to 9.6 it now occurs rather frequently; trains appear to skip just as they depart a station, vanishing and then reappear instantaneously at the last signal prior to the next stop in their schedule (sometimes a considerable distance).

[jamespetts]

Junna,

can you upload a saved game in which the problem occurs? I thought that this issue had been eliminated in testing.

Edit: I have split this from the previous topic, as this is likely a different bug entirely.

[Junna]

http://www.mediafire.com/?c3iytfxgszzi4ks

[jamespetts]

Thank you. What pakset is that?

Edit: Never mind - you've included the pakset. But where does this teleporting occur?

Edit 2: After looking around for a while, I can't see any teleporting. Which convoys experience it? Also, I notice that you are using (a modified version of) Pak128.Britain Standard. You will not get the best out of Experimental without using an Experimental calibrated pakset, such as Pak128.Britain-Ex. One thing that might contribute to this issue is that the Standard version of Pak128.Britain has a very high gear set for all of the vehicles, but does not have any tractive effort set, which might well cause unusual physics consequences. Can you try a game with Pak128.Britain-Ex to see whether you get the same problems?

[Junna]

Thank you. What pakset is that?

Edit: Never mind - you've included the pakset. But where does this teleporting occur?

Edit 2: After looking around for a while, I can't see any teleporting. Which convoys experience it? Also, I notice that you are using (a modified version of) Pak128.Britain Standard. You will not get the best out of Experimental without using an Experimental calibrated pakset, such as Pak128.Britain-Ex. One thing that might contribute to this issue is that the Standard version of Pak128.Britain has a very high gear set for all of the vehicles, but does not have any tractive effort set, which might well cause unusual physics consequences. Can you try a game with Pak128.Britain-Ex to see whether you get the same problems?

It should happen in the vicinity of the Grimsby railway station in particular, but also in other places with no particular pattern I can discern. The Grimsby railway station should be a good place to catch it, though with fast forward for a while.

This didn't happen before, with the same settings and such.

The reason it is standard right now is because it was created when the weight limit was not possible to disable so I resorted to using the standard set; now it would be quite a troublesome feat to change it to pak.ex because of the fact that there are a few electric trains running on wrong electrification on shared lines for reasons of providing additional capacity, seeing as the general capacity of trains in pak.britain are unusually low; shouldn't the experimental overcrowding max be higher, at least for commuter trains?).

[jamespetts]

Junna,

thank you for that information. I am now away for a week, so won't be able to look into this until I get back (as all of my development setup is at home). However, can I ask - do you get the teleporting even when you are not in fast forward mode?

As to the capacity of trains: the overcrowded capacity is only available in versions compiled with the Experimental Makeobj. The version that you are using only represents seated, not standing capacity (all of which capacity is carefully researched so as to be accurate to the real life vehicles being represented).

[Junna]

Junna,

thank you for that information. I am now away for a week, so won't be able to look into this until I get back (as all of my development setup is at home). However, can I ask - do you get the teleporting even when you are not in fast forward mode?

It seems that it is actually not teleporting per se, because when normal speed is used, the trains can occasionally be seen moving at enormously high speeds, something like 1,200 km/h (I haven't managed to have it happen to a train being followed however, so I can't be sure, but it was much faster than any normal speed in the game, even 900km/h maglevs don't match this). The power ratio is set at 700 to allow longer trains without slow-down or several of the very expensive locomotives, is it possible that this in conjunction with decreased radius slow-down contributes to the appearance of this bug by messing with the game physics somehow?

(And on the tangent of capacity, I meant that the overcrowded capacity for a lot of things is surprisingly low (something like 5 additional for the 75 capacity stream tram), considering that it ought to be able to loaded up to 150% capacity or more; and on that note, is there any plan for some sort of setting to disallow overcrowding on a line, that'd be useful in some cases).

[jamespetts]

Junna,

thank you for your reply. Vehciles should be hard-limited to their speed limits no matter what the power, so what you are seeing is definitely a bug. However, because I had tested in Pak128.Britain-Ex with default settings (with a 100% power ratio and no "gear" values on the vehicles), it might well be that the extremely (and unrealistically) high power given by a 700% power ratio plus the high gear factors of Pak128.Britain Standard expresses a bug that is otherwise latent when used at more normal settings.  I would always recommend not increasing the power ratio, as the vehicles are given their realistic power and tractive effort in Pak128.Britain-Ex, which gives a realistic (perhaps even slighlty optimistic, as some inefficiencies or secondary drains on vehicle power, such as heating and lighting are not accounted for) acceleration for any given weight of load.  Can you explain, however, what you mean by "decreased radius slow down"?

As to the overcrowded capacity: the values are based on research. In the UK, 'buses and trams all have official maximum standing limits displayed inside the vehicles. The values in the latest versions of Pak128.Britain-Ex are taken from actual vehicles, either by me seeing those or similar vehicles in museums and taking a note of the number, or by research on the internet, or by interpolating and extrapolating from known vehicles to unknown vehicles. Only in relatively modern times (about the 1970s) did 'buses tend to have high overcrowded capacities.

As to the issue of being able to disable overcrowding on a line: this is not planned as a feature, as it would not be realistic: there are no such thing as "no standing" 'bus routes. For long-distance routes where comfort is important, the sensible thing to do is use long distance vehicles with low (or in many cases no) overcrowded capacity, just as in reality. Also, depending on the settings in the pakset, fewer passengers will tend to travel longer distances, so overcrowding on long distance lines is likley to be less in any event - just as in reality also.

[jamespetts]

Update: I think that this problem is fixed as a consequence of Bernd Gabriel's replacement of the fraction code with a customised floating point class, and should, therefore, be working in 9.7. Thank you for your report :-)