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PakSets and Customization => Pak128 Add-ons and Graphics => Pak128 => Pak128 Incorporated Add-ons and Graphics => Topic started by: Fabio on February 14, 2009, 03:24:48 PM

Title: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 14, 2009, 03:24:48 PM
main pak will include bridges (and tunnels) for all speeds, once i finish my tracks replacement ;)
it's around 60% done, but time is painfully fast and painting is painfully slow, ihihihih
Title: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Mac_#71 on February 15, 2009, 01:24:46 PM
Already we are talking about high-speed, what about 400 km / h-tunnels?
Title: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: gauthier on February 15, 2009, 01:28:29 PM
in my future projects already ... but I want to finish High buildings first.
Title: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 15, 2009, 04:41:58 PM
Already we are talking about high-speed, what about 400 km / h-tunnels?

they will be there!!!
guys, i'm working on it, i'll try to resume works, now that i finished with rivers ;)
Title: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: gauthier on February 15, 2009, 05:44:54 PM
Quote
guys, i'm working on it, i'll try to resume works, now that i finished with rivers Wink

Nice, one thing less to do for me :D
Title: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 15, 2009, 05:57:32 PM
well, we could also talk and try to work together to make it better and faster... If you're interested, we can open a new thread on pak 128 board... let me know, i'll show you my plan!!! (the task is huge, although i worked already a lot on it...)
Title: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: gauthier on February 15, 2009, 06:18:32 PM
I have idea for bridge and elevated way but not for tunnel :D
Title: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 15, 2009, 07:57:20 PM
well, i already have most of tunnels.
we need to open the new thread. I'll split this one and we'll continue here.
Before painting, i need to brief you and other willful collaborators on the whole traks replacement as planned, i'll post it tomorrow ;)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: gauthier on February 15, 2009, 09:50:50 PM
I don't agree for track replacement, according to me current tracks are enough good.

However, roads should be replaced. For example, joker roads should replace default roads.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 16, 2009, 07:13:45 AM
However, roads should be replaced. For example, joker roads should replace default roads.
I'm not saying they are bad, only they are not consistent in graphical style. I have already 7 new tracks (50, 70, 120, 160, 240, 320 and 400 kmph) with consistent graphics. They will include snow for winter, as well. My plan is to make tunnels (entrances and underground view) for each of them: most of entrances are already done. Also bridges will match these speeds, using the consistent track (sleepers, ballast, track). I planned to use all (or most of) existing bridges, with a few needed changes and paint new ones for high speed, one tile wide, and including elevated tracks to allow more complex design for high speed.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: gauthier on February 16, 2009, 12:33:06 PM
What do you mean by consistant graphic ?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on February 16, 2009, 01:05:34 PM
I have been creating rail bridge for speed 400 km/h too - in two versions.

1st version is similar to bridge from picture
(http://archive.forum.simutrans.com/topic/04100.0/06573/simscr10.PNG)
but less pillars. It should be for cities and with length limited to 16 tiles.

2nd version is similar to this
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7798/52944552ol7.jpg)
It shoud be mainly for country ways and less limited length - but with pillars, of course.

The first development screens (less track - but at home I have playable demo of the first version - with many graphical bugs):

(http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=67.0;attach=5017;image)
original one of covered bridge - coverage had to be changed because in game transparency almost died

(http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=67.0;attach=5019;image)
pillars have to changed (their shape of pillars is not quite good - I have to simplify it; in this version it is resized pillar of the first version)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Silver on March 05, 2009, 01:42:05 AM
hi!

hello, I have this bridge completed but I can't finish the process, someone could help me finish the process to make it addon for the pak 128 or pak 64
¡I share the copyrights! with the person to help me

Puente_1.2.rar (http://www.4shared.com/file/89895170/8f9930cd/Puente_12.html)

En mi idioma español (in my language spanish):
hola, he terminado este puente, pero no puedo terminar el proceso, alguien me podría ayudar a terminar el proceso para que sea addon de los Pak 128 ó pak 64
comparto los derechos de autor con la persona que me ayude

(http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=720.0;attach=5431)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: The Hood on March 05, 2009, 09:06:39 AM
Wow that looks impressive!  I might be tempted to have a go at a pak128 version.

One problem I can see is that the dimensions won't easily fit on one tile (the bridge span is much longer than it is wide)...

Also is it for road or rail (or both?)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: ASV62 on March 05, 2009, 01:33:37 PM
I have been creating rail bridge for speed 400 km/h too - in two versions.

1st version is similar to bridge from picture
(http://archive.forum.simutrans.com/topic/04100.0/06573/simscr10.PNG)
but less pillars. It should be for cities and with length limited to 16 tiles.

2nd version is similar to this
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7798/52944552ol7.jpg)
It shoud be mainly for country ways and less limited length - but with pillars, of course.

The first development screens (less track - but at home I have playable demo of the first version - with many graphical bugs):

(http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=67.0;attach=5017;image)
original one of covered bridge - coverage had to be changed because in game transparency almost died

(http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=67.0;attach=5019;image)
pillars have to changed (their shape of pillars is not quite good - I have to simplify it; in this version it is resized pillar of the first version)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/asv62/Simutrans/simscr51800x600.png)
Are you making something like this?  ;D
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: poldislaf on March 05, 2009, 03:03:49 PM
I like the idea about bridges etc. and making more types of track.

How about making also a doubletrack rail? The roads are already in two directions on one square, tracks not. I'd really appreciate that. Same with trams, but that is far complicated.

Another idea was improving the crossings of rails- now the T connection looks like this: I>-. Sometimes only one-way connections could be used, like this: I\_ Actually it is of no use, it only looks more realistic.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Spike on March 05, 2009, 03:45:19 PM
How about making also a doubletrack rail? The roads are already in two directions on one square, tracks not. I'd really appreciate that. Same with trams, but that is far complicated.

The signals will not work well with double track railways (they'd always affect both rails).
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Silver on March 06, 2009, 02:07:53 AM
One problem I can see is that the dimensions won't easily fit on one tile (the bridge span is much longer than it is wide)...

Have to adjust, but I think it comes down to pak 64

Also is it for road or rail (or both?)

Road
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Silver on March 06, 2009, 02:18:57 AM
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/asv62/Simutrans/simscr51800x600.png)
Are you making something like this?  ;D

wow  :o, I like, I want one  ;D! Where did you download?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on March 06, 2009, 09:48:58 AM
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/asv62/Simutrans/simscr51800x600.png)
Are you making something like this?  ;D
Yes. I try to make someone like that - but work on bridges temporarily stopped due to problems with coverage of this bridge
(http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=67.0;attach=5017;image)

:) but I have been preparing one side platforms station for some time.

Download of one side platforms station available here:
http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=5475 (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=5475) (version 1)
http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=5521 (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=5521) (version 2)

They are not perfect - but it is my the first playable deed.

hi!

hello, I have this bridge completed but I can't finish the process, someone could help me finish the process to make it addon for the pak 128 or pak 64
¡I share the copyrights! with the person to help me

Puente_1.2.rar (http://www.4shared.com/file/89895170/8f9930cd/Puente_12.html)
(http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=720.0;attach=5431)

I am not right person to help you due to I am beginner in creation of graphics for Simutrans too - but in case of this bridge I see that road should not be curved (bowed). In game it could give very strange effect - because cars of all sizes and shapes would go through road.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Spike on March 06, 2009, 10:41:15 AM
In game it could give very strange effect - because cars of all sizes and shapes would go through road.

The visual effect would more resemble the cars doing a slight curve, or circle segment on the bridge. But they wouldn't be clipped from below.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: The Hood on March 07, 2009, 12:09:57 AM
Unfortunately I'm not sure the sort of bridge you drew will work well in simutrans (it's a very nice bridge, just it won't fit nicely onto one tile!).  Here's a preview of what it would look like, but as you can see, the shape is very distorted for it to fit to a road tile.  Unless the code can be changed to allow bridges to be made of several different images in length, then there's not much else I can do with it I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Silver on March 07, 2009, 01:34:25 AM
I use blender to create the bridge

Unfortunately if have a small curve in the middle of the bridge and it is my fault for forgetting the graphical of the game, But, if you can change, although is a little difficult why I am a beginner in blender :-\

sorry for my english, I speak spanish
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: The Hood on March 07, 2009, 10:01:28 AM
The curve isn't much of a problem.  The problem is that your bridge looks good long and thin, but to fit on a tile it must be the same length as width (problem of the game, not your graphics).
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: gauthier on March 07, 2009, 10:12:01 AM
I won't work on it while High buildings won't be finished but this are my ideas for track replacement :

1) currently we have :
WAYS
_ 65 km/h rail => old graphics, should be remade
_ 110 km/h rail => old graphics, should be remade
_ 160 km/h rail => old graphics, should be remade
_ 280 km/h rail
_ 400 km/h rail

First I think a 320 or 330 km/h rail should be added.

BRIDGES
_ 30 km/h bridge => doesn't fit to any way, not very nice, should be removed
_ 60 km/h bridge => should be increased to 65 km/h to fit to the corresponding way
_ 75 km/h bridge => nice but have a graphical problem : nothing can be built under (test you will see what I mean)
_ 95 km/h bridge => not very nice and doesn't fit to any way, should be removed
_ 110 km/h bridge
_ 160 km/h bridge
_ 300 km/h bridge => not nice and doesn't fit well to 280 km/h rail, should be removed
_ 400 km/h bridge (addon)

Can be created : a 280 km/h bridge (I have ideas for it) and 320/330 km/h bridge for the new rail.

TUNNELS
_ a tunnel by Timothy but I can't remember its speed ... (about 110 km/h so ... nice)
_ 280 km/h tunnel => nice enough, can be kept.

So tunnels for all other ways are needed.

ELEVATED WAYS
They're existing only in pak128 Japan, I think we could create one per way (but nicer than the ones in pak Japan !).
(for 280 km/h one too, I have my idea ...)

Do you thinks it's enough work ?  ;D
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Zeno on March 07, 2009, 02:17:07 PM
That's enough work to enslave all current painters for a while ;D
IMHO, I would really change 110kmh rails to 120, and maybe insert one between 65 and 120. I think it will really be better because there are a lot of trains having a max speed of 120kmh, so it would be optimal for them. That's it, I think there should be more variety of railways (I like very much Fabio's plans (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=1519.msg15539#msg15539) at first page), but as I don't think I'm painting any of them, I won't complain :D
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: gauthier on March 07, 2009, 02:45:35 PM
... for all trains : they rarely reach their maximum speed, the better is to make run 120 km/h trains on 110 km/h rail, they can reach 110 km/h much more quickly than 120, their speed is more stable and the traffic is more stable too.

plus : they consume less ;)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on March 19, 2009, 12:10:45 PM
I won't work on it while High buildings won't be finished but this are my ideas for track replacement :

1) currently we have :
WAYS
_ 160 km/h rail => old graphics, should be remade

While I have problems with coverage of called bridge, I prepared own way for it and so I could finish work on that way - add crossings, diagonal parts and one tile curves. Basic parts (seen on picture of double track tunnel) and slope parts have been already done.

BRIDGES
_ 400 km/h bridge (addon)
Yes - but coverage could be slightly better shaped.

TUNNELS
So tunnels for all other ways are needed.

Tunnels for other speeds are ready here: http://minami-fukuoka.simutrans.net/english/addon128/double-track_tunnel.html (http://minami-fukuoka.simutrans.net/english/addon128/double-track_tunnel.html). They are doubletrack tunnels but one for speed 450 km/h doesn't fit well - mainly on track for speed 400 km/h.
(http://minami-fukuoka.simutrans.net/img/double-track_tunnel128.png)

Else replacement is needed on electrification - one for speed 400 km/h does not fit on other ones - because electricity carrying wire is higher than on electrification for speeds 110 and 280 km/h - and upper electrification for speed 160 km/h is needed too (this I called in topic Upper electrification - http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=1486.0 (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=1486.0)).
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: gauthier on March 19, 2009, 07:09:39 PM
about tunnels :

they are only two speeds and they don't fit to a way.
plus : they're really ugly :/
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on March 24, 2009, 09:52:29 AM
New (alternative) track for speed 160 km/h and one new bridge (for 400 km/h but with track for 160 km/h - so max speed could be changed).

To do on this pack:
- improve rails on back slopes (both - on bridge and also on way)
- improve diagonal parts (only way)
- improve costs (both)

Intro year of way: 1945

Intro year of bridge: 1990
Max length of bridge: 16 tiles

I hope called two graphical bugs on way are all.

Here you can dowload newer versions of both:
Version #2 (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1179.0;attach=5917)
Track has got new face
Version #3 (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1179.0;attach=5930)
Track has got winter version and bridge has got new face with night lighting
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: gauthier on March 27, 2009, 04:43:29 PM
hum I'm not mad ... your tracks are red ...?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Silver on March 27, 2009, 06:02:09 PM
I like it, is quite original, there is only one small detail that I do not like long, the diagonal lines be are very close to each other, perhaps by eliminating some were interspersed a little better

in the last picture shows a small graphical error Can you fix it?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: gauthier on March 27, 2009, 06:30:36 PM
The second bug exists for ALL bridges ...
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Silver on March 27, 2009, 06:50:57 PM
What is your opinion on the first picture, looks better with some lines separated as the yellow box, or as they are in the red?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: gauthier on March 28, 2009, 09:11:48 PM
I don't like this bridge, a such as bridge wouldn't exist in real life, it's a far to simple shape and ... are thare fences on the bridge ??? very strange ...
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on March 30, 2009, 09:04:35 AM
I know about what is called in this picture
(http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1519.0;attach=5978;image)
but it is problem of game. I tried to eliminate it but it caused else problem (then the first tile by bridge could be only in same direction like bridge) - because when there diagonal or curve, then track is broken).

New version of ... track and covered bridge could be downloaded here:
http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1179.0;attach=6052 (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1179.0;attach=6052)

This pack includes:
- new version of track (does not lighting at night)
- winter version of track (included into *.pak file of track; automatically built when needed)
- new version of covered bridge (coverage face improved, also now in player's color)
- tunnel for speed 160 km/h
- winter version of tunnel (included into *.pak file of track; automatically built when needed)
- bridge like this
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/102788163_0aa5c75b5d.jpg)
but pillars are connected upon below track instead above (see source picture below) - and max. speed temporarily set on 400 km/h

(http://graphics.simutrans.com/albums/userpics/10043/MostLanovy.png)

Very bad coverage of bridge will be replaced after I will find way how to prepare coverage like on this station
(http://graphics.simutrans.com/albums/userpics/10003/player-station_3-128.png)
in my editor.

-->
But here you can download complete set for speed 160 km/h (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1316.0;attach=6105).

It includes:
- track (you don't need it if you have already downloaded track from link above in this post)
- tunnel (you don't need it if you have already downloaded track from link above in this post)
- electrification (added last weekend)
- suspension bridge
- cable-stayed bridge (new speed set - decreased to 160 km/h)

And here you can download latest version of bridge for speed 400 km/h (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1179.0;attach=6066) (this archive includes also both bridges for speed 160 km/h)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Silver on April 06, 2009, 07:24:57 PM
¿how it looks in the game seen from near and far?
R= here this

Near
(http://www.postimage.org/aV1h9Ew0.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1h9Ew0)
Far
(http://www.postimage.org/Pq1ggZkJ.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1ggZkJ)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: vilvoh on April 07, 2009, 06:38:56 AM
The second one starting from the bottom looks great!
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on April 07, 2009, 11:41:15 AM
I beg your pardon for this: the second one? The second bridge? But which second bridge? Do you think the second version of covered bridge or do you think suspension bridge? (it is the second one too - counted from the second version of covered bridge). I could do suspension bridge also for roads (but at first I have to find their width) and then this road suspension bridge
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/asv62/Simutrans/simscr51800x600.png)
would not be in need. Carriage construction of that bridge on end tiles is very imperfect.

