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Offline mopoona

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pak.german-exp is now available for download
« on: October 02, 2010, 09:18:20 PM »
The first Version of the pak.german-exp scenario for Simutrans Experimental is now available for download.

http://simutrans-germany.com/pak.german_exp/download.php?d=pak.german_exp.20382.7z

Your help is required: Please report any bugs or problems to me (via this forum).

All features required to play the game are implemented:
All passenger trains, airplanes, ferries and busses have different comfort rating and loading times. Push-Pull trains are faster at reversing and three tilting trains (namely Pendolino, new ICE-T and ICE-TD) can travel around corners at higher speeds than other trains.

The following functions will be added to future releases of the pak:
  • Overcrowding capacity for vehicles (busses, trams, urban rail)
  • A new cost system with monthly costs for every vehicle
  • A more distinctive comfort-system
  • Weight limits
  • Journey time tolerance

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2010, 09:20:18 PM »
Goodness. This is quite something for a first post. Welcome and thank you for the contribution!

Offline inkelyad

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2010, 08:55:44 AM »
There is no rivers in it?

Offline mopoona

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2010, 12:44:34 PM »
There is no rivers in it?

Since there have been no changes to the pak other than the vehicles, everything included in the standard-pak should be available to you. However, some experimental features are changing the behavior of the game. When the games creates a new map, no rivers are created for some reason (I don't know why). But you should be able to build canals.
See my post below.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 01:44:55 PM by mopoona »

Offline inkelyad

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2010, 01:27:34 PM »
From main simutrans config/simuconf.tab:
Code: [Select]
# now river stuff
# first river type (should be defined in pak dependent file)
# The highest number is the smallest. A river with max_speed==0 is not navigavable by ships.
#river_type[0] = river
#river_type[1] = small_river
#river_type[2] = just_the source
From pak64 pak/config/simuconf.tab
Code: [Select]
# rivers:
# The highest number is the smallest. A river with max_speed==0 is not navigavable by ships.
river_type[0] = river
river_type[1] = river2
From openpak128/config/simuconf.tab
Code: [Select]
river_type[0] = river_00
river_type[1] = river_01
river_type[2] = river_02
river_type[3] = river_03
river_type[4] = river_04
From pak128.britain/config/simuconf.tab
Code: [Select]
river_type[0] = River3
river_type[1] = River2
river_type[2] = River1
river_type[3] = River0

See? You should define it too.
And use different image for canal. It is same as for river.

Offline Frank

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2010, 01:46:49 PM »
added this on simuconf.tab

Code: [Select]
# now river stuff
# first river type (should be defined in pak dependent file)
# The highest number is the smallest. A river with max_speed==0 is not navigavable by ships.
river_type[0] = river
river_type[1] = river2
river_type[2] = fluss_quelle

# start with 16 (looks nice on not too large maps)
river_number = 16

# river min length (not too short)
river_min_length = 20

# river max length (not too long?)
river_max_length = 512

Offline mopoona

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2010, 01:54:12 PM »
Thanks for the hint. I accidentally forgot the rivers when merging the original simuconf.tab files with the one for Simutrans Experimental. This "bug" will be fixed with the next release. Meanwhile, you can add the following code to the simuconf.tab (inside the config folder from this pak) file to enable river creation:
Code: [Select]
# rivers:
# The highest number is the smallest. A river with max_speed==0 is not navigavable by ships.
river_type[0] = river
river_type[1] = river2
river_type[2] = fluss_quelle

# start with 16 (looks nice on not too large maps)
river_number = 16

# river min length (not too short)
river_min_length = 20

# river max length (not too long?)
river_max_length = 512

Offline HeinBloed

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2010, 09:10:25 PM »
Hi mopoona,

I have a few questions regarding your pakset (please bear with me as I haven't had the time to test it myself yet - if you think a question can be answered by just playing it, just say so ;))

- is it a 64 or 128 (bits/bytes?) set?
- did you base it on an existing pakset or is it a completely new development?
- are you planning to work towards a balanced set with regard to costs, revenues etc.?

