(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_Maglev.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/Maglev.png)
3 sets
1st: single deck, but with two different head units.
2nd set: Double decker, since presumably, there will be a new loading gauge if the maglevs require a completely new rail network.
Both passenger versions are 25m long and 3m wide. Single deck is 3.1m tall, double deck is 4.7m tall.
3rd set: freight version capable of carrying 2x 20ft containers, or 1x 45ft container. Enclosed version for loose bulk freight. Unlikely to see a double stack container carrying flatbed/well car since that would make it extremely tall, around 6m tall and I'm unsure as to how much weight maglev can handle. Still haven't made a head/tail unit for this one. Maglev is certainly capable of freight transportation if the network is built to a new loading gauge.
added windows and doors.
testing out livery.
made ground level track.
same image, just one with shadows and one without.
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_Maglev3.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/Maglev3.png)
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_Maglev2.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/Maglev2.png)
Looking promising. I do like the way the maglev trains have British-style yellow cab ends. I'd say the no shadow version is more like what we are aiming for in pak128.Britain style, although it's difficult to tell without an in-game screenshot. The liveries look good too, but possibly they look too much like existing train company liveries (Virgin, First and Eurostar). It might be better to make fictitious liveries up, but in a similar style (e.g. silver and blue, red and gold, green and gold, or whatever else looks good), but that's a minor point.
As for freight transportation, I'd make a mail, piece and cooled variant, but no bulk/long/livestock/fluids as they just wouldn't need the speed/expense of maglev transport and would stick with roads/conventional rail (a bit like with planes).
thanks for the feedback.
freight:
I was thinking the same thing about freight. Only mail, piece and refrigerated goods. Thought about having a vehicle carrier too, but that would be for when I have a car modelled in sketchup.
Should mail be done with a converted passenger carriage or have its own dedicated freight wagon?
current intention is to make all cars DMU or EMU with freight requiring two head units at each end for a guessed use of ETCS computer driver and brake van.
Liveries:
Do you have any pictures for inspiration? :)
I tried a few different schemes before trying Virgin, First and Eurostar, but they all ended up looking like either the bullet train, ICE3 or transrapid trains.
added:
bulk heads for 2x 1 TEU flatcar
2.25 TEU flatbed car
empty flatbed car
freight head/tail unit
elevated ways
bridge
signals (would be too fast for conventional visual signalling. Maybe something easy to differentiate for the player?)
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_Maglev5.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/Maglev5.png)
I'd do mail looking like a passenger carriage but with no windows. I'd also be tempted to do freight that way rather than as containers, as the sort of freight maglev would attract would be low volume high value (think DHL/FedEx) rather than containerised.
Liveries: I would try using the schemes you have and just changing one of the colours so they are less obviously the corporate schemes. So replace red with blue or green on the virgin one, replace blue with red/green on the first one, and maybe replace white with black on the eurostar. Just see what looks good.
Signals: Yes it's true that conventional signalling would never work on maglev systems (even high speed lines require in cab signalling). However I think signals need to be able to display to the player what aspect they are.
, e.g. they do need to be visual. They would probably need to look like conventional light signals as for railways, even though that's not what they would look like in real life.
Loving the new graphics. I agree that there probably doesn't need to be a bulk transporter on the maglev rail; especially since it would neccesarily be uneconomical with the appropriate speed bonuses. Are you planning on restricting the layout/length of the trainset; I think that maglev trains would probably have a fully distributed drive system and allow for crazy length trains in theory.
Here's to my future 400kph double decker 20 carriage train. TGV eat your heart out :-D
These look very promising! But, hmm, if we're having Maglev, perhaps some thought should be given to futuristic vehicles of other types, too, to keep things going until 2050 or so...? 1750-2050 would be 300 years of Pak128.Britain wonderfulness!
@Hood
gotcha, I'll try them in different colours but same scheme.
For freight cars, there's also the red/blue car, which is a full cowl, streamlined carriage for various freight needing high speed that can also fit the containers. Of course, the doors on it would have to be transparent to see anything inside it. The open top flatbed cars, I was thinking for a slower speed.
I'll probably need some inspiration for slightly futuristic looking signals. For now at least, there is the arrow signals on the track.
@macpau
hmm, I was thinking of just making it possible for any length, but require both head units. which would be consistent with the other EMU/DMU trains in pakbritain. It'll be interesting to see what the dat files will limit me to.
@james
actually, I also made a futuristic airplane addon in pak128, but made it to 192 pixel size, so it looks ok in pakbritain as well, minus the colour.
new liveries, one new cooled car, that I don't think turned out too well.
duplex is imitation A4 aero scheme
royal post colour scheme for mail train, maybe make doors wider on it.
top left corner is example of signals.
might need a new texture for the concrete rail sections.
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_Maglev7.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/Maglev7.png)
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_Maglev8.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/Maglev8.png)
Yes, those new liveries are great. For the duplex though, give it yellow cab ends again, and make the back the same as the front. Nice idea about imitating the LNER A4 though! Mail train doors probably should be a bit wider as you say.