But I see I have to improve pillars of suspension bridge to all of them be brown. I am sorry for this bug. I think I know where is origin of this bug.

I had to place pillar of suspension bridge on tiles edge to eliminate bug of road suspension bridge from screenshot - and for this I could not use them in full height of cable-stayed bridge. Then I could place layers used to complete pillars in wrong sequence.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: vilvoh on April 07, 2009, 11:48:52 AM
Yes, I was refering to the bridges. More concretly to one of the suspension bridges. See the image.
(http://www.postimage.org/aV1kw1KJ.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1kw1KJ)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on April 07, 2009, 12:04:19 PM
Based on wikipedia and structurae.de this type of suspension bridge is called only suspension bridge but the second suspension bridge (between called bridge and the first version of covered bridge) is called cable-stayed bridge.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: vilvoh on April 07, 2009, 12:07:32 PM
Anyway, I really like it. Are the sources available at graphics.simutrans.com?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on April 07, 2009, 12:33:57 PM
Yes, source png files of most my deeds are available on graphics.simutrans.com - but some may be without menu icon (because I prepared it separated onto own picture). So you would need to use GIMP or something like it and prepare menu icon.

Search in users' galleries. I have been registered there under same username like here. So it could be easy. There are three subgalleries (albums) - Tratě (Tracks), Tunely (Tunnels) and Mosty (Bridges).

Pictures have description in two languages - my native (Czech, for people who don't understand English) and English. So you could find it easily.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Krisztian on August 29, 2009, 03:52:32 PM
I beg your pardon for this: the second one? The second bridge? But which second bridge? Do you think the second version of covered bridge or do you think suspension bridge? (it is the second one too - counted from the second version of covered bridge). I could do suspension bridge also for roads (but at first I have to find their width) and then this road suspension bridge
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/asv62/Simutrans/simscr51800x600.png)
would not be in need. Carriage construction of that bridge on end tiles is very imperfect.

But I see I have to improve pillars of suspension bridge to all of them be brown. I am sorry for this bug. I think I know where is origin of this bug.

I had to place pillar of suspension bridge on tiles edge to eliminate bug of road suspension bridge from screenshot - and for this I could not use them in full height of cable-stayed bridge. Then I could place layers used to complete pillars in wrong sequence.
available pak files?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on August 29, 2009, 10:59:16 PM
don't have an exact link, but check out http://japanese.simutrans.com/ - there's a link on that page to go to English index. They have some really nifty stuff there :) (thus the link - because there's more than that that's cool)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on January 18, 2010, 02:45:47 PM
Few days ago I started development of new model of my tracks - now looking more real. Attached picture belongs to track for speed 280 km/h but that model will be used (with recolouring) also on other tracks. Only one thing here will be missing: real curves - diagonal parts will be used also on curves (as it is in pak128.britain). I am sorry for it but for the first time (because I would like to prepare curves but I don't know how long time it will take) it is needed.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: gauthier on January 18, 2010, 06:59:00 PM
current 280 km/h track is already very nice, you should add this track to the pak with a new speed. A 350 km/h track for example.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on January 19, 2010, 06:07:00 PM
Of course, that is possible - I agree that track for speed 280km/h is one of the best ones. But why track for speed 350 km/h?

Electrification for speed 400 km/h is object what needs replacement very urgently - because crossings were made wrong.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: gauthier on January 19, 2010, 06:10:13 PM
... you made a track not a electrification here write ?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on January 19, 2010, 10:27:24 PM
Only one electrification I made is very nonperfect upper electrification for speed 160 km/h (you can download it via http://ota.webz.cz/?p=depozit&d=way.train.object (http://ota.webz.cz/?p=depozit&d=way.train.object) by clicking on the first or the third Stáhnout; the first archive contents all basic track objects I made; the third archive contents only set for speed 160 km/h).

And by the way, above called track is still in development.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Junna on January 25, 2010, 04:35:33 PM
The tracks are very nice, but I don't like the crossings. Why are they made in the vein of the original pak128 tracks, which has those terribly confusing crossing points, why not make it like those tracks in pak.britain, in other words straight diagonal crossing pieces rather than the total shift in direction? It looks much better that way, and the trains in practice move in a way closer to it as well.

If not included in default, could there at least be an alternative version with such crossing?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on January 25, 2010, 08:23:30 PM
Please note that the original reply has been split and locked. Let's not do it that way again, please. :)
Title: Re: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Junna on February 20, 2010, 01:53:11 AM
Junna, Isaac: Excuse me please my misdemeanor.

Junna: Would you explain me how would you like to cross tracks without one-level crossings in situations when you cannot build bridge or tunnel with slopes? And by the way, railways of pak128.britain contain crossings too - but curves are replaced by straight lines. So I don't understand your I don't like the crossings. I think you wanted to write I don't like curves.

Yes, the reason I said crossings is because those kinds of bends only appear when on single-tile curves, and those only appear on crossings since I never use sharp bends otherwise, but yes, that is what I meant. Did you get angry because you misinterpreted my post as criticising your art as such or something?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on February 20, 2010, 02:29:01 AM
Whoops. This topic got locked, and the split topic was unlocked. So I split the reply and moved it over here. :)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on February 20, 2010, 07:37:29 AM
Did you get angry because you misinterpreted my post? May it be.

Curves looks good until train goes over them. But then it is very strange. I know it - if it is what you think.

I will not make curved tiles because it will be very difficult within this new graphic - for the first time. But I don't say I will not make it for ever after. May it be I could make also version with curved tiles - but I am not sure.
Title: Any high speed railway tunnel?
Post by: spm on June 09, 2010, 09:25:06 AM
Any high speed (Over 350km/h) tunnel? Thanks...
Title: Re: Any high speed railway tunnel?
Post by: gauthier on June 09, 2010, 10:43:07 AM
not for pak128 sorry :/
Title: Re: Any high speed railway tunnel?
Post by: vilvoh on June 09, 2010, 12:45:29 PM
Is there such a fast train in pak128 for that tunnel?
Title: Re: Any high speed railway tunnel?
Post by: Zeno on June 09, 2010, 01:15:09 PM
Yep, Raven's "Thunder" (400) and "Spike" (370) trains are faster than 350 km/h
Title: Re: Any high speed railway tunnel?
Post by: gauthier on June 09, 2010, 06:44:42 PM
the 400 km/h train is the rvg_tigress.
Title: Re: Any high speed railway tunnel?
Post by: spm on June 10, 2010, 07:09:53 AM
thx all reply.........still waiting.........
i forget backup before using new computer.......
i have 380km/h tunnel in my old computer



i got it form google!
450km/h and 200km/h!!!!!!!!
Just share for all:
http://minami-fukuoka.simutrans.net/english/addon128/double-track_tunnel.html

mod note: please do not double-post (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=4530.0). Edit your last comment instead.
~vilvoh

Title: Re: Any high speed railway tunnel?
Post by: Václav on June 10, 2010, 12:42:11 PM
But they don't fit on currently available tracks - mostly tunnel for speed 450 km/h. So I cannot do anything else than ask paintmasters for making new tunnels for railways.

Currently available tunnel is for speed 280 km/h - but it does not fit on track for that speed - and also its style is not quite good for that speed. It should be for speed 110 km/h - and for higher speeds are needed new other ones.

In my (very imperfect) add-on has each track own tunnel. May be this is useless statement but I don't know about better one. I have plan to remake all parts of that add-on but no time and (what is more important) ideas.
Title: Re: Any high speed railway tunnel?
Post by: nitromefan on June 29, 2010, 11:41:04 PM
Well i think it was a dumb idea for trains higher than 280Km/h to be put into the main pak 128 set when there is no tunnels for them. In the main set they should have bridges tunnels for all vehicles in the set of trains and trucks. So could they be added to the 128 set so other people can access them without going through all the addons
Title: Re: Any high speed railway tunnel?
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on June 30, 2010, 01:39:56 AM
I don't think we need to call anything a "dumb" idea.

We're all volunteers here, I'd like to remind you.

If you're impatient, you may certainly paint yourself a tunnel with a higher speed.
Title: Re: Any high speed railway tunnel?
Post by: nitromefan on June 30, 2010, 04:04:17 AM
Well sorry about the language but it just doesn't make sense that there is faster trains than tunnels. They should be built up like once there is a tunnel that can take the speed of some trains then add them in then.

Title: Re: Any high speed railway tunnel?
Post by: Guillaume on June 30, 2010, 07:57:48 AM
There's a tunnel in pak128 for 400 km/h... Just search a little in the other websites.
Title: Re: Any high speed railway tunnel?
Post by: vilvoh on June 30, 2010, 08:18:15 AM
Well sorry about the language but it just doesn't make sense that there is faster trains than tunnels.

Well, if we want to be sensible and a little bit realistic, trains don't travel at top speed through tunnels, even if they are high speed trains like shinkasen, TGV, AVE, ICE, etc... as you must take into account the friction air-train-tunnel, the train looses some traction and therefore speed.
Title: Re: Any high speed railway tunnel?
Post by: nitromefan on June 30, 2010, 08:59:44 AM
There's a tunnel in pak128 for 400 km/h... Just search a little in the other websites.
 

I know that but i was trying to say that it should be put like that so its more convenient for other people.

I have a 450Km/h tunnel in my set. I got it from a Canadian addons site
Title: Re: Any high speed railway tunnel?
Post by: mobo on June 30, 2010, 09:20:01 AM
Besides realism and convenience there's also the gameplay issue. Maybe the pak set maintainer wants you to think of alternatives before you build a tunnel. Maybe it's part of the challenge, since the tremendous amount of money a tunnel costs isn't that hard to earn in simutrans, and the time it takes to build a tunnel also isn't implemented in simutrans.
Title: Re: Any high speed railway tunnel?
Post by: Václav on June 30, 2010, 09:55:54 AM
I got it from a Canadian addons site
I would be glad for link to that site.
Title: Re: Any high speed railway tunnel?
Post by: uktrain on July 29, 2010, 02:50:22 AM
Or you can dispatch it form pak.Britian-->350km/h
Title: Re: Any high speed railway tunnel?
Post by: Max Cheng on September 09, 2010, 01:36:10 PM
There is a Japanese pak set of "double-track" tunnel with 450km/h of maximum speed. I use it a lot in my save.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on July 02, 2011, 12:42:01 PM
More than one year passed and I returned to work on new tracks for pak128 (may it be that it will be used only in pak128.CS). Currently you can test this prototype of track for speed 280 km/h (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1316.0;attach=15719).

Curves are not used - but there are used eight new tiles - as they are on this linked picture from the left side:
(http://www.simutrans-germany.com/wiki/wiki_img/source/strecken_2.png)

... but I have not experience with these tiles yet.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: daffi on August 09, 2011, 08:21:41 AM
Nice works guys  :o :o
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on August 10, 2011, 03:58:07 PM
If you think my last work, prototype of track for speed 280 km/h, than you have a bit strange scale of beautifulness - because it is a really awful work - and unfinished.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on August 17, 2011, 03:36:04 PM
I began creation of new tracks - at first I prepared one for speed 280 km/h - but it is not finished - because it needs better shading of bed; I think that next would be track for speed 400 km/h - without classical sleepers. Other tracks should have shorter sleepers (current size was chosen for test).
I don't know what software do you use, but I am ready to share my work with you - to shift work on those tracks ahead.

I have a different speed plan:
60 - 80 - 120 - 160 - 240 - 320 - 400 km/h

Tracks are basically ready for (almost) all these speeds (and they are for a long time)

I got somewhat stuck with bridges and tunnels.

A good idea, if you feel like sharing the work, is to keep the track (ballast+sleepers+track) the same for a given speed and as similar as possible to the others.
e.g. mine are:
60 KM/H: sand ballast (with spots of grass), wooden sleepers, tracks with joints
80 KM/H: sand ballast, wooden sleepers, seamless tracks
120 KM/H: crushed rock ballast (brownish), wooden sleepers, seamless tracks
160 KM/H: crushed rock ballast (brownish), concrete sleepers, seamless tracks
240 KM/H: gravel ballast, concrete sleepers, seamless tracks
320 KM/H: gravel ballast, concrete sleepers, seamless tracks, all tile covered with gravel
400 KM/H: gravel ballast, concrete sleepers, seamless steel tracks (greyish), all tile covered with gravel

Details could still change, but the main goal is an overall consistency.

Timeline will be trickier:

60 KM/H
first tracks ever laid (1850+)
a general purpose track at first, which will remain goods only and be eventually retired circa 1950

80 KM/H
available from 1875
a general purpose track at first, will become goods only and be eventually retired circa 1975-2000

120 KM/H
available from 1900
a high speed track at first, will be less important in later eras and become goods only from 1975-2000

160 KM/H
available from 1925
a high speed track at first, will become general purpose track
it's also the most suitable tracks for stations, so it will probably have a version with the tile fully covered in crushed rock for rail yards

240 KM/H
available from 1950
highspeed mostly-passenger tracks

320 KM/H
available from 1975
highspeed passenger-only tracks
might be retired after 400 km/h tracks are introduced

400 KM/H
available from 2000
highspeed passenger-only tracks

As the eras change (25 years periods), tracks will change their scope. Sume will survive, other retired.
All infrastructure (bridges+elevated and tunnels) need to change according to the "look&feel" of the tracks in that era.

60 KM/H
wooden trestle bridge
no tunnel

80 KM/H
iron trestle bridge
tunnel portan hewn in rocks

120 KM/H
brick or rock arch viaduct 1900-1950
truss bridge 1950+
brick tunnel portal 1900-1950
concrete tunnel portal 1950+

160 KM/H
large (maybe even 1 tile large) brick arch viaduct 1925-1950
large concrete arch viaduct 1950+
(both also elevated)
wider brick tunnel portal 1925-1950
wider concrete tunnel portal 1950+

240 KM/H
pillars supported modern concrete viaduct 1950+
(also elevated)
wider concrete tunnel portal (roughly a circle) 1950+

320 KM/H
modern viaduct (also elevated)
"motorway-like" tunnel portal
(all 1 tile wide)

400 KM/H
modern viaduct (also elevated)
"motorway-like" tunnel portal
(all 1 tile wide)

I use GIMP for all my graphics, I can import multilayer XCFs and PNGs.
I use a standard set of textures, ESPECIALLY FOR BRICKWORK
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on August 18, 2011, 12:12:47 AM
Fabio, since those tracks have been finished for such a long time, perhaps you should do a partial release, of the tracks and some of the finished tunnels/bridges. The old bridges can work as placeholders in the meantime. This would make sure it doesn't slip out of memory of others, who in turn would perhaps do the same work again.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on August 18, 2011, 05:40:00 AM
I have a different speed plan:
60 - 80 - 120 - 160 - 240 - 320 - 400 km/h
May it be - I began preparing my tracks in accordance with original set.

