The International Simutrans Forum

Community => Game Servers => Topic started by: Ashley on September 29, 2012, 09:16:24 PM

Title: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Ashley on September 29, 2012, 09:16:24 PM
Currently running Simutrans stable 112.1 (r6212) with pak128 2.1.

This server is accessible over both IPv4 and IPv6.

The server will pause when no clients are connected.

Screenshot of the map:

(http://entropy.me.uk/simutrans/server/sim128b/current_map.png)


Previous savegames can be found here, listed by the date when the server was shut down:

http://entropy.me.uk/simutrans/server/sim128b/archive/ (http://entropy.me.uk/simutrans/server/sim128b/archive/)
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Markohs on September 29, 2012, 11:18:51 PM
most cities are named "simcity" I guess that was an error on creation maybe?
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Ashley on September 29, 2012, 11:19:51 PM
I just generate random maps, guess I forgot to use the custom city list for that one.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Ashley on November 01, 2012, 12:01:15 AM
Server restarted with latest binary.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Jaridan on November 24, 2012, 05:46:21 PM
server down :/
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Ashley on November 29, 2012, 12:41:33 AM
Server reset with new map.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Viação Rodrigus Ltda. on November 29, 2012, 03:28:24 AM
Someone has put passwords in ALL companies. Seems strange, since mostly none of them actually built a thing.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Jaridan on November 30, 2012, 07:39:13 PM
Server reset with new map.
why not use a newer version or a nightly where the underground building bug doesn't exist?
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Viação Rodrigus Ltda. on December 01, 2012, 02:00:28 AM
Someone has put passwords in ALL companies. Seems strange, since mostly none of them actually built a thing.

Issue solved. Thanks :)
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: prissi on December 01, 2012, 04:57:03 PM
If one knows the IP address/range, then this player could be blocked for the next game.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: greenling on December 01, 2012, 06:20:08 PM
prissi
that what you here be post have it a bad idea:
If one knows the IP address/range, then this player could be blocked for the next game.
It gives tool with then can you orgin ip adress/range overwrite and missuse a another one.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Viação Rodrigus Ltda. on December 04, 2012, 11:50:29 PM
I think it's an issue, despite all my constant connection crashes due to my poor 3G connection:
Whenever I try to rewrite a land message (near a garage, for example), Simutrans stops running on my Windows 8...
Because of those crashes, I always have to rewrite messages until they are complete.

For those playing in this world, enjoy the benefits of integrating services at a public bus stop at Terminal Collingswood (northeast on the map). Airport facilities (thanks for the builder!) also available :D
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: greenling on December 05, 2012, 04:19:01 PM
Viação Rodrigus Ltda
you play simutrans over a Internet stick?
Better buy a Internet via Cable.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Viação Rodrigus Ltda. on December 05, 2012, 09:17:26 PM
Since it's now available in my neighborhood (it's a bit far from town), I've started considering subscribing a cable internet. Thanks for the suggestion. For now, I must still test my patience: most times you see "Grupo Rodrigus has left", it was not exactly Grupo Rodrigus wanting to leave - lol!
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Ashley on December 28, 2012, 02:49:37 PM
Server upgraded to the new stable, with a new map.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Jaridan on January 09, 2013, 03:06:03 AM
came desyncing every 3-4 ingame "days" if you do nothing.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Jaridan on January 09, 2013, 09:34:34 PM
uhm yeah, so our map is reset, is that intended?
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Parachute on January 21, 2013, 11:29:09 AM
Why is the server offline?
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Ashley on January 21, 2013, 08:08:50 PM
Bug causing the map to crash the server, should be fixed now.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Dwachs on January 24, 2013, 08:04:44 AM
Bug causing the map to crash the server, should be fixed now.
Whcih kind of bug?
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Ashley on January 24, 2013, 02:55:51 PM
It was the one with too many pedestrians on one tile - Fifty modified the map to remove pedestrians (so worked around the bug rather than fixed it).
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: benjad on January 26, 2013, 04:18:32 PM
Could you try rebooting the server.  You can connect for about 15 seconds before desync.   
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Fifty on January 26, 2013, 07:56:50 PM
It should be noted that this desyncing is not crashing either the server or the client, the map itself seems fine to continue play. I don't know what the cause is.

It happened once or twice before on this server and disappeared as mysteriously as it occurred after a day or two. I had been playing without issue for maybe an hour before this occurred, and then suddenly it started kicking everybody 5-45 seconds after reconnect.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Parachute on January 27, 2013, 10:41:27 AM
It.. is.. annoying. Why cant someone just restart the server?
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: prissi on January 27, 2013, 11:29:13 AM
It would be good to know, why it is desyncing. Was there any special construction going on? Because desyncing is a program bug.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Parachute on January 27, 2013, 11:38:24 AM
It also happened on the map before this, I would say that it is a server problem. The previous desyncproblem was because there were too many pedestrians on one tile, maybe its the same problem this time?
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Ashley on January 27, 2013, 01:10:01 PM
I'll restart it this evening, away from home so no way to do it at present I'm afraid.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: prissi on January 27, 2013, 01:42:44 PM
I found other issues with this game. Using a nightly, it chokes badly on powerlines too.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Fifty on January 27, 2013, 05:43:33 PM
It also happened on the map before this, I would say that it is a server problem. The previous desyncproblem was because there were too many pedestrians on one tile, maybe its the same problem this time?

