The International Simutrans Forum

PakSets and Customization => Pak128.Britain => Topic started by: BBGunn on March 11, 2014, 12:05:24 AM

Title: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: BBGunn on March 11, 2014, 12:05:24 AM
I love pak128.Britain.  It is my favorite pakset on Simutrans.

I also love playing Simutrans using a tropical landscape.  I love tropical areas in real life, and playing Simutrans in a tropical world is an extension of that.

Unfortunately, I cannot play pak128.Britain in a tropical landscape, and that is sad.

Now, I know that pak128.Britain is designed to emulate Great Britain, so making tropical landscape graphics for it is very, very low on the list of priorities, and that's fine with me.  I know how much hard work goes into making paksets, and I really appreciate what has already gone into pak128.Britain.   But is there a way for me to, if you will, "hack" pak128.Britain so that I could use the vehicles, tracks, stations - even some of the town buildings - in a tropical landscape like the one in the standard pak128?  Perhaps move some pak128 landscape files over to pak128.Britain, or move vehicle or way .paks over to the standard pak128?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: jamespetts on March 11, 2014, 12:22:51 AM
There is already a "tropical" climate tile, and you can get the tropical sound if you import the relevant ambient sounds from Pak64 (they might already have been added to Pak128.Britain). All that you would then need would be tropical trees, which you might be able to import from Pak128. The pakset would look very out of place, of course (and the Pak128 trees would not fit in well), but if you don't mind that, it should not be too hard in principle.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: BBGunn on March 11, 2014, 12:27:30 AM
There is already a "tropical" climate tile, and you can get the tropical sound if you import the relevant ambient sounds from Pak64 (they might already have been added to Pak128.Britain). All that you would then need would be tropical trees, which you might be able to import from Pak128. The pakset would look very out of place, of course (and the Pak128 trees would not fit in well), but if you don't mind that, it should not be too hard in principle.
Thank you for the advice, jamespetts.  I'll give it a go, but... well, if you say that it would look very much out of place, then I'm probably not going to like it.  :)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: AP on March 11, 2014, 10:18:05 PM
Perhaps we could rename the Tropical tile 'colonial'...
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: kierongreen on March 13, 2014, 09:45:20 PM
Long term I would rename climates to reflect those across Britain. Especially now that nothing limits climates to only height you could have different building styles for different areas of the country.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: Sarlock on March 13, 2014, 09:59:19 PM
That would be wonderful: evergreen forest, deciduous forest, moors, swamp, grassland...
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: jamespetts on March 13, 2014, 10:50:29 PM
I am already in the process of doing that in Experimental: beach, dune, plains, lowlands, uplands, hill, mountain. Both beach and dune are set to zero, and plains to 1. Having a climate tile named as a forest does not quite make sense, as trees are individually simulated and not built into climate tiles.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: BBGunn on March 14, 2014, 12:02:04 AM
Long term I would rename climates to reflect those across Britain. Especially now that nothing limits climates to only height you could have different building styles for different areas of the country.
Did I miss this?  Is this a new feature in the nightlies or something?  That would completely change the way I play Simutrans.  One of the few things I don't like about simutrans - other than the ability to generate maps with islands - is the fact that climates are based on height.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: jamespetts on March 14, 2014, 12:16:00 AM
It is in the newer nightlies, yes. I do not think that it has made the release version yet, although hopefully it will soon.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: ӔO on March 14, 2014, 02:05:23 AM
I am already in the process of doing that in Experimental: beach, dune, plains, lowlands, uplands, hill, mountain. Both beach and dune are set to zero, and plains to 1. Having a climate tile named as a forest does not quite make sense, as trees are individually simulated and not built into climate tiles.

I would suggest wetland, bedrock and highland.

bedrock, instead of dune
highland, instead of hill
wetland, instead of plains

plains is somewhat similar to lowland.
do dunes exist in UK?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: Sarlock on March 14, 2014, 02:43:57 AM
Distribution_of_Sand_Dunes_in_Great_Britain (http://www.coastalwiki.org/wiki/Distribution_of_Sand_Dunes_in_Great_Britain)

Apparently!  Coastal types.