I like your idea for signals, but as with everything, we need to see it in game before we can make a final decision. I think it looks nice and futuristic in that style, but I'm just worried they won't look great on slopes. Maybe we'll just have to live with that! Maybe you should spend some time getting it all in game (and I'll warn you getting the tracks and bridges right in the game will take some time) and seeing how it looks there before going back and making refinements?
Stations: We'll need some of those, and probably in a nice shiny modern look. I could probably adapt some of the existing ones for a consistent look, but I'd need the tracks and trains ready first. A depot is even more crucial though (no depot = no trains!). Maybe just recode the existing rail ones as maglev ones for starters though?
Convoy lengths: I reckon the best solution is like for current IC125s: require an end unit at each end with unlimited carriages in between. AFAIK maglevs are essentially powered by magnets in the track and train rather than motors, so each car should be a "power" car (if one car didn't have magnets, it would fall back onto the track surely?). This should mean no difference in acceleration with more cars, which would be analogous to fully distributed drive systems on conventional trains.
@jamespetts:
It's always been the plan for pak128.Britain to go to 2050 so of course we will eventually need futuristic vehicles in all other modes (see the todo list). I'd left maglevs and future transport well down the list to concentrate on getting 1750-2010 sorted first (no mean task!), but if other people are doing stuff on my to-do list of sufficient quality and in style then I'll include it as soon as it's ready.
Just an idea.... if it's supposed to be so fast, maybe the container cars could have some kind of cover? Containers sure don't feel very aerodynamic :P
As a quick question is the stepped bit on the front of the double leveled train intended?
How optimistic are you going to be about the future of Britains rail transport, devolpment wise, because lets be honest we're not likely to be rolling (ed:floating?) out our own maglev any time soon ;-). What kind of introduction dates would you be looking at i.e 2030's-2040's?
For freight I think the containers should be dropped in favour or something that looks like the post train but in a different livery. I still can't imagine containers on maglevs, but even if they were some streamlined casing would be a good idea.
I'd be 95% certain there won't be any Maglev's in Britain before 2030 (especially as we seem to be going down the High Speed Rail route and Maglev options were rejected in 2007), but this is a game and the fun part is making your own decisions rather than letting the government make them for you! After all in the current pak you can already use the BR 8XP and the APT much more than it ever got used in real life. I'd allow maglevs like this one in pak128.Britain from 2004 (i.e. when the Chinese built their Transrapid link, which is probably the closest parallel). We could also allow a more basic magev from 1984, as there was one between Birmingham International and Birmingham airport for about 10 years (distance 600m, top speed 26mph!).
@The Hood
The stations currently in pakbritain should work, when making the maglev doors, I took into consideration the tall platform heights and used those numbers as a guideline.
@VS
there are streamlined freight cars in there, just has some transparent textures on it so you can see inside, for now, but I painted one in plain colour as well.
@TheMacpau
Yes, the double deck is intended to have a stepped section. Intended as an observation deck on one floor and driver in the other.
@The Hood
I based my maglev ideas on Inductrack, which has type 1 that is better suited for high speed and type 2 that is better suited for slow and heavy. There are plans in parts of USA for a shore to sorting yard maglev 'conveyor belt' sort of system. I also hear that a few middle east countries were more interested in the freight variant of Transrapid for a high speed ore/gem rock transporter.
I wasn't sure which head unit you meant, so I put yellow on both.
added:
two different tunnels, one conventional circular, one hexagonal.
details- supports on tracks
T-column, upside down V-column and I-column for elevated ways so they don't look like they interfere with roads or rails underneath.
computer operated head unit (for slower containers)
changed:
slightly tweaked painting lines so the look smoother, less angular and jagged.
doors 50% wider on mail train
changed colour of freight trains to dark slate/goldish
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_Maglev9.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/Maglev9.png)
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_Maglev10.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/Maglev10.png)
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_Maglev11.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/Maglev11.png)
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_Maglev12.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/Maglev12.png)
as for the operating speeds, general guess
1st gen passenger: 480 to 540km/h
2nd gen passenger: 680 to 720km/h
high speed Freight with fairings: 320km/h
slow freight: 160km/h (just slightly faster than rail)
theoretical maximum is 1150km/h, but there would be a lot of noise complaints at those speeds.
I'd suggest you'd better stick to the lower end of the speeds, surely you want to leave some space for air travel to compete. High speed rails is currently competitive in the 2-3 hour travel zone; but pushing to 540-720kph would nullify ones airports. Unless thats what we are intending for the game.
Are you thinking two types of track like the maglev in 128 or one type with different rolling(ed:floating) stock.
ps. love the british racing green tone you use there
pps. is rolling out and rolling stock still the correct term for a vehicle without wheels? answers on a postcard.
thanks for feedback.
