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Community => Community Discussion => Web & Wiki => Topic started by: IgorEliezer on January 25, 2009, 12:15:28 AM

Title: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com (old topic)
Post by: IgorEliezer on January 25, 2009, 12:15:28 AM
This topic is for discussions about www.simutrans.com

Simutrans.com site (http://www.simutrans.com/)

Feel free to:

- make suggestions;
- report errors;
- and so on that I can't remember now... ;D

EDIT:

This topic is locked; go here: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=3434.0
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: jamespetts on January 25, 2009, 12:22:16 AM
Excellent :-)

Might I request that PakBritain be added to the paksets section? I can supply screenshots if required.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: IgorEliezer on January 25, 2009, 12:26:13 AM
Sure!

Well, you saw how the material must look there. If you want to provide a thumbnail pic, a short description (2- lines) and links, go ahead.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: freegamer on January 25, 2009, 01:13:47 AM
(Comments on the Welcome page, I didn't look at anything else)

1.  The 'Welcome to Simutans' takes up way too much vertical space (reduce the margins at least) - forcing you to scroll downwards for the real content.  The area that is immediately visible on a web page (i.e. the bit that doesn't have to be scrolled to) is prime web real estate.  Don't waste it with a few words surrounded by buckets of wasted empty space.
2.  The download banner is far too low down on the page.  Most people visiting the site already know (roughly) what Simutrans is.  It should be immediately visible.  I know there is a link in the menu, but 'download' should be the _first_ thing that catches the eye.
3.  No logo.  What's the Simutrans logo?  Where is it?  If there is no logo, why not?  The game needs an identity!
4.  The greyish watermark serves no purpose other than to make the text harder to read.  Get rid of it.
5.  Screenshots?  Where is the screenshots link?  Why isn't there an immediately linked screenshot on the page?  Those cropped thumbnails are not good enough.
6.  No news?  People love news.  There should be at least an RSS of the download forum or something similar. 

The FreeCol website (http://www.freecol.org/) is an example of a great front page.  Everything is obvious, easy to parse at a glance.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: mobo on January 25, 2009, 12:03:20 PM
Nice!

I really like the clear design. Looks good (on IE here).

Some things I've seen at first glance:

Welcome Page: There is an r missing in intrepreneur, maybe it's hard to understand anyway i don't know how common this word is in english.

The Tron set was more or less a joke anyway, but the one i made - the one with houses - is derived from the comic set therefore it's tile size 32 

edit: Yes, dirk is right. entrepreneur it is . i actually know that - so i feel even more stupid now  :-[

How about the "undertaker"  ;D (little german-english-joke)
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: DirrrtyDirk on January 25, 2009, 12:37:23 PM
There is an r missing in intrepreneur,

Yes, an "r" is missing, but it should stay starting with an "e"  ;): entrepreneur. (wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrepreneur))
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: IgorEliezer on January 25, 2009, 04:41:01 PM
Yes, an "r" is missing, but it should stay starting with an "e"  ;): entrepreneur. (wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrepreneur))

Fixed in off-net version.

About things pointed out by freegamer:

FreeCol website is an awesome site ;D. A good example.

I'll try to remove a bit of wasted space. Also, I don't like that banner-image in header. That header was an improvised way to provide a header to a page that didn't have any header besides a horizontal menu (old version: http://simutrans.sourceforge.net/).

This site is a sample of a good header: http://www.mobility-online.de/en/informations/generalinformation.html. I'd like an artist could create an image for header.

I need decent material and ideas to better improve my version, including banners and images; I need them because I can't expend too much time working on site as well as I don't have many good ideas... I'm not a webdesing. :D

Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: prissi on January 25, 2009, 08:10:39 PM
Alexander Brose in the German community can certainly make such a header. See http://www.brosedesign.de/
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: IgorEliezer on January 26, 2009, 04:21:23 PM
I got an idea of creating a vertical menu (on right side) like in Blender's site:

http://www.blender.org/
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: IgorEliezer on January 29, 2009, 09:38:59 PM
Important changes were made in index page:

http://pt.simutrans.com/newsite

...and others too.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: jamespetts on January 29, 2009, 09:40:40 PM
Looking very nice! Will you be adding the PakBritain images and information that I sent to you soon?
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: IgorEliezer on January 29, 2009, 09:49:07 PM
Will you be adding the PakBritain images and information that I sent to you soon?

I will soon. :D
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: jamespetts on January 29, 2009, 09:52:18 PM
Excellent!
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: VS on January 29, 2009, 10:01:17 PM
Great! I had to refresh the page (only a second or so saved me from commenting on bad layout), but it was worth that :)
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: prissi on January 29, 2009, 10:06:55 PM
The entry page looks much nicer. COuld there be a line below the top menu entries?

And the banner is just a gif, and looking very pixeling. Maybe make this jpg or PNG too?

Some of the graphics in pak sets open new windows, other appear in the same window. Maybe a consistent behaviour would be better.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: VS on January 29, 2009, 10:26:46 PM
PakHD is obsolete. Same is true for pak32, more or less...
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: TPIBAW on January 29, 2009, 10:48:18 PM
In the SimuTron and PakMars sections you first give the feeling it is playable (Go where no man has gone before; Well, we have a little remedy for you.), but then you say its not. I dont know if this is too important, but I found it a bit nagging....
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: VS on January 29, 2009, 10:51:42 PM
Yes, I agree with that, too.