Offline mopoona

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2010, 10:05:55 PM »
The pak is based on the 64-tile pak.german for Simutrans Standard administrated by Frank. This Version of the pak will feature the same vehicles and buildings, but incorporate new features from Simutrans Experimental. The original pak has a pretty well balanced cost/revenue system. I would say it is the best. But the new comfort levels, catering and other vehicle properties introduced by SE will require some adjustments.

Offline sdog

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2010, 04:38:45 AM »
nice! i've just started it, and the demo map has Neubeuern at it's centre. That really was a nice surprise!
Is it coincidence, or some of you lads living there?

the same in german
nett! ich hab es gerade gestartet und die demo karte hat Neubeuern im zentrum. das war wirklich eine nette ueberraschung.

ist das nur zufall, oder wohnt einer von euch dort?

Offline mopoona

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2010, 02:23:31 PM »
I don't know who made the demo map. It's from the original pak.german. I think this is a coincidence.

Ich weiß nicht, wer die Karte gemacht hat und denke, dass es eher zufällig dazu kam.

Offline sdog

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2010, 05:25:46 AM »
found two problems with narrow gauge tracks. signals seem to be inverted, allowing trains to pass only from the backside. (1947)

level changes (1 terrain step up) with elevated narrow gauge not possible, graphic shows tracks without girders, trains could not pass it.

crash with exp dev version 9.x: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=6184.0

Offline mopoona

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2010, 02:45:08 PM »
I waited for someone to find the signal bugs with narrow gauge (and the transrapid-by the way). Most Players will never recognize this bug, because you rarely use signals on this track. This issue may be fixed with the next release. If there is one, the copyright situation of the pak has changed since the first release.

2nd bug: This actually is no bug. If you try to build a elevated track in multiple steps, you have to make sure that all pieces overlap with each other at the ends. They don't connect if you just build them next to each other. Here is a tip how to get it right: After one piece is created, you position the cursor (the yellow box) underneath the last part of the existing track. Do not start at the level of the existing track.

As for the mentioned crash with the dev-version of SE 9, I won't do anything about that right now.

Offline sdog

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2010, 04:21:20 PM »
the crash is very likely not related to the pak, i just put the link here for completeness.

the graphics for the inclined elevated tracks is also wrong, only two tracks hanging in the air are displayed. i was also pretty sure i connected both ends. Using the elevated track with brick foundation the problems did not happen. I'll test it again when i have the time for it.

Offline Frank

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2010, 05:10:53 PM »
Quote from: http://www.simutrans-forum.de/forum/thread.php?postid=42863#post42863
... Bei der Stahlträger-Strecke fehlen auch noch ein paar Ansichten. ...


Quote from: http://www.simutrans-forum.de/forum/thread.php?postid=53455#post53455

Offline sdog

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2010, 04:56:18 AM »
just checked it again, the inclined elevated track is passable, i really failed to connect it properly.

Offline sdog

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2010, 07:04:43 AM »
some other things:
- DB 612 available in 1953
- tram 'track remove' does not remove tram tracks
- no "end of choose signal" available

on the economic side it seems quite a bit easy. I earn incredibly much on a not very large map, with about 150 small cities. (largest 16k!) with a rudimentary network that's not optimized at all. savegame 4MB

Offline Dwachs

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2010, 07:42:04 AM »
- tram 'track remove' does not remove tram tracks
You have to use the plain 'track remover' from the railroad menu. maybe the menuconf.tab has to be updated. The way remover for tram tracks simply does not work, as internally tram tracks are railroad tracks.

Offline Frank

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2010, 01:45:32 PM »
some other things:
- DB 612 available in 1953
...