@TheMacpau
the tracks plans would be:
ground level track
elevated track (for diagonal, perpendicular or parallel crossing on rail)
elevated track (for perpendicular or diagonal crossing of roads)
bridge
tunnel
with various 'electrification?' magnetization types that will govern speeds.
when talking about pak128, do you mean the monorail it has? as far as I'm aware, it's just that one track is elevated and one is not.
or do you mean something like this: http://boeblingen.wordpress.com/2008/05/20/iat-team-modellkonzept-doppelstockige-magnetbahn/
with two levels on the same track? the latter is possible to draw, but there will be no double deck and I'm unsure if simutrans allows two separate tracks with the same way type on a single tile.
maybe for a commuter style maglev, monorail can be used?
Maglev will certainly replace air travel, but the current limitations that keep an extensive maglev network from replacing existing airports are land rights, construction costs and noise pollution of having a high speed train operate in an urban environment.
In game terms Airports and airplanes still make sense because there's no need for an expensive bridge or tunnel.
airplanes are still faster, the modern commercial airliners go at around 950km/h. and there are future concept jets that can take you anywhere in the world in 30mins, which is supposed to be around 4250~7160km/h.
Thats a good point but there is going to be a tricky balance between the (usually) suburbian airport and the (usually) central train station if you upgrade your rail to maglev. carefull balancing might be requred to leave a niche for both. While accepting your comments on tunnels and bridges, I know I'm prone to doing some serious earth moving in game to avoid such projects. I guess the killer will be the capacity, will they compete with the mass transit of A380 type planes? or be more like executive jets in capacity. As for the pak128 I was referring to the gauthier(sp) addon for maglev where he uses 3 types of track in the same way that there are different speeds of regular track.
I don't think that multiple electrification types are necessary, and might add unnecessary complexity. I suggest simply having two grades of track: low speed (for the airport type systems) and high speed (for the high-speed links).
@TheMacpau
I'll have to find that addon, should be inspirational.
I would guess the maglevs will replace domestic flights almost entirely once a complete network is built and will replace most EU region flights once an EU network is built. Much like the opening of the Chunnel effectively ended the SR.N4 hovercraft's life in 2000.
@james
that can be done as well
I was thinking about the amount of icons that would dominate the construction panel when having 2 full sets of railways.
Perhaps the first generation would not be fast enough to compete with aircraft except for shorter distances, but the second generation would be?
Quote from: The Hood on February 02, 2010, 10:40:07 AM
For freight I think the containers should be dropped in favour or something that looks like the post train but in a different livery. I still can't imagine containers on maglevs, but even if they were some streamlined casing would be a good idea.
I'd be 95% certain there won't be any Maglev's in Britain before 2030 (especially as we seem to be going down the High Speed Rail route and Maglev options were rejected in 2007), but this is a game and the fun part is making your own decisions rather than letting the government make them for you! After all in the current pak you can already use the BR 8XP and the APT much more than it ever got used in real life. I'd allow maglevs like this one in pak128.Britain from 2004 (i.e. when the Chinese built their Transrapid link, which is probably the closest parallel). We could also allow a more basic magev from 1984, as there was one between Birmingham International and Birmingham airport for about 10 years (distance 600m, top speed 26mph!).
yep the only first maglev i remember at birmingham airport (latter replaced with cable train)
Quote from: AEO on February 02, 2010, 11:55:32 PM
I'll have to find that addon, should be inspirational.
I would guess the maglevs will replace domestic flights almost entirely once a complete network is built and will replace most EU region flights once an EU network is built. Much like the opening of the Chunnel effectively ended the SR.N4 hovercraft's life in 2000.
the channel tunnel opened in 1995 that year the hovercrafts ended but still has hovercraft its at the port in dover had one (we didn't see the hovercraft) but its called hoverferry - i think wiki had link to that company but freight increased again because channel fire and problems in channel tunnel - only used normal ferry
@rsdworker
that part wasn't on wiki ;)
still, I read that cross-channel freight ships declined in numbers thanks to the chunnel.
one final bit before I start making all the renders to test them out in-game.
added:
track end piece
restaurant/buffet car for each set
depot.
changed:
colour sorted open car freight, no double stack
matched colour of freight cars with fairing of head unit.
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_Maglev13.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/Maglev13.png)
Excellent progress, can't wait for some in-game tests! I propose the following scheme for tracks (not trying to shut down discussion here, but given my experience of developing the pak this is how I see it fitting in best):
1st generation (1984 onwards): Max speed 100km/h. Ignore this for now if you want.
2nd generation (2004 onwards): Max speed 450km/h.
3rd generation (2030 onwards): Max speed 600km/h. Again ignore for now if you want.
Code all of these as tracks, and do not include electrification - the simpler the better (fewer icons and fewer confused players). Code all trains as battery powered (i.e. will run without electrification).
The high speeds will allow an improvement on conventional high speed rail and competition with short-medium air traffic.
