As promised, I have added my work on narrow gauge trains to SVN. I also decided to draw a few vehicles so it is possible to use the narrow gauge from now on.
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1064/narrowgauge.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/217/narrowgauge.png/)
Included:
-one track type
-road crossings
-signals
-depot (placeholder)
-stations (placeholders)
-horses
-double fairlie loco
-passenger coach
No bridges as yet.
Known bug: clicking on a narrow gauge station causes crash. Not sure why...
NB I have no plans to make this a priority, so you will have to be very patient for more!
This looks lovely! Can you upload your .blends somewhere (Github, perhaps) so that others can use them as a template? Also, the stations: are they exported from Blender in the normal way (i.e., rotate x4 with the same alignments as the vehicles, so that my automatic alignment modification of Zeno's export script can be used), or do they have different alignments? And are there any particular requirements of .dat files for them? I haven't produced station graphics previously, so don't know quite how it works with that type.
Quote from: The Hood on September 01, 2011, 12:55:05 PM
Known bug: clicking on a narrow gauge station causes crash. Not sure why...
I guess the symbol for narrow gauge is missing:
http://www.simutrans-germany.com/wiki/wiki/tiki-index.php?machine_translate_to_lang=&page=en_SymbolDef&no_bl=y#The_names_of_the_symbol_objects
ie a symbol with
name=NarrowgaugeStop
You're probably right - I'd forgotten about all those...
fixed - thanks Dwachs.
The Hood
A Big Thank on You that you have be build in the The Narrow Gauge in pak128.britain!
now Can i beginn to creat my own pakset!
In my pakset what i want too creat need i all waytyp´s what be give in Simutrans!
How about a mail coach, as well? Would there be a similar one for package goods well?
(http://www.wlindley.com/images/simutrans/fr-mail-coach.png)
obj=vehicle
name=FRPostCoach(CC)
speed=80
copyright=James
#Arbitrary...
intro_year=1850
intro_month=1
waytype=narrowgauge_track
freight=Post
payload=20
length=7
weight=8
cost=10000
runningcost=2
sound=-1
can_lead_from_rear=0
bidirectional=1
min_loading_time=17
max_loading_time=47
EmptyImage[E]=./images/fr-mail-coach.0.0
EmptyImage[SE]=./images/fr-mail-coach.0.1
EmptyImage[S]=./images/fr-mail-coach.0.2
EmptyImage[SW]=./images/fr-mail-coach.0.3
EmptyImage[W]=./images/fr-mail-coach.0.4
EmptyImage[NW]=./images/fr-mail-coach.0.5
EmptyImage[N]=./images/fr-mail-coach.0.6
EmptyImage[NE]=./images/fr-mail-coach.0.7
And a crossing:
(http://www.wlindley.com/images/simutrans/crossing-narrow-screenshot.png)
(http://www.wlindley.com/images/simutrans/narrow-rail-crossing.png)
obj=crossing
name=narrow-rail-crossing
waytype[0]=track
waytype[1]=narrowgauge_track
speed[0]=60
speed[1]=40
openimage[ns][0]=images/narrow-rail-crossing.0.1
closedimage[ns][0]=images/narrow-rail-crossing.0.1
openimage[ew][0]=images/narrow-rail-crossing.0.0
closedimage[ew][0]=images/narrow-rail-crossing.0.0
openimage[ns][1]=images/narrow-rail-crossing.1.1
closedimage[ns][1]=images/narrow-rail-crossing.1.1
openimage[ew][1]=images/narrow-rail-crossing.1.0
closedimage[ew][1]=images/narrow-rail-crossing.1.0
Added to the Experimental repository - thank you!
I like this addition very much!
But I have a question about the crossing:
What will happen if there are a narrow and a normal train at the crossing at the same time. As I understand it narrow gauge is in the monorail slot. If the narrow train has the same behaviour as the monorails they will cross without stopping, won't they?
Afaict, if the crossing is taken by one train, the train on the other track will wait. Ofc one of the tracks take precedence over the other (the same as in road-track crossings).
Aha, so that's OK. I have not yet come round to download the new version of the pak but I'm quite excited!
Nice additions. I was meaning to add something along those lines. Just a thought though - the snow image part of the standard gauge rails looks like the older version which has been replaced since?
I now have managed to download the new version and have a look at it.
Maybe first some things could be put in from the "normal" graphics:
I suppose that the normal signals could be just copied to the narrow gauge...
