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Poll: Public Service...trick or treat?

Started by vilvoh, January 20, 2010, 05:10:05 PM

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vilvoh

Simutrans has no cheats, but there's a way of cheating called the public service. Some people consider it cheating as they think every player must pay for his infrastructures, no matter how expensive or huge they are. You want it, you pay for it. Others think that if they're common to all players, you can use the public service to build them. Common usage is reflected in the use of public service. What do you think? How often do you use the public service in your maps, in case you've ever used it?

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Dwachs

Switching to public service is necessar if one wants to use the map editor.

Also I would like to see 'public service' as administrator or super-player for network games. Or as cleaning up possibility after all these AI players created their messy networks.
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Combuijs

At the moment I play with several different companies, so I need the public player to build common stations. So, to me it's a treat.
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sojo

In pak96.comic you don't change the player to use the map-editor. The map-editor is always in the main-menu.

But i don't use the map-editor, when i play. Ok, sometimes. But very very rarely.

I had placed the map-editor in the main-menu for a better and easy development. So, I don't need the change the player regulary. But I know, from some players, that they are like it so.

Edit: I think the public player is part of the simuworld. The public player needs help, sometimes. I build often roads with the simutrans-player to make towns nicer.
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Lmallet

I only use the public player to build divided highway networks, as most highways in Canada are government run in real life.

Václav

Why I polled yes? I use public service only a little - as a cheat - but is it a cheat?

- for elimination of factories I don't need or I am not able to join them to my business
- sometimes for replacing of factories
=> when I need that factory but it is placed wrong (mainly if it is a field factory - farm, forest)
- and also for replacing of attractions
=> when I need to build any track there

- but I don't use it for building quite new buildings (factories, attractions) - it means buildings which were not placed on map before this
- and also I don't use public service for building of tracks - to public service spend money those I should spend

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AP

#7
I use it as a map editor (and to alter any factory chains which are geographically stupid), anything else removes the challenge of the game (ergo "cheating") for me.

That said, there are a few of features i wish it had:
  - The ability to run vehicles; many local councils run subsidized bus, or rail, routes; where nobody else will.
  - The ability to charge companies for the use of their infrastructure. Turnpikes were originally toll roads, for instance.
  - The ability to add/remove funds to a company. If two players want to build a shared/joint owned railway line (common) it must be done with the public player (so both can use it), but there's no way to pay for it or maintenance on it - so it becomes a freebee.

Quote from: Lmallet on January 20, 2010, 07:30:30 PM
I only use the public player to build divided highway networks, as most highways in Canada are government run in real life.

This raises a balancing issue, namely that road transport prices sometimes undercut rail substantially in Simutrans when public roads are used, because, in real life, most countries pay for road use through fuel tax, road tax, general taxation and government spending - which of course ultimately derives from the companies/taxpayer.

The Hood

Quote from: AP on February 05, 2010, 10:14:01 PM
That said, there are a few of features i wish it had:
   - The ability to run vehicles; many local councils run subsidized bus, or rail, routes; where nobody else will.
   - The ability to charge companies for the use of their infrastructure. Turnpikes were originally toll roads, for instance.
   - The ability to add/remove funds to a company. If two players want to build a shared/joint owned railway line (common) it must be done with the public player (so both can use it), but there's no way to pay for it or maintenance on it - so it becomes a freebee.

Some good ideas there - wonder how easy any of those would be to implement?

IgorEliezer

Depends.

If I use Public Service to build an infrastructure that will be used only by me, I consider it a trick.

I'd prefer to use Public Service when I want to use map editor and to change the terrain. I don't think of something more now.

ӔO

I use public service to reshape the initial roads, tunnels and bridges as sometimes they can be quite ridiculous in design on rough terrain.
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Zeno

No, public service is not a cheat. Indeed it is a tool, and the player is the one who can decide if he is a cheater or not.
So I'll be lookin at you!! :police: hehe

colonyan

It is cheat.

Simple reason being, there is only one person playing that map.
(in single player game)

One is using other entities money to one's convenience and profit.
(unless public is controlled by another entity such as AI or other human)



werl

I use it to create an infrastructure and for connecting cities together.
Ok, I use it a lot
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LNBC

#14
Even I have developed 'Public service-Only' buildings for those Simutrans games with map editor- I seldom use it.
Is 'Public service' a trick? Yes: you may build what you liked regardless city building rules, get much citizens as you could (just with a click only), get your factories estates built- sounded alike Socialist government. However, careless routing and wrong urban planning could ruin your effort- especially congested roads and no-where-to-dig tunnels system. (Of course, it is a Longterm tricks.)
On the other hand, it is a treat- if you turn that industrial growth OFF (increase in population=0), and those curious buildings do not welcome your autobahn to pass through.