Capacities should be comparable to, but slightly higher than trains of a similar length as the cars should be wider (and the duplex even more so). This ought to make a long duplex train hold ~1000 people. Maglevs really only ought to be viable on very large passenger flows with an intense service in the game (construction costs will be high too). Commuter maglevs would broadly fit into the same scheme given the rapid acceleration of maglev trains, although a slightly cheaper 300kmh track may also be an option for later.
I know this doesn't capture all the complexities of different types of maglev systems and every nuance of speed restrictions, but we need to start simple and I think a scheme like this will fit best with the game balance. There will still be a place for conventional rail to 2050 (both suburban and high speed) so we need to make sure that maglev doesn't end up being too similar. There are also plans to use the monorail type for low-speed urban mass transit monorail systems.
I think they use "hydrogen" aka fuel cell as a type of power unit in pak128 along with steam and diesel so it could be an idea to use that, it would fit with the futuristic concept better than a classical battery imho.
Alternatively you could have 600kph tracks released from 1984 but only have 100kph "electrification" until 2004 and then only 450kph till 2030. This would save on making multiple track types and might make the gameplay better if your using raised track since I dread upgrading a fully kitted network if I can't just overlay new track and I could upgrade by replacing the magnets/electrification system.
@hood how would you suggest preventing maglev from wiping out long distance air/all air? or do you think that's a long term inevitability that should be part of the game. (I guess long distance depends on the map size you play somewhat)
1) hydrogen is no better than battery, it makes no difference as neither is correct for a maglev train, and it makes no difference to the game engine, so I don't think it matters which is used.
2) It is possible to replace one track type with a faster track type by overlaying already. Electrification adds complexity and isn't necessary, so I prefer the battery/hydrogen approach. Especially as laying track is one click, track + electrification is two; and electrification requires extra buttons too...
3) Construction cost would be a big factor. Airports are already established. Maglevs would be competetive to run, but very costly to build. They would also probably be marginally slower, and obviously require lots of land take to build which air doesn't require except at airports. It would be a player choice decision...
1)Fair point on the first I was just commenting on the name battery just sounds incongruous, a very minor issue.
2) is that true for elevated track, which was my point, because I know it's not true for bridges and tunnels.
3) is a fair point that I accept. :-)
There is always the possibility of hijacking either "hydrogen" or "battery" (preferably battery, as there have been no commercially successful battery operated transport vehicles in the UK apart from milk floats of which I am aware) and changing the name in the translation texts to "maglev". How is this done in Pak128, anyway?
As to costs: the construction costs should be very, very high (for the higher speed lines especially), but the running costs should be extremely low, as there are no moving parts: this is one of the key attractions of the low-speed maglevs. The vehicle purchase costs should not be too high, either, since maglev vehicles are essentially quite simple.
Good idea about renaming battery as maglev. Hydrogen fuel cell is already in use for one of the buses I think.
@TheMacpau, I'm not sure about elevated tracks and bridges, but given 1st generation maglevs are barely going to be worth it in the game (replicating the fact that the Birmingham Maglev folded after 10 years), I don't think you'll have much to worry about in terms of replacing things.
James: Pak128 has schewebebahn instead of monorail, so it renames monorail to hanging rail (or some similar name). It works. You can use the trick safely, too :)
Edit: attached the file for upload to Translator.
ok, so going from the feedback, for the dat files it will be battery engine type for all cars.
introduction will be roughly...
2004: gen2: teal/grey passenger (450km/h)
2012: dark blue/beige passenger (520km/h), royal mail (450km/h) and streamlined freight (320km/h)
2016: economical open car freight (160km/h)
2021: Duplex passenger (560km/h)
ground level track construction costs around 4~8x of TGV tracks and elevated tracks around 5~10x the costs of TGV tracks, but similar maintenance costs.
cars themselves around 18,000~30,000 credits.
minimum length of cars for passenger variants, 3?
oh, and minor change, cars are slightly wider now. from 3m to 3.75m
Sounds good. Bear in mind current costs aren't fixed, but we can always modify dat files later. For the passenger trains, I'd code constraints so that you have to have at least 1 middle car, so minimum of three cars.
progress update:
all images are done in 256 tile size and needs to be scaled down
need to do dat files
need to make icons and cursors for all image sets
tracks are working.
still need to do dat files for depot, tunnel, stations, signals and freight trains (in particular the freight image associations), but all the passenger and mail are done.
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_simscr09.jpg) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/simscr09.jpg)
still needs lots of polishing, but otherwise, it looks like this in game
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_simscr00.jpg) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/simscr00.jpg)
Exciting developments! Couple of comments - not sure if they are covered by your "polishing" or not, but anyway...
1) Colours - liveries working well. The whiter tracks look a little too white though.
2) Scale - looks a little small to me. Lengthwise each car is good, but I'd probably make them all wider and taller. Tracks also could do with being wider I think. (Should be obviously bigger than the IC125 you have for comparison)
3) Some of the tracks and the depot in the second screenshot seem to have white "halos" around them in places which need removing/cleaning.