I removed the pedestrians from this map. However, this is a different problem as that time the game was crashing, this time it is just desyncing.

I tried removing some of my newly built powerlines, it did not help. It's strange though that this sever keeps causing problems while A and C are totally fine (and that this problem went away on its own before). Before the problem started I was the primary person building, I was starting many new convoys in the middle of a big expansion.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: benjad on February 01, 2013, 01:31:39 AM
Any thoughts on this one?  Would be good to troubleshoot the errors, but if it is just time to restart the map,  I'm for it.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: prissi on February 01, 2013, 08:55:20 AM
To debug the desync error the savegame should be enough.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Parachute on February 02, 2013, 10:56:48 AM
Someone who can do that?
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: benjad on February 03, 2013, 02:48:22 PM
I guess what we all are saying, there is a great community on the B server right now.   Server has been unplayable for a week.  If it is a corrupted savegame... lets restart the map.  (Or can we revert a few years?)
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Ashley on February 05, 2013, 09:04:50 PM
Sorry, finally got around to restarting the maps.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Parachute on February 05, 2013, 09:07:27 PM
Got two desyncs again in 20 minutes or something..
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Jaridan on February 18, 2013, 02:57:45 AM
it's desyncing like hell atm.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Fifty on February 18, 2013, 03:07:02 AM
For the third round of gaming in a row, the map on this server has started desyncing uncontrollably. (Just connect, and it will desync you within 30 seconds without doing anything). This map, again, is not nearly as developed as most netgame maps, including the one on the C server. What gives? Has this bug been fixed in the meantime? If not, would a developer please look into the cause of this problem? It's very annoying to have to give up gaming right when networks start to really develop.

Removing the pedestrians did not stop the bug from recurring last time. One thing I do know is that Jaridan was doing massive underground construction, if that caused a problem.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: TurfIt on February 18, 2013, 03:30:14 AM
Last I looked into these desyncs, I couldn't duplicate when running my own server. Apparently these servers run some custom patches that may be the cause, but without the patches...

EDIT:
It is the same symptoms as with the c.64 server last fall, desync due to random number mismatch on the 4th NWC_CHECK. And also same as c.64, cannot duplicate with a virgin server.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: benjad on February 18, 2013, 02:00:08 PM
+1 on underground being a possible issue.  We had very few desyncs when there was little undeground.  As the player started going underground, he started desync-ing a bunch, then it spread to everyone else.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Fifty on February 18, 2013, 05:14:01 PM
Thanks for looking into the cause of the desyncs, TurfIt. One thing I do remember is that the first time this bug appeared was when this headless graphics patch (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=10448.msg100912#msg100912) was added-- I wonder if it could cause an issue with underground or something else?

One other thing of note is that it only seems to affect pak 128.
Edit: nevermind, happened on 64 too, but I'm still tempted to say it's an issue with underground stations.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: benjad on February 18, 2013, 05:29:12 PM
possibly related, every once in a while when placing an 'station addition' on a slope, i get a "fatal: missing ground" error  (or something similar to that).  Can't repeat it reliably. 
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Dwachs on February 18, 2013, 06:41:06 PM
possibly related, every once in a while when placing an 'station addition' on a slope, i get a "fatal: missing ground" error  (or something similar to that).  Can't repeat it reliably. 
Could be a double-click with the tool on the sloped tile. I.e. second click happened before building was placed.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: benjad on February 19, 2013, 01:42:42 AM
(NOT double posting, thanks  :)  )

Also one more thing I just noticed.  Normally when desyncs occur, you can continue to manipulate the map behind the dialogues.  You can move it, click on vehicles, stations, etc.  and the appropriate dialogs appear.

With this desync, the map locks to user input, but continues to run underneath the dialogoues... though a bit faster. 
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Dwachs on February 19, 2013, 07:29:03 AM
Also one more thing I just noticed.  Normally when desyncs occur, you can continue to manipulate the map behind the dialogues.  You can move it, click on vehicles, stations, etc.  and the appropriate dialogs appear.

With this desync, the map locks to user input, but continues to run underneath the dialogoues... though a bit faster. 
Then I do not understand, what you are talking about 'desyncs' here: The first description is the classical desync: Error messages are popping up, which tell you that something bad happened.

I do not understand you second description. It sounds like the game on your computer was lagging behind and then tries to catch up, thus running faster.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: benjad on February 19, 2013, 10:56:40 PM
That is part of the odd behavior.  Normally when a desync occurs, it appears that you could just close the dialogues and continue playing offline (as you used to be able to).