Quote
A good idea, if you feel like sharing the work, is to keep the track (ballast+sleepers+track) the same for a given speed and as similar as possible to the others.
It would be good if you would download prototype (link is few posts above) of my track, see it and say if it is usable by yourself.

Quote
60 KM/H
first tracks ever laid (1850+)
a general purpose track at first, which will remain goods only and be eventually retired circa 1950

80 KM/H
available from 1875
a general purpose track at first, will become goods only and be eventually retired circa 1975-2000
It is not good if in menu are too many tracks ... but still somewhere are tracks built only for speed about 80 km/h

Quote
120 KM/H
available from 1900
a high speed track at first, will be less important in later eras and become goods only from 1975-2000

160 KM/H
available from 1925
It seems too high to me for this age - I would like to suggesting shifting of these two tracks by one age (those 25 years).
Only few trains could go by this speed - but technically they went only about 120 and 130 km/h.

Quote
240 KM/H
available from 1950
I am sorry for a little amount of being upset and eagerness for knowledge - but could you tell me which trains could go this speed? If I know well, the first trains that could go this speed appeared at least ten (or more) years later

Quote
320 KM/H
available from 1975
highspeed passenger-only tracks
might be retired after 400 km/h tracks are introduced

Quote
400 KM/H
available from 2000
highspeed passenger-only tracks
What train can go this speed? (I know that in game there are few trains but ...)

Quote
As the eras change (25 years periods), tracks will change their scope. Sume will survive, other retired.
Yes, it is very good idea - to let tracks change as time goes. But most important it is with tunnels.

Quote
I use GIMP for all my graphics, I can import multilayer XCFs and PNGs.
Yes. Thanks. It means I can export my track per parts - for easier improves.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on August 18, 2011, 07:15:12 AM
Fabio, since those tracks have been finished for such a long time, perhaps you should do a partial release, of the tracks and some of the finished tunnels/bridges. The old bridges can work as placeholders in the meantime. This would make sure it doesn't slip out of memory of others, who in turn would perhaps do the same work again.
This is very sensible. Perhaps I'm too ambitious and I want to release all the time a full set. I will see when I can access the sources (they are on a different PC) and release a test pak.

It is not good if in menu are too many tracks ... but still somewhere are tracks built only for speed about 80 km/h
This is well take care of:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/250tlj8.png) (http://i54.tinypic.com/250tlj8.png)
There won't be more than 4 tracks (+bridge +tunnel +elevated) available at any given year. Pretty much as it happens with roads.

It seems too high to me for this age - I would like to suggesting shifting of these two tracks by one age (those 25 years).
...
Only few trains could go by this speed - but technically they went only about 120 and 130 km/h.
...
I am sorry for a little amount of being upset and eagerness for knowledge - but could you tell me which trains could go this speed? If I know well, the first trains that could go this speed appeared at least ten (or more) years later
...
What train can go this speed? (I know that in game there are few trains but ...)
Tracks are supposed to have a ceiling speed: if just a train can go this speed between the start of the era and the beginning of the next one, the tracks should be available for the era.
Of course these tracks will be cutting edge technology for the time, but it allows to design a network which can be fully exploited for the present era and for the next one (up to 25+25=50 years, a reasonable lifespan for a railways infrastructure) without being upgraded.
Also in Real Life tracks are often designed for a higher speed than what the rolling stock presently allows to.
Moreover, the 400 kph tracks will e.g. allow for trains for such speeds as 360 kph etc... which couldn't exploit their max speed on "slower" 320 kph tracks.

This is the number of trains for each given speed in any given era:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/zmlcth.png) (http://i51.tinypic.com/zmlcth.png)
Note 1: 1925 means 1925-1949, 1950 means 1950-1974 and so on
Note 2: the numbers are rather old, from the old closed source pak128. Since many vehicles have been dropped since and other have been added, figures could eventually change, but this table gives the idea of the general trend.

Yes, it is very good idea - to let tracks change as time goes. But most important it is with tunnels.
Tracks will change purpose but preferably not the look.
Some bridges and tunnels will greatly change their appearance in time.
Both design and materials will change:
1850-1950: brick, stone, wooden and iron trestles
1950-2050: pre-stressed concrete, few steel truss

It would be good if you would download prototype (link is few posts above) of my track, see it and say if it is usable by yourself.
...
Yes. Thanks. It means I can export my track per parts - for easier improves.
By the way, which programs do you use?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on August 18, 2011, 09:52:31 AM
Corel Draw 9. May it be that it is not perfect tool for painting of such graphics - but I am getting to be better. It can be seen on some addons I made. And finishing works are in GIMP (but I am not good in using of it).
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on August 18, 2011, 04:47:40 PM
Very well thought of timeline and speed combination Fabio. Certainly a great improvement to the present state in the pak.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on August 19, 2011, 07:36:47 PM
I decided to publish sources for prototype of new track for speed 280 km/h.
There are used few new parts.

There are few night-lighting pixels - and I am sorry for them.

I hope that I will publish new version of graphics soon - and it would be in GIMP XCF file - and also as PNGs - in accordance what I wrote in one of previous posts.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on August 28, 2011, 04:01:21 PM
It the Tracks replacement project for pak128
beginning or planning time?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: PkK on August 29, 2011, 10:26:17 AM
400 KM/H: gravel ballast, concrete sleepers, seamless steel tracks (greyish), all tile covered with gravel

I would recommend to use a "Feste Fahrbahn" (don't know the Englisch term) in staed of gravel ballast here. "Feste Fahrbahn" i sused on many high-speed lines these days. Even the French that went with gravel ballast for a long time are now using it for some of their new high-speed lines (and other countried, like Germany have been using it for some time). A typical picture can be found here:

http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Feste_Fahrbahn_FFB%C3%B6gl.jpg&filetimestamp=20050917170741

Philipp



320 KM/H
modern viaduct (also elevated)
"motorway-like" tunnel portal
(all 1 tile wide)

400 KM/H
modern viaduct (also elevated)
"motorway-like" tunnel portal
(all 1 tile wide)

At such speeds, simple tunnel portals won't do (for single-track tunnels, which have a lower diameter than the double-track ones). You'll get a tunnel boom, like when firing a firearm, so the tunnel portal needs the equivalent of a suppressor.

This results in unusual-looking portals, like these:
http://www.eisenbahntunnel.at/bilder/tunnelportale/13002/wienerwald-west-2009-09-0835.jpg

Or, alternatively extra air outlets near the portal, like here:
http://www.tunnel-online.info/de/artikel/bildpopup_1097687.html?image=1
http://www.tunnel-online.info/de/artikel/bildpopup_1097687.html?image=3

Philipp




Mod note: please do not double-post (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=4529.0#post_item4e). Edit your last comment instead.
~Fabio


Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on August 29, 2011, 10:37:04 AM
I would recommend to use a "Feste Fahrbahn" (don't know the Englisch term) in staed of gravel ballast here. "Feste Fahrbahn" i sused on many high-speed lines these days. Even the French that went with gravel ballast for a long time are now using it for some of their new high-speed lines (and other countried, like Germany have been using it for some time). A typical picture can be found here:
http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Feste_Fahrbahn_FFB%C3%B6gl.jpg&filetimestamp=20050917170741

I'm not a specialist on the issue, but to me (and from the pic) it seems more like replacing the railroad ties (sleepers) instead of replacing the ballast itself. It looks like it's laid on gravel, anyway.
The idea is considered, thank you for suggesting.



At such speeds, simple tunnel portals won't do (for single-track tunnels, which have a lower diameter than the double-track ones). You'll get a tunnel boom, like when firing a firearm, so the tunnel portal needs the equivalent of a suppressor.

This results in unusual-looking portals, like these:
http://www.eisenbahntunnel.at/bilder/tunnelportale/13002/wienerwald-west-2009-09-0835.jpg

Or, alternatively extra air outlets near the portal, like here:
http://www.tunnel-online.info/de/artikel/bildpopup_1097687.html?image=1
http://www.tunnel-online.info/de/artikel/bildpopup_1097687.html?image=3

Very interesting, and also very new to me. I know that today many long base tunnels are bored with two tubes. Also, the air shift of two trains meeting in a double track tunnel at these speeds can be disastrous.
I'll try to see how can a longer portal and some air flow outlets can be added to a single tile :)
Again, thank you very much for the ideas.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on August 29, 2011, 12:57:56 PM
"Feste Fahrbahn" (don't know the Englisch term)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_tie#Ballastless_track (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_tie#Ballastless_track)

"Slab track" seems to be the term.

And @fabio - sounds like they consider it to be "ballastless" track, so the gravel is only used as a method of providing a roadbed, like gravel/stone under an automobile road. :shrug:

I learned some things this morning, though, so I'm happy either way. :D

Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: PkK on August 29, 2011, 02:13:03 PM
Very interesting, and also very new to me. I know that today many long base tunnels are bored with two tubes. Also, the air shift of two trains meeting in a double track tunnel at these speeds can be disastrous.
I'll try to see how can a longer portal and some air flow outlets can be added to a single tile :)
Again, thank you very much for the ideas.

The portal from the Wienerwald tunnel probably wouldn't be much longer than the current ones (everything except for the red part will be buried). Here's some more pictures from other angles:
http://www.mooser.net/ref_admin/Arge-Tunnel-Wienerwald.jpg
http://www.wienerzeitung.at/_em_daten/_cache/image/wzo/0xUmFuZG9tSVYwMTIzNDU2NzC9Ub7MvX5c8ol2kix+4swVFzwbO/s1GioJ5qyHwKL9V9a7UixabtFVWEOcNfs0QB7zwLeAlMk0NghIlMzsNMg=.jpg

Philipp
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on August 29, 2011, 04:00:10 PM
That tunnel is surely very interesting - but as I wrote somewhere else (ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT - about else shapes of tunnel), it is shape of tunnel for new ages. And its using in age in accordance with plan as is described above would be very strange. Ages before year 1990 need else shapes. And I don't think that it is so difficult to prepare more tunnels for one track - in comparison with preparing of tracks, themselves.
Title: Straight track intersections instead of curves
Post by: missingpiece on January 16, 2012, 05:12:52 PM
Hello dear team !

Are you aware of an add-on or other type of modification which renders intersecting train tracks with straights instead of curves. With all due respect for the smart track re-forming that is happening, I just prefer to see straight tracks as in pak64. Particularly in situations like these....

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7169/6708946197_c9842287c8_d.jpg)
Title: Re: Straight track intersections instead of curves
Post by: Fabio on January 16, 2012, 05:17:48 PM
New tracks are being painted. Those won't have curved sections at all...
Title: Re: Straight track intersections instead of curves
Post by: missingpiece on January 16, 2012, 06:38:17 PM
Oh.....?! Wow !  ;D That's awesome. Please excuse me posting about it. I searched this forum but didn't find any reference to that work going on.

Hmm,...could you point me to the work-in-progress ? I can perhaps try myself on one or the other tile myself ? Trying to follow the tutorials I've read....
Title: RAILTRACKS REPLACEMENT: WORKS RESUMED
Post by: Fabio on January 17, 2012, 09:54:07 AM
I had finally managed to resume the work on tracks replacement for a few weeks till now.

As usual, I revised a bit my plan, mostly adding more tracks.  From 1940 on there will be 6 tracks (5 from 1930) with bridges, tunnel and elevated (for the upper levels) available all the time, with a progressive speed increase.

Basically, they are divided into 5 categories:


1) Slow freight: 60-80 km/h

2) Local service / fast freight: 100-120 km/h


3) Regular lines: 140-180 km/h


4) Express lines: 200-240 km/h


5) High Speed lines: 280-400 km/h

Here some tables.


Timeline:

TIME
185018601870188018901900191019201930194019501960197019801990200020102020203020402050
60
606060606060606060606060
80
8080808080808080808080
80
80808080808080808080
100
100100100100100100100100100100100
120
120120120120120120120120
140
140140140140140140140
160
160160160160160160160
180
180180180180180180
200
200200200200200200
240
240240240240240240
280
280280280280
320
320320320320320320320320
400
400400400400400
n. tracks available
111223445666666666666








Costs:



*
SPEED
WEIGHT
INTRO
RETIRE
COST
MAINT.
BRIDGE COST
BRIDGE MAINT.
ELEVATED COST
ELEVATED MAINT.
TUNNEL COST
TUNNEL MAINT.
1
60
120
1810
1960
30,00
0,75
440,00
11,00
0,00
0,00
0,00
0,00
2
80
240
1950
2989
40,00
1,00
450,00
11,00
0,00
0,00
850,00
13,00
3
80
180
1840
1940
120,00
2,70
550,00
13,00
0,00
0,00
950,00
15,00
4
100
180
1870
1970
150,00
3,40
590,00
13,00
0,00
0,00
990,00
15,00
5
120
180
1980
2989
180,00
4,10
630,00
14,00
0,00
0,00
1000,00
16,00
6
140
120
1910
1970
280,00
5,60
750,00
16,00
750,00
16,00
1200,00
18,00
7
160
120
1930
1990
320,00
6,40
800,00
16,00
800,00
16,00
1200,00
18,00
8
180
120
2000
2989
360,00
7,20
850,00
17,00
850,00
17,00
1300,00
19,00
9
200
100
1940
1990
500,00
8,80
1000,00
19,00
1000,00
19,00
1400,00
21,00
10
240
100
2000
2989
600,00
11,00
1200,00
21,00
1200,00
21,00
1600,00
23,00
11
280
100
1970
2000
840,00
15,00
1500,00
25,00
1500,00
25,00
1900,00
27,00
12
320
100
1980
2989
960,00
17,00
1600,00
27,00
1600,00
27,00
2000,00
29,00
13
400
80
2010
2989
1200,00
21,00
1900,00
31,00
1900,00
31,00
2300,00
33,00


Estimated work statistics:
TRACKBRIDGEELEVATEDTUNNELTOTAL
60
70%5%38%
80
70%5%5%27%
80
70%5%5%27%
100
90%80%5%58%
120
90%80%5%58%
140
90%60%40%70%65%
160
90%40%40%40%53%
180
90%5%5%5%26%
200
90%5%5%70%43%
240
90%5%5%30%33%
280
90%90%90%90%90%
320
90%90%90%80%88%
400
70%90%90%70%80%
TOTAL
84%43%46%40%53%



Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: missingpiece on January 17, 2012, 12:36:26 PM
Oh, gosh... that's a plan alright !  :o It is still a hobby for you, is it ?  :P

Hm, with regards to graphical work, I would not dare approach anything else than regular tracks on flat ground. Seeing their WIP percentage being rather high, I do not guess my noob assistance would be of any good to you, or would it ?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Zeno on January 17, 2012, 01:35:30 PM
Oh my..! Those are great news! :)
Our rail system's been begging for a renewal for ages...
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: ӔO on January 17, 2012, 03:21:52 PM
I think it would be better to change
400km/h to 480km/h
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on January 17, 2012, 03:36:56 PM
Is there ANY commercial service on conventional rail (no maglevs) going that fast?

Besides, there are no trains of that speed in pak128 (not yet at least). Seeing tracks with a max speed of 480 km/h wuld just mislead them.

