As I have mentioned, I have been trying out the tutorial.
I think the structure of the tutorial would be very helpful for beginners. It's really great that you have done this, Yona.
However, there is one thing that I think could be added to the early chapters.
One of the best things about Simutrans is that you can follow the convoys around. I probably spend more time just watching my trains go along than doing anything else. It's so cool! 8)
As early as chapter 2 step 4 (at least in the English tutorial for pak128), players are creating convoys and waiting for them to arrive at stops. I think new players would really enjoy following convoys too.
So I suggest that that following convoys should be added to chapter 2. This would also require introducing the convoy window, so it might need a whole new step in the chapter.
There is a small problem: the follow convoy icon depends on the theme, not the pakset. So you cannot tell players "click on the eye" because although most themes use an eye, not all do. So I think you would have to say, "click on the fourth icon from the top left of the convoy window", or something similar.
Quote from: Matthew on May 17, 2024, 05:59:52 AMThere is a small problem: the follow convoy icon depends on the theme, not the pakset. So you cannot tell players "click on the eye" because although most themes use an eye, not all do. So I think you would have to say, "click on the fourth icon from the top left of the convoy window", or something similar.
Considering most players playing the tutorial will be, well, new players, we can expect they will be using the default theme.
If images could be inserted as in html it would be great, that would considerably improve the tutorial explanations.
I think this must be two additions, but I'm afraid it also means renaming the text files to add an extra step.
In Step D I would add: "Tip: To jump to the garage location press the sixth button located in the title bar (an eye), so you will see the vehicle leaving the garage."
The additional step will be to follow the vehicle, so this is where you would have to implement a new script function to know if the vehicle is being followed.
Edit.
https://github.com/simutrans/simutrans/pull/3
(Isaac is going to scold me for so many messages in a row). ;D
What do you think of this?.
<p>
<h1>Following Vehicles</h1>
This option allows you to follow the vehicles as they travel their route, no matter where they go or even if they go underground, it is activated from the vehicles window and is the fourth icon in the respective title bar (an eye).
</p>
<p>
To finish, click on the vehicle already in circulation so that the convoy window is displayed, look in the title bar of the vehicle window (eye icon) and press it to follow it.
</p>
<p>
<st>It takes to the next step</st> When you are following the vehicle.
</p>
Captura desde 2024-05-20 14-23-07.png
Edit:
By the way, does anyone know what the equivalent of [Ctrl + "] is in pak192.comic? .
[Cntrol]+["] is pakset and keyboard specific. Usually it is ["] only, depending where this is on your keyboard and how to enter.
Quote from: Yona-TYT on May 20, 2024, 06:33:37 PM(Isaac is going to scold me
Well, I snickered, but just a brief actual note: In addition to the reply-after-24-hours that makes a "doublepost" not count as such, the real concern was always wasting vertical thread space. So as long as a comment exceeds the height of the profile block on the left, it's also fine: https://i.imgur.com/LMsnFmV.png :)
So... WRONG. NO SCOLDING! 😈😆
Quote from: Yona-TYT on May 20, 2024, 06:33:37 PMWhat do you think of this?
I didn't imagine that you would implement new code so that this would be a real tutorial step, checking that the player has followed the instructions. So this is even better than I asked or imagined!
Here is a redraft of the text:
<p>
<h1>Following Convoys</h1>
This option allows you to follow vehicles as they travel their route, so that they remain in view no matter where they go, even if they go underground. It is activated from the Convoy Window and is the fourth icon in that Window's title bar (an eye).
</p>
<p>
Click on the vehicle already in circulation so that the Convoy Window is displayed. Look for the fourth icon in the title bar of the Convoy Window (eye icon) and press it to follow the convoy.
</p>
<p>
<st>The tutorial will move to the next step</st> when you are following the convoy.
</p>Most of the changes are tidying up the English in the hope of making it easier to read. But I have also changed "vehicles" to "convoy" in a few places. In this chapter, the convoy only has one vehicle, so you wrote vehicle correctly. But that isn't always true. In Simutrans, "convoy" has a special meaning and it's different from "vehicle". I think that part of the job of the tutorial is to introduce these words with special meanings, so that players can correctly understand the Help windows and the wiki.
We aren't just teaching players to play Simutrans, we are also teaching them Simutransese or Simutransish! ;D
QuoteEdit:
By the way, does anyone know what the equivalent of [Ctrl + "] is in pak192.comic? .
If you mean the tool that hides buildings, I think it's just ["]. IIRC I have already changed the p192c tutorial to say this.