DB BR 612 not DBAG BR 612

DB VT 12.5 / BR 612 german

DBAG BR 612 german

If you know of any vehicle or believe that what is wrong, you can also check the wiki.
pak.german vehicle list german
pak.german vehicle list english


... on the economic side it seems quite a bit easy. I earn incredibly much on a not very large map, with about 150 small cities. (largest 16k!) with a rudimentary network that's not optimized at all. savegame 4MB

The economic is balanced for Simutrans standard. mopoona has not much experience in balancing.
Set balancing takes many time.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 01:55:20 PM by Frank »

Offline sdog

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2010, 03:17:56 PM »
DBAG BR 612 this one did appear in 1953. (Always wondered what the BR meant, now i know :)


Quote
Set balancing takes many time.
that's why i start to provide feedback* :-)

*You know, in the german way, getting to the problems without a mention of the good aspects, not even thought of that. So, it's quite good. Balance is also surprisingly good. Playing around with general parameters (passengers, general infrastructure maintenance) might be enough already.



Offline Dutchman on Rails

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2010, 10:58:02 AM »
I did a quick run, and I'm sorry to have to report a finding:

Setup: Simutrans 102.2.2 with Simutrans Experimental 8.2 and Pak.German-Exp. 20382.

The 1st day of the next month after loading a save game triggers an industry expansion wether it is supposed to or not. For some reason, I can no longer reproduce this with Pak128.Britain-Ex (I've had lots of trouble with it there), but now the problem resurfaced with Pak.German-Exp.

I hope this helps. If you need a savegame or something else, please don't hesitate to ask for it.

Edit: In a new Pak128.Britain-Ex game it resurfaced as well. Apologies for the incorrect report.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2010, 11:10:23 AM by Dutchman on Rails »

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2010, 11:54:23 AM »
Dutchman on Rails,

this is a bug in 8.2 which will be fixed in the next release. Apologies for the next release being slow - my time to track down and fix the reported bugs is sadly limited!

Offline mopoona

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2010, 04:03:37 PM »
It is very difficult to find a balance in SE-paks. All the SE-specific incomes (comfort and speed ratings) are active in this version of the pak.german-exp, but no additional costs were added. This has to be changed in the next version. New monthly cost (for vehilces) will be added (higher ones for faster vehicles). Calculating these is very complicated and will take some time.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2010, 09:56:10 PM »
Mopoona,

I'm very interested in how you are finding it balancing paksets for Simutrans-Experimental; anything that you've discovered doing this would be of great interest to me in my efforts to balance Pak128.Britain-Ex.

Offline Dutchman on Rails

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2010, 12:32:58 PM »
I'm sorry to have to report a finding.

Setup: Simutrans 102.2.2 with Simutrans Experimental 8.2 and Pak.German-Exp. 20382.

In my games, town houses only show foundation (under construction) pictures. Town Halls, tourist attractions and industries are unaffected.

I hope this helps, please don't hesitate to ask any information needed (like save games).

Kind Regards, DoR

Offline mopoona

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2010, 05:15:40 PM »
That's no bug, look at your display settings, you hided all normal buildings.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 11:55:17 PM by mopoona »

Offline Dutchman on Rails

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2010, 06:21:07 PM »
I stand corrected, my apologies. :-[

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2010, 12:08:00 AM »
Simutrans-Experimental 9.0 has now been released, which resolves a number of issues in 8.2. I hope that development of this pakset can now recommence :-)

Offline mopoona

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2010, 07:21:29 PM »
For some reason I cannot load the current version of the pak.german-exp with SE 9. Does somebody have similar problems?