What is also somethig which could be simply copied is the steam effect. It sort of looks akward seeing the steam locomotive moving without it!
Steam effect should be in there - look at the screenshot in the first post...
No there is no steam but signals which I did not see on the first look...
Here's a .zip file with a small test add-on narrow gauge pak and the .dat files for the following, which makes these new little trains quite playable and, really, rather fun to run logging trains up into the forest...
- wooden trestle
- 2-ton bulk wagon
- 2-ton goods wagon
- 2-ton woods wagon
All the dat's are just copies of the existing standard-gauge ones using the existing graphics. True, the trestle doesn't look quite right, and the carriages are a bit large; but these little trains running into the early 20th century fit quite well into the game play -- what do you think?
wlindley.com/images/simutrans/narrow-gauge-bits.zip (http://wlindley.com/images/simutrans/narrow-gauge-bits.zip)
and a screenshot... For some reason, all the narrow-gauge trains "push back" a tile too far when reversing in the station?
(http://www.wlindley.com/images/simutrans/mixed-gauge-station.png)
Hmm - I am afraid that I am a little sceptical about the idea of using standard gauge sized vehicles and bridges for narrow gauge: it really doesn't look right (and we can see in the screenshot that the locomotive is dwarfed by the wagons). My preference would be to wait until we have real graphics in narrow gauge size rather than use the standard gauge graphics and for them not to look right.
I'd also rather wait for correctly sized graphics in the official releases and svn. However you have provided a download for those who can't wait, so that should keep everyone happy.
Hi all. First time in an age I've had time to play Simutrans! Just downloaded the new versions of standard (111.0) Pak.Britain (1.09), the new content is awesome!
Thought I should report one bug: I can't seem to get the flat-crossing of narrow and standard gauge lines to build, not sure if it was unincluded from 1.09? Obviously there are no bridges, so rivers are also a problem (but a known one I think!!). Right, off to play some more!
AP, welcome back! Wlindley's narrow gauge additions didn't make it in time for 1.09, but you can download here or wait for the next nightly pak.
slightly OT: Speaking of the next nightly: Wernieman said in the German forum that there was nothing new which would cause a new nightly... But there should be, shouldn't it? At least the stuff from this thread...
The last submit was on oct 31 by me according to svn ...
Oh yes now I remember - I was waiting for wlindley to re-do the crossing images to use the new standard gauge snow images.
Just been playing with the narrow gauge on the server game. It works really well. The balancing is favourable (ie about right) - it's quite easy to set up a profitable albeit slow route serving small communities - exactly as narrow gauge in the UK was used. What I found harder, however, was 're-gauging', once traffic levels rose sufficiently, since obvously that involved lifting all the track and putting standard gauge track down on the same route. But we can't have everything!
The difficulties with re-gauging seem to be realistic in principle, although it is of note that none of the UK narrow gauge lines were, as far as I am aware, ever upgraded to standard gauge; narrow gauge seems to have been used solely in those remote communities that were never going to generate enough traffic to justify standard gauge in the first place.
Quote from: AP on November 15, 2011, 10:23:48 PM
Just been playing with the narrow gauge on the server game. It works really well. The balancing is favourable (ie about right) - it's quite easy to set up a profitable albeit slow route serving small communities - exactly as narrow gauge in the UK was used. What I found harder, however, was 're-gauging', once traffic levels rose sufficiently, since obvously that involved lifting all the track and putting standard gauge track down on the same route. But we can't have everything!
Wow. Not bad for a complete guess at the finance numbers! Thanks for the feedback.
The photo from the crossing between Standart gauge and narrow gauge looks good out.
Quote from: The Hood on November 16, 2011, 06:11:27 PM
Wow. Not bad for a complete guess at the finance numbers! Thanks for the feedback.
To elaborate - the construction costs are lower than standard gauge, but not enormously so, however the costs of rolling stock and maintenance/running costs of both rolling stock and permanent way are far more manageable in the longer term, reflecting lines which were used at slower speeds / less smooth rides, and with lower tech carriages/etc, I guess. As one who favours rail over road, I'll be using it instead of bus routes quite a lot I think! It may be that when fine tuning is done we think it's too generous, or track isn't cheap enough, of course...
The one (acknowledged) omission which makes using it rather awkward at present is the lack of bridges - even one would help (a wooden one maybe, noting the low locomotive speed). I ended up demolishing rivers, which isn't ideal... I know NG is a low priority, but I'd suggest a bridge be high on the to do list! :)
One can also limit lenght ot lets say 2 tiles to have only short bridges ...