I know some of those changes might take a fair bit of work (I always find tidying images up takes as long if not longer than doing the image in the first place!), but I think these would make a world of a difference - and would be well worth it.
Looking forward to more developments/improvements!
okay, will do.
I'll make them 1.6x wider and 1.25x taller compared to the original files.
I'll also make some changes to the freight cars.
Quote from: AEO on February 06, 2010, 06:14:21 AM(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_simscr00.jpg) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/simscr00.jpg)
Something weird going on with the train which is cornering (top left)?
@AEO,
Sounds good
@AP,
Not necessarily - the two vehicles are longer than 1/2 a tile so it is possible if the shot is taken in a very specific window...
I believe it's just the game engine displaying things incorrectly because there needs to be an offset for elevated ways.
reworked the 3d to make it wider.
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_Maglevv3.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/Maglevv3.png)
I assume that is 128x128 - in which case it looks much better. I'll reserve judgement until I can see it in game next to some existing vehicles though.
yep, it should be close to 128 tile size.
I've done up to the rendering it in 256 tile size now, so half way there to get some in-game images.
the white track, I think, still looks a tad bit too bright.
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/th_simscrmag.jpg) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simscrmag.jpg)
Depot looks very strange. I understand you try to find british shape for this but current shape is too far from it. It is very fantastic. When I take as grant british pak is dark (for it I transferred only one building and two freight waggons to my game - based on original set) then this does not fit with it. Regardless of it should look futuristic, I would like to offer something what could be close to depot for railway.
White track is better than dark - but I would like to offer using version with dark edges (like it is in this post (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=4345.msg42736#msg42736)).
For trains I say this: I don't have any complaint against blue end cars of duplex train - but I think better colour connection between end cars and middle cars could be better.
That scale is definitely much better. Trains are looking good too - not much work needed there, although I agree with VaclavMacurek that the transition between the all-blue and the blue and white cars on the duplex maybe is a bit sudden? Probably not a priority though, and that's just aesthetic preference anyway.
The white tracks are definitely too bright - I assume the grey tracks are a different speed? Even so, two shades of grey should do the trick.
Depot - again too bright, and it needs textures. I'm not 100% sure about the style, but it is futuristic and it is growing on me.
Bridges - supports aren't quite tall enough for a single-height level: if you look at the double height bridge you can see a couple of pixel gap.
Elevated ways: I think the spacing of the two-pillar variant should be wider so that the pillars don't appear to obstruct the road.
All in all though, this is coming on nicely :)
dark edges on tracks:
when doing dark edges, there will be a lot of graphical errors at the joints if I painted the top parts to look like a regular track with all the switches.
elevated way supports:
two pillar variants. one looks fine with road, one is supposed to look fine with rails, although I'm quickly finding that this doesn't seem to be the case. I'll have to use the outer corners if that's the case.
too white:
the good thing about having something too white is that it's pretty easy to fix by just adding some filters.
depot:
it was actually supposed to become a platform, but I gave up on that.
I figured... "what's slightly futuristic? honeycombs or composite FRP. I'll make it a honeycomb pattern."
bridge support gap:
yup, I noticed that too. that should be easy to fix.
colour transition for duplex:
well, it was supposed to be an homage for the Silver Jubilee, but I guess it could use a better colour transition. I realized you can call this the Platinum Jubilee.
anyone notice the menu bar icons?
I noticed them - they're good, although the text descriptions are non-standard. I see why you've added them, though, as the objects themselves look fairly nondescript (that is not a criticism, of course - that's just what Maglev looks like). The Hood - what do you think about the text?
how's this for the front end of the duplex?
colours can be changed.
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/th_Maglev3dd.jpg) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/Maglev3dd.jpg)
@james
how about an arrow pointing upwards for elevated ways and arrows pointing in left and right for bridges?
Buttons are great as they are (although I was too busy looking at the nice trains too notice first time around!). I may do something similar with existing bridges/elevated ways as it is a bit confusing at the minute.
That new duplex front end looks much better.
Now it looks very nice - much better than before. Gold colour makes it magic :) - I vote for version in the front.
freight trains.
twice the capacity (and size to match) of the last goods/cooled freight wagons you can get in rail depot.
I'm pretty sure I need to work on the offsets a bit.
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_simscr01.jpg) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/simscr01.jpg)
Getting better and better! There are also a few graphical glitches on the tracks I can see there - looks like each track section is a pixel short or something.
I quite like those - makes it look like it's been assembled in prefabricated sections, with those being the expansion joints. Gives it scale.
