Topic: making 128 open source - what is left to do

[VS]

Thanks for the offer. Currently I am too busy to do much, but at worst after 8th June there should be plenty of time!

For now, I decided to look at timeline holes in greater detail... and got this. Warning - image heavy link:
http://vs.simutrans.com/remote_images/timeline/

bright red = to be removed,
weak red = no intro date,
green = no retire date,
white = no intro and retire,
gray = nothing interesting.

[gauthier]

wow nice pictures, nice work
but I don't understand why do you want to remove some vehicles :/

[Václav]

That is targeted against vehicles where copyrights were not gained from its author. It is the same why some buildings had to be made again - and better face was secondary affair.

[gauthier]

the creator have been contacted ?

The problem is that the vehicles to delete are almost good ones ...

[Václav]

1. Responsible people have been trying to contact them - but sometimes without any result
2. Sometimes it is problem.

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To station extension: what level (how much passengers and post) to set?

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Please, this request separate into new topic and locate it where it will fit best:
I need to know how to create source *.png file(s) for *.dat file for rotated building when I have more than one original pictures.

I have been using TileCutter 0.3d.

[gauthier]

1. Responsible people have been trying to contact them - but sometimes without any result

Their work could be made open until they appear ...

[whoami]

Please, this request separate into new topic and locate it where it will fit best:

If you know that a new topic is needed, why don't you open it yourself?  

To station extension: what level (how much passengers and post) to set?

This is the creator's choice. Take one that matches the visible size and intended use. Of course, if they are meant as a replacement for other objects, they should match them in their parameters, too.

I need to know how to create source *.png file(s) for *.dat file for rotated building when I have more than one original pictures.

Have you looked into the Wiki? That page doesn't say much about rotation, but the necessary parameters seem to be covered there.

Their work could be made open until they appear ...

This would compromise the free distribution of the whole pak-set. Not a good idea.

[prissi]

Fishing_Boat_0 is from MHz and who agreed on open sourcing, imho.

Why are all TS_Mack trailers but the bulk trailer removed? Either all or nothing, I think. And TS isn't Thomas?

And the Kagoshima tram never ever reached 100km/h in real life (but since it goes anyway ... )

But the way, does this script also exist in open source? I would like to built somthing like this for pak64 too.

[gauthier]

This would compromise the free distribution of the whole pak-set. Not a good idea.

... why ? I don't understand very well these copyright stuff ...

[Václav]

If you know that a new topic is needed, why don't you open it yourself? 

Where? I was not sure where to open it. If I had been sure I would have done it.

This is the creator's choice. Take one that matches the visible size and intended use. Of course, if they are meant as a replacement for other objects, they should match them in their parameters, too.

Of course that is creator's choice. I only thought that someone would offer it. So for the first (test) distribution I chose number 10 - after logging into SimuTranslator (I am one of translators for Czech language, so I could do it) and viewing level of VictorianStation. But I think it is high.

Have you looked into the Wiki? That page doesn't say much about rotation, but the necessary parameters seem to be covered there.

I read that - but it is only about stations. Solved.

[VS]

gauthier: Very simple. Authors didn't say it's ok to share source -> I can't do that.

prissi: I will upload The script is in this topic. TS is Timeshock, unfortunately. He helped with most of the trailers, it seems...

[gauthier]

You're not forced to show sources, just keep them in the pak ...

But if a player is a bit courageous he can recreate sources from the game it's just very boring to do ...
By this way I made a two pieces version of the bus "aeromidi" (but just for myself )

[VS]

Heh, but I'm going to do exactly that - make the pakset so that everyone can use the sources.

[Václav]

*. dat and *.png (prepared and also not prepared by TileCutter) files for new railway station extension will be available soon - may be within end of this week.

[neroden]

... why ? I don't understand very well these copyright stuff ...

Because -- simplifying a little and leaving out the 'fair use' provisions which are different from country to country -- copyright law says "No permissions granted unless the creator explicitly says so".  So unless the creator says it's OK to release them as free software, it's illegal to do so.

I don't think the current copyright laws are entirely reasonable, but you'd have to talk to your parliament or legislature about that.

[Fabio]

These copyright issues are also interesting given the international framework of Simutrans.

Say, for example, there is a Country where copyright law says "Permissions is granted unless the creator explicitly says not": could we legally put the download as free software in a server based there?