Currently it is pak192.comic who is at the forefront with the last fixes of the tutorial, when I finish fixing and testing everything I proceed with the others.
https://github.com/simutrans/tutorial_pak192.comic/commit/aae4de73acb496382053858c95feded169847766
How do you think the eye icon change across different themes might affect new players' ability to follow along with the tutorial? Should there be an explanation about theme variations early on?
Quote from: lorde on February 12, 2025, 02:26:15 AMHow do you think the eye icon change across different themes might affect new players' ability to follow along with the tutorial? Should there be an explanation about theme variations early on?
There was a proposed patch to allow image tags in the scenario window, so an interesting solution would be to get the image from the active theme's gadgets, then the image would change depending on the theme used.
In fact, @prissi implemented such a mechanism for the schedule window years ago, with which he obtains the "X" icon that closes windows, but this is use it to delete waypoints.
However the patch was never finished and I highly doubt it will ever happen. :'(
See the discussion here: https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/topic,15049.0.html
Quote from: Matthew on May 17, 2024, 05:59:52 AMAs I have mentioned, I have been trying out the tutorial.
I think the structure of the tutorial would be very helpful for beginners. It's really great that you have done this, Yona.
However, there is one thing that I think could be added to the early chapters.
One of the best things about Simutrans is that you can follow the convoys around. I probably spend more time just watching my trains go along than doing anything else. It's so cool! 8)
As early as chapter 2 step 4 (at least in the English tutorial for pak128), players are creating convoys and waiting for them to arrive at stops. I think new players would really enjoy following convoys too.
So I suggest that that following convoys should be added to chapter 2. This would also require introducing the convoy window, so it might need a whole new step in the chapter.
There is a small problem: the follow convoy icon depends on the theme, not the pakset. So you cannot tell players "click on the eye" because although most themes use an eye, not all do. So I think you would have to say, "click on the fourth icon from the top left of the convoy window", or something similar.
brief note explaining that the icon may look different depending on the theme could also help avoid confusion?
Quote from: Matthew on May 17, 2024, 05:59:52 AMAs I have mentioned, I have been trying out the tutorial.
I think the structure of the tutorial would be very helpful for beginners. It's really great that you have done this, Yona.
However, there is one thing that I think could be added to the early chapters.
One of the best things about Simutrans is that you can follow the convoys around. I probably spend more time just watching my trains go along than doing anything else. It's so cool! 8)
As early as chapter 2 step 4 (at least in the English tutorial for pak128), players are creating convoys and waiting for them to arrive at stops. I think new players would really enjoy following convoys too.
So I suggest that that following convoys should be added to chapter 2. This would also require introducing the convoy window, so it might need a whole new step in the chapter.
crossy road (https://crossy-road.com/)
There is a small problem: the follow convoy icon depends on the theme, not the pakset. So you cannot tell players "click on the eye" because although most themes use an eye, not all do. So I think you would have to say, "click on the fourth icon from the top left of the convoy window", or something similar.
would it be possible to incorporate a section in Chapter 2 that introduces the convoy-following feature, along with guidance on how to access the convoy window, considering the variability in the follow convoy icon across different themes?
Quote from: Archibald on May 19, 2025, 10:13:29 AMwould it be possible to incorporate a section in Chapter 2 that introduces the convoy-following feature, along with guidance on how to access the convoy window, considering the variability in the follow convoy icon across different themes?
Good observation, I actually opened an extension request thinking about that, but I haven't received any responses, I'm going to try to do it myself (if I have some time and motivation).
https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/topic,23511.0.html
- Just a very quick and very dirty solution could be adding something in the lines of "Press *macro* or second (was it third? I don't remember right now) button to follow the convoy" right after the convoy name text in the convoy window bar.
- Or, perhaps moving the convoy follow button to the right (or middle) so it becomes just enough of an eyesore for an average player to notice it. Naturally i'm the person to figure out the software the hard way (or at least actually read the manual), and for me tutorials (especially the ones that try to cover any aspect of the game imaginable) are the least appealing part of pretty much any game, so this is much more preferred by me and people like myself.
Besides, OpenTTD is way more popular than Simutrans, but lacks any in-game tutorial whatsoever, and it's safe to assume that any player that comes to Simutrans community most likely played, or at least seen OpenTTD before playing Simutrans, which uses somewhat the same routine to follow convoys. Not all people, not even the ones that are stuck with the piece of software they see for the first time in their life, rush to read/play/watch the tutorial, so making the button a bit more noticeable might be more fruitful for learning the game than one line between dozens in a tutorial.
It used to be a button below the image in the vehicle window.
But for whatever reason, it has since been removed and replaced by the button in the title bar.