I think that sectioned looks are due to incorrectly rendered edges.
as far as I've seen, the joints are quite apparent in maglev tracks, even when viewed from afar.
the odd part is I made the tracks overshoot the tile by a small margin in 3D because I know the overlap/zooming issue, but I guess it wasn't enough after cleaning up the edges.
update.
changes:
wider column width on elevated white tracks
toned down the brightness of the white concrete, turned up texture size so you can actually see textures in the game.
fixed column height for bridge
the gaps or indents on the diagonals are there on purpose because they'll protrude on a diagonal to straight if the ends are to be flush with diagonal to diagonal (it's a compromise).
as you can probably see, the elevated track columns don't extend down far enough for a "proper looking" double stack. if they did, they'll look weird on the ground (again, compromise)
I have no idea why the head unit on the freight train has that gap. sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not, oddity. I also have no idea what the internal names are for the piece goods and cooled goods, but there are several loaded cargo container images to choose from, and they can be flipped backwards for double the amount.
completed the on-track signals. They should be pretty clear as to which one is what, otherwise I fail my mission in making simple signals. I think They might need a few more pixels as I think it's a bit hard to see what they are when zoomed out. :p
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_simscr02.jpg) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/simscr02.jpg)
icons for track signals are a on this shot, hasn't changed http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simscrmag.jpg
Excellent - I appreciate there are a number of compromises you have to make with track - they already happen in the rail and tram tracks. I agree with you on the signals - they could be a bit larger, and can I also just double check you are using the special colours for them (so they stay bright at night)?
For internal names of piece goods and cool goods - look at this file:
http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128.Britain/goods/goods-128.dat?revision=250&view=markup
For vehicle dats you can just reference a good of that category and it will work for goods of the same category too, e.g. Freight="Bucher" works for books, but also vegetables, china, beer, etc etc
For the freight train with gap, have you specified a length= parameter in each vehicle? Playing around with that should help. 1 tile is equivalent to length=16.
Finally, the new duplex is fantastic! Looking forward to getting my hands on the sources so I can include in a future release of pak128.Britain, but I'm guessing before then we need work on the depot and on stations (I can help with both if you want, to keep them consistent with existing ones I can adapt my blender models).
@The Hood
I appreciate the goods list, I'll put in the additional parameters in the dat files for the various freight types.
As to the gaps, yes, the freight train does have the proper length specified in them. After doing some math, 1 tile = 28.6m, wagons are 28.8m, or 16 and the heads are 17m, or 9.5 (I used 10) and it gives some odd graphical behaviour. I'll probably have to play around with offsets a bit.
the signals use special colours, yes.
OK there may be 2 reasons for the graphical bug:
1) Check the alignment of the png. If it's always the same rotations causing the problems, this is almost certainly the problem. You probably lined up the vehicle incorrectly (you could either change the png or mess around with offsets in the dat)
2) If (1) doesn't solve it, it smells like a code bug, although I'm not sure if I remember from the past that length=16 caused problems sometimes. Maybe one of the coders could help throw some light on this?
@hood
I think the problem stems from just having bad alignment (even though I did it the way the how-to tells you to)
I managed to fix it with offsets, thanks for your help.
touched up all the stray pixels and I think it's pretty much complete, unless you notice anything glaringly wrong.
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_simscr03.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/simscr03.png)
The only glaringly obvious thing is the signals are shining through the trains...
Other than that, as I said I don't feel the depot is quite there, and we need stations. If you send me the sources, I can have a go at those next week.
the signals shining through is a game engine problem, as far as I've read.
here are the sources.
http://files.[ simutrans [dot] us (site down, do not visit) ]/files/get/l7_3UhmQ3i/maglev.rar
Cool. Tunnels would also be good too. Are you planning on doing these?
the funny thing, I did make tunnels, but for some reason they (dat files) never worked.
I just assumed that it wasn't possible to do underground maglev.
Quote from: AEO on February 12, 2010, 07:58:58 PM
the funny thing, I did make tunnels, but for some reason they (dat files) never worked.
I just assumed that it wasn't possible to do underground maglev.
a underground maglevs would be cool
Quote from: AEO on February 12, 2010, 07:58:58 PM
the funny thing, I did make tunnels, but for some reason they (dat files) never worked.
I just assumed that it wasn't possible to do underground maglev.
Underground maglev is not possible?
Do you think trains here - or tracks and stations?
I mean in-game. I could not get maglev tunnels to work through a dat file I modified.
for some reason just changing another tunnel and the images to
waytype=maglev_track
system_type=64
did not work.
I'll work on the graphics, I just need to modify the originals I've made before and make them slightly wider.
the future of maglev is underground and underwater vacuum tunnels, definitely.
This is important part of dat of my maglev tunnels - and it runs OK. I am not sure but I think that your problem is in system_type=64 (regardless of I don't know what this number means).
Obj=tunnel
name=Tunel550
waytype=maglev_track
copyright=VaclavMacurek
intro_year=2005
intro_month=1
cost=1100000
maintenance=5500
topspeed=550
icon=> Tunel550.1.3
cursor=Tunel550.0.3
... and (other) picture related dats
ah, I now realize my mistake, thank you Vaclav.
got it working.
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_simscr00-1.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/simscr00-1.png)
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_maglev-tunnel-eco.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/maglev-tunnel-eco.png)
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_maglev-tunnel-std.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/maglev-tunnel-std.png)
They looks great (and thanks for good idea :)) - but I am worried about this: trains will be invisible for short while between coming on this tile and real missing in tunnel (or appearing on surface). ???
hmm, I guess one could pack the wall with some concrete.
personally, I like how the first one came out, but I think the second one needs more refinement.