EDIT: In fact it seems to me a bit inapropriate to advertise paksets that never existed.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: IgorEliezer on January 29, 2009, 11:25:21 PM
Then, I'll remove them.

What more could be removed? Please, list them.

If some text is wrong or bad, please, post me a better version.

Sorry for asking so. My free time is short. Lately, I have been busy for 14 hours a day (well, a bit better if considering 2008 I was 16-22 hours busy per day).
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: IgorEliezer on January 30, 2009, 03:39:27 AM
(As it's a work in progress)

Let's try again:

http://pt.simutrans.com/newsite

Refresh please, before cursing me... (VS?)

Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: jamespetts on January 30, 2009, 08:53:23 AM
Thank you for including PakBritain! However, there is a small error: when clicking on the leftmost of the images, there is a 404 error. I think that the link should be to PakBritain1.jpg rather than PakBritain.jpg.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: Dwachs on January 30, 2009, 09:06:52 AM
very nice site!

maybe you could add links to svn-repositories for the pak-sets (if available)?
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: IgorEliezer on January 30, 2009, 11:32:15 AM
maybe you could add links to svn-repositories for the pak-sets (if available)?

Have you checked Development page?

http://pt.simutrans.com/newsite/development.htm

After Get involved! -> Programming. Well... I don't know if that is what you're talking about. :)

I think that the link should be to PakBritain1.jpg rather than PakBritain.jpg.

Fixed.

I think pak128.Britain should have an "official" topic in forum with links and screens to receive feedbacks. So, I could point a link from new site to there. Samples:
http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=233.0
http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=101.0
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: vilvoh on January 30, 2009, 12:12:15 PM
Would be better to move Simutrans History from Development section to About Section? imho, it fits better there.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: The Hood on January 30, 2009, 12:45:52 PM
I think pak128.Britain should have an "official" topic in forum with links and screens to receive feedbacks. So, I could point a link from new site to there.

I agree, that would be good.  I was hoping to get one set up in the very near future as I need to make a number of posts about releases, to-do lists, feedback etc.  Can anyone set a board up?
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: IgorEliezer on January 30, 2009, 12:57:22 PM
Can anyone set a board up?

It's better to post an official topic fistly. If we get more audience for this pak (more material, movement, posts and topics), we will set up a board. :)
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: The Hood on January 30, 2009, 01:18:26 PM
OK, I'll start one when I put everything up on SVN (i.e. once I've sorted out the annoying freezy thing during map creation with my industries).
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: Dwachs on January 30, 2009, 07:50:16 PM
Have you checked Development page?

http://pt.simutrans.com/newsite/development.htm

After Get involved! -> Programming. Well... I don't know if that is what you're talking about. :)

I meant, adding the link directly to the page  Paksets -> Pak 64 (after homepage / tile size add an item 'sources') .
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: sojo on January 30, 2009, 08:02:57 PM
I think a white background could be nice.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: IgorEliezer on January 31, 2009, 08:37:03 PM
http://pt.simutrans.com/newsite

New update:

- pakContrast was added;
- Original watermarks was added;
- Original AWESOME pics was added (see footer of some pages ;D);
- Thumbnails and screenshots were fixed;
- More info for Simutrans IRC, in Community page;
- New links in Links page;
- New file structure;
- Other minor changes;

I need:

- new description for pakTTD;
- to know which are the playable paksets and not-playable ones**;
- someone(s) review pakset page;
- an idea for index page: watermark is making the text harder to read;
- 3 full screenshots and 3 thumbnails (250x200px) for pak96.comic*;
- 3 full screenshots and 3 thumbnails (250x200px) for pak128.japan*;
- 3 full screenshots and 3 thumbnails (250x200px) for pakHajo Evolution*;

*- follow name file format:
   - full screenshot: pak<name_of_pak><number>.jpg (e.g. pakGerman2.jpg)
   - thumbnails: pak<name_of_pak><number>_sm.jpg (e.g. pakGerman2_sm.jpg)

** - not-playable paksets will go to under "Other experiences" title. PakTTD will go up, but I need a new/better description first.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: sojo on January 31, 2009, 08:53:47 PM
Nice site. But this download is missed: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/simutrans/pak96.comic_0-4-5_0-101-0.zip

The screenshots come soon.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: vilvoh on January 31, 2009, 10:13:41 PM
One little thing, at Reviews and external/fan sites section you put several links to the different language articles from wikipedia butwould be easier to put just one link? simply to any language version of wikipedia. ATM, the simutrans article is translated into 11 languages, so that means 11 links more... :-\
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: prissi on January 31, 2009, 10:19:28 PM
The pak set should reflect their importance and uptodate state. I.e. First of course pak64 and pak128. Then pak96 and pakHajo.Evolution (or maybe this directly behind pak64) before featureing any sets for specific locations.

Following that I would suggest pak128.japan (complete) pak.german (at least playable). All the other are probably missing something or will not even start in 101. There should be a clear divider or a clear statement, which is the last version they run with.

The order of the old page was histroric, i.e. new developments were just pasted to the end. And there are already a pak128.german and a two pak129 in development.

