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PakSets and Customization => Pak128 => Topic started by: ny911 on October 05, 2014, 09:22:09 AM

Title: more headquarters
Post by: ny911 on October 05, 2014, 09:22:09 AM
In the game there is the possibility to build two different stages of development of the headquarters. This has no effect for the transportation network  (lines, stops, goods, passengers ) of the player.  Uses in scenarios, headquarters can be used to create real visible targets for the human user. Unfortunately, there are only two types of headquarter and I'm a real bad painter.

Is it conceivable to include more than two headquarters. Increasing the construction cost significantly  ( 4*  or more for each level) would give the user even in complex and large maps with a lot of cash flow more goals.
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: gauthier on October 05, 2014, 10:07:12 AM
As far as I know, headquarters does have effect on the network, they attract passengers and mails as any other building would do. Obviously it would be great to have more headquarters but we need painters to make them, currently we are not enough people working on pak128 to care about HQ now. Unless someone paints some, there won't be more headquarters in a long time :(
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: ny911 on October 05, 2014, 03:11:57 PM
You are right, headquarters effect the network.

Well, in the sourceforge I found the headquarters png and dat. For each headquarter there is only one image version. Does it mean that headquarters didn't need a summer and winter version and all four views?
Or are this images only from the old version of simutrans and didn't have it?
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: gauthier on October 05, 2014, 09:11:20 PM
Like all buildings, headquarters can have up to four orientations and a winter image as well. I guess their authors didn't have enough time or just didn't want to make so much work.
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: ny911 on October 17, 2014, 07:35:28 PM
So here are two headquarter images (only one view, no winter version) based on the headquarter images in the pak128 source. Yes, I know there is still a lot to do to get a great image.

HQ small: image from MHz, changed unknown area around to green area with trees, a old fence and a second vehicle

HQ medium: image from Rmax500, downsized skyscraper image to get a medium building



Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: gauthier on October 17, 2014, 08:54:29 PM
Very nice work for the small HQ. About the medium one, downgrading the original skyscraper is not a bad idea, upgrading the HQ by upgrading the building itself is obvious here. This medium HQ would be nice enough if it gets a texture on the roof. One or two more HQ levels between your medium one and the full height one would be perfect. Please send me your files as soon as it's finished so I can add these to the pak. Thanks for your work !
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: Fabio on October 17, 2014, 10:48:15 PM
Good job! It would be nice though to remove the grass at least from the small one, in order to fit all climates.


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Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: gauthier on October 18, 2014, 10:08:06 AM
The problem, if grass is removed, is that the trees (which could be diversified by the way) will look weird in some climates like desert. Making grass "fade out" at the borders of the HQ could be a solution.
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: ny911 on October 18, 2014, 02:35:36 PM
new images below.

- HQ00 = small one
- HQ01 = small skyscraper
- HQ02 = medium skyscraper

Link to source: http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/hq_2014oct18v1.zip (http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/hq_2014oct18v1.zip)

ground: since the player can change the climates for each tile, it's his work to to. Or?
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: gauthier on October 18, 2014, 02:48:53 PM
To my mind, the only work of a player is playing although it's okay like that, it's not a big deal. If you think your headquarters are finished, I can add them immediately to the pak128 source, but the next release of pak128 is not planned yet.
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: ny911 on October 18, 2014, 04:39:28 PM
> If you think your headquarters are finished

Yes they are finished. You will have to edit the dat file to add to the pak.
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: Sarlock on October 18, 2014, 04:40:13 PM
I've always had indecision when it comes to removing ground (grass/lawn) to allow the climate colour to come through.  While it fits a bit better with the climate zone, it doesn't look as nice as a nicely manicured lawn does.

ny911: How about snow versions?
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: vorlon on October 18, 2014, 05:13:48 PM
I think a good compromise is having a strip of pavement or some other obstruction between the nicely cut lawn and the natural terrain. This works especially well with large, urban structures which usually have a very well maintained yard regardless of the climate conditions.
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: Fabio on October 18, 2014, 08:34:17 PM
Winter (snow) version would be very appreciated. Small looks great, the other could use a stripe of pavement as Sarlock suggested.


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Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: ny911 on October 18, 2014, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: Sarlock on October 18, 2014, 04:40:13 PMny911: How about snow versions?
Well, I will try it. But making this images shows me that I'm a much better at coding databases, C/C++ or squirrel scenario scripts. So I will have to search for a good description to make the snow version.

lawn or ground climates: What about two small HQs? Like a small upgrade.
- one with no bench, no red car, no way lights and no lawn
- second width bench, rad car, way lights, bigger corrugated iron hall, well green lawn, maybe a flag ...

Quotestripe of pavement
What kind of pavement? Where?
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: gauthier on October 19, 2014, 09:27:06 AM
QuoteWhat about two small HQs
Let's try that.