If trains faster than 400 km/h are going to be painted anytime, we will either update the value, either add a new track type.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Zeno on January 17, 2012, 03:43:49 PM
AFAIK the highest commercial train in europe were the spanish Siemens Velaro trains, which were certified for running at 350 km/h. I think the newest french TGV (AGV) was certified 360 km/h, but not sure. I know that the chinese hst were really fast, but I can't say how much is "fast". Definetly, I'd say 400km/h is a good limit, unless we find a good reason to use a higher value.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: ӔO on January 17, 2012, 04:01:18 PM
Well, they do last until 2989 and there are already speed record runs that go over 480km/h, so I don't think it would be entirely out of the realm of possibility to see a conventional train in service at 400km/h+ somewhere down the line. I'd guess 2050?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on January 17, 2012, 04:11:43 PM
You paint the train, I'll paint the track ;)

Deal?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: ӔO on January 17, 2012, 04:23:30 PM
sounds like a good deal :)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on January 17, 2012, 06:53:45 PM
AFAIK the highest commercial train in europe were the spanish Siemens Velaro trains, which were certified for running at 350 km/h. I think the newest french TGV (AGV) was certified 360 km/h, but not sure. I know that the chinese hst were really fast, but I can't say how much is "fast". Definetly, I'd say 400km/h is a good limit, unless we find a good reason to use a higher value.
To feed discussions :
You're right about speed :
"In January 2008 a test conducted by Alstom resulted in the train running at the speed of 360.9 kilometers per hour."
Italian version is named NTV and will run 330km/h
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on January 17, 2012, 07:02:21 PM
fabio
 it´s possible to leave the track for 200 and 280 km/h in devlopent?
 And a track with 360 km/h be are missing.
 Thank you.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on January 19, 2012, 04:13:43 PM
Here I come with some updates.


Tunnels for tracks 80-240 are almost ready!!! (as the tracks themselves)


(http://i41.tinypic.com/qqr94z.png) (http://i41.tinypic.com/qqr94z.png)

Another screenshot:

(http://i40.tinypic.com/2n0kfgn.png) (http://i40.tinypic.com/2n0kfgn.png)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on January 19, 2012, 05:44:55 PM
Ummm... sorry to be the bad guy again, but I can't give up on quality.

The tunnels that have only shading and horizontal stripes are almost comic-like.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on January 19, 2012, 05:49:36 PM
I know, those will need a good concrete texture ;)

The biggest part was the layout, and since you didn't complain on the point, I assume it can go...

(high percentage means the hours of actual work, texturing is a rather fast operation...)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: missingpiece on January 19, 2012, 08:37:58 PM
Hej Fabio,

seeing your nice artistic work, I just read up on high-speed tracks. Cause I was wondering if 200km/h tracks would still have the gravel bed. Seems like they do, at least until 1980. I am referring to a wikipedia article in German (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schnellfahrstrecke#Technische_Anforderungen) where they state that from the 1990s on, high-speed tracks in Japan and Germany were built on a concrete bed; that has lower risk of flying stones and reduces maintenance cost as well.

Also I learnt that your tunnel entrances are excellently mapping to the physical requirements : they need to be wide for high speeds so that pressure changes when entering the tunnel are reduced as much as possible.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on January 19, 2012, 09:10:57 PM
Oh, layout is good :) Perhaps the brick and stone textures could be a bit smaller. Apart from that, there isn't much to add, perhaps the double-sided versions could also merge the paved top, but that's not important.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on January 20, 2012, 04:01:19 PM
Hi
layout and tracks are verygood.
Imho, I suggest to apply shadow on hole of tunnel like this :

(http://www.simutrans-france.fr.nf/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=fr:tunnel_shadow.png)

What about it ?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: missingpiece on January 21, 2012, 08:47:17 AM
With the sun standing South, the shadow could be even "bigger"; there would hardly be any rays touching the inner wall and actually, the track would largely be in the dark. At least in this perspective, which you posted, mEGa. Rotating by 90° clockwise, the shadow would be approximately like that. The sun is supposed to be 60° above the horizon, is it not ?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on January 21, 2012, 11:49:49 AM
??? It seems like if all use model of track for speed 280 km/h. May it be. No problem - but there is one thing that is needed to do too - replacement of electrifications. Without it it will not be complete.

And of course, I wish I would like to see more types (shapes) of tunnels - regardless of I know that there is limitation.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on January 25, 2012, 04:30:56 PM
Here's a complete new version of the tunnels above taking into consideration the feedback received:

(http://i39.tinypic.com/o9pog9.png) (http://i39.tinypic.com/o9pog9.png)

Thanks,

seeing your nice artistic work, I just read up on high-speed tracks. Cause I was wondering if 200km/h tracks would still have the gravel bed. Seems like they do, at least until 1980. I am referring to a wikipedia article in German (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schnellfahrstrecke#Technische_Anforderungen) where they state that from the 1990s on, high-speed tracks in Japan and Germany were built on a concrete bed; that has lower risk of flying stones and reduces maintenance cost as well.
200 km/h and 240 km/h are not to be considered High Speed tracks in this pakset. Railways are considered high speed if they allow peak speeds OVER 250 km/h (new laid tracks, 200 km/h for upgrading older lines).
The pakset will have 3 specific High Speed tracks, allowing respectively speeds of 280 km/h, 320 km/h and 400 kmh.
The first one will be pure conventional tracks (with ballast and sleepers), the second one will still have a gravel bed, but will use a sleeperless system ("half sleepers"), yet the fastest one will have tracks laid on a concrete platform.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on January 25, 2012, 07:51:43 PM
Apart from some slight dirt and grit, these are LOVELY. Okay, all caps, sorry, but... yes :D
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on January 26, 2012, 07:45:44 PM
Really good work ! I like especially "100km/h" tracks.
Just a "little little" suggestion :
Often in the entrance of rail tunnels there are cupboards of service. Perhaps, add one of them could get more realism ?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on January 27, 2012, 06:11:05 AM
"cupboards of service"
would you please explain this expression? i'm afraid, i don't understand it.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on January 27, 2012, 02:44:49 PM
"cupboards of service"
would you please explain this expression? i'm afraid, i don't understand it.
Oups, I wasn't sure about this translation... It's a human size box to manage electric or communication networks.

(http://storage.canalblog.com/19/40/348968/52916459_p.jpg)(http://i33.servimg.com/u/f33/14/33/09/16/fpf-av38.jpg)

But we can also have railmen's workshop who work on tracks, may be ?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Markohs on January 27, 2012, 03:34:04 PM
That's actually a great idea imo.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Zeno on January 27, 2012, 07:56:28 PM
Oh, those! It's funny how the "cupboards" word moved my mind to my kitchen! And I couldn't find any relation with simutrans! :P
Anyway, that's a fantastic idea mEGa. It may add realism as well as a bit of detail which will make the graphics more... uhm, dynamic, complete; and with rather a low effort.
You know, by adding a small detail you make things look much more interesting, not just a plain tunnel entrance. It's like a house with/without a mail box on the door 8)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on January 27, 2012, 09:47:03 PM
These kind of details added, and I'll try some, but my biggest concern is being repeated too many times: once it's great, twice is ok, but many of them in a small area could look too fake. I try to be more minimalist usually. But this one, I'll try it.

By the way, bridges for 140, 160 and 180 km/h are almost ready, I hope to be able to post a screenshot tomorrow. For 100 and 120 km/h I'm planning to use an edited version of current bridges for, respectively, 110 and 160 (both should be Raven's).
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Zeno on January 27, 2012, 09:56:37 PM
Good point, fabio. If the same detail was placed in all tunnels it would become repetitive. Maybe a small box can do the job for earlier tunnels, then bigger for most modern ones; also changing color and position (left/right) may help to variety. Maybe a sign can replace the box in certain tunnels, just to give extra joy for our eyes :)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on January 27, 2012, 10:39:51 PM
True. But OTOH one route is often made consistently of tunnels of same speed (and thus same look). I wish we could have a random factor so that there are several variants in the same object and the program chooses one during placement (and this could go for all player objects...)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Zeno on January 27, 2012, 10:53:43 PM
Why not leave the tunnels "as they are" without any more details and create a new set of signals called "signaling box"? Is it possible to create a signal that does nothing? If not, maybe a signal limiting speed to 1000kmh could do the job :)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on January 27, 2012, 11:19:26 PM
It is very possible and I was thinking pretty much of the same. Obviously they would cost 0 as they are just eye candy.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: missingpiece on January 28, 2012, 02:46:08 AM
But OTOH one route is often made consistently of tunnels of same speed (and thus same look).
Maybe put the box not into all rotations of a tunnel ?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: wlindley on January 28, 2012, 04:17:56 AM
Stations can have an even/odd alternation for platforms... the same logic could apply to ways and signals, perhaps?  It would be quite nice to have a "signal bridge" that spanned two tracks, either as a single center mast with beams out to left and right, or as masts outside the tracks to left and right with a beam above across... and signals on top.  Applied to tunnels, a twin-bore with two tunnel entrances could have only the "even" tiles with the signal-box "closet" (or "cupboard").  Just like stations.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on January 28, 2012, 08:35:31 AM
Bridges already can  (the "double portal"). It might be worth a try.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on January 28, 2012, 10:12:12 AM
New post:

As promised last night, a screenshot for 140, 160 and 180 km/h bridges:

(http://i41.tinypic.com/2l3j3m.png) (http://i41.tinypic.com/2l3j3m.png)
(click on image to zoom)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on January 28, 2012, 11:31:51 AM
You know, that's good enough for me, I'll leave criticism to MeGa :P

Hm, one nitpick - the fence (?) on 160 could be AA-ed, too...
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on January 28, 2012, 02:34:28 PM
Yes, me too. It's quite perfect !

Just to feed discussion about accessories : I also suggested  a little house of construction site for workers... An alternative to fight the repetitive aspect. IMHO, Missingpeace suggestion is an good idea; change accessories according to 4 views...
But I also know that it is rather impracticable and I aggree with the opinion of Fabio.
So one more time : brilliant work especialliy 140 km/h bridge... Better than my old mine.
I vote for it !
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on January 28, 2012, 03:12:15 PM
About accessories: I wonder if signals can have negative maintenance: building workers' huts could cost but would ease maintenance works so having negative maintenance...
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: wlindley on January 28, 2012, 07:35:02 PM
Negative maintenance sounds like a cheat... however this might work as option:
The difference in maintenance should be relatively small, but about enough that the increased cost would pay off in about five or ten years.  (Here, the 500 cost pays off in 500_cost/25_saved_maint/12_months = 8.33 years.)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on January 28, 2012, 07:46:28 PM
We could achieve the same result making a signal, or another object which costs 2500 and has maintainance of -25, if this is the math :)
This signals would be mostly eyecandy, and they would need a track laid in the first place, so there is few cheating involved: you spend money now to pay less maintainance from now on...
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on January 29, 2012, 02:05:16 AM
i like the fence at the brick viaduct in particular.

seems like the bridge builders influenced each other a lot and pushed quality further and further.

the new pak.britain bridges were unsurpassed before, but now, this puts the bar even higher.




those maintenance objects are perhaps better left only eye candy. else you will find it on every tile without a signal with most players. power-gamer attitude isn't something one easily gets rid of.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on January 29, 2012, 07:35:08 AM
Those bridges for speed 140, 160 and 180 km/h are surely good - but I think that bridges for higher speeds deserve to have different shaped pillars. It means that they at least will not be (simple) rectangles like on bridge for speed 180 km/h.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Arkadiusz on January 29, 2012, 08:18:58 AM
Will this also include a catenary replacement? For example, the sudden switch from standard to third rail and then back to other types of overhead catenary was always giving me an aesthetical headache in pak128.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on January 29, 2012, 10:35:05 AM
Arkadiusz, I created overhead catenary for speed 160 km/h some time ago. It is not perfect but if you would like to use it, you may find it here (http://ota.webz.cz/?p=depozit&d=way.train.object) - together with else objects I prepared. Those pages are written czech, so you can understand them a little - but simple click on text Stáhnout for downloading of those ones.

But else, on the other hand, you are right. Replacement of catenaries is needed - but you are not the first who is asking this. Missing overhead one for speed 160 km/h is one point - and not well done one for speed 400 km/h (where are some imperfections - like wrong poles in T-crossings) is other point.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on January 31, 2012, 02:50:09 PM
I'm having a go at elevated railroads (according to the plan).

Here the biggest problem is the placement of pillars, especially for structures less wide than a standard tile.
I want to avoid trains or trams underneath running into bridges, and the junction with straight segments needs to look decent in all possible combinations (I tried the same alignment of pak128.Britain, but it can give odd arches).

The following is just a concept, obviously it needs to be textured, aligned better, added details and so on...

(http://i41.tinypic.com/a4u2xv.png) (http://i41.tinypic.com/a4u2xv.png)

Alternating arches of different span is not so uncommon in RL, and here it respects tiles alignment.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: ӔO on January 31, 2012, 03:41:30 PM
IMO, you could just draw them over sized
normally, double track rail viaducts are joined together as with one large deck, so I don't think it would be too out of place if the elevated ways were a full tile wide.

I don't know how you are painting them, but have a look at 4-way arches. Even when cut at a diagonal, they look like a regular bridge. For even better looks, chop off the pillar from one side of the diagonals. It's all about what can be seen under orthogonal projection.

plus, they would match up better when road elevated is drawn on top.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on January 31, 2012, 03:57:45 PM
Thanks, AEO!

But, for the sake of consistency, also regular bridges for the same speeds should be 1 tile wide.

Probably this is the way to go, I'd like some more opinion, but if I enlarged to full tile width bridges and elevated for speeds from 140 km/h up things would be MUCH easier to paint.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on January 31, 2012, 07:28:22 PM
Hmmm. The idea with alternating arches is really nice, obviously you spent a lot of time planning...

I think the pillars are thick in the plane perpendicular to view, so their width can't be seen at all (just like side-on vehicles).
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on January 31, 2012, 07:56:15 PM
It is very promising, but I saw that element of perspective for diagonal pillar isn't right.
imho, this part should not be drawn.
See snapshot to understand my opinion.

Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on January 31, 2012, 09:02:36 PM
Well, those are supposed to be skewed arches, non orthogonal. making them orthogonal is indeed simpler, but it may look flatter. Tomorrow I'm trying a snapshot like that, it won't take long, quite the opposite. We'll see and judge.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Spike on January 31, 2012, 10:38:55 PM
Amazing work. I still have to find a way to efficiently create new "way" types for pak48.Excentrique. Great work to see here :)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128 - 140 km/h Elevated preview
Post by: Fabio on February 03, 2012, 12:51:34 PM
Thank you, Hajo!


Here's finally a preview of 140 km/h elevated:


(http://i41.tinypic.com/ax05yb.png) (http://i41.tinypic.com/ax05yb.png)


Pillars' thickness is shown here as it's not perpendicular to the face we see.
Showing the grid proves it:


(http://i40.tinypic.com/2wf75sp.png) (http://i40.tinypic.com/2wf75sp.png)


Details still need to be added.


The hardest thing to make was, as expected, pillars' position.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on February 03, 2012, 02:02:29 PM
Ha, I can see it now - the "wrong" thing with perpendicular arrangement is that without shadow, it looks weird. (Look at the small arches here, they display this problem.) That doesn't happen with this arrangement of pillars.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 03, 2012, 02:34:03 PM
The small arches-- wuould it be better for them to be "closed"?

They used to look awful, then I added a light shading on edges and now are more decent. And thankfully they are small!