Some of the most spectacular wooden trestles in America are on narrow-gauge railways, is the same true of England?
I'll see what I can do about a wooden bridge or two...
Any bridges for either gauge would be much appreciated!
Quote from: The Hood on November 13, 2011, 09:54:39 PM
Oh yes now I remember - I was waiting for wlindley to re-do the crossing images to use the new standard gauge snow images.
Hmm... the wooden_sleeper_steel_rail_snow.png that I used, is the one currently in svn revision 622... what newer image is there?
Edited the wooden trestles down a bit:
(http://www.wlindley.com/images/simutrans/wooden-trestle-narrow.png)
http://www.wlindley.com/images/simutrans/wooden-trestle-narrow.dat (http://www.wlindley.com/images/simutrans/wooden-trestle-narrow.dat)
The rail tracks all now use the generic rail-snow.png (I never removed the older images from SVN).
The bridge looks great - any chance for a snowy version too?
Ha, I guess I could have read the .dat's (*rolls eyes*)
(http://www.wlindley.com/images/simutrans/narrow-rail-crossing2.png)
and gimp source here (http://www.wlindley.com/images/simutrans/narrow-rail-crossing.xcf)
yes, that looks much better, doesn't it.
Great - much nicer thanks!
I just had an odd thought. Is there any way to code dual-gauged/interlaced track? Just thinking aloud...
Not.currently no.
Quote from: jamespetts on November 15, 2011, 11:51:22 PM
The difficulties with re-gauging seem to be realistic in principle, although it is of note that none of the UK narrow gauge lines were, as far as I am aware, ever upgraded to standard gauge; narrow gauge seems to have been used solely in those remote communities that were never going to generate enough traffic to justify standard gauge in the first place.
Indeed. It's different on the continent, where narrow gauge was used because it's cheaper to build through difficult terrrain. The Røros Line, Norway, is a classic example (being the Oslo-Trondheim main line, upgraded from narrow gauge to standard during WW2).
The only precedent I can find in the British Isles for
increasing a gauge is the Dublin and Kingstown Railway, which was to make it standard with the rest of Ireland. All the others were gauge reductions (eg GWR broad gauge).
Edited: forgot to close italics.
In the german wikipedia is a ver exhausive list of regauged tracks. All Kinds, even 1435 to xxx exists in the world. How to read the able: First row, old gauge, new gauge, length, year of first orperation, year of regauging, year of reitrement.
List is here:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_umgespurter_Eisenbahnstrecken
Excerpt:
"Paignton, Paignton Zoo 305 260 0,5 1937 1946"
the 0.5 km of 305 mm gauge track built in 1937 was re-gauged to 260 mm in 1946.
There must have been a lot of extremely narrow zoo or park railways in a multitude of gauges. They were standardized to 260 mm. Wikipedia is a never ending source of obscure facts of low significance, addictive.
Snowy wooden trestle for narrow gauge... wrapping up some left-over to-do's over the holiday
(http://wlindley.com/images/simutrans/wooden-trestle-narrow-snow.png)
Very nice! I like the wood texture.
Thanks for fixing these - bridge, crossing and mail coach are all now in SVN.
I have now produced a complete set of narrow gauge vehicles (largely based on Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland railway practice from the 1860s to the present day, including some South African Railway vehicles built in the 1960s and used on the restored Welsh Highland Railway since the late 1990s), and added multiple liveries to the vehicles produced by The Hood. All vehicles (.png and .dat files) are in my Pak128.Britain-Ex Github repository (https://github.com/jamespetts/simutrans-pak128.britain), and will be included in the next release of Pak128.Britain-Ex (the Experimental version of Pak128.Britain), but these should be usable in Standard, albeit with the removal of the livery definitions.
I shall not list the vehicles in full (a full list can be found here (https://github.com/jamespetts/simutrans-pak128.britain/tree/master/narrowgauge)), although note that this includes The Hood's original vehicles, the Double Fairlie and the "Barn" carriages in present day red and cream livery), but instead I shall give some illustrative examples of the new vehicles in action.
(http://www.bridgewater-brunel.me.uk/screenshots/george-england-bugbox.png)
This is the "George England" type of locomotive, built for the Ffestiniog Railway from 1863, hauling a rake of the original four wheel "small Birmimgham" or "bugbox" carriages used on that line from the 1860s onwards. At the rear is a goods brake, as no passenger brakes were built at this time. The train is in its late 19th century livery, the locomotive having acquired the more familiar saddle tank and lighter red livery (it is also available in original maroon with side tanks), and the carriages being in the "royal purple and cream" livery that replaced the all over "royal purple" livery in the later part of the 19th century. These locomotives were the first narrow gauge steam locomotives in the world, it previously having been thought impractical to build a locomotive on this scale.