For now I like to give a little overview of the features I want to add to this pak:
  • Higher cost for building and maintaining railroads and roads.
  • Less km-costs but new monthly costs (higher for faster and more powerful vehicles). 
In real life almost 70 % of all costs are fixed costs. All locomotives will get new costs related to their power and maximum speed.
  • New comfort system: the comfort values of all vehicles will be calculated as a sum of 3 numbers (base comfort for the chosen travel type/distance, seat density discomfort and vehicle specific comfort), costs are added in relation to base and vehicle specific comfort.
  • new loading times: vehicle type specific loading times and payload related ones
  • lower journey time tolerances (they have almost been disabled in the current version). A few passengers will want to travel very fast.
  • lower passenger level (and less goods to transport)
  • overcrowded vehicles
  • more realistic traction
  • Road, water and air will be alternative solutions for many problems previously only solved this railroads

Each feature will take some time to be tested, I hope I got everything ready until the end of january. At first I hoped I could work with the values of the Simutrans Standard pak, but now I think a full recalculation is the better way.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2010, 07:34:51 PM »
Mopoona,

I cannot reproduce the problem that you are describing in running Pak.German-Exp with my 9.0 binary. Can you confirm that 20382 is the latest version?

Offline mopoona

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2010, 07:38:51 PM »
At first I thought my version was not working due to the changes I made for my test. But I downloaded the current version and your Simutrans Experimental Complete files to check it again. And this combination doesn't work. I forgot the exact error (something with GOODS_PASSENGERS). I'll try again tomorrow.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2010, 07:43:37 PM »
Are you referring to version 20382? That version is working for me with the released 9.0 on Windows 32-bit.

Offline sdog

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2010, 08:00:27 PM »
Mopoona, could you sort out the problems in the german forum, with quite a lot of the contributors to the pak not allowing the port to experimental? When i read the thread, i thought the whole project is dead already, i'm positively surprised now, that you're still working on it now.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2010, 08:10:10 PM »
Mopoona, could you sort out the problems in the german forum, with quite a lot of the contributors to the pak not allowing the port to experimental? When i read the thread, i thought the whole project is dead already, i'm positively surprised now, that you're still working on it now.

I was not aware of this issue; this sort of thing is just the reason why open sourcing things from the outset is important.

Offline mopoona

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2010, 08:18:47 PM »
Frank, the former developer of the pak.german, decided that the pak should be ported to SE. He didn't want to work on both versions. So there was no one left to incorporate the newest changes in Simutrans (network play...). Angry about Frank's decision not to support the standard version one contributor did not allow the use of his graphics. But this got resolved (I least I think it is). prissi now works on the standard pak and after the release of the newest version a team will be chosen to care for the standard pak. So pak.german wont die. The original reason for the dispute doesn't exist any more and I am confident that there will be no more problems.

It is in discussion to make pak.german open-source, I would like that too but it's not my decision.

Offline mopoona

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2010, 07:32:09 PM »
I did find my error, I downloaded Simutrans Complete with Version 6.6....

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2010, 07:40:51 PM »
I shall have to get around to updating that soon...

Offline quarks

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2011, 04:34:45 AM »
102.3 experimental 9.2 with pak.german-exp.20382

new map with timeline off and starting year 1. i started to build me passenger transport network in a few towns. after a few years the capacity of my buses was exhausted and i bought bigger buses. this buses where heavier than the road could handle. well, quickly a new roadsurface (gravel road) over the city dirtroad and everthing is fine (well speed limit stayes at 50kmh, to get speedlimit of new road you need to remove the old one and build a complete new one) until the city starts to grow and builds new roads or replaces the old ones. the new roads are always dirt roads (until 1892 when cobblestone road is available) and will replace every other road even if the road is better. it is really annoying because everything with to much tonnage just states "no route" and stops.
i accept that the speedlimit is set to 50kmh in cities but why do the cities "downgrade" existing roads? i would prefer when the city just takes over the road and introduces that general 50kmh speedlimit but the tonnage stays the same.
well, dont know if someone else had similar experiences or if this is just me. i changed the simuconf so the city can only build the latest city roads but i think it would be better if roads cant be downgraded (at least not the tonnage).

Have a nice day

Offline chs

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2011, 09:38:20 AM »
102.3 experimental 9.2 with pak.german-exp.20382

Trying to start a server, I get

FATAL ERROR
dingliste_t::laden()
during loading: unknown
object type -104

Means no multiplayer games with pak german.