For the moment, I'll keep this elevated like this (plus details!!!) unless better ideas come up.

I'm not keen to add shadows (especially after my request for 50% transparent color was denied), as they would be inconsistent with normal bridges, which on turn can't have them because they can be higher than one tile...

Well, time to move to the other elevated ;)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on February 03, 2012, 08:51:23 PM
Nice Fabio!
You make for simutrans a graet job.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on February 03, 2012, 10:31:25 PM
better close the small arches, they look a bit like gaps, or even glitches. They are also too small for the saving in material would justify the extre work producing them. (if the size is larger, as in the blue concept above, they make more sense.


If someone has difficulties to see the concept here, check with tracks below going in cardinal directions.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on February 04, 2012, 05:24:20 PM
Hi,
I tried to test a solution for the front arches. Indeed as we see in 1, tracks under do not pass.
I deleted background arches and in number 2 we see that tracks could  pass.
Finally, the pillars of arches seeming very large, I thought  inlaying an architectural effect in the middle as an hope (view number 3) ?
I also walled up the small interval between pillars, to see the potential result.

It is a just humble suggestion of my part, but I find these background shadowed pillars are strong.
(http://www.simutrans-france.fr.nf/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=fr:elevated_bridges_fabio_mod.png)

Your feedback ?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 04, 2012, 06:51:09 PM
I think you're right. Anyway back pillars must disappear, as they look ABOVE a train passing under them. Probably also the "thickness" must go, as it has no sense without the back pillars.
The way to go is larger pillars with some architechtonical element. I'm presently testing it likewise.
Thank for the suggestion.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on February 04, 2012, 08:40:23 PM
hm, now without it, having seen the version with back pillars, it looks quite wrong. But there's nothing you can do about it if it appears in front of trains. (can't it put to back image)

In the screenshot mEGa posted, the passage is only a little bit too narrow.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on February 05, 2012, 12:05:45 PM
Filling the small arches makes the walls rather bland. What was the additional effect? I can see only a dark spot... First I could think of was a gothic-like extension of pillar, but that is nonsense :P
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 05, 2012, 04:35:35 PM
Tomorrow hopefully a new proposal ;)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on February 05, 2012, 05:22:39 PM
Filling the small arches makes the walls rather bland. What was the additional effect? I can see only a dark spot... First I could think of was a gothic-like extension of pillar, but that is nonsense :P

dark spot : it was just one mark to  represent place where put a architectural effect;  may be a relief additional arch or another detail like that :
http://www.communes.com/images/orig/franche-comte/jura/morez_39400/Morez_29549_Bas-de-Morez-le-viaduc-Morez-St-Claude.jpg (http://www.communes.com/images/orig/franche-comte/jura/morez_39400/Morez_29549_Bas-de-Morez-le-viaduc-Morez-St-Claude.jpg)


 
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on February 05, 2012, 05:39:45 PM
So, it was just a mark, not a finished thing :) Understood...
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 06, 2012, 02:22:54 PM
Here a preview of what it could look like...
Many details still to be added.

(http://i43.tinypic.com/8x7n1l.png) (http://i43.tinypic.com/8x7n1l.png)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Zeno on February 06, 2012, 02:32:20 PM
I think those modified pillars look good enough now :)
The rails (only the rails), though, look like if they had an offset (displaced towards... northwest? elevated?). Maybe it's an optic effect, or maybe it's my brain missing to build it up!?!

Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 06, 2012, 02:42:46 PM
Thank you!


Tracks: it's just an optical effect, tracks (and ballast base) are exactly the same as they are now.


Maybe the effect is also due to the fact that I added 2 px at northwest, to make the bridge look less "narrow" on diagonals.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Zeno on February 06, 2012, 02:49:38 PM
Tracks: it's just an optical effect, tracks (and ballast base) are exactly the same as they are now.
Thanks for not putting the blame on my brain! :P
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on February 06, 2012, 03:08:53 PM
I think it's the ballast, it looks almost as thick as the bridge at top of the arch... I guess it would be too much work.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 06, 2012, 03:33:50 PM
It'll look better with the fence... Next screenshot when it's added.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on February 06, 2012, 05:42:12 PM
the optical illusion comes most likely from the bright line on either side of the viaduct. It looks like a raised parapet, you can see this a the SW end. Fences or a real parapet will certainly fix this illusion.

There certainly is no way to add the backward pilars without having them pop out before trains? I don't understand back images well enough. It would be sad. as that's i think was exactly what made the viaducts in pak-britain look strange to me on diagonals.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 06, 2012, 06:10:45 PM
Ok, this should pretty much be the final version:


(http://i42.tinypic.com/6p3fxs.png) (http://i42.tinypic.com/6p3fxs.png)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on February 06, 2012, 06:20:37 PM
beautiful structure at the arches
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on February 06, 2012, 06:36:09 PM
ÖMG. How do I say that this is great in yet another way?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on February 06, 2012, 07:34:55 PM
Just one feedback :
beautiful work ! I haven't any thing to notice. Great.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 08, 2012, 11:09:27 AM
Thank you all for the feedback!!!  ;)

And now...

160 km/h elevated:

(http://i40.tinypic.com/103yi4z.png) (http://i40.tinypic.com/103yi4z.png)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mip on February 08, 2012, 11:26:30 AM
This is amazing work. I remember how it was to draw a single bridge and can only image how much work time you spend for such a set.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 08, 2012, 05:09:56 PM
...and 180 km/h

(http://i44.tinypic.com/213nbso.png) (http://i44.tinypic.com/213nbso.png)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: agamemnus on February 08, 2012, 11:10:19 PM
Very impressive work...

I liked the curved triangle bridge facade more than the straight triangles.... maybe the straight triangles could be made slightly smaller.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on February 09, 2012, 07:44:27 AM
Nothing to say about it except that it is very nice. I look forward to being able to try it.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on February 09, 2012, 03:15:40 PM
Fabio, it is surely good that you learnt from roads replacement project - and you are preparing rail elevated ways of such construction that it allows building in parallel direction below it.

And of course, I don't think that it is needed to have elevated rail ways for all speeds (meanwhile tunnels for all speeds are greeted much). So, for high speeds some special (futuristic and high modern) constructions of bridges may be used.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 09, 2012, 05:36:57 PM
*NEW* bridge for 200 km/h (1940-1999)

EDIT: Image somehow deleted on hosting site... anyway this bridge will look _quite_ different...



...and slightly updated bridges for 140-180 km/h

(http://i42.tinypic.com/14e4eqc.png) (http://i42.tinypic.com/14e4eqc.png)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/wi2814.png) (http://i39.tinypic.com/wi2814.png)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on February 09, 2012, 07:31:49 PM
Cool Fabio your new bridge a very nice.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Isaac_Clarke on February 09, 2012, 07:41:18 PM
Impressive these bridges! I look forward for the release :)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on February 09, 2012, 08:50:41 PM
The 200 kph variant looks fragile ;) But I guess it's hard to come up with other variants...

BTW, I just realized all of the bridges are a deck supported by arches from below. Are you planning to have some other types (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Bridge_footer) (particularly truss and beam ones)? It's not a requirement at all, but at the same time it seems that there will be little variety now...
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 09, 2012, 09:43:09 PM
Well, there are still many to do ;)
Trusses don't look good on elevated, so I reserve them to 100 and 120 km/h (probably reusing existing ones). 60 and 80 km/h will be trestle or beam (still without elevated).
High speed (280+ km/h) will be box girder bridges, pretty much like motorways ones (and I plan to adapt to a certain extent existing motorway bridges). These will look good as elevated, too.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on February 09, 2012, 09:56:49 PM
Ah. Right... this is not everything :)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 13, 2012, 05:03:12 PM
A new screenshot:

(http://i43.tinypic.com/25qf5tu.png) (http://i43.tinypic.com/25qf5tu.png)

This is a preview of 400 km/h bridge and elevated.

You can see as well the ballast replaced with a concrete railbed as suggested above.

EDIT: As you can see the electrification poles look awful.
I have two options:
1) lower the safety wall
2) plan newer (and future) electrification (for this speed as well as for other) to have poles on the far side of the tracks.
Your thoughts?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on February 13, 2012, 05:29:55 PM
I saw that distance between ground and elevated way is very short. It' s look fine and realistic. But what did you planned when another ways pass below ? Another version of  this sea bridge ?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 13, 2012, 05:42:37 PM
It's an optical effect due to the fact that the pillar is rather centered:

(http://i39.tinypic.com/dr9uuq.png) (http://i39.tinypic.com/dr9uuq.png)

Ok, probably it's still some 4 px too low, but the clearance is not that bad after all.

And what do you think about the electrification poles?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Lmallet on February 13, 2012, 05:46:50 PM
This is a preview of 400 km/h bridge and elevated.

You can see as well the ballast replaced with a concrete railbed as suggested above.

EDIT: As you can see the electrification poles look awful.
I have two options:
1) lower the safety wall
2) plan newer (and future) electrification (for this speed as well as for other) to have poles on the far side of the tracks.
Your thoughts?

I take it stations will have to be redrawn as well?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on February 13, 2012, 05:59:24 PM
Electrification poles, themselves, look good - but more important will be all crossings. There position of electrification poles will be more important - because in previous (currently default) version they are not well positioned. But I can only think if it is caused by wrong dat or not - and I am almost sure that it is only in dat file.

And minor suggestion for sound-proof walls for bridges - what about such (very simple) one?
(http://www.suncad.cz/suncad/admin/upload/projects/l/19827094414930158b2b704.jpg)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on February 13, 2012, 06:56:50 PM
That is more likely a wind protection wall, winds at bridges can be quite dangerous to lorries.


Fabio, if you want to make catenary for different speed visually different, the main way to do so would be reducing the spacing between poles. The higher the speed gets, the close poles have to be spaced, for a long time catenary was the limiting factor for the possible speed on a high speed lines.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on February 13, 2012, 07:36:49 PM
That is more likely a wind protection wall, winds at bridges can be quite dangerous to lorries.
May it be - too.
Photo of D1 highway bridge over Sázava (river).
Here it is wind-barrier.
(http://www.casopisstavebnictvi.cz/UserFiles/Image/2010/1009/71_hvezdonice.jpg)

But here it is sound-proof wall.
(http://www.smp.cz/userfiles/image/koridor/PHS%20Senohrabym.jpg)

Quote
Fabio, if you want to make catenary for different speed visually different, the main way to do so would be reducing the spacing between poles. The higher the speed gets, the close poles have to be spaced, for a long time catenary was the limiting factor for the possible speed on a high speed lines.
Closer electrification poles may be interesting idea but I don't think that it is really good one. So I would like to suggest more shapes for poles.

For example you can have simple bridge poles
(http://dopravni.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/2009-05-07_11.10.03_032.jpg)

... curved bridge poles, curved single poles
(http://www.novespojeni.cz/img/fotografie/3758_d.jpg)

or classical single poles
(http://files.elektrifikovane-trate.webnode.cz/200000010-bd828be7ea/151683.jpg)
(http://files.elektrifikovane-trate.webnode.cz/200000011-9f36f9fb40/151998.jpg)
that can be on one side or on both sides in some distance along track - so on even kilometers they may be on the left, and on odd kilometers they may be on the right.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on February 13, 2012, 07:40:26 PM
I think the walls are a bit too monotonous...? Maybe only part of these could be player colour, which would allow more texture.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on February 13, 2012, 07:50:01 PM
Do you think those my ones?
I know. Shape could be changed, of course.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Bughu Baas on February 13, 2012, 08:31:53 PM
... curved bridge poles, curved single poles
(http://www.novespojeni.cz/img/fotografie/3758_d.jpg)
A little OT question here: Where was this photo taken? I never saw anything like that before...
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: ӔO on February 13, 2012, 08:35:44 PM
A little OT question here: Where was this photo taken? I never saw anything like that before...

It looks like czech republic. I think I've seen that colour scheme there before.
but where exactly, I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 13, 2012, 09:03:34 PM
I think the walls are a bit too monotonous...? Maybe only part of these could be player colour, which would allow more texture.
Possibly. Also the dithering is ok but not the best outcome possible.
Would concrete be a good option? I'll try tomorrow.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on February 13, 2012, 09:19:22 PM
fabio: I think that would work well :)

Bughu Baas: It's in Prague... dunno where, but I think it's this: http://mapy.cz/#x=14.467362&y=50.092790&z=16&l=15
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on February 13, 2012, 09:45:12 PM
The bridge above, with the slotted structure, reminds me to suggest something like this for hight speed tunnel entrances. To reduce tunnel boom housings with slots or holes are in use and under development.

here's a picture of Katzenbergtunnel, currently under construction, where such windows can be seen.
(http://ais.badische-zeitung.de/piece/00/a5/bc/06/10861574.jpg)


here's the first tunnel booming tunnel in germany: Irlahuell
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/4/43/Irlah%C3%BCll.jpg)
Also note the dense spacing of the masts supporting the catenary. The pressure changes at tunnel entrance has a very severe effect on the wire, with intricate ways to compensate this.

[As a side note, miners of Irlahuell ran into massive difficulties due to Karst. They had to fill up several cavities. Interesting read (google translated)
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FIrlah%25C3%25BClltunnel%23Karstproblematik (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FIrlah%25C3%25BClltunnel%23Karstproblematik) ]
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on February 13, 2012, 09:53:31 PM
It looks like czech republic. I think I've seen that colour scheme there before.
but where exactly, I'm not sure.
It does not like like Czech republic. It is Czech republic.

It was built in Prague to connect Masaryk's station and main station - and to simplify way from Prague to Ústí nad Labem and further ... Bad Schandau, Dresden, Berlin, Hamburg.

Bughu Baas: It's in Prague... dunno where, but I think it's this: http://mapy.cz/#x=14.467362&y=50.092790&z=16&l=15
Yes. It is part of Nové spojení (http://www.novespojeni.cz/fotografie.php) (New connection - you may find some another photos on en.structurae.de).
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 14, 2012, 04:35:31 PM
So, here's a new preview of tracks and bridges for 400 km/h and 320 km/h:

(http://i39.tinypic.com/no7pms.png) (http://i39.tinypic.com/no7pms.png)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Zeno on February 14, 2012, 04:43:31 PM
Wohoo!! Full throttle!! :D

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on February 14, 2012, 05:29:18 PM
Better and better !
I think that daily cost of the maintenance will be very expensive ;-)
Great really !
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on February 14, 2012, 07:44:52 PM
Oh no. I looked on picture again - and deeply. Electrification poles on crossing are (again?) wrong positioned. Look at crossing. Electrification pole is in track. That is clearly confusing - and nonsense.

I know that my very old overhead electrification for speed 160 km/h was graphically poor - but I, at least, prevented such things like poles in track. And how? I did pole for crossing electrification a little higher than other ones - and let all three parts hang on this pole - that was on outer side.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on February 14, 2012, 08:00:02 PM
Heh, I didn't mean you should trash *all* player colour, but this is nice, anyway :)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 14, 2012, 11:32:02 PM
@Vladimir: I know you didn't mean it, but then I didn't find any suitable place for player colour... I mean, just a stripe looks pretty ugly... Like for 160 km/h I will see later, now I'll consider them quite final version. Still elevated to finish, but once the layout is done the road is downhill.

By the way, I hope I'll be able to release by the end of the month an alpha release with summer version of all objects for testing purposes.