It would add a nice element to the pakset, especially with different tree/shrub types to match.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: ӔO on March 14, 2014, 04:41:58 AM
Ah, I thought it was mostly regular beaches and rocks in the UK.

I wonder if there can't be white cliffs of Dover type walls.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: Sarlock on March 14, 2014, 05:32:09 AM
You'd have to use ground_object for that, which isn't entirely impossible, but difficult.  I tried making some sea cliffs for pak128 and they looked pretty nice, but only I only got as far as making the straight edged parts (N/S and E/W).  With half heights now, there are so many more combinations of slopes (I can't remember how many, but it's a lot) that it would be a massive effort to draw them all (or even render them).  EDIT  I think there are 80 different combinations.

I used them in one of my SMSC entries:

(http://www.ssgholdings.ca/simutrans/images/farm_contest.png)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: jamespetts on March 14, 2014, 10:27:18 AM
"Plains" are not the same as lowlands - plains mean specifically here coastal plains, areas only slightly higher than sea level. We do indeed have dunes - I remember having great fun tobogganing on dunes in Wales when I was a boy.

As to the names in Pak128.Britain-Ex, I slightly misremembered the designations. The actual data from en.tab are:

Code: [Select]
temperate
Lowlands
tundra
Uplands
desert
Beach
Mediterranean
Coastal plains
rocky
Mountain
arctic
Mountain peak

Changing "Mountain" to "Highlands" and "Mountain peak" to "Mountain" might be a good idea, however, although I do wonder whether "highlands" is too close to "uplands".
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: kierongreen on March 14, 2014, 03:52:49 PM
My thoughts were wet and dry versions of lowlands and uplands, along with highlands, mountains and beaches. Wet lowland would be could include the Norfolk Broads, Somerset Levels, along with other marshes and esturies. Some industries might appear here but not settlements. Dry lowlands would be most other areas, including 'islands' in otherwise wet areas. wet uplands would include lower levels of the Pennines, Ex and Dartmoor, as well as the Welsh and Scottish hills and mountains. Dry uplands would be Chilterns, North and South Downs. Highlands and Mountains would be areas above 400 and 800m respectively.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: jamespetts on March 14, 2014, 09:05:07 PM
Interesting. Incidentally, are there any plans to have the generation of climate tiles on map creation (as opposed to their manual placement by players later) dependant on anything other than height?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: kierongreen on March 14, 2014, 10:31:37 PM
There have been a few patches but nothing finished yet. Incidentally thinking about it names could be Beach, Wetland, Lowland, Upland, Moorland, Highland and Mountain?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: jamespetts on March 14, 2014, 10:49:09 PM
That could work, although are coastal plains not distinct from wetlands? The wetland/moorland categories would probably require the patch just discussed to be effective, would they not?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: kierongreen on March 15, 2014, 12:05:22 AM
I though coastal plains would be best as generic lowlands. Patches would be necessary different climate distribution not just on height yes.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: sheldon_cooper on March 24, 2014, 02:24:28 AM
Hello! The goalposts in the photo, is available for download? :)
You'd have to use ground_object for that, which isn't entirely impossible, but difficult.  I tried making some sea cliffs for pak128 and they looked pretty nice, but only I only got as far as making the straight edged parts (N/S and E/W).  With half heights now, there are so many more combinations of slopes (I can't remember how many, but it's a lot) that it would be a massive effort to draw them all (or even render them).  EDIT  I think there are 80 different combinations.

I used them in one of my SMSC entries:

(http://www.ssgholdings.ca/simutrans/images/farm_contest.png)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain in a tropical setting?
Post by: greenling on April 20, 2014, 09:40:47 PM
Hello sheldon_cooper
That what you can be view on the Photo it´s under devlopment!