When this desync occurs, the UI elements behind the dialogues do not respond.


If we think it is still an underground issue, that is easy to test (sorry Jaridan).  Bulldoze all the major underground works, and reload the map, see what happens.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Fifty on February 20, 2013, 03:35:17 AM
That is part of the odd behavior.  Normally when a desync occurs, it appears that you could just close the dialogues and continue playing offline (as you used to be able to).

When this desync occurs, the UI elements behind the dialogues do not respond.

I don't think this is anything different from a "usual" desync realted to the server running faster or slower than the client. You can't mess with what's behind the dialogs until you close the "Lost synchronization with server" popup, and then you can continue with the game offline. This is how it's always been, no?

This problem is just a desync- the game still runs just fine for me at least, and does not crash on either the client or server side as in the pedestrian bug. There are no error messages.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Jaridan on February 20, 2013, 05:34:51 PM
That is part of the odd behavior.  Normally when a desync occurs, it appears that you could just close the dialogues and continue playing offline (as you used to be able to).

When this desync occurs, the UI elements behind the dialogues do not respond.


If we think it is still an underground issue, that is easy to test (sorry Jaridan).  Bulldoze all the major underground works, and reload the map, see what happens.

definitely something we could/should try. If i understand this correct fifty can play without problems? in that case you could hop onto my acc and bulldoze the underground stuff (pw is the same as in all games).
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Fifty on February 21, 2013, 03:46:59 AM
I have problems too, but I might be able to quickly destroy your stuff, will see...
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Vonjo on February 21, 2013, 05:59:53 PM
Last I looked into these desyncs, I couldn't duplicate when running my own server...
Confirmed.
I tried to run the current savegame on a remote server, but it didn't have this desync problem. I can't reproduce the problem so far.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: prissi on February 21, 2013, 09:37:10 PM
Maybe this instance of the serer uses a different farmes behind setting than the other instances (i.e. a left over in the simuconf.tab?)
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: TurfIt on February 21, 2013, 09:51:16 PM
I don't see how a different frames behind setting could cause this. Or any settings for that matter. These desyncs are a random number mismatch.

Since I can take the client savegame and run it on a server with no issues, 2 possibilities jump to mind:
1, the custom management patches applied to these servers are causing this. (or something else unique with the server build/environment).
2, the problem only appears after a server has been running for a while.
3, combination of above.

First thing I'd try is reboot the server! Second - try without any modification from trunk.
In any case, the ball's in Timothy's court as no one else can do anything...
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Ashley on February 21, 2013, 09:57:03 PM
The only patch I have beyond the standard code is one to allow the process to daemonise. I am not sure how this could affect random number generation.

I can certainly try restarting it though. The B server is identical (using even the same binary hard-linked) as the A and C ones.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: TurfIt on February 21, 2013, 11:00:27 PM
Assuming the server was restarted in the last hour, no change, still different randoms.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Ashley on February 21, 2013, 11:10:55 PM
Assuming the server was restarted in the last hour

Yep.
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Dwachs on February 22, 2013, 07:32:03 AM
How to proceed with this one??

Years ago I wrote some code to do automatic desync-debugging: Client and Server store all calls to random number generator. Upon desync they exchange messages to find the point of divergence. The patch was unstable, I did not continue to work on this. Branch is here:
https://github.com/Dwachs/simutrans/tree/debug-desync

In order to trace down the error, one still needs to add calls to log values of variables. That is, server and client needs to be recompiled & restarted regularly.

If the desync is due to some hardware error (memory failure) then we will not find anything ...

@Timothy: Would it be possible to add means to let us (developers) recompile the server from updated sources and restart?
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Fifty on February 23, 2013, 04:19:19 PM
Hello B server players,

I've managed to create my own server fiftyserver.no-ip.org; I will continue the savegame of this b.128 server on that server as it seems to be stable. If there are any questions or ways I can help with debugging, please PM me.

edit: crashed, will be back in a few minutes Edit 2: working again
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Ashley on February 24, 2013, 11:36:47 AM
@Timothy: Would it be possible to add means to let us (developers) recompile the server from updated sources and restart?

Yes, but I don't have time at the moment to set this up :(
Title: Re: b.128.simutrans.entropy.me.uk
Post by: Vonjo on March 18, 2013, 07:56:36 AM
Here is the latest savegame from Timothy's+Fifty's+Vonjo's server:
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/twelve01.sve
Simutrans 112.1 (r6212), pak128 2.2.0
Map dimensions: 512x512, current in-game date: March 2108 (starting date: January 1940)
99 towns, 3622311 citizens, 1091 factories, 1509 vehicles and 1311 stops.
(http://i.imgur.com/3Dw0pDq.jpg)
Tell me if you want to continue serving this map or have problem with the savegame. :)