Offline mopoona

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2011, 12:41:34 PM »
I tried multiplayer before and it worked. Did you use the same pak on both server and client?

Offline chs

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2011, 03:22:39 PM »
yes.
The client works normally.
I get the error above when starting the server, I do not even get to the point where I could set up a game.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2011, 01:08:22 AM »
Simutrans-Experimental 9.2 has a number of network related bugs which will be fixed in the next release, 9.3, which has been tested and works stably. 9.3 will be released within the next week or so. I have tested 9.3 (the sources of which are available on Github) with Pak.German-Exp.20382, and it appears to work correctly.

However, the error described by chs can be caused by the command line string used to run the server. If the server is run with "simutrans -load somefilename" and "somefilename" happens to be a game saved with a pakset other than Pak.German-Exp.20382, then this error might result.

Offline Milko

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2011, 07:40:45 AM »
Hi

Some news about this project?
In the German forum I have seen several posts about it and did not really understand what agreements have taken ...

Giuseppe

Offline mopoona

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2011, 11:04:21 PM »
Prissi will maintain the standard pak.german, while I'm in charge of the SE-version. There won't be new versions of the pak.german-exp unless there is a bigger interest or new SE-features are available that really demand an update.

Offline Milko

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2011, 12:42:21 PM »
Hi Mopoona

Take a look at this possibility (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=7958.msg75840#msg75840), if you need any of my models to enrich the "pak Ger exp" ask me no problems.  :)

Giuseppe

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2012, 05:05:11 PM »
Hello altogether!

I played simutrans years ago, and I wanted now to start again playing with big networks, and SE sounded much improved with all the routing things and that.

But I was not that happy with Pak128.Britain-Ex, and I would very much like to play pak64.german-ex with the kind of great balancing of the standard-pakset's version.

So, mopoona, I think it would be great to have a new improved version, maybe not because of all possible features, but for having a great balanced system with Germany's interesting public transport systems.

Thank you so far for the great work, and have a nice day,

Mazze

Offline mopoona

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2012, 07:40:12 PM »
There will be a new version this year with heavy usage of some new experimental features, like monthly costs. Unfortunately I won't have time until April to work on it. So I hope Pak.128.Britian and the current pak.german-exp will be ok for you in the meantime.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2012, 07:51:10 PM »
I shall look forward to this new version, whenever it might come!

Lions_Mazze

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2012, 03:00:32 PM »
Hello together!

Yes, I am playing the last couple of days (being ill and having much time) with the pak64-german.exp, and I like it very much. Because I live in Austria, I am very happy with the structure of the available transportation options, now in 1978.

What I observed is that many things work very well, and seem to make much sense. The things that I found imperfect right now are:

* I am not able to make any profit with fully occupied ferries (I only tried passengers over longer distances)
* There is no ship for carrying letters available
* It is not easy to gain money from local transportation inside a city
* It is very easy to gain money from using planes
* There is no official way to carry letters with some tramway (I just build a "normal" train depot and use very short trains)
* Per default, there is way too much private car traffic in big cities for my buses to get through -- and even with all the signs, sometimes they were completely stuck and never moving again

Furthermore, I would propose a feature for planes: They should have restrictions on how far they can fly, because only then it makes sense to use some not as efficient planes just because they can fly further without any stop.
And maybe planes should have to wait longer in a stop to unboard and board and get fueled, compared to trains; the factor in stop time between the two is about 10 times longer for the plane in reality.

Besides that, I really think there has been quite some improvement with many things and I appreciate most of the SE features, even if not all of them.

Thank you, guys, and have a good time!

Greetings,

Lions_Mazze

Offline paco_m

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Re: pak.german-exp is now available for download
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2013, 05:28:17 PM »
* I am not able to make any profit with fully occupied ferries (I only tried passengers over longer distances)
This is a known problem of pak.german and intention of the pakset developers:
http://www.simutrans-forum.de/forum/thread.php?threadid=6037
(as you live in Austria I suppose that you speak german)