(http://www.bridgewater-brunel.me.uk/screenshots/single-fairlie-bogie.png)
This is a "Single Fairlie" locomotive, a more conventional and smaller version of the famous "Double Fairlie". These locomotives were liked by drivers and found to be economical, albeit not as powerful as their larger cousins. It is seen hauling a rake of 1870s bogie carriages, with the "curly roofed van" at the end. The bogie carriages, first built in 1872, were the first bogie carriages on any gauge of railway to enter revenue earning service in the British Isles, and, remarkably, are still in service on their original line, doing exactly what they were built to do (albeit hauling tourists now more than locals). I rode in one in May, and the first class compartment was very comfortable (which is more than can be said for the thirds, but that is another matter). The train is in the same late 19th century livery as that above.
(http://www.bridgewater-brunel.me.uk/screenshots/alice-goods.png)
The smallest now of all the railway locomotives in the pakset - the Hunslet 0-4-0 "Alice" class, used as a quarry locomotive for the most part. This small and inexpensive machine might lack pulling power compared to the Fairlie types, but it is the quintessential narrow gauge locomotive, and might well be useful on short trains. Here it is seen pulling a mixed rake of goods wagons.
(http://www.bridgewater-brunel.me.uk/screenshots/double-fairlie-col-stephens.png)
Here we see the "Double Fairlie" as originally drawn by The Hood, adapted to show a superheated version as it might have been built (based on the Ffestiniog Railway's "Earl of Merioneth", which was actually built in 1979, but might have been built that way at any time after the widespread introduction of superheating in the 1910s) and a rake of the bogie carriages in the cheerful "Col. Stephens" livery of the 1920s and 1930s.
(http://www.bridgewater-brunel.me.uk/screenshots/george-england-slate.png)
Here is the venerable "George England" locomotive, now in the green "Col. Stephens" livery, hauling a rake of goods wagons. These are the long goods wagons in the game, but the graphics are based on the ubiquitous slate wagons for which traffic the Ffestiniog Railway was first built in 1836 (at the time with horse traction only). Slate is not an industry type in the pakset, so for the present these wagons will have to carry steel and wood.
(http://www.bridgewater-brunel.me.uk/screenshots/double-fairlie-nwng.png)
Here is the "Double Fairlie" (this time, the original version drawn by The Hood, in its late 19th century light red livery) hauling a rake of 1890s open carriages (open interiors, that is, not roofless) from the North Wales Narrow Gauge Railway that in the 1920s merged with the Ffestiniog to create the original and financially unsuccessful Welsh Highland Railway. One of these carriages is a buffet car - the world's first narrow gauge buffet car - which can be identified by the white sign board at the top of the centre of the carriage.
(http://www.bridgewater-brunel.me.uk/screenshots/double-headed-mixed.png)
Here is a double headed train (Single Fairlie and George England engines) hauling a rake of various bogie carriages in the attractive green and cream livery of the Ffestiniog Railway in the 1950s, when it was first re-opened in preservation.
(http://www.bridgewater-brunel.me.uk/screenshots/garrett-k1-goods.png)
This is a Garrett K-1 class locomotive - the first Garrett type locomotive anywhere in the world. This locomotive was built in the UK for Tasmania in 1909, where it spent its working life before being rescued by the Ffestiniog railway; it spent many years as a static exhibit in the National Railway Museum before being restored to working order for use on the re-opened Welsh Highland Railway. This powerful locomotive is shown here hauling some later bogie goods wagons, and might well be useful at hauling heavier loads on narrow gauge railways.
(http://www.bridgewater-brunel.me.uk/screenshots/hibberd-planet-mixed.png)
Diesel comes to narrow gauge railways in 1958 with this set of vehicles with this version of the Hibberd Planet locomotive as operates on the Ffestiniog, seen here with a mixed train.
(http://www.bridgewater-brunel.me.uk/screenshots/funkey-sar-wagons.png)
This powerful diesel is the "Funkey" B-B type from South Africa, introduced in 1968, two of which currently operate on the Ffestiniog/Welsh Highland railways (although one of which has been extensively rebuilt to fit into the Ffestiniog's restrictive loading gauge). It is seen with a rake of large South African Railway bogie wagons, a number of which have also been imported to Wales for use on the W. H. R.. These later type wagons offer improved capacity and speed compared to the earlier bogie wagons, and do not require a brake van.
