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Simutrans Extended => Simutrans Extended Paksets => Pak128.Britain-Ex => Topic started by: thegamer7893 on June 29, 2019, 02:05:01 PM

Title: ETCS [ERTMS] was first used/introduced/designed in 2000
Post by: thegamer7893 on June 29, 2019, 02:05:01 PM
Hi James, just passing on some information reguarding ETCS/ERTMS, it was first used/introduced/designed in 2000.
Title: Re: ETCS [ERTMS] was first used/introduced/designed in 2000
Post by: jamespetts on July 07, 2019, 10:09:21 AM
Thank you for letting me know; however, to which level are you referring? ETRMS level 1 is, so far as the things simulated in Simutrans is concerned, not significantly different to ordinary track circuit block signalling. It is ETRMS level 2 (cab signalling) that is the significant innovation in functional terms, and it is the introduction date of that which is relevant.
Title: Re: ETCS [ERTMS] was first used/introduced/designed in 2000
Post by: thegamer7893 on July 07, 2019, 06:33:50 PM
Thank you for letting me know; however, to which level are you referring? ETRMS level 1 is, so far as the things simulated in Simutrans is concerned, not significantly different to ordinary track circuit block signalling. It is ETRMS level 2 (cab signalling) that is the significant innovation in functional terms, and it is the introduction date of that which is relevant.

TBH, I'm not sure because theres no real information on which Level was introduced first.
Title: Re: ETCS [ERTMS] was first used/introduced/designed in 2000
Post by: Rollmaterial on July 07, 2019, 07:00:41 PM
It is a matter of what is relevant to the pak. If that is introduction in the UK, then it would be inconsistent with introducing TVM in 1981, which is the introduction date in France, instead of 1994 when the Chunnel opened. However, the introduction of the APT may constitute a good reason for that.
Title: Re: ETCS [ERTMS] was first used/introduced/designed in 2000
Post by: thegamer7893 on July 09, 2019, 04:49:05 PM
It is a matter of what is relevant to the pak. If that is introduction in the UK, then it would be inconsistent with introducing TVM in 1981, which is the introduction date in France, instead of 1994 when the Chunnel opened. However, the introduction of the APT may constitute a good reason for that.

True point
Title: Re: ETCS [ERTMS] was first used/introduced/designed in 2000
Post by: jamespetts on July 09, 2019, 09:30:11 PM
The relevant point, I think, is when ETRMS level 2 would first have been available to any hypothetical railway company in the UK, not necessarily when it was, in fact, first installed in the UK.
Title: Re: ETCS [ERTMS] was first used/introduced/designed in 2000
Post by: Freahk on July 17, 2019, 10:51:28 AM
According to the german Wikipedia, the first ETCS tests were in November 2000 in Italy on the track Florenz Campo di Marte–Arezzo, which was ETCS L2 already.
In autumn 2001 the first commercial use of ETCS L1 started in Hungary on the track Zalaegerszeg–Zalalövö–Hodoš
In the end of the year 2002 (no exact date given) the first commercial use of ETCS L2 started in Switzerland.

These dates and jamespatt's statement given, an introduction between November 2000 and December 2002
Title: Re: ETCS [ERTMS] was first used/introduced/designed in 2000
Post by: jamespetts on August 10, 2019, 04:30:09 PM
Thank you for that. I could not find the date of 2002 given. According to this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Train_Control_System#Switzerland) Wikipedia article, the first introduction in Switzerland was in February 2006, so I have put the introduction date for this equipment back to then.
Title: Re: ETCS [ERTMS] was first used/introduced/designed in 2000
Post by: Freahk on August 15, 2019, 06:02:00 PM
"According to this Wikipedia article, the first introduction in Switzerland was in February 2006"
Well that Wikipedia article is not exacty correct however this could be the best choice for introducing ETCS L2 to pak128.britain.

The first introduction of ETCS L2 in Switzerland was at April 27. 2002 at the line Sempach-Zofingen.
On this track ETCS L2 was tested before the final specifications of this system were made.
Not just a few test trains, but any line using this track had to use ETCS L2 there because the signals were removed.
Because the installed ETCS L2 hardware was not compatible to the updated ETCS specifications, the ETCS was removed and replaced by signals on this track in November 30. 2003

At least this is what the gearman Wikipedia article says https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETCS_in_der_Schweiz#Versuchsstrecke_Zofingen%E2%80%93Sempach

I found a question about this in the Question and Answering page of the parliament of Switzerland which confirms the date but does not explicitly state that ETCS L2 was tested there. https://www.parlament.ch/de/ratsbetrieb/suche-curia-vista/geschaeft?AffairId=20033654
Title: Re: ETCS [ERTMS] was first used/introduced/designed in 2000
Post by: jamespetts on August 15, 2019, 08:39:37 PM
The date of introduction of an early, incompatible test system does not seem to be a sensible date for our purposes: the sensible date is the introduction date of the final, production system, which is February 2006.