So maybe there are more than one page needed or some clver submenues a la tabs ...
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: jamespetts on January 31, 2009, 10:31:00 PM
PakBritain is playable in 101, although relies on files from Pak128 to run.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: IgorEliezer on February 01, 2009, 12:44:31 AM
I'm realizing that download page (http://pt.simutrans.com/newsite/download.htm) is nonfunctional. Why? Every time that a pakset is released (and we do know not all paksets are released at once), the download needs to be edited by hand.

So I created a new and simpler version of download page:

http://pt.simutrans.com/newsite/download.htm
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: sojo on February 01, 2009, 09:15:13 AM
So I created a new and simpler version of download page:
I think this is a good way. Everybody will understand this.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: DirrrtyDirk on February 01, 2009, 11:04:47 AM
Quote
Linux with SDL and SDL_mixer

Didn't we change that to "Linux (requires SDL and SDL_mixer)" some time back in the past? Or are these things included by now?
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: jamespetts on February 01, 2009, 11:13:50 AM
"You need the executable compatible to your operating system" should be:

"You need the executable compatible with your operating system".
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: prissi on February 01, 2009, 11:46:21 AM
Maybe open a new window for the download page, as going backwards is not always working with all those redirects.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: IgorEliezer on February 01, 2009, 11:16:55 PM
Yet another sub-version of site:

- Welcome page and About page have received "new skin". If you like it, I'll apply it in other pages. (I did)
- Download page opens new windows to download files.
- New background for all pages.

I'm thinking of removing watermark from Welcome page.

http://pt.simutrans.com/newsite/index.html (refresh to update page styles)

EDIT:

I need a small icon to put in these buttons:

(http://pt.simutrans.com/newsite/images/button_wikimanual.jpg)

(http://pt.simutrans.com/newsite/images/button_projectpage.jpg)

As I did here:

(http://pt.simutrans.com/newsite/images/button_dowload.jpg)

... but I'm not getting good results.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: prissi on February 02, 2009, 10:00:16 AM
Honestly this white patches somewhere looks very ugly. Why not keeping Simutrans grass? (Also very small ... )
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: IgorEliezer on February 02, 2009, 10:31:33 AM
Honestly this white patches somewhere looks very ugly.

Somewhere where? If white background is not good, then I'll revert the changes of yesterday: I'll put gray background back as before. I would prefer the site with white background than older one with gray everywhere.

I think it's time to stop here and release this site. ;D
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: vilvoh on February 02, 2009, 10:49:56 AM
For wiki, you could usew this one from graphics.simutrans.com (resizing it if needed) or any other. IIRC, the wiki logo is available to be used with any purpose.
(http://graphics.simutrans.com/albums/userpics/10026/ST_wiki_logo.png)

In project page button, I would use the Simutrans logo. Btw, wouldn't be better to use a simple icon in download button? like this one (http://tinyurl.com/bkrqa6), for example:
(http://www.iconfinder.net/iconlib/nuove/128x128/actions/down.png)
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: IgorEliezer on February 03, 2009, 01:29:40 AM
Okay, I reverted almost all editions.

My last offer: http://pt.simutrans.com/newsite/

About icons: Anyway thanks. But I don't know if I'll make more changes in site ATM. I prefer to host it soon and/or leave new editions later. This story is taking too long.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: vilvoh on February 03, 2009, 07:36:31 AM
IMHO, it's ready for the release...great work, Igor!
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: prissi on February 03, 2009, 08:36:39 AM
The link text of underlined links changes when mouseover effects occur and cause the text to jump up and down and left and right when just moving the mouse over the text, at least for webkit browsers (safari and chrome). Those underlines links also only are seen in the latter. I presume the CSS needs some more tweaking.

Personally, I would just put the about section under the welcome section. I find those two redundant. On the other hand I dearly miss the link to the sf project page in the main menu.

(And 101 is not really a stable release, as it destroy lines when saving, which is quite a fatal bug.)

For the debug section: THe programming wiki is on sourceforge too:
http://simutrans.wiki.sourceforge.net/
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: Spike on February 04, 2009, 10:39:46 AM
In the pakHajo section it says:

Quote
However, certain aspects still tell the 8 Bit heritage.

Which aspects would that be?

Although I don't have much time to work on pakHajo.Evolution, I'd like to upgrade the graphics. The set is meant to be a feature-frozen version of Simutrans 0.84.x, but the images (and also the in-game texts) I want to improve to my best abilities.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: prissi on February 04, 2009, 12:23:42 PM
I think the powerplant was still 8 Bit, as some of the curiosities and the grass of the construction sites.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: Spike on February 04, 2009, 12:50:54 PM
Ok. The powerplant has been upgraded meanwhile.

Some of the curiosities, particularly the stonehenge wait for better images - I had a better stonehenge once, but lost it somehow. The construction site image is very old for sure, too. Thanks for the pointers :)
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - almost ready to release
Post by: IgorEliezer on February 05, 2009, 03:51:15 PM
A little question:

Can I release the new site officially?