Quote from: VaclavMacurek on February 13, 2010, 05:55:09 AM
They looks great (and thanks for good idea :)) - but I am worried about this: trains will be invisible for short while between coming on this tile and real missing in tunnel (or appearing on surface). ???
.. this is how the engine works. To overcome this, move the tunnel entry forward one half tile.
That is why the existing pak128.Britain tunnels are all box tunnels - a similar design would probably be best.
ok, I modified the tunnels a bit, made them open up at the half tile point.
If I was to do box tunnels, I would just modify the existing tunnels in pak128 britain so that they have maglev tracks.
which one would be good? shadows/no shadows?
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_tunnel-std.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/tunnel-std.png)
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_tunnel-eco.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/tunnel-eco.png)
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_tunnel-adv.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/tunnel-adv.png)
Just a speculation, but the effect might be even worse with vehicles longer than half a tile (which the maglev is).
I've had a go with the current pak128.Britain tunnels and new maglev track and this is the result. Personally I prefer this - it is more consistent with the rest of the pak and the duplex still fits in the tunnel :)
I've also put a vertical offset of 3 pixels on the maglev trains, as I tried out some with existing stations, and they were too low to the ground. Hopefully this looks OK.
New buildings, new trains, ...it just keeps getting better!
Any chance of a preview maglev .pak ?
You can download AEO's original sources a few posts up. There's a bit of tidying up to do before things make it into SVN, but it will be in the next official release.
The Hood: Thanks for your screenshots. I was not worried about duplex can fit into tunnel - but still I am worried about it doesn't fit to depot.
AEO: As I see on screenshot by The Hood, duplex's front car needs improving shade - it is a little darker than middle cars and also it does not fit so well on track like those ones - because a little higher layer of air is between track and car.
Thanks, missed that. Looks great in-game!
Bug: The .dat references RMU_boxcars.png but the file name is RMU_Boxcars.png (capitalization is important except on Windows).
@vaclav
hmm, that's odd, because they were all redone in the same render.
@hood, looks good.
I can't see a problem with the duplex either. There are a few issues with the tracks especially where there are connections between normal track and bridges - I've had a go at fixing them but it still needs more work.
For the depot, I think for consistency it's probably best if I adapt one of the existing train depots and make one that fits duplex maglevs in.
@hood
I think it's the graphics engine itself that causes those weird behaviours. It's just that the height of the tracks causes the problems to be more pronounced than road or rail images that sit lower.
I believe it happens on all slope to flat ground tiles, so that's tunnels and bridges.
Quote from: AEO on February 14, 2010, 05:05:41 PM
hmm, that's odd, because they were all redone in the same render.
I understand your complaint because it is clear also to me that when it is rendered from the same, it is very odd ... but it is as I wrote. I don't understand it too. ;)
I think you already did it but ... this is enlarged one of critical screenshot:
(http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4345.0;attach=11299;image)
aha, upon double checking, it would appear that I used the wrong colours on the head unit.
sharp eye you have there vaclav ;)
will make a fixed version soon.
fixed version:
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_Ultra520DD.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/Ultra520DD.png)
Still can't see the problem, but if it's fixed... ;)
About the track, it's impossible to prevent some glitches, but I think some tracks on the bridge were a few pixels short. I've made some improvements which should help at least. Also getting some odd behaviour with pillars, but not sure why I can't solve that one :(
@AEO,
Just want to check that you are happy to release your maglev stuff as part of pak128.Britain under the artistic license? I'm planning on doing the following before release, if that's OK with you (and you are not planning any more work on this yourself straight away):
- fix a couple of track alignment issues as best I can (I've already fixed a couple)
- adapt existing train or tram depot for use as a maglev depot in consistent pak128.Britain style
I'll also release with my box tunnel and kierongreen's station as per screenshots above, assuming no major objections to that, and no-one else has spotted anything critical which needs fixing from the test version.
I think the maglev is now ready to go in SVN shortly. Here's a final taster screenshot, showing the new goods platforms, depot and tunnel I have drawn to go with AEO's wonderful set. These should now make everything playable.
Looks very very good! Great work :)
Jolly impressive!
looks spiffy!
@hood
yep, no problem with license, copyright or objections on my part.
I love the Maglev. ;D But, I would like a more complete cargo set, like a tanker, car carrier, bulk goods car and live stock. if you could, it would be nice, but I don't need it.
Thanks
thanks for feedback werl.
currently there are no plans for bulk, long and fluid carriers, but there might be a car carrier. I'll see what The Hood has to say.
The current way I see it, is that by the time the freight maglev is introduced, all the goods requiring fast transport use airplanes. Maglev is the alternative to airplanes and when used, will free up the railways for slow and heavy goods like bulk, wood, steel and petrol fluids. The car carrier is a 'maybe' because, from what I understand, this pakset does take into account real world trends and there might be a reduced reliance on cars by 2012.