@Vaclav: maybe working on existing images could do the trick. I'm definitely willing to work on electrification as well, to make it match with the rest of the set-- maybe together with the winter version of the objects...

@all: thank you for the most appreciated feedback!
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 15, 2012, 06:47:00 PM
Still WIP (mostly some disalignment and missing pillars), elevated for 400 km/h and 320 km/h.
Take a look at the pillars for 400 km/h (only elevated, bridges will maintain those of previous screenshot).

400 km/h
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2weglz4.png) (http://i39.tinypic.com/2weglz4.png)

320 km/h
(http://i40.tinypic.com/idzo1g.png) (http://i40.tinypic.com/idzo1g.png)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on February 15, 2012, 07:29:03 PM
fabio
cool photo they you be take here in the forum.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on February 16, 2012, 01:31:16 AM
This looks rather good. Some suggestions though:

There could be more structure on the rail bed, it's a bit difficult at the very rough resolution of a pak. But pronouncing the perpendicular lines a bit more would help. You could also darken the area next to the concret bed. The elements of the concrete bed are made from a different concrete, the water also runs down from them, taking dirt to the area below.

The surface next to the rail could be brocken up by some water management structures and cable channels. That would be something looking like a walkway close to the parapet and some dark gray irregular gradient perpendicular to the rail direction.

Some corrosion could break up the large grey surfaces on the outside. That's some brownish stains, if you put it at the ends of tiles it would also emphasize the tiles.

sorry not offering any sollutions here, i can't imagine how anything could be done at this scale -- but i couldn't imaginen how anything like the above could be done -- yet you did it.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: HDomos on February 16, 2012, 03:14:21 PM
Awesome tracks :) i can't wait to play with them... Small thing... it is a little bit strangness with the 320km/h and 400km/h elevated diagonal tracks when they go horizontal on the pictures, the pillars aren't there... Maybe it's an optical illusion, but its strange...
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 16, 2012, 05:43:08 PM
Well spotted! Pillars are missing. Next screenshot will feature them.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 17, 2012, 09:57:50 AM
Now, new (improved) screenshots:

400 km/h elevated

(http://i44.tinypic.com/o7j0vr.png) (http://i44.tinypic.com/o7j0vr.png)


320 km/h elevated

(http://i39.tinypic.com/2e1a9gw.png) (http://i39.tinypic.com/2e1a9gw.png)


400 and 320 km/h bridges

(http://i40.tinypic.com/6jot29.png) (http://i40.tinypic.com/6jot29.png)


There could be more structure on the rail bed, it's a bit difficult at the very rough resolution of a pak. But pronouncing the perpendicular lines a bit more would help. You could also darken the area next to the concret bed. The elements of the concrete bed are made from a different concrete, the water also runs down from them, taking dirt to the area below.

The surface next to the rail could be brocken up by some water management structures and cable channels. That would be something looking like a walkway close to the parapet and some dark gray irregular gradient perpendicular to the rail direction.

Some corrosion could break up the large grey surfaces on the outside. That's some brownish stains, if you put it at the ends of tiles it would also emphasize the tiles.

Not done yet-- I'll consider these suggestions (also applicable for other bridges, of course) in a second phase, probably after the test release, while I'll prepare also the winter version.  Thanks anyway, they are much appreciated!
Title: Re: Presentation of new chain of food industries
Post by: sdog on February 18, 2012, 05:16:55 AM
picture for reference:
http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Alptransit_LBT_Raron_Rhonebridge.jpg&filetimestamp=20060815204208


http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Alptransit_Loetschberg_BT_south_portal_panorama.jpg&filetimestamp=20060815205030

Bridges crossing river Rotten near the Lötschberg tunnel in switzerland on the line Basel - Milano.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 20, 2012, 06:11:05 PM
New preview: 200 km/h bridge (years 1940-2000; repainted from scratch)

(http://i42.tinypic.com/n4cv0p.png) (http://i42.tinypic.com/n4cv0p.png)

(http://i39.tinypic.com/2087fi1.png) (http://i39.tinypic.com/2087fi1.png)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on February 20, 2012, 09:06:49 PM
That's a bit too thick, I think...
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on February 20, 2012, 10:43:24 PM
i was thinking the same as VS. (i didn't use the similar looking bridge in the old pak for that reason)


two more (non-constructive) critcisms:
the colour looks a bit like it is made from stainless steel.
the beams look like they were rounded. you might want to put some shade close to the edges to make them look like concave instead of convex, to resemble profiled steel (WP: I-beam, aka H-beam, Rolled Steel Joist)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 20, 2012, 11:22:24 PM
I can agree on size. Now it's 8 px wide, I think 4-6 px could new enough, without looking too flimsy. Instead it's 3 to 4 px thick and it can't get less.
It's supposed to be concrete and it uses the same texture of its tunnel and of 160 km/h bridge (whereas 180, 320 and 400 km/h bridges use a lighter concrete texture).  Maybe the lighting is too strong, giving it the metal feeling.
Being concrete, though, exclude IMHO the option of I-beam profile (which will be uses for slower speeds truss bridges).
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on February 21, 2012, 02:19:35 AM
oh, therefor the large width! perhaps if it appears more like concrete, the width of the structure does not look strange anymore.

Haven't seen such a bridge yet fabio, how are they called, so i can google?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on February 21, 2012, 09:03:47 AM
+1 @ sdog...
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 21, 2012, 09:33:46 AM
The model is bowstring/tied arch bridge. They are usually made of concrete or latticework. 200 km/h will be in concrete, 240 km/h will likely be in latticework.
Maybe the concrete one could be 4-6 px wide and as thick.

This is the model I use for the above bridge:

(http://i44.tinypic.com/ou439s.jpg) (http://i44.tinypic.com/ou439s.jpg)

EDIT: Uploaded image with Tinypic, as the link provided didn't work
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on February 21, 2012, 12:37:44 PM
I'm late I'm afraid... But come back after few days of holidays...

About 320 & 400 km/h elevated...
Just a little suggestion : drawing additionnal shadow of wall like this :
(http://www.simutrans-france.fr.nf/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=fr:shadow_elevated_bridge.png)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on February 22, 2012, 04:07:46 PM
New screenshot for 200 km/h bridge (revised):

(http://i43.tinypic.com/1zlvwqb.png) (http://i43.tinypic.com/1zlvwqb.png)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on February 22, 2012, 04:28:21 PM
Cool Fabio great work.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: ӔO on February 22, 2012, 05:04:02 PM
the 200km/h bridge looks much better now.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on February 22, 2012, 05:41:52 PM
looks very good now fabio, and thanks for the references.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on March 02, 2012, 06:28:11 PM
I didn't update screenshots for more than a week!

Here's new 240 km/h bridge:
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2hhdlww.png) (http://i39.tinypic.com/2hhdlww.png)

And here's an updated 200 km/h bridge:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/b8nlu.png) (http://i43.tinypic.com/b8nlu.png)

Here, finally, the updated version of 400 km/h elevated:
(http://i39.tinypic.com/wgxa10.png) (http://i39.tinypic.com/wgxa10.png)
It features two little pieces of magic:
- new front images for ways (I'll never thank Dwachs enough)
- the tile upslope is actually 144 px tall ;) This allows space for the back fence. It's accomplished having 2 different offsets for back and front image and painting the front pillar in the front image.
You can also see mEGa's shade in vertical diagonals.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on March 03, 2012, 05:03:01 PM
Hi,

Always so successful !

I notice one thing about shades (once again ;-) ). I mean you notice too and will correct this.
See the joined sight.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on March 06, 2012, 06:39:51 PM
Here's another preview: 100 km/h and 120 km/h truss bridges:

(http://i44.tinypic.com/1z2k85c.png) (http://i44.tinypic.com/1z2k85c.png)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: prissi on March 07, 2012, 02:32:50 PM
The bridge look extremely generic. More like 8 bit colors, and way too plain.

And the track on the grass has way too little contrast, I see no sleepers at all. Maybe this is an unlucky combination, but it gives a strong toy look to me.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: ӔO on March 11, 2012, 03:23:12 PM
some of those types of steel truss bridges don't use sleepers or a walkable deck at all. Instead the rails are fastened to a longitudinal beam. This solves a problem with keeping ballast on the deck and it cuts down on amount of materials required.
example: http://youtu.be/EehbbXZj6D4?t=2m8s
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on March 14, 2012, 05:09:59 PM
Truss completely reworked, I hope with better results.

This is a preview, some errors (e.g. missing pillars) are known.

Thanks for your feedback!

(http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/railtracks/screenshots/simscr04.png) (http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/railtracks/screenshots/simscr04.png)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: DCD on March 14, 2012, 05:18:34 PM
I didn't update screenshots for more than a week!

Here's new 240 km/h bridge:
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2hhdlww.png) (http://i39.tinypic.com/2hhdlww.png)

And here's an updated 200 km/h bridge:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/b8nlu.png) (http://i43.tinypic.com/b8nlu.png)

Here, finally, the updated version of 400 km/h elevated:
(http://i39.tinypic.com/wgxa10.png) (http://i39.tinypic.com/wgxa10.png)
It features two little pieces of magic:
- new front images for ways (I'll never thank Dwachs enough)
- the tile upslope is actually 144 px tall ;) This allows space for the back fence. It's accomplished having 2 different offsets for back and front image and painting the front pillar in the front image.
You can also see mEGa's shade in vertical diagonals.


very very beautiful   :o      i like that

great work
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: ӔO on March 14, 2012, 07:12:39 PM
I think all 4 of those truss bridges are good. I think the first version could be used as well, as long as the deck from the second version is used.

I also think the second version could be one tone darker.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on March 24, 2012, 12:01:20 AM
I'm still working on bridges, now on the oldest / lowest speed. Screenshots will follow.



Here's a very interesting reading about bridge types. I wanted to share it, although many of these types are not possible / not nice with the current bridges code.

http://pghbridges.com/basics.htm
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on March 24, 2012, 04:49:45 PM
Very very interesting. Thanks to have shared this resource.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Václav on March 24, 2012, 05:50:02 PM
It is very interesting, I agree with mEGa - but here is also one minor problem - some ones cannot be done - or only with big problems - due to slope bridge entrances - and some only for very short bridges (with total limit of 3 tiles - it means two entrances and one middle part).
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on April 16, 2012, 04:41:15 PM

Just to bump this thread...

The work is proceding, slowly but steady enough.

Estimated work statistics:
TRACK
BRIDGE
ELEVATED
TUNNEL
TOTAL
60
90%
80%
85%
80
90%
80%
90%
87%
80
90%
80%
90%
87%
100
90%
80%
90%
87%
120
90%
80%
90%
87%
140
90%
60%
60%
90%
75%
160
90%
60%
60%
90%
75%
180
90%
60%
60%
90%
75%
200
90%
90%
5%
90%
69%
240
90%
80%
5%
90%
66%
280
90%
5%
5%
5%
26%
320
90%
90%
90%
5%
69%
400
90%
90%
90%
5%
69%
TOTAL
90%
72%
47%
69%
73%

All in black is ready for test release. it misses snow version, which will be added later (= between test release and final release).

Red: This part is missing or must be redone from the scratch, I'll work on it soon.

Orange: These bridges were ready, but now I want to try to make them larger (= 1 full tile) for better look with stations. These tracks (140, 160 and 180 km/h) are intended to be the general purpose tracks, and those used in urban sections, so they need to look good with a station. Widening them shouldn't take long.

Dark red: Mostly done, they possibly need some improvement of their ramps.

I know this set is long overdue, I hope I can deliver it soon enough for testing.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: PkK on April 26, 2012, 09:22:16 AM
1) Thanks for all the new tracks. simutrans really needs a complete track set and the current lack of fast bridges really hurts it.
2) I'd like to see earlier elevated railways. AFAIR the 5.5. km elevated London and Greenwich Railway opened in 1838.

http://www.engrailhistory.info/imfile/r03812.jpg (http://www.engrailhistory.info/imfile/r03812.jpg)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/London-Greenwich_viaduct.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/London-Greenwich_viaduct.jpg)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on May 04, 2012, 01:01:05 PM
Ok, 140, 160 and 180 km/h repainted (just a couple of details needed), now they are a full tile wide:

(http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/railtracks/screenshots/simscr13.png)
(http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/railtracks/screenshots/simscr10.png)
(http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/railtracks/screenshots/simscr11.png)
(http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/railtracks/screenshots/simscr12.png)



1) Thanks for all the new tracks. simutrans really needs a complete track set and the current lack of fast bridges really hurts it.
2) I'd like to see earlier elevated railways. AFAIR the 5.5. km elevated London and Greenwich Railway opened in 1838.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll see to plan better the early age, maybe adding a new 120 km railtrack including elevated as well.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on May 04, 2012, 03:16:44 PM
Great !
As you answered me, I can help you creating tracks tube under tunnel.

Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on May 04, 2012, 04:56:48 PM
Fabio
Nice Photo what you bemake have!
Title: Pack 128: High Speed Tunnels
Post by: Paderau on August 02, 2012, 08:19:49 PM
Hello!
I need tunnels for High speed trains ...more than 280 km/h >>> 420km/h like Bridges seems a good speed...
I'm a beginner and don't know how to create that!
Does it exist?
Where is it possible to Load them?

Thanks for your help!
And have fun!
Title: Re: Pack 128: High Speed Tunnels
Post by: Fabio on August 02, 2012, 10:35:56 PM
They are planned.
Actually, they are the last objects completely missing from my replacement set...
Title: Re: Pack 128: High Speed Tunnels
Post by: Paderau on August 09, 2012, 01:23:08 PM
Thanks Fabio for your Help
and please, let me know when they are ready
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: PkK on August 12, 2012, 12:16:46 PM
How about putting the best parts of this into the main pak?
The current main pak really has some shortcomings, in particular the lack of fast bridges. So how about just getting the fast bridges into main? In case the track replacement project gets completed some time, the other items can always be put into the main pack then.

Philipp
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on August 13, 2012, 08:02:06 AM
Hello!
I need tunnels for High speed trains ...more than 280 km/h >>> 420km/h like Bridges seems a good speed...
I'm a beginner and don't know how to create that!
Does it exist?
Where is it possible to Load them?

Before planned replacement tunnels, you can use japanese addons may be :
http://japanese.simutrans.com/index.php?Addon128%2FRailTools%202#m0655a6e
But max speed is only 360 km/h
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on August 13, 2012, 04:16:45 PM
This addon are Cool.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Ghost-cz on September 01, 2012, 04:04:39 PM
yeah man, the bridges look fantastic....when will you release it? I can´t w8  8)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on September 01, 2012, 06:46:39 PM
Ghost-cz
Fabio work slowly but very good.
Then you try to make steam that Fabio faster work it Posible that he go in Strike.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Ghost-cz on September 07, 2012, 10:50:31 AM
just asking lol
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on September 11, 2012, 03:40:25 PM
Ghost-cz
I Work self on a Pakset but the Ajust from prices and Power needs many time.
Title: Tracks replacement project for pak 128 - Test release - Part 1
Post by: Fabio on September 21, 2012, 03:52:40 PM
I must confess the works got slowed/delayed in the last few months.

So I decided to release a test pak including only 60 km/h to 180 km/h.

These are (should be) finalized in their summer version.
After I receive some feedback, I believe also the sources could be released and replace in the official pakset all tracks up to 160 km/h.