Thanks
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: KrazyJay on February 05, 2009, 04:25:01 PM
One last thing, sorry to be a bit extreme, but on this page about.htm (http://pt.simutrans.com/newsite/about.htm) is a little mistake to be found. "Each passanger (and unit of goods) is intelligent, knows where it needs to go, and can transfer from one vehicle to another to reach its destination." It should say passenger, and correct me if I'm wrong, but to be precise, it should be "Every passenger [...]". But don't pin me down on that one... Everything else, the site looks nice, really! :)
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: prissi on February 05, 2009, 09:57:13 PM
Is it only me, who finds about and wecome redundant? If yes, maybe we could go ahead. The development section is still a big mess, but it was that already before. (If I had time I would think of a some section for grafik, testing, and programming to have some structure at all.)
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: vilvoh on February 05, 2009, 10:11:28 PM
You're not alone.. :D... The Welcome section is more or less a summary of some parts of About section. It should be shorter. The wikipedia article has a good intro that may be useful as example:
Quote
Simutrans is a cross-platform simulation game which players has to run a successful transport system by transporting goods and passengers between places. Simutrans was originally written by Hansjörg Malthaner but it is now maintained and developed by a small team which releases bug fixes, changes or new features for the game

Short, simple and direct. I think it expresses what exactly Simutrans is

On the other hand, imho Development it's too long, and as I said before I would move Simutrans history to About section.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: prissi on February 05, 2009, 10:56:18 PM
I would move the "about" stuff just below the welcome stuff, just after a horizointal line below those boxes to the right.

This is the further motivation for the non-braindead people, albeit usually the ones who are longer with us. If you are too lazy to read this, you are not going to play simutrans because it will be too challenging anyway.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: VS on February 05, 2009, 11:01:05 PM
Igor: agreed, if it was up to me, I'd say put it up, then fix what is found in time.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: IgorEliezer on February 06, 2009, 12:44:27 AM
agreed, if it was up to me, I'd say put it up, then fix what is found in time.

Okay. I fixed the "typos" pointed out by KrazyJay (thank you).

After hosting the new site, I'll pack entire material into a zipfile so that any webdesigner better than me can download and make changes/updates that are needed.

I need some instruction about how to host this site (via PM); the latest times I tried do to so, I failed.

Also, I'll need someone to redirect www.simutrans.com address to the new site.

About Welcome page: I see welcome page as a summary of entire site, then I don't see any problem if we have some similarities between welcome and about page. Actually, the index page has some info that are not in about page, has a different text.

The index page should have more visual appeal than texts and details. If a visitor, after having an overview of main theme - the Simutrans, gets interested, he'll look for more details in other pages. OTOH, if we have an index page with too much information, the visitor will get tired easily because we weren't objective with the message. We are dealing with players.

IMHO, the index page should be short and clean, with just 1 or 2 paragraphs and latest news (e.g: http://www.freecol.org, http://www.openttd.org/en, http://www.scirra.com and http://www.blender.org ). It would be better if we get rid of vertical scrollbar...but for these things we would need to remove at least two paragraphs out to get more space; and someone in charge of posting news there too.

Just it.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: Dwachs on February 06, 2009, 08:00:39 AM
on the development site there is a strange graphic, showing some box in the 'transparent' color. I suppose this has a special meaning but I cannot figure it out.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: vilvoh on February 06, 2009, 08:18:38 AM
I guess it tries to show you how the graphic engine works, but I thought It was there to show a usual graphic bug, when you forget to use E7FFFF as transparent background color in png files.. :-\
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: VS on February 06, 2009, 11:10:31 AM
Napik used that picture to depict "development". I thought it was strange choice, too, but do you have any better idea? I don't :-\ It is not that easy:

The picture must convey that something is new, so just slapping there an image of a new feature like tunnel slopes will not work; the viewer does not know if it is a new feature or not. Such image would not even communicate "development". Also, consider that this section may stay the same for ages, so the idea of "new" should be rather timeless.

Showing code text would not work, too, since that is dull - you do not even need a picture for that. Maybe some blend from code to picture...

I'm afraid I have pondered this too many times and can't think of anything new :(
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: IgorEliezer on February 06, 2009, 11:41:40 AM
I thought it was strange choice, too, but do you have any better idea?

I had found it:

(http://en.wiki.simutrans.com/images/1/11/Make.png)
http://en.wiki.simutrans.com/index.php/Source_Code

... but as VS said "Showing code text would not work since that is dull"... I got stuck.

I can't stay here. I need to go to work.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: vilvoh on February 06, 2009, 11:47:24 AM
We could mix some code and graphics development references. The image may include a painting program (GIMP, Ps, Paint), a 3D program (Blender, Wings, 3dStudioMax) and code compiling..
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: VS on February 06, 2009, 12:12:45 PM
Could be. I'll try to come up with something.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - IS OUT
Post by: IgorEliezer on February 09, 2009, 04:02:54 PM
I'm here just to say:

New site is out.

http://www.simutrans.com/

bye
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: vilvoh on February 09, 2009, 04:21:55 PM
Great work!!  it still needs some arrangements but at least now we have a decent main site, apart from SF.net project site. Thanks very much for your time and effort Igor.. :)
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: jamespetts on February 09, 2009, 05:11:23 PM
Excellent! That should help to encourage more people to use Simutrans. Good work :-)
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: sojo on February 09, 2009, 06:35:48 PM
Nice site. But some SEO (searchengine stuff) make a better title-tag (mainpage).
Nobody will search for Simutrans - Welcome. Use Simutrans - Freeware-Game or Simutrans a free Transportation Simulation (only 65 characters!).

The most stuff is really good. Google will love this site. Only you can give the links at top of the site a title tag.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: Tomas on February 09, 2009, 07:20:20 PM
Hi Igor, nice page!
But i see one small "bug":
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3569/snmek1xp2.th.png) (http://img26.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snmek1xp2.png)
My screensize is happen too big; i see i bottom of page green zone without texture.
And in Safari browser is this zone white.
(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/5214/safna8.th.png) (http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=safna8.png)

Can you fix this, please?

EDIT: 7 errors and 128 warnings (http://validator.w3.cz/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fsimutrans.com%2Fpaksets.htm) in (x)HTML validator... (http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/scare2.gif)
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: VS on February 09, 2009, 07:40:57 PM
Well it's xhtml interpreted as sent mimetype, which is text/html, so almost al <tag /> constructs are invalid. A bit overzealous check...

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fsimutrans.com%2Fpaksets.htm&charset=(detect+automatically)&doctype=Inline&group=0&user-agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.606

EDIT: Yeah, got it. Doctype needs small first HTML, or all is lost.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: Tomas on February 09, 2009, 07:53:28 PM
A bit overzealous check...

Im sorry 4 offtopic.
VS, this is right. When  is document declaration invalid, must validation of xHTML document ends with error (see documentation of xhtml1.0 language)

EDIT: Yeah, got it. Doctype needs small first HTML, or all is lost.
XHTML is evil!
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: prissi on February 09, 2009, 08:45:41 PM
Shouldn't this go on sourceforge to raise our rating there?
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: VS on February 09, 2009, 09:07:16 PM
Regardless of what I write below, the page is nice and works, apart from a few small quirks. And yes, we should have it on sourceforge, too. Or if any of our admins ever get time to do it, redirect the main domain to sf.net.



Ok, are we offtopic or not... probably yes. But as it all is related to the page, maybe not so fatally?

I am not saying the validator is wrong. I am saying it went too far. 128 warnings, and how about showing me the errors? I have to search in the output? Why could the "official" validator do that and this one not?

This is critcism of the program, not what it says about the page. All the errors are of course there. But the real number is 7, not 128.

On the subject of xhtml. Five years ago I would recommend it and argue. Three years ago I would suggest it as one of two alternatives, both with their pros and cons. Today I am not sure anymore what to think ;D I like how clean its rules are. But you get definitely less problems with strict html. The need to serve it with different mimetype (in http!) is the biggest obstacle. Switching to xhtml is not just "upgrade", it is also a slight shift of paradigm, and if people don't adjust to that, their xhtml will be always $^&%, because they don't think in terms of it. And that is the hard part.

Once it is written as xhtml, let's not break it just for the sake of it.

Should I try and tear apart the sources as well?
Quote
html > body > div #green > div #main > div #header > div .center > div .header_nav_menu
Why is the link bar five divs inside each other? Or rather, is there a reason to make it so? And why is the whole page in one div? You have the same background rule for div#green and body. And zero use of cascading, so it is all just "styles". That's why you need so many divs.

Anyway, that is all under the hood, and we don't have to care about that, as long as it validates, which is just a few clicks away.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: freegamer on March 03, 2009, 06:55:47 AM
Shouldn't this go on sourceforge to raise our rating there?

I dont think it needs to be on sf.net to raise the rating, you just need to display the logo (http://apps.sourceforge.net/trac/sitedocs/wiki/Use%20of%20sflogo%20for%20statistics%20tracking).
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: prissi on March 10, 2009, 10:13:08 PM
Recently the sf logo criterion has changed (and 102 has been released). It needs now to lik to: http://sourceforge.net/projects/simutrans (more information https://sourceforge.net/community/forum/topic.php?id=4666)

The following logos are available:
https://sourceforge.net/project/admin/logo.php?group_id=196471
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: IgorEliezer on March 17, 2009, 06:10:06 PM
Site has been updated.
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - changes
Post by: IgorEliezer on May 02, 2009, 05:44:48 PM
Little changes in Simutrans site:

Simutrans Development and History page has received some new images and a link to Simutrans Graphic Archive was added.

http://www.simutrans.com/development.htm

Bye
Title: Re: New Simutrans site - WIP version
Post by: Michael 'Cruzer' on May 23, 2009, 01:59:12 PM
Could you add pak192.comic to the paksets page?

(http://simutrans.bplaced.net/img/screen1s.png) (http://simutrans.bplaced.net/img/screen4s.png) (http://simutrans.bplaced.net/img/screen5s.png)

And what's with the http://192comic.simutrans.com/ ? Can I get the information for it?


Thanks,
Cruzer
Title: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on May 24, 2009, 02:18:11 AM
I've just included 192comic in Simutrans.com, but I need yet:

- 1 paragraph with description (3~4 lines);
- 3 full screenshots (see pak128).

About the domain: 192comic.simutrans.com is already working, but I need to transfer it for you. Sorry for delay. As you are seeing, our forum was hacked. :(

EDIT:

192comic.simutrans.com has been created.

EDIT 2:

PakSets page has received a little revamp: new links for sites and discussions, and a navigation bar.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on June 14, 2009, 01:40:24 PM
Simutrans site has received some changes:

- all: header has now more consistent behavior between FireFox and IE;
- index: aesthetics, better visualization and "SourceForge Community Choice Awards" button was removed;
- paksets: Museum was transferred to Development page, new nav-bar, pak192comic link updated.

http://www.simutrans.com
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Isaac.Eiland-Hall on June 14, 2009, 08:20:59 PM
IT'S ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE!

(where "horrible" means "looks great" ;-) )
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: vilvoh on June 14, 2009, 08:41:39 PM
Typical Evil-Isaac sense of humor.... ::)

Now serious, I really like the changes, specially the development section. very good work.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Isaac.Eiland-Hall on June 14, 2009, 08:59:38 PM
I try to keep y'all entertained. ;-)
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on June 15, 2009, 12:19:16 AM
It's just Isaac delivering a quote of nonsense on my request. :D



Simutrans site has received few more improvements:

- Tooltips was added into navigation bar, in the header.
- Simutrans facebook was added in Links page. (http://www.simutrans.com/links.htm)
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: prissi on June 22, 2009, 03:19:52 PM
Maybe the pak sets shoudl be sorted by size? I.e. first all pak64 then pak96 then the two pak64 or so. Or along popularity by SF-downloads? Currently the order is extremely random and probably confusing to a newbie, I feel. What does you think?
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on June 22, 2009, 03:33:34 PM
You had suggested me to sort by importance (what makes sense too):

The pak set should reflect their importance and uptodate state. I.e. First of course pak64 and pak128. Then pak96 and pakHajo.Evolution (or maybe this directly behind pak64) before featureing any sets for specific locations.

Following that I would suggest pak128.japan (complete) pak.german (at least playable). All the other are probably missing something or will not even start in 101. There should be a clear divider or a clear statement, which is the last version they run with.

I could use the following criteria: 1st, by size; 2nd: by theme. E.g.:

pak32.comic
pak64
pakGerman
pakHajo
pakJapan
pak96comic
pak128
pak128.Britain
pak192.comic
...

I feel strange with pak32.comic heading... :-\ I'll think about it later.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: vilvoh on June 22, 2009, 03:37:36 PM
Why not from older to younger?

pak64
pak128
pakHajo
pak32.comic
pak96comic
pak128.Britain
pak192.comic
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on June 22, 2009, 03:39:51 PM
This is the complete and current list:

pak64
pak128
pak96.comic
pak192.comic
pakHAJO Evolution
pak128.Japan
pakGerman
pakJapan
pak128.Britain
Abo Set
pakContrast
pakHD
pak32.comic
Other experiences

Feel free to give me suggestions.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Zeno on June 22, 2009, 03:41:22 PM
I agree size order is clear enough for everybody, from noobs to experts. And I like the size+theme sorting Igor suggested. But I really don't mind pak32.comic in the top... If I had to vote, I'd choose size+theme.

PS: Vilvoh has managed to get a "name size" sorting, wich is very nice at first sight :D

Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Zeno on June 30, 2009, 09:14:38 AM
I've noticed about this in the main web:
Code: [Select]
# Homepage:pak69 Homepage (german)Shouldn't it be pak96?
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: vilvoh on June 30, 2009, 09:31:47 AM
pak69 sounds more sexy, you know...  :-*
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Isaac.Eiland-Hall on June 30, 2009, 09:51:51 AM
lol... can't have pak69 until network gameplay works! hehe
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Zeno on June 30, 2009, 10:05:17 AM
lol... can't have pak69 until network gameplay works! hehe
Well... many games implement multiplayer with hot-seat instead of network... maybe it's not the same but... ;)
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Isaac.Eiland-Hall on June 30, 2009, 10:19:29 AM
"hot seat" indeed... o.O
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Zeno on June 30, 2009, 10:29:20 AM
"hot seat" indeed... o.O
(http://www.greensmilies.com/smile/smiley_emoticons_rofl3.gif)
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Colin on June 30, 2009, 09:43:00 PM
I'm going to report you all to the sex police :police: you naughty disgusting people. Anyway what does '69' mean, I seem to have forgotten. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: vilvoh on June 30, 2009, 09:47:02 PM
Anyway what does '69' mean, I seem to have forgotten. ;D ;D ;D

It's clear, 69 means 68 and you owe me one...there's no sexual connotations anywhere... ::)
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on July 02, 2009, 07:36:31 PM
A-HEM!

Simutrans Download page has received an important change. Now you can download Simutrans Complete, ready to play.

http://www.simutrans.com/download.htm

Comments are welcome. :)

EDIT: paksets links need to be fixed. I didn't know SourceForge had changed download system o.O'.

(communication lacks!)
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Frank on July 02, 2009, 08:01:04 PM
pakHAJO is not pakHAJO.evolution
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: z9999 on July 02, 2009, 08:12:24 PM
As I said before at here (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=1686.msg17512#msg17512), Windows version of Simutrans Complete is nightly version and translation text files are very old.
It should be replaced to new one.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on July 02, 2009, 09:36:33 PM
How can I say.... I discover things after "a while". (got it?)

We're having a lot of troubles because players and download sites that can't handle Simutrans' way of installing.

An important download site of Brazil, www.baixaki.com.br (http://www.baixaki.com.br), said Simutrans has a "complicated installation process" and "unhappily, although Simutrans is a good game, its installation is not very simple and friendly. It requests several steps and tasks to be accomplished manually by the user."

Then I "discoved" a Simutrans Complete, I tested and saw it worked (I saw "nightly" in title bar too, but I trusted in SF description), then I'm publishing on the site.