(http://www.bridgewater-brunel.me.uk/screenshots/bagguely-drewery-barns.png)
This is the more recent (1985) and more economical diesel, the Bagguely-Drewery 0-6-0 locomotive, built from 1985 onwards, two of which are in use on the Ffestiniog at present. It is seen hauling a rake of "Barn" carriages, based on the original carriages drawn by The Hood (see earlier in this thread), but shortened slightly to match their correct lengths, and with buffers and red buffer beams removed (narrow gauge vehicles do not generally use buffers; certainly not on the Ffestiniog). These carriages are shown in the 1970s/1980s "cherry red" livery, and include the basic carriage, a brake carriage, a mail carriage and a buffet.
(http://www.bridgewater-brunel.me.uk/screenshots/garrett-ngg16-superbarn.png)
Last but not least, here is the South African Railways Garrett class NG-G16 of 1936 (which was nearly identical to the earlier NG-G13 of 1927, which earlier date is the introduction date that I have set for this vehicle), hauling some of the modern Welsh Highland Railway's "superbarn" carriages (the rear carriage being the "service carriage", containing catering, lavatory and brake facilities). Although this combination can regularly be seen on the modern Welsh Highland Railway, it is likely that players will find the Garrett more useful for hauling heavy goods trains in the 1920s-1960s, and have switched to diesel from the 1960s onwards, as, in Simutrans, there is no tourist traffic of the sort generated by steam operation on tourist lines; I thought that people might appreciate this screenshot, however.
All of these vehicles (in more livery schemes than shown here) will be available in the next released version of Pak128.Britain-Ex.
Spectacular! :)
Giuseppe
Perfectly splendid! Looks like we need some more properly sized platforms, though....
finally, an excellent selection of narrow gauge vehicles to choose from :)
Depending on how the costs are balanced out, I think they would be the go to for loose bulk freight.
Cool.
Some new modells for Simutrans.
That like i. 8) 8) 8)
Quote from: wlindley on August 13, 2012, 11:50:15 AM
Perfectly splendid! Looks like we need some more properly sized platforms, though....
Are you volunteering...? ;-)
These are fantastic! They are now in standard SVN.
Splendid!
Quote from: wlindley on August 13, 2012, 11:50:15 AM
Perfectly splendid! Looks like we need some more properly sized platforms, though....
Like these?
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6263/ngstations.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/ngstations.jpg/)
Joy!
Those Station looks good.
The Stations are in SVN.
Cam those Stations in Pak128 britain exp too?
I'm pretty sure they will - give Jamespetts time! It's only been a few hours...
Ok!
Than will i look on Sunday whether the github be updatet it.
The Hood what for Operating System have your Computer?
The new stations look good :D . I do have one question though; do the new NG platforms and buildings align correctly when built next to the Standard-Gauge ones. I.e. for mixed-gauge stations. Or have the buildings actually got smaller?
They are lower but not smaller. The roof however is the same height as standard gauge.
I've just gotten around to playing with the latest release and I think I see one potential problem with the narrow gauge as it is now.
The platform capacity and carriage capacity are poorly matched. Particularly for freight.
Starting off in 1920, the 2t bulk wagon only has 1/5 the capacity of the standard gauge 10t bulk wagon, yet the platforms offer the same capacity (and cost) of 32 pieces of freight. The narrow gauge freight trains end up at around 1/4 the capacity for the same station length. Narrow gauge passenger trains are around 2/3 to 3/4 the capacity of standard gauge for the same station length.
I think narrow gauge freight stations could be 1/4 of what they are now. 8, 16 and 32
Narrow gauge passenger stations could be 1/2. 16, 32 and 64.
I don't think there's a way to change this in standard?
I recall there being something about station levels in standard. Is 32 the lowest it will go?
I shall bear this in mind for Experimental, where station capacities can be varied individually. I cannot remember off the top of my head whether the minimum amount in Standard is 32 or 16, however. I do know that the vehicle capacities are based on their real life counterparts.
What do you suggest for revised station capacities for Experimental at least?
level=1 means capacity=32 IIRC
@james
For experimental, I would probably start off with 1/2 capacity, cost and maintenance for freight, but I don't think the passenger platforms need tweaking. Especially so, because I thought you had reduced platform capacity already so that station extensions would get more use?