About the stripe of pavement : on the border of the building to have a limit between lawn and climate-dependant terrain.
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: ny911 on October 20, 2014, 12:32:54 PM
here are two small versions:
- hq_00a.png  without lawn and small corrugated iron hall
- hq_00b.png bigger corrugated iron hall, lawn, more stuff
- hq_01.png as example off all three skyscraper with south border  pavement

http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/hq_2014oct20v2.zip (http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/hq_2014oct20v2.zip)
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: gauthier on October 21, 2014, 08:58:07 PM
Your work is really amazing ! The texture you used for lawn looks like an outdated version of pak128 grass. You will find current ones here (http://svn.code.sf.net/p/simutrans/code/pak128/landscape/grounds/texture-climate.png).
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: ny911 on October 21, 2014, 10:05:52 PM
Thanks for the link. Here is the hq_00b.png with new grass "Mediterran".  But now it will not be a different kind of grass in the "Mediterran" climate.  Does it matter? Is it possible to use different climate versions of the HQs? So we can give them different kind grass/lawn and trees.

Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: Yona-TYT on October 22, 2014, 12:59:11 AM
Excellent work...  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: gauthier on October 22, 2014, 05:39:27 PM
The only way to change a building according to climates is making several versions of it, each one being restricted to one climate. This is easy for public buildings (citybuildings, curiosities, etc ...), but impossible for player buildings such as HQ, unfortunately.

You should try making your mediterranean grass "fade out" on the borders of the building, letting the natural grass appear. Look at the borders of the 60 km/h track's ballast (http://svn.code.sf.net/p/simutrans/code/pak128/infrastructure/rail_tracks/rail_060_tracks.png) to see what I am talking about.
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: Zeno on October 22, 2014, 07:34:59 PM
Those HQs look great, fantastic work ny911!

Btw, I don't know if it could be applied to these HQs, but what about using the needs_ground flag to make the game use the appropriate ground?
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: ny911 on October 23, 2014, 08:15:13 PM
here is a picture with "fade out" grass of the small HQ.
Thank's for the needs_ground flag information, yes it will be needed for correct dat files.
What about useful amounts of the "level" flag of each HQ?

Quotebut impossible for player buildings such as HQ, unfortunately.
This is pity, but also has the advantage, that I do not need so much variants of this HQ.

Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: gauthier on October 24, 2014, 03:39:58 PM
The levels of the two HQ currently in pak128 are 1 and 11. To my mind, an exponential growth is the best for this kind of object, let's say 1,2,4,8,16 for your five HQs ?
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: Fabio on October 25, 2014, 09:36:06 AM
Agreed!


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Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: ny911 on October 25, 2014, 03:40:06 PM
attached Version 3 of HQ images with:
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/hq_2014oct25v3.zip
edit: http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/hq_2014oct25v4.zip (http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/hq_2014oct25v4.zip)

HQ levels: 1,2,4,8,16,32  or  1,2,4,16,32,64
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: gauthier on October 25, 2014, 05:58:44 PM
Nice. Could you try varying types of trees on small HQs ?
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: ny911 on October 26, 2014, 01:42:45 PM
attached Version 5 of HQ images with:
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/hq_2014oct26v5.zip (http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/hq_2014oct26v5.zip)
example images:(http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/view_07.jpg)

(http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/view_06.jpg)
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: gauthier on October 26, 2014, 04:20:33 PM
Awesome ! I'm adding this version to pak128.

EDIT : in fact no, too much work on .dat files.

Please correct following points :
_ Type=hq instead of Type=cur
_ remove "passengers", "chance" and "intro_year" parameters (useless for a hq)
_ winter graphics go in the same .dat, not in a separate building.

example :
Quote### summer view ###
BackImage[0][0][0][0][0][0]=hq01.0.0
BackImage[0][0][1][0][0][0]=hq01.0.1
BackImage[0][0][2][0][0][0]=hq01.0.2
BackImage[0][1][0][0][0][0]=hq01.1.0
BackImage[0][1][1][0][0][0]=hq01.1.1
BackImage[0][1][2][0][0][0]=hq01.1.2
BackImage[0][2][0][0][0][0]=hq01.2.0
BackImage[0][2][1][0][0][0]=hq01.2.1
BackImage[0][2][2][0][0][0]=hq01.2.2
### winter view ###
BackImage[0][0][0][0][0][1]=hq01w.0.0
etc ...

I just noticed there's a parameter called "hq_level", let me find out what is it and if it has anything to do with "level".
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: Sarlock on October 26, 2014, 04:41:57 PM
Very nicely done!  Nice trees, too  ;)
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: ny911 on October 26, 2014, 04:49:06 PM
parameter:
hq_level=  the level, better the number of the HQ which is build
level= amount of passenger level

Quote"intro_year" parameters (useless for a hq)
I'm not sure, but in pak128.Britain it look's like it works

dat file is in progress ...

Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: gauthier on October 26, 2014, 05:33:17 PM
Quotehq_level=  the level, better the number of the HQ which is build
I understand that. What I want to figure out is which level defines the cost of the HQ. Anyway, let's keep the exponential growth for "level" (1,2,4,8,16) and an ordinary increase rate for hq_level (1,2,3,4,5) ?