So, it depends how do our folks use this "fairy stick".
And I seldom use it- since I know abusing this map editor could let the game 'boring' and it causes some longterm troubles that I might regret. (Especially the "station-full" windows pop out in those premature logistic railways, piers and oil rigs. You will upset if you did not reserve places for expanding the station's warehouses in advance, or circult the railways for multi-train operations.)

ariarinen

I use it to offload assets I no longer need, and to remove AI networks that connects to my infrastructure and building more power-plants.   

Lukewarm

I have never used it, but work on the theory that people can play the game however they like. So I choose no!

vilvoh

#17
my game, my rules!!... good philosophy of gaming, Lukewarn... :D

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uktrain

Yes, I use Public service to build buildings with high passenger level to boost the demand of my transport lines

Lord Vetinari

I use it a lot: to edit maps (like adding or reshaping hills or mountains, rivers, connect water body which are close to each other, etc.), plan the road grid of cities (which I feel that can be very broken if left entirely to the engine) and manually place industries, as in my games it always seems that there are too many producers and not enough consumers. I don't think that this is cheating; actually I'd like to have more powerfull editing and terraforming tools.

Never used it to build tracks or stations.

geri

Public service comes handy especially at the begining to edit maps (terraforming, public road reshaping etc). After that when a game runs even if I build my own factories (which cost a lot but can be placed exactly where you want them to) I can connect them with the rest of the chain only with the aid of public service so I belive its a treat.
It is like a weapon. Whoever we choose to use it we can do good or harm (cheat  ;D). So its up to every single one of us.

nitromefan

I think it is cheating because you can build rail networks and road networks without using your money that you can use. It's also useful that you can decorate the map with it. So i think it's a bit of both. ;)

Lawyer

Quote from: Zeno on February 13, 2010, 01:46:11 PM
No, public service is not a cheat. Indeed it is a tool, and the player is the one who can decide if he is a cheater or not.
So I'll be lookin at you!! :police: hehe

Totally agree.

Quote from: Lukewarm on April 12, 2010, 09:28:14 AM
people can play the game however they like

Totally agree, too.

I think that it's not a "to cheat or not to cheat" philosophical question. To cheat is necessary that is there someone to be cheated. If you are playing by yourself, alone in the map, you cannot cheat with the PS, but you transform the game in a merely toy, withdrawing all the challenge of it. If you are playing against AI companies, you are cheating indeed, but only if you use the PS to benefit your company in detriment of AI companies. This apply in multiplayer games too, aggravated by the fact that you're not cheating a stupid computer that does all it's routes wrong, but cheating people that hopes to have as much fun as you want to.

I think PS is intended to be a 'government' to the simuworld. Thus, it must build and organize things in a proper way that AI sometimes can't do, so, a fair use of this TOOL is not cheating, but good sense (specially if you keep asking your self why that stupid computer put that stupid road in that f@#%$*g stupid position). But, as a real government, it should not benefit one person or company and prejudice others (I know that real government sometimes do it, but IT'S WRONG, and it's sometimes called 'prevarication', 'corruption', among other things).

To summarize, PS using isn't cheating, but you can cheat with it if you want to. If you want to cheat in your single player games, it's all about your fun, but cheating other people (real people, I mean) it's not funny.

EDIT: BTW, I rarely use the PS option. In most of my games I even disable the option to change player. I think it's funnier this way.
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sgtsammac

I only use it to add urban buildings to my cargo hubs to make it look more industrial.

electroduck

#25
i use it all the time now... it is essential for building giant maps and profitable trans networks
but it is a cheat... and i love using cheats! ;)
Actually it is not as usually in the real world the government handles most infrastructure building.
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greenling

That´s a very havey question they be not declare!

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Emil Sawicki

I think using public service is cheating, because it's destroying all fun. This is normal that I have to pay for all constructions.
By the way, I gathered all edit tools in one menu accessible without changing player.
First, I'm using map editing tools to move some buildings when creating transportation network.
My #1 rule, when editing city: for each building destroyed, I have to build one in other place.
Second, I don't need e.g. school near university, so have to remove one.
It costs much, so I have to precise planning. Effect is worth some effort.
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General_Submarine

um....
I use this as map editor and builder
However, after a period, My bus company and pubilc services both get profit instead of loss.

scud47

I use the public service player to get rid of industries in the way of my flat, straight highspeed rail. Sometimes I use it to fix up the constructions of the AI players. I don't use it for my own purposes.

dominickwan

how can the public service get some profit, any ideas?

wlindley

Quote from: dominickwan on June 24, 2011, 09:15:47 AM
how can the public service get some profit

Perhaps a portion of all players' "maintenance costs" could be regarded as tax, and paid to public service?  Perhaps a monthly tax on all non-player buildings (paid, presumably, by their residents)?

Václav

I think that tax laid on non-player buildings is very interesting to next discussion and so...

this my one and also two previous posts may be split off to new topic.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní