As I now more or less conclude my overhaul of the map window, I want to share the "instructions" on how to use it (and of course invite further feedback).
There are now two kind of selections buttons, which I tried to group and added tooltips:
- white/yellow for exclusive selections which cancel all other selections.
- green for overlays which can be combined.
- purple for overlay of stops. Only one purple overlay can be active at a time.
The factory overlay triggers also the display of factory connections. The network overlay show either the currently active schedule or the complete network. With the yellow buttons, you can only show passenger/mail/freight network. With control, the lines in the network are collapse for overview.
I know it is a big change, but the old map was a mess, where buttons were just added to the end without any connections to each other.
The change is a step in the right direction, even if the style is not as... colourful as before ;)
I couldn't test the new version, for the nightly error reported in bugs.
I'm writing here from a conceptual point of view.
What about replacing buttons with other UI elements, as follow:
- exclusive selections which cancel all other selections. -> Combo box or buttons
- overlays which can be combined. -> Check boxes
- Overlay of stops. Only one purple overlay can be active at a time. -> Combo box
Show legend check box could go, those UI elements would be always shown (being less, as many overlays would go into the combo box)
Show scale check box could go, new behavior as follows:
- shown when one or more overlays use the scale colors
- hidden otherwise
I would certainly like to check those improvements, but the game I'm playing is in a computer with a practically full disk drive, so that I cannot upgrade to the last revision and the computer I have with ST upgraded to the last revision is not powerful enough... sigh...
I like the changes, but I'd group the buttons in categories, right now it's a bit confusing to me, because when you push a button you start wondering wich group it was before, so you really don't know if pushing a button will unpush other.
As a example I'll attach a SS, so more people can give their oppinion.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30024783/Untitled22.png)
The new Map looks very good out!
Just one thing: Sometimes the circles are too small. The min size should be a little bigger.
The buttons are grouped:
Town stuff
Destination(s)
Network stuff
Station stuff
Infrastructure
Other
Which cancel each other out is determined by the color:
Green are overlays which can be added
White/Yellow cancel out each other
Purple are overlay, but only one purple overlay is allowed
However, please feel free for other suggestions for organisation.
About small stop circles: In maps cirlces are already 9 tiles size. Two close bisstops would easily overlap with larger minimum size, imho. What about a larger minimum size if zoomed in?
My oppinion:
Color grouping is not enough imo, they are not even sorted by color atm. One problem is when the button is pressed it changes colour quite a lot, so you visually lose the information of wich group it was from.
Using just colors forces the user to have memory and it's not intuitive imo.
I'd just use two Groupboxes, one with radio buttons that are mutually exclusive, and another groupboxx with checkboxes, that show clearly the idea that they can be activated independently.
But you can keep the colours, it will make things clearer. You just need to make it clear visually to the user that some options are mutually exclusive, I find radio buttons or a selection list much more appropiate for that than just buttons.
Something like this:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30024783/Untitled23.png)
A different minimum when zoomed is a good idea.
I've attached the map screen to show how small they are. The 2 circles on bottom right.
I finally managed to have a look at the New Map Window with the game I'm playing and the outcome couldn't be better. Congratulations to all that have worked on it, specially to prissi!
I've noticed no lack of performance whatsoever. Just to point out something minor, the change of scale for city limits, factories, etc. that looks sometimes odd.
And a suggestion: I constantly use the Stop status button to look for stations with problems. It is nice since it shows the present state of the station, but what about its evolution (derivative)?
Imagine a station with 19000 passengers waiting, red status. I open a faster new line and things are corrected since passengers are now 18800, 18600,... But the status is already red and will be until the new line deals with all those waiting passengers. When I forget about the station and come back later, I have to manually open the details graph and see the evolution to see if it needs fixing or not.
An alternative could be that the Stop status showed the center color with present status and the border color with evolution (red, bad; green, good).
This could be easily added; it just needs a striking name.
What the hell happened to the old map window :o
This is much much better. More modern and more practical :D
Congrats to the developers!
One little request: is it possible to separate bus/trolleybus, trams and trucks routes in the Network map somehow?
Why would you seperate bus and truck? You can select only mail, pax and goods routes by the yellow buttons?
I meant, to make bus/trolleybus routes having different kind of line, not the same as trucks. But I didnt think I can use other buttons in same moment as I use Network one, gonna try.
LS,
What version of simutrans should I use to see the new map window ?
I used the nightly build from 8/5/12 but didn't see the new layout.
Or should I set some options/use specific actions to (see the) update ?
Kind regards,
Herman
Ue the network button to see the actual connection. WIth the passenger/Mail/Freight buttons you can only see the part of that network.
Hello,
the new map is just great !
One request though : could the attraction be pictured in, say, blue ? As it is I can't tell if that big red circle is a congested station or a big attraction.
Colour is after the attraction level. But they could have a different shape, maybe even a pictogram.
Also depots are hard to tell from one another, there the way type pictogram would definitely help.
I could certainly code attractions as rectangles; but then you could confuse them with factories ...
I like the new map window. excellent job.
Quote from: prissi on May 19, 2012, 09:52:54 PM
I could certainly code attractions as rectangles; but then you could confuse them with factories ...
What about triangles? Or rectangles, but rotated of 45° (rombs)?
In small sizes, those will be indistinguishable from circles ... moreover, while possible it does not need to make sense to have everything selected at the same time.
Quote from: prissi on May 19, 2012, 09:52:54 PM
I could certainly code attractions as rectangles; but then you could confuse them with factories ...
That would be better as all of them are destination.
I'm using the map to display all possible destination ( town limit + factories + attractions ) with traffic and waiting. The point is seeing all bottlenecks in a glance along with potential places for expansion for the pax network.
how about stars? ;)
actually, I would just take a page from road signs and use circle, square, diamond, triangle and inverted triangle.
maybe add 'x' and '+' if 5 shapes are not enough... otherwise, I think you might be better off with just using letters or numbers.
just how many combinations are needed in conjunction anyways?
On most developed maps, using more than one overlay at a time is useless, as those are anyway overlapping themselves ...
Can I suggest something?
I think the "Networks" button is rather a visual tool than an item of the legend. I'd suggest to make it a button next to the "Industry List" button, on the top of the window.
I would also recommend to move checkboxes somewhere else, one by one like before, because right now they are under each other and it makes map window bigger than it was in 102 version (I use 1024x768 screen so its important for me).
I've two new button ideas.
1. If you activate the networks mode and select a station, the map shows only the lines which connect the selected station.
2. A new button shows the vehicles which serves the selected line. Vehicle tracking will be more easier with this option.
(The networks button should be the top of the map window like Igor suggested.)
The network button in complexer games is almost useless without restrain to either goods, pas, or mail. THus it belongs together with the other buttons.
I am somewhat hesitant on limiting connections to stations by default, as stations windows are open very frequently. Maybe this shoudl rather make another button then. Most challenge here is the UI though.