If somebody provided me a complete and trustful Simutrans for every OS, I'd be glad and we're getting rid of "OMG! Simutrans won't start. plz halp mee!!!111" topics.

pakHAJO is not pakHAJO.evolution

I followed what Hajo wrote in topic title (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=233.0) and it has been "pakHAJO.evolution" in board description, in forum index, for last 10 months:

Quote
Other paksets
Discussions and development of new pakset projects. (Current paks here: pak32.comic, pak128.Britain, pak192.comic, pakContrast, pakGerman, pakHajo Evolution and pakTTD) .

Unless, there are two pakHajo's, but I don't know.

Also: I've just discovered right now someone redirected http://simutrans.sourceforge.net/ to http://www.simutrans.com/. Thanks. I was almost asking it. :)
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: VS on July 02, 2009, 09:44:47 PM
...so we should probably ship exe with pak64 for the... not technically gifted?
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on July 02, 2009, 10:18:54 PM
I don't know any other kind of game you download incomplete and then you need to visit the site in order to make the game workable, like Simutrans. Otherwise, no game; no fun. It's not the first time someone complains at me that Simutrans is "complicated" to install.

Probably there are lots of download sites that provide only Simutrans executable without the paks, as I said (and we lose players at the source).

It's a good moment to think we should release a ready-to-play version for every stable, for every OS, besides the traditional way.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: jamespetts on July 02, 2009, 11:22:18 PM
The plan for Simutrans-Experimental in the long term is to make it available as a one-step install for the three major operating systems, incorporating the binaries, a fully compatible pakset, and Simutrans-Experimental specific help texts.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: TPIBAW on July 08, 2009, 12:03:33 AM
Suggestion: Release ready-to-play versions in both zips and installer?
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on July 08, 2009, 02:34:04 AM
This depends on devteam. Blender's downloads work in same way: http://www.blender.org/download/get-blender/

I made some changes in download page: http://www.simutrans.com/download.htm
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: vilvoh on July 08, 2009, 06:46:34 AM
The icons are really nice... ;D

I would use variations of the same color for Simutrans per parts section background.. i.e: bright blue for binaries section and dark blue for pakSets section.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on July 08, 2009, 07:13:29 AM
Have a look at this: http://www.simutrans.com/download-exp.htm

...it's just idea.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Zeno on July 08, 2009, 07:19:00 AM
Nice Igor, I like it... it makes muuuuch easier to understand. But maybe the colours could be improved :P
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on July 08, 2009, 07:23:17 AM
But maybe the colours could be improved :P

As I've said, it's just an idea. Colors were poorly chosen.

And the icons came from here: http://www.iconfinder.net/. I loved this site (Idea from Vilvoh)
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: vilvoh on July 08, 2009, 07:38:14 AM
cool!! now I hope people get the idea. For me it's clear, but people usually hate mathematics... ::)
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Colin on July 08, 2009, 08:49:18 AM
It's clear, 69 means 68 and you owe me one...there's no sexual connotations anywhere... ::)

Er! what do you mean 'sexual' is that something to do with the species? And, dont you mean69 is realy 70 and you owe me one?
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: VS on July 08, 2009, 09:22:29 AM
I like both changes, The first (already live) makes it easier to find the object of interest, and the second makes it graphically very clear :) Perhaps a small text for paksets saying "one or more" would help?

As to zip versus/plus installer, having it as a zip emphasises that it does not need installation to people who get ill even hearing "installer". It's a kind of added bonus, perhaps attracting the skilled ones... I certainly prefer software that can be unzipped and run.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: prissi on July 08, 2009, 11:13:15 AM
As there is also a mekobj for PowerPC for macs on the nightly page, maybe this needs change too.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: sojo on July 08, 2009, 11:49:54 AM
The last one is very nice and this can understand everybody. Nobody needs english to understand this. I like it.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: z9999 on July 08, 2009, 01:43:11 PM
How about removing incompatible paksets from PakSets list.
They don't work with v102 anymore.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: sojo on July 08, 2009, 05:38:01 PM
How about removing incompatible paksets from PakSets list.
They don't work with v102 anymore.

Or make a new box with older versions under the latest version-box!?
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on July 09, 2009, 02:25:30 AM
New changes:

http://www.simutrans.com/download.htm: new icons and new section arrangement.

http://www.simutrans.com/paksets.htm: new order.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on July 10, 2009, 10:11:18 AM
Another little secret.

I was thinking of creating a blog for whole Simutrans Community, where any member in charge of project or activity could post.

http://www.simutrans.com/index_news.html (it's just the index page with a link "News" that leads you to an existing blog)

We have some blogs out there, but nothing official, and we have enough people who have posted news frequently.

As there is also a makeobj for PowerPC for macs on the nightly page, maybe this needs change too.

But I didn't find makeobj for PowerPC at SourceForge page. I think a stable version of MakeObj could be hosted there, then I link it to simutrans.com.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: jamespetts on July 10, 2009, 11:12:47 AM
I like the 'blog idea!
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: vilvoh on July 10, 2009, 05:31:42 PM
Would be something like Simutrans Develoment blog, but a community level? Perhas there's a service like that at SourceForge..
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Isaac.Eiland-Hall on July 10, 2009, 05:36:44 PM
Could set up a Wordpress blog - that allows you to have multiple authors posting entries...
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: VS on July 10, 2009, 06:20:05 PM
The point is to have it integrated with the site seamlessly (design-wise), I presume?
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Michael 'Cruzer' on July 10, 2009, 06:25:26 PM
I don't have conact with blogs yet, but I would like a system like a news reader where every heads of the simutrans projects could post their news!
But it should be included in the homepage style!
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Isaac.Eiland-Hall on July 10, 2009, 06:27:18 PM
Well, using the current design requires finding a tool that can be templated - and WordPress can be... *shrug*

There's other solutions, for sure...
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on July 10, 2009, 06:32:48 PM
Good things are always more than welcome.