Quote from: AEO on February 27, 2010, 10:10:27 PM
...there might be a reduced reliance on cars by 2012.
That is in two years' time...
@james
I probably meant to say a reduced production rate.
actually, the biggest reason why I haven't done any car carriers for the maglev was because I haven't gotten around to modelling any cars and I was unsure of what sort of look a high speed car carrier would look like.
it certainly would have to be enclosed, might look a bit bland if all the panels were streamlined...
OK, just thought I would put it out there.
Still like the idea
Ps. love the Maglev set!! If there was a contest for design, you would get the :award:
As I've said before I don't think maglevs would ever be used for bulk or bulk fluid freights. The expense of constructing them far outweighs the benefits as these products are not time-critical. That is one reason that coal traffic is still mostly transported by rail in the UK but other loads are taken by road.
By all means make an add-on for download, but I probably won't include it in official releases.
ok, well since there is a desire for the remaining freight categories, I will work on them along with a few other maglev trains I have in the works.
Thanks a lot. I prefer the speed of the maglev over the rail. especially when traveling over long distances.
I have modified AEO's cars to make my own. If it's OK with AEO, I will post it for people to try.
As they are released under the open source license, there shouldn't be a problem if you release modifications as long as you credit AEO with his work...
What happened to the original tunnel designs? I really liked the original high speed maglev tunnel entry. I looked like the sort of thing we would make to try and minmise tunnelboom.
I adapted the pak128.Britain rail tunnels because:
1) graphical consistency
2) box tunnels work better with the simutrans graphics engine
My maglev car is available by e-mail only for now. If someone will post it on sourceforge and post a link in here, please do. but for now, use the e-mail for now.
If you want them, e-mail me atwerl2@me.com and I will send it to you as soon as possible.
Ps. you need the ALL the pak files included for it to work.
ah, you guys caught me before I had a chance to complete the images...
front to back, long goods, bulk goods, autorack, fluids, and more variations of containers.
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_maglev3extra.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/maglev3extra.png)
1000000 times beater than mine.
I'm probably going to be busy for the next month, so I can't work on the dat files and images, but here are the high quality image sources. They only need to be shrunk to 50% size to work with 128 tile size. feel free to use these for your pak files.
all the freight cars are the same length, except the blue/orange autorack. eurostar2 is longer than the other passenger trains.
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_RMU_hoppercars.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/RMU_hoppercars.png)(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_RMU_flatcars_tank.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/RMU_flatcars_tank.png)(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_RMU_flatcars_long.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/RMU_flatcars_long.png)
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_RMU_flatcars.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/RMU_flatcars.png)(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_RMU_boxcars_tank.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/RMU_boxcars_tank.png)(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_RMU_boxcars_long.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/RMU_boxcars_long.png)
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_RMU_boxcars_gondola.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/RMU_boxcars_gondola.png)(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_RMU_boxcars.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/RMU_boxcars.png)(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_RMU_boxcar_glass.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/RMU_boxcar_glass.png)
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_RMU_autorack_aero.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/RMU_autorack_aero.png)(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_RMU_autorack.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/RMU_autorack.png)(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/th_Eurostar2-256.png) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/AEObikes/simutrans/Eurostar2-256.png)
Thanks AEO, I will have my first release by the end of the week.
Like the cars.
I would just like to mention that there is a very light line, just off from the invisible colour around the maglev stuff. you will get a ring around it similar to the one in the picture below
(http://www3.telus.net/public/werl/simscr00.png)
ah, yes, when resizing, do 'nearest neighbour' or 'no smoothing'.
I'll probably get time to work on the images early next week.
What program do you use? I use Photo Shop.
in photoshop, open two copies of the image in the original size.
Magic wand must be set to 'tolerance: 0', uncheck 'antialias', and uncheck 'contiguous'.
1st copy: do background from layer, remove the background colour in the image (the 231,255,255 cyan) then do resize, 50%, bicubic.
2nd copy: do resize, 50%, nearest neighbour.
now copy the bicubic resized one over the nearest neighbour. Select the simutrans special colour with magic wand on the nearest neighbour layer, then select the bicubic layer and delete the excess spill over. Set the Bicubic layer on top of the nearest neighbour layer. Now flatten the image.
This should give sharp edges with no 'halo', yet have a smooth image for the rest.
I have finished the files. Please send any problems to werl2@me.com.
Here (http://www3.telus.net/public/werl/maglev.zip) is the link http://www3.telus.net/public/werl/maglev.zip
Update: version 1.2
Fix: "halo" around the tank in some views
here is my unofficial version.
http://files.[ simutrans [dot] us (site down, do not visit) ]/files/get/lfHPWKCFj_/britmaglevunofficialaddon.rar
I think I put the notes in the wrong place, should be in the main directory instead of the sources sub folder.
oh well :P
autoracks should be good for official.