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Simutrans Extended => Simutrans-Extended gameplay discussion => Simutrans-Extended gameplay help requests => Topic started by: JSmith0730 on June 11, 2019, 09:12:16 PM

Title: Passengers have no route on single line...
Post by: JSmith0730 on June 11, 2019, 09:12:16 PM

I was testing a game in 1750 in the Britain pak I made two small towns with a single road connecting them. No industry, no attractions. One stop services each town entirely (literally one residence, a town hall and a depot). I can successfully transport people & mail but I still get a large number of passengers with "No Route" and I have no idea where they want to go. I've tried using the mini-map legend to see destinations but nothing shows up before my station resets passengers & mail at the beginning of the next month.

As I said above I was testing this with no industry or attractions so I don't know if people will want to go places that don't exist on the map yet or not. I also lowered the cost of each carriage to low/very low (to reflect the wealth of these residents) to see if it's an issue with affordability, I even overloaded the map with 2 & 10 passenger carriages to see if that'd change anything but I just kept getting more & more people with no route.

I just have no idea where they theoretically want to go.  ???

Title: Re: Passengers have no route on single line...
Post by: Jando on June 11, 2019, 09:44:05 PM

This is an interesting question, I also notice stops/stations with relatively many "No Route"-passengers. Couldn't yet figure out what causes it. It also happens on a large-ish map where almost all towns are connected to the network.

Will upload a saved game where this can be observed tomorrow.

Title: Re: Passengers have no route on single line...
Post by: ACarlotti on June 11, 2019, 10:06:19 PM

In the case of a very small map, I think what is happening is that each generated passenger considers a constant fraction of the destinations to be ones that the passenger would be interested in visiting, and if any of them can be reached within their journey time tolerance, then they will travel to the first such destination.

So suppose that some passenger is interested in 1/100th of the possible destinations. Then there is a fairly high chance that there is nowhere on your map that they will be interested in visiting. You could perhaps think of these as passengers that want to go to church but can't find a church, or want to go shopping but can't find any shops (although this is a slightly inaccurate description because SImutrans Extended does not currently discriminate between different types of destinations at this level).

Title: Re: Passengers have no route on single line...
Post by: jamespetts on June 11, 2019, 10:21:26 PM

If there are any buildings of any sort on a map that are not covered by public transport (or it is not possible to get from any public transport stop in a map to any other public transport stop in a map), then it is possible for there to be passengers who have no route.

Title: Re: Passengers have no route on single line...
Post by: Jando on June 11, 2019, 11:42:09 PM

What I can't explain with the "No Route" passengers can be seen on this screenshot:

(http://i.imgur.com/Pjl4TQKm.png) (https://imgur.com/Pjl4TQK)

Here you have the small town of Duckbourne, population 7070. One little town served by two train lines and three bus stops. One line with horse omnibus is running from station to cricket ground, the other runs from station to football ground, both via the parish hall. In the shot you see that the stop at the football ground has around 6 times the amount of "No Route" passengers as the other stops or the station in that little town.

I also wonder about the amount of "Too slow" passengers, these are very low at football ground and cricket ground stops. I wonder whether that's because the horse omnibuses wait there for their schedule. I see more cases of stops that seems to have no "Too slow" passengers when a convoy waits for schedule there.

Title: Re: Passengers have no route on single line...
Post by: jamespetts on June 12, 2019, 12:02:49 AM

If a stop serves a large number of origin (residential) buildings and few destination (commercial/industrial) buildings, it is likely to have a higher proportion of no route/too slow than in the converse case. This is because passengers always originate from residential buildings and generate return or onward trips only when they have reached their destination. If the passenger cannot travel to a destination, the passenger does not attempt to travel from the destination, and no no route/too slow indication is generated in the opposite direction.

Title: Re: Passengers have no route on single line...
Post by: Matthew on June 12, 2019, 04:23:01 PM

Quote from: Jando on June 11, 2019, 11:42:09 PM

What I can't explain with the "No Route" passengers can be seen on this screenshot:

<snip>
 In the shot you see that the stop at the football ground has around 6 times the amount of "No Route" passengers as the other stops or the station in that little town.

Just a thought. Could you look at the minimap in 'Commuting' and 'Visiting' modes to see whether there is any difference between the three neighbourhoods?

Another theory. The Cricket Ground and Parish Hall attract higher-class visitors, but the Football Ground [EDIT: lower-class] visitors. So you end up with this situation:

Neighbourhood	Lower class visitors	Upper class visitors
Cricket ground	Nowhere to go, but can't afford to travel	Go to cricket ground
Football ground	Go to football ground	Can afford to travel, but no route
Parish hall	Nowhere to go, but can't afford to travel	Go to parish hall

The obvious flaw in this theory is that the No Route people should be going to the Cricket Ground or Parish Hall.

Title: Re: Passengers have no route on single line...
Post by: Jando on June 13, 2019, 08:43:53 PM

Quote from: Matthew on June 12, 2019, 04:23:01 PM

Another theory. The Cricket Ground and Parish Hall attract higher-class visitors, but the Football Ground visitors. So you end up with this situation:

Well, that is another mystery. Football grounds are not supposed to get very high and high class visitors when I understand the info window correctly, however I see plenty of those passengers visiting football grounds.