My idea came from two things:

1) "Someone" said we need to create a feeling of a community (I can't say who is someone because it was mentioned "privately" :-[);

2) And:

6.  No news?  People love news.  There should be at least an RSS of the download forum or something similar.  

The FreeCol website (http://www.freecol.org/) is an example of a great front page.  Everything is obvious, easy to parse at a glance.

The blog would work like BlenderNation does (http://www.blendernation.com/ at http://www.blender.org/). Not all members would post, but a restrict group would; visitor could post comments.

Can we discuss about it here or elsewhere?

EDIT:

but I would like a system like a news reader where every heads of the simutrans projects could post their news!

You got my idea. ;D The blog wouldn't be only for Simutrans Developers, but for any member is charge of an activity.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: vilvoh on July 10, 2009, 06:44:52 PM
The RSS feeds are a great idea, but that means we need to update the website very often, so I don't know if that would be very comfortable. I don't know if you can create a RSS channel with having a website, at Feedburner i.e...Anyway, I already suggested having a twitter account related with Simutrans news. It's extremly dinamic, easy to update and only allows you 140 characters, so I guess it wouldn't be annoying to write short news each day. On the other hand, a blog it's also dinamic but needs a little bit more maintenance work, thus as you prefer, I will support and if possible I'll take part in both solutions.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: VS on July 10, 2009, 06:55:44 PM
Hmhm... maybe robofish could help with something? There was something Isaac had on the previous forum, "Devotee news", it was crude but worked... That's all we could need, assuming the authors can write html (come on, is it harder than forum bbcode?).
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on July 10, 2009, 07:01:34 PM
I don't think we need to post everyday. I want just a place where any project leader, developer, devotee, moderator and admin can post what they think is important to post. If there's nothing to post, post nothing.

I prefer a system where we can post short texts and it's possible to attach a photo or video *and* easier for a visitor of Simutrans.com to find what happens in the community. Something friendly "catchable" and more visible for visitors (sample http://www.blendernation.com/2009/07/01/blender-25-overview-video/).
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Spike on July 10, 2009, 07:58:42 PM
1) "Someone" said we need to create a feeling of a community (I can't say who is someone because it was mentioned "privately" :-[);

I think several people share this idea. I'm just bad lately at contributing to the community feeling.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on July 10, 2009, 08:07:16 PM
I think several people share this idea.

I share too and I agree with you. So that I'm trying to take some actions to solve this situation.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: jamespetts on July 10, 2009, 08:59:03 PM
I thought that we already had a feeling of community? Not that we can't make it even better, of course.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Spike on July 10, 2009, 09:07:16 PM
I think the "make it better" was what we meant. For me, it will mean to try to spend more time here, and try to get involved better. I can't say though, if I'll have the time and energy to do that, but I think it'd be the right thing to do.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: Isaac.Eiland-Hall on July 10, 2009, 09:51:34 PM
I think the "make it better" was what we meant. For me, it will mean to try to spend more time here, and try to get involved better. I can't say though, if I'll have the time and energy to do that, but I think it'd be the right thing to do.

I'd love to see you around more -- which is not to say I think you're withholding yourself from the community. I've been glad to see you around; but of course I'd love to see you around even more, is what I mean to say. ;-)

Conversely, don't spend more time than you have. It's a lesson I've begun to learn as I've tried to balance work, school, and the things I want to do... :)

Also, on the topic at hand -- I'm all for trying to come up with new ideas to make things *better*. Taht doesn't mean things are *bad* at all - but always striving for improvement is a Good Thing in my book :D
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on July 10, 2009, 10:27:57 PM
I think the "make it better" was what we meant.

Yes. What I'm focusing is better communication among community members *and* between community and visitors of Simutrans.com, is to attract more new people and so.

I got to go. Later I treat more about.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on July 16, 2009, 03:47:57 PM
I created a beta test site, so I can test and receive feedbacks before replacing the current one:

http://www.simutrans.com/newsite/index.html

(WARNING: DO NOT advertise this address above, because I can remove this site without notice)
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: prissi on July 16, 2009, 04:13:28 PM
Not sure if the team email still works. ANd I would make the sourceforge project page a real link on the about page.
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com
Post by: IgorEliezer on July 16, 2009, 04:20:35 PM
Not sure if the team email still works.

Hmm... I found that e-mail in Simutrans splash screen, when you start Simutrans up. Anyway, it's interesting we have an e-mail (example: http://www.freecol.org/contact.html)

ANd I would make the sourceforge project page a real link on the about page.

Currently that text is there just for placeholder; it's far from final version. I think of transferring it to Development page (http://www.simutrans.com/newsite/development.htm).
Title: Re: Simutrans site - www.simutrans.com (old topic)
Post by: IgorEliezer on October 04, 2009, 01:40:05 PM
Huge topic is huge.

Locking this one, and creating a new one: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=3434.0