There is actually no introduction date for pak128's headquarters, I think it's better not to put restrictive parameters like intro_date.
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: ny911 on October 26, 2014, 08:23:07 PM
attached the dat file. for icon and cursor it's still needs the player-hq-128.png

Quoteordinary increase rate for hq_level (1,2,3,4,5)
changed to : 0,1,2,3,4,5

Quotel growth for "level"
Well thats not as easy as I thought. Now it is set to: 8,16,32,64,128,256

Using the standard cost_multiply_headquarter=1000 the price level is to low and I'm not sure, the level=256 is about 14.000 more citizens might be to much.

calc of the price: "cost_multiply_headquarter * tile_size * (level - 1)"
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: gauthier on October 26, 2014, 09:33:14 PM
QuoteUsing the standard cost_multiply_headquarter=1000
This can be changed easily.

I just figured out I was completely mistaken between level and hq_level the first time I talked about setting levels ... To make it clear :
Currently in pak128 :
HQ1 : level=11; hq_level=0
HQ2 : level=91; hq_level=1

The formula you gave looks good indeed.
So "level" defines two things : passenger level of the HQ and its cost. As the cost can be corrected with a multiplier, the first thing to fix is the passenger level. This is (level)*(number of tiles) = 9*level.

Most curiosities are about 100 (~11 for a 9 tile building). If we use 1,2,4,8,16; that would make 9 passengers/mail for the first HQ and 144 passengers/mail for the biggest one. Maybe this is still few ... let's say 2,4,8,16,32 so this would range from 18 p/m to 288 p/m ?

About the cost : A big station hall costs 9000. Applying 9000 to the first headquarter makes the biggest one cost 144k ... I think it could be more expansive. What about 45k for the first headquarter and 720k for the biggest ? 720k is still much affordable for a player with a well developed network. This would make the multiplier equal to 2500. (I know it's level-1 and not level in the formula, I found it easier to work with this approximation).
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: ny911 on October 26, 2014, 11:43:55 PM
Quotelet's say 2,4,8,16,32 so this would range from 18 p/m to 288 p/m ?
Sounds good if you mean: 2,4,8,16,32,64
All together, there are six HQ buildings.

My attention is to have for small and for a well developed networks headquarters with a price level that's gives the player a financial target. In other words the first HQ is cheap and the last one will cost multiple more than any highspeed train. Like in the real world you can start in a barrack ... until you buildup a skyscraper.

biggest HQ: 9 * (64-1) * 2500 ~ 1.417k
That's still less, I compare it with trains:
a four station long "RENFE Class 447" train is more then 1.000k
a four station long "BR-373 Eurostar" train more than 2.213k
a two station long "RVg 0-4-0T" bulk train (year 1901)  about 88k

To give small network player a small price, what about:
level:2,4,8,32,64,128
multiplier:10.000
Result: first 90k, ..., last 11.430k
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: gauthier on October 27, 2014, 11:50:17 AM
Quotelevel:2,4,8,32,64,128
multiplier:10.000
Result: first 90k, ..., last 11.430k
Multiplier is 5000 here, anyway this sounds really good. It would be great to have something between the big barrack and the small building (level 16). Have you tried making a new building from scratch ?
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: ny911 on October 27, 2014, 06:48:12 PM
QuoteMultiplier is 5000 here
no, 10.000
"cost_multiply_headquarter * tile_size * (level - 1)"
e.g. small HQ (level=2) : 10.000 * 9 * (2- 1 ) = 90.000

edit:
I didn't have tried scratch, may be in future. And yes a building (level 16) may be done in the future. I'm not sure what kind will be the best.
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: gauthier on October 27, 2014, 09:09:00 PM
Quote- 1)
forgot this one again  :-[

I'm adding your headquarters.

EDIT : done (revision 1490). The multiplier was already equal to 10,000 in simuconf although it became 1,000 in game, so I increased it to 100,000 in simuconf (10,000 in game).
EDIT² : modifying the multiplier in simuconf had no effect in game (even after having started a new map, of course), the multiplier must be in another file :/
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: ny911 on October 28, 2014, 11:26:04 PM
QuoteEDIT² : modifying the multiplier in simuconf had no effect in game (even after having started a new map, of course), the multiplier must be in another file
I'm not sure (I'm sure) but on the simuconf at
http://sourceforge.net/p/simutrans/code/HEAD/tree/pak128/pak128.prototype/config/
the first char is a "#" so this will not effect something.
The effect without will be on a new game and not at the startup game, there is a difference on the loading parameters. Ans in the new game it fit.
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: gauthier on October 29, 2014, 09:58:03 AM
Quotethe first char is a "#" so this will not effect something.
Indeed, you are right. So the problem is fixed and your headquarters are now fully operational ;) (pak128 revision 1491) Thanks a lot for your contribution !
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on October 29, 2014, 03:36:25 PM
Quote from: gauthier on October 27, 2014, 09:09:00 PM
the multiplier must be in another file :/

Just like in Super Mario Brothers, the princess is in another castle. :)
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: VS on November 07, 2014, 01:58:21 PM
Beautiful :)
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: ny911 on November 08, 2014, 03:02:53 PM
works all fine, HQ prices are okay.
checked with pak128 r1491 and simutrans r7358, thanks.
Title: Re: more headquarters
Post by: gauthier on November 08, 2014, 08:06:52 PM
Thank you for these headquarters ;)