:down: test-railtracks-120921.zip (http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/railtracks/test-railtracks-120921.zip) (1.25 MB)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on September 21, 2012, 04:15:55 PM
Fabio
Nice that you be relase a Testpakfile.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Zeno on September 21, 2012, 04:59:06 PM
Hey fabio, these tracks look great!
I have a question though. I have seen that in 1995 there is availability of elevated tracks of 160 km/h only. Is that intended or you've got to adjust timeline yet?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on September 21, 2012, 05:08:48 PM
Thank you!
It's intended, as 180 km/h tracks (and matching elevated, bridges, and tunnels) will be introduced in 2000 to replace 160 km/h set and 140 km/h set retired in 1980 (120 km/h elevated retired in 1940 replaced by 160 km/h set).

The full set will have plenty more elevated (for each higher speed: 200, 240, 280, 320, and 400 km/h). Most of these are almost ready (and I play with them in my personal test pakset), but still some details are missing or wrong.

In recent times, speeds lower than 160 (180) km/h are considered (and painted) for freight, where players build less articulated layouts. Also, this allows to some bridge design and narrower deck which wouldn't look well with elevated.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Zeno on September 21, 2012, 05:16:55 PM
Mmmm... not sure. What if I say that I miss a slower elevated track? They could be used for elevated metro, like in Chicago, Vancouver or Bangkok. Metro trains are usually slower, 90 km/h or similar, so there's no sense using them in a 160 km/h infrastructure.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on September 21, 2012, 05:35:00 PM
My metros are usually built with 160-180 km/h tracks (used at 140 km/h by one of my favorite Simutrans trains: Renfe_447 :D), but now I get your point.

We could think of an additional family of urban heavy rail (80 km/h 1900-1960 and 100 km/h afterwards) but we should balance them to make them unattractive for freight but attractive in urban areas (e.g. plain track, tunnel and elevated costing more or less the same (say, with the proportion of a bridge, which would be cheap for tunnels) but with high maintainance, so that they are a good choice for entirely underground networks but limited in length.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Zeno on September 21, 2012, 08:47:22 PM
Hey, sounds good. 100 km/h is enough low but there's the point that you mention about raising maintenance so it is not used for freight transport.

Btw, the 447 is our heavy local train, that brings people from Barcelona's region to the city itself and out again in all directions. Being replaced by newer trains in the latest years though :)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on September 21, 2012, 09:24:55 PM
Just a question about 447... Why all middle cars have 2 pantographs? Or is it only found in 3-car layouts?
I use it as long as my network needs, e.g. the longest I built in my latest game have 12 cars :D
(Front-Car-Back-Front-Car-Back-Front-Car-Back-Front-Car-Back)
They can carry HUGE amount of people!!!
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: tonu on September 21, 2012, 09:37:12 PM
Excellent! They're great! I can solve some railways' crossings with these elevated tracks.
Is it supposed that rails' crossings change their layout according to the trains that cross?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Zeno on September 21, 2012, 10:04:15 PM
Just a question about 447... Why all middle cars have 2 pantographs? Or is it only found in 3-car layouts?
See image here (http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/447/Garraf/cercanias_garaf_10091999.jpg). You explained well, FCB-FCB is the standard layout. And you're right, they are set to carry (too) many people.

Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: PkK on September 22, 2012, 07:28:27 AM
In general, I like the new tracks, but I have a bit of criticism:

1) In the menu the symbols for them have such a weird red circle filled with white with a black number inside in the upper left. It seems this number conincedes with the speed limit in km/h. How about using something like the German Lf 4 ot Lf 7 instead? See http://www.stellwerke.de/signal/deutsch/lf.html (http://www.stellwerke.de/signal/deutsch/lf.html) for two Lf 4 variants and http://www.stellwerke.de/signal/deutsch/lf.html (http://www.stellwerke.de/signal/deutsch/lf.html) for Lf 7. These have the speed limit in tens of km/h. AFAIK many European and Asian countried use similar speed signals. I do not know about the rest of the world.

2) The different variants of track for a given speed seem to mostly differ in the ballast and rails. In reality, however the most noticeable visual difference is in the sleepers: Concrete and Y-type steel sleepers are now commonly used for all speeds (reduced maintenance cost compared to wooden sleepers, reduced construction cost compared to classic steel sleepers).

P.S.:
3) Please give us some high-speed bridges and tunnels to test; IMO the lack of high-speed bridges is a serious shortcoming of current pak128. Even when some of the intermediate speeds are not yet released by you, this gives motivation to play a whole game using your tracks, which will increase test coverage.

Philipp
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: kierongreen on September 22, 2012, 11:27:06 AM
Quote
In the menu the symbols for them have such a weird red circle filled with white with a black number inside in the upper left. It seems this number conincedes with the speed limit in km/h.
Britain has these type of signs on railways (and roads) but in mph. Also this type of sign (either in mph or km/h) is also used on roads in many countries worldwide so should be familiar to people.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: PkK on September 22, 2012, 01:03:08 PM
For the 60 km/h track type, in crossings and junctions, the horizontal sleepers and rails and are missing (gravel is there, as are the vertical tracks).

Philipp

Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on September 22, 2012, 02:59:17 PM
First of all, thanks for the feedback.
Some quick reply, now.

Menu: yes, the circle signs are speed limits. As many countries have different signs, I thought to use road signs both for ease of understanding (and anyway most players wouldn't know how railways speed limits in their country would look like) and for consistency with roads menu.

Sleepers: most of faster tracks will have concrete sleepers, or even sleeperless system (for high speed). Unfortunately the scale of the pakset doesn't allow small changes in sleeper shape be visible, hence the need to change the ballast for each family of tracks (60-80, 80-100-120, 120-140-160-180, 200-240, 280-320-400), changing the sleepers inside the family (dark wood-lighter wood-concrete-lighter concrete).

Junctions: yes, they change shape.

60 km/h tracks: thank you for reporting, I'll check and correct.

Faster tracks: they are still WIP, I'll release them later for testing.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on September 22, 2012, 04:06:10 PM
Fabio
Do you update the Svn to?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: PkK on September 23, 2012, 03:03:45 AM
Junctions: yes, they change shape.

60 km/h tracks: thank you for reporting, I'll check and correct.

You mean the sleepers and rail disappearing at junctions and crossings for some of the directions is intentional?

Philipp
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on September 23, 2012, 04:16:09 PM
Indeed that's intentional.
I find it a decent compromise between realism and game appearance. In real world, at railways switches only small pieces of tracks move, in Simutrans scale you wouldn't notice it. But in Pak 64 also the ballast changes, and I find it too unrealistic.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: PkK on September 23, 2012, 04:27:57 PM
OK. However I sometimes get an ugly right angle turn.
When I have to adjacent parallel tracks, and they are connected at some point, I often see the graphical configuration for a U-turn, even when no train ever uses it.

Philipp
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on September 23, 2012, 04:34:58 PM
Could you post a screenshot?

Some possible issues are:
1) game engine picking the wrong image -- I made them based on Pak 64 ones.
2) no train is near but ths switch is reserved. Press 'b' key to see reservations displayed in red overlay on tracks.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fifty on September 23, 2012, 04:59:29 PM
Great work Fabio! These tracks look good and are desperately needed in 128. A few issues/comments:

The ramps that lead onto the 100 km/h bridge lack sleepers. All of the other bridges with similar ramps have them and it looks a bit weird. See the red circle in the image below (click for larger)
(http://thumbnails102.imagebam.com/21191/5f95ee211901479.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/5f95ee211901479)

One caveat is the new 80 km/h track. To me, it looks like two steel rails in a farm field. Freight networks will tend to have a lot of this track, so I would think it would look nicer a bit more like the two older tracks for 100 or 120 km/h (below the new 80 km/h in the screenshot above). Maybe a narrower and flatter grey ballast with some some weeds in the middle?

It might also be useful to keep just the 140 km/h track, and not the related tunnels and bridges, into the future to give a little bit of variety.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: ӔO on September 23, 2012, 05:57:41 PM
one idea for that 80km/h track, would be to make it look cheaper.
Some shrubbery growing on the track and less ballast might do the trick.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on September 23, 2012, 06:30:10 PM
The new Track´slooks very good out!
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on September 23, 2012, 06:35:51 PM
Less ballast is tricky in junctions. To keep the tracks alignment they should have a little offset, I wonder if it would look good.
Weeds or shrubbery could be nice but what about different climates? They could be transparent spots?

I disagree with keeping a track without the matching infrastructure. But the max gap would be 120 to 180 km/h, not a big one.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: PkK on September 24, 2012, 12:50:23 AM
Since it is so hard to make a profit in early years, partly due infrastructure maintenance and since early railways were slow, I propose to add a 40 km/h track (which could roughly correspond to the current US class 2 track, which allows for 40 km/h freight and 48 km/h passenger operation). I'd suggest to introduce it around 1825 or 1830, before Stephensons "Rocket". This would place it in the age of iron rail (as opposed to later steel rail, which was first used in 1857).

Philipp

Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on September 24, 2012, 09:42:52 AM
Hi Fabio,

My first graphic feedback about your test submission :

I also noticed little bugs with few junctions of different tracks as joined snapshot show :

- with 120 km/h tunnels
- with 120 km/h junction bridges
- with 160 km/h junction bridges

featuring :
simutrans 111.3.1r5843
pak 128 2.1.0


As I tell it few posts later, great great works !


Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: ӔO on September 24, 2012, 06:06:44 PM
Less ballast is tricky in junctions. To keep the tracks alignment they should have a little offset, I wonder if it would look good.
Weeds or shrubbery could be nice but what about different climates? They could be transparent spots?

I disagree with keeping a track without the matching infrastructure. But the max gap would be 120 to 180 km/h, not a big one.

Yeah, I think a few transparent pixels might do the trick.

As an alternative, a rusty looking set of rails, perhaps?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Zeno on September 24, 2012, 09:21:55 PM
I also noticed little bugs with few junctions of different tracks as joined snapshot show :
I also saw some glitches like the ones you show in bug1 and bug2, but I think those glitches are caused by the screen painting routine rather than by fabio's graphics; the ones I see just vanish whenever I drag to another location in the map.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on September 25, 2012, 08:04:17 AM
I also saw some glitches like the ones you show in bug1 and bug2, but I think those glitches are caused by the screen painting routine rather than by fabio's graphics; the ones I see just vanish whenever I drag to another location in the map.

You're right !
I use Linux and I play games of Simutrans on that OS. So I tested with game on Windows (better NVIDIA driver than on Linux) and I don't see these on same place.

@ Fabio :
Sorry for my bad feedback ;-)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: PkK on September 27, 2012, 12:28:55 PM
I noticed a graphics bug in 140 km/h elevated way junctions, where the side wall is on the wrong side (i.e. in the track instead of the opposite side).
 
http://colecovision.eu/stuff/elevbug140.png

 Philipp

 
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on October 07, 2012, 02:24:25 PM
If I understand correctly, the current status is "bug hunting" ?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: HDomos on October 30, 2012, 07:48:20 PM
If I want to start simutrans experimental r1011 with your tracks in the pak folder the game crashes with error:
FATAL ERROR:
way_reader_t::read_node()
Invalid version 5
PRESS ANY KEY
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Ghost-cz on November 10, 2012, 11:48:00 AM
yea same
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on November 10, 2012, 02:51:10 PM
HDomos & Ghost-cz
The pakfiles they make for Simutrans 112 can not load with simutrans experimental r1011.
They have diverent datastructurs.
Please read those thema:
http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=10769.0
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: HDomos on November 10, 2012, 10:10:46 PM
Whoops... I realized that, but only after i wrote this and i forgot to mention it...  :-X
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on November 20, 2012, 11:33:18 AM
If I understand correctly, the current status is "bug hunting" ?

Now that I can access freely the SVN server, I think I should plan to (partly) release and commit this set.
I was thinking of phasing the introduction of the new tracks in 4 steps.

   OLD (to be replaced)   NEW (to replace)   
Step 1   160 km/h (1932+)   120 km/h (1840-1940)
140 km/h (1910-1980)
160 km/h (1930-2000)
180 km/h (2000+)
   in r1043
Step 2   110 km/h (1870+)   80 km/h (1840-1950)
100 km/h (1870-1980)
120 km/h (1980+)
   in r1046
Step 3   65 km/h (1810+)   60 km/h (1810-1970)
80 km/h (1950+)
   
Step 4A      200 km/h (1940-2000)
240 km/h (2000+)
   in r1052
Step 4B   280 km/h (1965+)
400 km/h (1978+)
   200 km/h (1940-2000)
320 km/h (1980+)
400 km/h (2010+)
   

The steps order is due to current completion status, although it's not written in the stone.
The pre-release I made covers steps 1 to 3. I must fix the bugs found, add some snow, add a real icon/cursor, and commit.
If nobody objects, I'll start as planned.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: PkK on November 20, 2012, 11:43:52 AM
Again, the pak128 currently lacks a fast bridge, so I would suggest to include one of the fast bridges in an early step.

Philipp
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on November 20, 2012, 11:48:53 AM
All these steps could be done in a reasonable time (by next release? Sure I hope so!)

However, during Step 1 I could recycle existing 160 km/h bridge as a provisional 280 km/h bridge until Step 4 is completed.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on November 22, 2012, 03:05:47 PM
Step 1 [120 km/h (1840-1940) 140 km/h (1910-1980) 160 km/h (1930-2000) 180 km/h (2000+)] added in r1043.

I could recycle existing 160 km/h bridge as a provisional 280 km/h bridge until Step 4 is completed.
Done! Now existing 160 km/h bridge graphics are used for (new) TRACK_280_BRIDGE until new graphics are released.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: PkK on November 22, 2012, 03:06:48 PM
Thanks. I'll try it as soon as I find time.

Philipp
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on November 23, 2012, 12:55:59 PM
Step 2 done and uploaded in r1046.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on November 23, 2012, 06:15:45 PM
fabio
I have a small wish 
a track for  120 km/h from 1940 until 1980,
the 100 Km/h after 1980,
the 160 km/h track after 2000 will i for use,
the 200 km/h track after 2000 miss i,
and the 280 km/h track miss i after 2010.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on November 23, 2012, 06:24:03 PM
Use the faster/slower versions, their cost is not much higher.
I know the tracks are not available all the time, it's on purpose. Our just play with the timeline off.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on November 23, 2012, 06:56:24 PM
ok fabio
then must i a make a little work around in my Pakset.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on November 26, 2012, 04:48:59 PM
(http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/railtracks/screenshots/simscr23.png)

New 200 and 240 km/h subsets committed in r1052.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on November 26, 2012, 04:54:51 PM
Fabio
You are open for a idea?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: PkK on November 26, 2012, 04:56:44 PM
Hmm, the metal going right to the ground looks susceptible to corrossion. How about a small stone/concrete base?

Philipp
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on November 26, 2012, 05:10:12 PM
I rather like the lattice structure at the point!

That's a very nice new station!
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on November 26, 2012, 05:19:36 PM
Hmm, the metal going right to the ground looks susceptible to corrossion. How about a small stone/concrete base?
Maybe in the future... :::)
You could think they are bolted to a concrete basement not visible above ground level ;)

Thank you anyway for the suggestion. Now my primary goal is to release the complete set, further improvement (except for bug reports) can come later on, I'm kind of overwhelmed right now...

I rather like the lattice structure at the point!
Thank you!