[prissi]

Apart from the fact that there is no such country (only all your stuff belong to the state/company/ ... ) the main problem is that I do not sit in such a country. Neither soes SF-server sit there. In germany, you can be even sued (in principle) for such stuff, even though it was legal elsewhere - as long as you are german or your company is.

[gauthier]

but you'd have to talk to your parliament or legislature about that.

French parliament = endless war between socialists and Sarkozy's party 

[Václav]

I wrote on thursday of last week that source files would be available within end of week. So I am sorry I am delayed. They are available here, on graphics.simutrans.com.

There are all needed files - *.dat file, TileCutter processed *.png file and also four original *.png files.

[VS]

So! Today I had an explosion of activity, fixed a number of bugs and moved the pakset closer to "open"... a lot. Things left:

• rail bridges - #1 problem
• vehicles - only ships are in danger of becoming hopeless again
• just a few small things here and there

General:
--------

Total number of objects...........1981
Number of licensed objects........1725
Number of non-licensed objects.....256
Number of non-attributed objects....51
Number of "system" objects..........68

Chart of contributors


edit: "moved closer to open" - my brain is making puns even on midnight autopilot

[sdog]

Code: [Select]

Number of non-licensed objects.....256what a magical number!

that table looks quite good!

[VS]

I forgot to mention: ships are in danger but not particularly so, because Zeno is slowly working on that. Also, he made some trains and buses, and there is also a great amount of reverse-engineered material from Raven, so railways could be covered more or less.

[sdog]

Buses - doubledeckers ale solely work of single no-go author

I think a few doubledecker buses should be taken from pak128.britain. The British are the most famous doubledeckers anyway.
Does anyone have an idea which are/were the three to five most prevalent?
[Back in school a bus looking quite a lot like a Routmaster was on the cover of my secon english text book, (the first had a telepone box)]

[sdog]

Ciao VS,
i've just seen you released the sources already as a  zip file. Thanks a lot! I've downloaded it and having a look on it already.

Two questions though:
Will you open the svn anytime soon in the future?

There is a very extensive tools directory with plenty of python scripts, i think it's only required to get the data into the form it is already in your archive, and not required to 'compile' pak128. Is that so?

[wernieman]

The Server, witch hostet the SVN for pak128 is no ready to give anonymous access

For "OpenSource" SVN we must change to a better Server ... at example SourceForge??

[Fabio]

Sourceforge would be a good ption, as it would be consistent with Pak64 and Pak128.Britain.

[wernieman]

But before this, we must "Clean" the SVN from the "closed source objects"

[VS]

Well. There isn't much left to do. In principle, if some transitional incompatibility was allowed, the game would be playable anyway. Just a few buildings and bridges, that were inaccessible in the nightlies anyway. Which brings a question: should the missing objects be simply removed, or should I drop in placeholder graphics and hope that someone will create new versions?


sdog: These tools are certainly not needed, they just help me a lot with maintenance If you want a hassle-free compilation though, get python, put makeobj in path, then execute pakmak.py I'm not sure if the export was complete though... I removed quite some unfree files.

[vilvoh]

Which brings a question: should the missing objects be simply removed, or should I drop in placeholder graphics and hope that someone will create new versions?

Make a poll and let Simutrans users decide then...

[VS]

http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=6236.0

Well, I can always claim this is not democracy if I don't like the outcome

[Fabio]

Railways are now the biggest issue with Pak 128 (specially bridges).
There was a full replacement project - similar to the Road project - on hold for a couple of years due to other projects in the meantime. Check it out here: http://archive.forum.simutrans.com/topic/03822.0/index.html
Unfortunately, most of screenshots got lost, here is one saved


I still have all the sources and the project is at an advanced stage-- it misses mostly BRIDGES , and i would like to repaint some of the tunnels, after the experience gained in the Road project. After this one is released, i can revert my work on the Railway project.

[wernieman]

Could you start in SourceForge with a "new" version?

Without the ClosedSource-Opjekts?

I think it would be a nice Idea to use a "place holder" for the Problem Objekts ....

[VS]

Could you start in SourceForge with a "new" version?

Without the ClosedSource-Opjekts?

Yes, that's the plan. (I think )

[wernieman]

There will be a private relocation, the SVN-Server will go off-line for 1 Month, and so I have a important qustion:

Could we bring this year the PAK to SourceForge??

(I hope relocation is in this case the right word for "Umzug")

[Zeno]

(I hope relocation is in this case the right word for "Umzug")

Do you mean a home move?

Anyway, I also think that SourceForge is the best option. Moreover it would be consistent with existing open source paksets.