That's a very nice new station!
Well, it's the old station, simply enclosed in the new lattice structure 8)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Sarlock on November 26, 2012, 05:20:32 PM
Very nice!  It took me a couple of minutes to decide whether I liked it or not but the longer I looked at it the more I liked it... nice work!
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on November 26, 2012, 05:21:03 PM
"Well, it's the old station, simply enclosed in the new lattice structure."
Oh, i thought you clipped it to fit in. The old ones actually fit in!?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: PkK on November 26, 2012, 05:21:28 PM
Well, it's the old station, simply enclosed in the new lattice structure 8)

Still it fits quite nicely, especially with the 200 km/h version.

Philipp
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on November 26, 2012, 05:31:44 PM
Oh, i thought you clipped it to fit in. The old ones actually fit in!?
Sure, I did the other way around: tailoring the structure around the station!
Those 240 km/h bridges have a clearance around 40 px and the whole structure is taller than 80 px ;)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on November 26, 2012, 05:48:22 PM
Oh.
Wow.

I'd say something may need to be done to avert "blue overload" later, but... well... :O

Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: ӔO on November 26, 2012, 06:24:33 PM
I suggest using player sub colour (yellow) for either top or bottom piece.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on November 26, 2012, 06:29:26 PM
I suggest using player sub colour (yellow) for either top or bottom piece.

It would be even more colorful (especially when 2PC is yellow by default), and I feel it's already too colorful... I was thinking more of some greyish/brownish metal... but as I said, it will be later (or if someone volunteers ;))...
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Vladki on November 26, 2012, 08:26:35 PM
There's something strange with the diagonal piece of 240 km/h track. The bottom piece of back side and top piece of front side, blend together so it looks as if the front top piece has double width. Either a few pixels gap, or different color for top/bottom or inside/outside, would help.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on November 26, 2012, 10:12:18 PM
The hood has some very nice colour for steel structures for his pak britain stations. Unless you find it immediately i can dig out the thread.

Those latice structures are modern (240km/h)? I'd have guessed first third of the 20th century, but i'm not very well educated.

A possible base for the girder would be to use just a concrete slab, like the one VS introduced as station extension. At the moment they appear a little bit like they would be floating. That's just a remark for later, since you already got your timetable for release. Better to release before perfection and improve upon that then having excellent 99% finished things sitting on a harddrive for ever.

And this stuff is truly excellent. You almost made a completely new pak Fabiou & Friends.

We ought to do some screenshots same setting of pak128 last closed source and the soon to be reached stage. The difference is, i expect, both outstanding and fine.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: tonu on November 26, 2012, 10:52:51 PM
Excellent! Are they avaible for testing?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on November 26, 2012, 11:35:19 PM
Yes tonu, they were commited to the SVN today. Caveat is you need to 'compile' the pakset yourself*. Else you'll probably have to wait until the next nightly on thursday.

on github:
https://github.com/pak128svn/simutrans-pak128/commit/eb28368a5ff190adcd1db6b71e8aaafe15d9f332


you'd need a recent version of makeobj (check simutrans download thread) and working python on your machine, then the pakmak.py script will likely finish the job automatically.
You can ge the sourcefiles either from:
https://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/simutrans/pak128/
github:
https://github.com/pak128svn/simutrans-pak128
what to use depends on what versioning software you prefer.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on November 26, 2012, 11:47:44 PM
Thank you sdog!

Of course the golden age of truss bridges was in the first third of 20th century. Iron bridges are rarer in recent times, but not unheard of.

This bridge was opened in Strasbourg in 2010: http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11969371

This one (road) was built in 2005  in upstate New York: http://bridgehunter.com/ny/niagara/prospect-street/

I favor a consistent look over engineering accuracy. This bridge is to replace the 200 km/h one, so it better look similar, but somehow upgraded, on steroids.

Also bridge design is strictly limited in Simutrans. Most modern steel bridges are a single through arch. Here we can't reproduce them, or they look ridiculous with a 1 tile span.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on November 26, 2012, 11:54:13 PM
And most causeway type bridges would be concrete. Something not desireable in the pak as they'd all look the same...
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on November 26, 2012, 11:58:48 PM
Exactly. Mind that 160 (replaced by 180) km/h are concrete and all 280, 320, and 400 km/h will be a triumph of concrete ;)
200&240 km/h are just a steel interlude!
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on November 27, 2012, 12:33:51 PM
I just readed this posts series  and I only say two words : amazing work.
Create bridges for Simutrans seems create bridge in real life. I like that !
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on November 27, 2012, 03:12:10 PM
I just readed this posts series  and I only say two words : amazing work.
Create bridges for Simutrans seems create bridge in real life. I like that !

Better to release before perfection and improve upon that then having excellent 99% finished things sitting on a harddrive for ever.

And this stuff is truly excellent. You almost made a completely new pak Fabiou & Friends.

We ought to do some screenshots same setting of pak128 last closed source and the soon to be reached stage. The difference is, i expect, both outstanding and fine.

Hey, guys, do you realize I started planning the rail tracks replacement in September 2006?
Yes, you got it right: 2006. See the thread in the archived old forum: http://archive.forum.simutrans.com/topic/03822.0/index.html
Now, after more than 6 years, it's seeing the finish line.

I feel like I had been working on them forever, painting, repainting, starting all over again.  :o
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: tonu on November 28, 2012, 01:32:28 AM
Yes tonu, they were commited to the SVN today. Caveat is you need to 'compile' the pakset yourself*. Else you'll probably have to wait until the next nightly on thursday.

on github:
https://github.com/pak128svn/simutrans-pak128/commit/eb28368a5ff190adcd1db6b71e8aaafe15d9f332


you'd need a recent version of makeobj (check simutrans download thread) and working python on your machine, then the pakmak.py script will likely finish the job automatically.
You can ge the sourcefiles either from:
https://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/simutrans/pak128/
github:
https://github.com/pak128svn/simutrans-pak128
what to use depends on what versioning software you prefer.
Thanks!
I've never done that, so I'll "experiment" a bit
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on November 28, 2012, 04:27:03 AM
tonu, on what operating system are you building the pak?



This reminds me to update the Makefile. It was last touched by Neroden 2 years ago. (There's likely quite a bit to learn from the recent pak128.britain Makefile, built by Prissi a while ago.)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Zeno on November 28, 2012, 07:56:35 AM
Tonu, if you want to compile only the tracks, pick the contents of all the folders that contain the word "rail" inside the base folder and copy them into a temp folder. Then copy makeobj.exe there, and create a batch/shell file to compile them by calling makeobj this way:
Code: [Select]
makeobj pak128 ./ ./Then move the *.pak files to your pak folder and it's done. I can give you more details if you need it.

By the way, I've tried to keep a compiler batch script (pak128.bat) for windows, but my lazyness hasn't allowed me to make it work completely. Most things are compiled though, but not 100% :-(
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on November 28, 2012, 08:20:38 AM
Hey, guys, do you realize I started planning the rail tracks replacement in September 2006?
I feel like I had been working on them forever, painting, repainting, starting all over again.  :o
Waouh !  I didn't know it. a really big hard work. At this moment, I mean you can see the end of tunnel ;) . Gamer who i am just say: thank you for this project !
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: tonu on November 29, 2012, 04:34:38 PM
@sdog: I'm using Windows XP.
I could compile them, thanks to you all.
I found something strange/funny: The elevated 240 km/h track seems to be suspended in the air, it has no pillars. Am I the only one? I didn't edit the dat files
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5232/vaflotante.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/vaflotante.png/)
I also found a light blue stripe in the diagonal tracks (independent of the player colour):
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3441/vaflotante2.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/vaflotante2.png/)
Regards
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on November 29, 2012, 04:58:23 PM
Thanks for reporting!

I also found a light blue stripe in the diagonal tracks (independent of the player colour):
This should be an easy fix... I put it on the ToDo list.

I found something strange/funny: The elevated 240 km/h track seems to be suspended in the air, it has no pillars. Am I the only one? I didn't edit the dat files
This is wierd. By the way, I tried to reproduce it. At first I had all pillars, then at a certain moment they disappeared!
Probably it's a Simutrans Engine graphical glitch. Pillars are painted in the front image of elevated ways.
Can you give me more details?
Which Simutrans version do you use? And which Makeobj version? Did you see the pillars for a moment and then they disappeared or they just never appeared? Thanks!
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: tonu on November 29, 2012, 06:26:43 PM
I use Simutrans 112.0 (last stable version) in Windows XP
The pillars never appeared in straight parts. You can see they only appear in diagonal views.
I take makeobj from a zip file named "makeobj-win-49", maybe I should try founding a newer version
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on November 29, 2012, 06:39:01 PM
Sure it's Makeobj's fault. You should use v54+ in order to compile Pak128 properly. You can find it linked in latest release's announcement.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: tonu on November 29, 2012, 06:55:54 PM
I recompiled with makeobj 55 and the bug gets fixed. Thanks!
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: HDomos on December 02, 2012, 12:33:20 AM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ZIK7RafRvxQ/ULqgardmDDI/AAAAAAAALqI/RfYRwRl2Am0/s800/simscr175.jpg)
On the 200km/h tunnel entrance, there is a white line (arc) on the right side.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hvptAH09Lqg/ULqhL6lNEtI/AAAAAAAALqQ/0VPHJR0xb0w/s800/simscr176.jpg)
And the top left corner of both entrance is a bit strange (not anti-aliased)...
(I noticed the second only when i zoomed in to take a picture of the first :D)
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on December 06, 2012, 12:36:48 AM
I also found a light blue stripe in the diagonal tracks (independent of the player colour):
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3441/vaflotante2.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/vaflotante2.png/)
Regards

It should be fixed in r1078.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on December 06, 2012, 03:57:22 PM
Fabio
Your work bring me on cool ideas.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on December 13, 2012, 10:53:26 PM
Freight (60 & 80 km/h) tracks, bridges and tunnel are now in r1099.

Here's the bridges:

(http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/rail_bridges/rail_track_060_bridge.png?revision=1099)

(http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/rail_bridges/rail_track_060b_bridge.png?revision=1099)

(http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/rail_bridges/rail_track_080b_bridge.png?revision=1099)

(http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/rail_bridges/rail_track_080_bridge.png?revision=1099)

Just few are missing now.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on December 17, 2012, 01:39:29 AM
posting on github on the work on this project:
https://plus.google.com/115377746519459832106/posts/LwhaN5uBaJ1
Quote
A Glimpse of Fabio Gonellas work

To get an impression of the incredible amount of work involved with Fabio Gonella's new rail project, have a look at this commit*. It is only one of many of similar extend. Not only did he have to pain a large number of images, but also cut them into appropriate tiles, take care of front and back images (something that is displayed before or behind a passing train) and write extensive dat files defining how the images are assembled by the game engine.


*A commit, in a version control system, is a bundle of changes to the previous version. The presentation of it on github shows what was added and what was removed.

(gs)
#simutrans   #simutranspak128  
links to: https://github.com/pak128svn/simutrans-pak128/commit/f0a5e0095c36be468cef3f8324c6112b9548b791
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on December 17, 2012, 05:00:07 PM
Sdog
want you clone the data from simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net on github?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on December 17, 2012, 05:11:16 PM
greenling, we are already doing so for half a year or so:
https://github.com/pak128svn/simutrans-pak128
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: greenling on December 17, 2012, 05:52:33 PM
sdog
i think that´s better it all orginal data for Pak128 Standart to park at on simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net
and the data for Pak128 exp on the github server.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: sdog on December 17, 2012, 06:19:59 PM
all the data is on the SVN greenling, github is only a copy. It is helpful if someone develops on git, or use the nice overview of the changes at github. (it has very nice graphical representation).

But you are in one thing absolutely right, i ought to clearly state that it is only a copy of the SVN.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: dekema2 on December 23, 2012, 06:27:47 AM
Thank you sdog!

Of course the golden age of truss bridges was in the first third of 20th century. Iron bridges are rarer in recent times, but not unheard of.

This bridge was opened in Strasbourg in 2010: http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11969371

This one (road) was built in 2005  in upstate New York: http://bridgehunter.com/ny/niagara/prospect-street/

I favor a consistent look over engineering accuracy. This bridge is to replace the 200 km/h one, so it better look similar, but somehow upgraded, on steroids.

Also bridge design is strictly limited in Simutrans. Most modern steel bridges are a single through arch. Here we can't reproduce them, or they look ridiculous with a 1 tile span.

Believe it or not I went under the second bridge before. This is the Erie Canal. There is even an upside down truss bridge in this same city. Losts of nridges.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: tonu on December 23, 2012, 09:37:32 PM
The complete track set is great! Excellent work. As the speeds of the tracks has changed, maybe the electrifications' speeds would be changed:
110 km/h --> 100 km/h
160 km/h --> 180 km/h (and change the intersections, they are curved and new tracks are oblique)
280 km/h --> 240 km/h
400 km/h no change
What do you think?
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: Fabio on December 24, 2012, 12:12:43 AM
Thank you Tonu!

Definitely electrification must be changed somehow, maybe adding some new catenary as well.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: almaf on January 03, 2013, 08:00:43 PM
I found this crossing without signals and wrong color scheme.
I don't know if is intentional or not.

See attached image. Only happens with a 60 and 80 km/h track.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: VS on January 03, 2013, 09:49:23 PM
This is the "slow" crossing (relatively rare). Colour is not intended, just forgotten. Old tracks were bright like that piece. The other crossing matches the new ones only by chance as well.

I'll see what can be done about this...

edit: Fix committed :) Too late to bother with screenshots and that, sorry...
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: dennosius on January 10, 2013, 02:41:38 PM
Great work! I'm really enjoying the new tunnels and (high) tracks.

Just a remark on the 400km/h track (also applies to the 320): It takes (320: almost) the whole tile, so it connects if built as a double track - but it splits up if built diagonally. My idea would be to leave away the concrete and have a fence around it instead.

The grey concete also makes those tracks look too bold in my eyes. This is of course a matter of taste and high-speed tracks may attract some attention, but a double high speed track attracts too much optical attention.

And another idea (a propos fence):

In my "first Simutrans life", I played with pak.german and it had (and probably still has) fences. That fence is really nice, at it allows city planning a bit. I know Simutrans is not SimCity, but I still like to do city planning a bit, also because how the AI builds city roads... So putting a fence around (meaning on both sides besides it) a fast road prevented a city from claiming the road as a city road and emerge in that direction, for example.

As Simutrans doesn't know fences, I think how they implemented it was as a railway (or narrow gauge or whatever) track with a minimal maxspeed, but still put it to the other tools menu. I'd love to have such fence in pak128.
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: mEGa on January 10, 2013, 04:23:38 PM
Hi,
you can use french addon for fence :
http://www.simutrans-france.fr.nf/doku.php?id=en:fences
Title: Re: Tracks replacement project for pak 128
Post by: AlexSmith on October 29, 2013, 07:29:47 PM
@ASV62 and guys ...

I used one of your images (the one with bridges) to make a review of Simutrans for my trains gaming blog.
I also linked to the official site (download page) and used the official logo too (hopefully that's ok).
Plz check the Simutrans review here (http://www.trainarcade.com/micro-managing-in-simutrans.html) and let me know if it is OK to use all that and of course feel free to let me know what you think about the review itself.
BTW, I am a Simutrans fan but barely a newbie ...