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PakSets and Customization => Other paksets => Pak48.Excentrique => Topic started by: _Hajo_ on November 16, 2022, 09:30:06 PM

Title: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on November 16, 2022, 09:30:06 PM
Maybe, maybe, maybe it's worth to do pak48.Excentrique again in a higher resolution. Simutrans has evolved, as has hardware. The reasons and limitations to make a small pak set are gone.

But it's a huge endeavor, and I lost the determination and persistence that I once had.

Just making a new lightmap, half height, in 144 pixels, then re-do the power trail, and import two factories in higher resolution too 3 evenings. But lightmap and road/rails are the hardest, I think. To fix all the small pixel mistakes will need many more hours though.

So, maybe, maybe, maybe ...
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: Yona-TYT on November 16, 2022, 09:51:09 PM
Wow very impressive. 8)
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on November 17, 2022, 06:18:41 PM
Thank you!

I've tried to change the melody maker into a more complex structure and added a first water texture. My shore transitions have a problem, though.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on November 18, 2022, 04:43:43 PM
The beat factory is up again!
I feel uncertain about the powerlane, looks so super fat in 144. But I must wait and check again once I have made buildings in 144 size. You can see fragments of the old buildings scattered over the city. I'm using them as placeholder till I have new ones, so I can start the pak in Simutrans.

The things done already are here, as creative commons, CC-BY-SA 4.0:
https://github.com/Varkalandar/pak144.Excentrique

Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on November 18, 2022, 05:55:33 PM
Thanks for the partial transparency code! Now I can make even more crazy stuff.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: Yona-TYT on November 18, 2022, 06:24:17 PM
Quote from: _Hajo_ on November 18, 2022, 05:55:33 PMThanks for the partial transparency code! Now I can make even more crazy stuff.
Wow 8)
He seems to be having a lot of fun with this :D .
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on November 19, 2022, 03:17:48 PM
pak144? How.... gross

(I hope that pun works!)

Joking aside, I think it looks really great so far. I can't wait to see what you end up doing with this :)
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on November 20, 2022, 06:51:47 PM
Quote from: Yona-TYT on November 18, 2022, 06:24:17 PMHe seems to be having a lot of fun with this :D .

Yep. Writing all the dat files feels like work often, but it's fun to experiment with the graphics and see them in the game.

Quote from: Isaac Eiland-Hall on November 19, 2022, 03:17:48 PMJoking aside, I think it looks really great so far. I can't wait to see what you end up doing with this :)

I don't even know by myself yet ;) At the moment it's just a remake of the existing pak48.Excentrique.

And I just finished the new and improved fanfostar with even more trumpet and trombone power!
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: Roboron on November 20, 2022, 11:28:52 PM
Some of these screenshots are looking wonderfully! I like the improved looks!
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: Yona-TYT on November 20, 2022, 11:41:44 PM
Quote from: Roboron on November 20, 2022, 11:28:52 PMSome of these screenshots are looking wonderfully! I like the improved looks!
I bet you ran into this on twitter... heheheheh ;D
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on November 21, 2022, 08:27:25 PM
Quote from: Roboron on November 20, 2022, 11:28:52 PMSome of these screenshots are looking wonderfully! I like the improved looks!

Thank you!

I've been trying to recreate the enerrail/magnatrack but the concept that I had used for pak48.Excentrique didn't look satisfying with the higher resolution.

Now I went for more TTD style maglev tracks. Still not happy with the result. Any ideas?
I don't want to spend time on aligning all the pieces till I'm fairly sure there won't big changes anymore. So now's the time to come up with suggestions and ideas for the magnatracks. Changes colors and brightness is easy at any time.

Also, the stations look quite huge compared to the industry (which is 2x2). Should I make the domes smaller?
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: wlindley on November 22, 2022, 09:57:32 AM
Quote from: _Hajo_ on November 21, 2022, 08:27:25 PMthe stations look quite huge compared to the industry (which is 2x2). Should I make the domes smaller?
Perhaps use the 8-rotation version of the station, so the end domes are (smaller, shorter, or partial) and the center (of 3-or-more-tile stations) domes are the current size?
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on November 22, 2022, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: wlindley on November 22, 2022, 09:57:32 AMPerhaps use the 8-rotation version of the station, so the end domes are (smaller, shorter, or partial) and the center (of 3-or-more-tile stations) domes are the current size?

I didn't know of this option yet. Thanks, I'll check how it works.

Meanwhile I've reduced the magnatrack width by 10% also the station domes. Track alignment is still to do, but I could add a few vehicles to check the size relations. At least for the moment I'm happy with the results, I think this is a foundation to build upon.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on November 25, 2022, 04:00:27 PM
I've been making city elements. Few are final, but I needed something to test sizes and proportions, buildings vs. roads and rails. I will see if I can improve the transparency effect of the crystal buildings, without using real transparency. In a few cases I had to though (two of the red industrial buildings). Display performance still looked good on my 12 year old computer, so I guess it's nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: Yona-TYT on November 25, 2022, 05:28:18 PM
Quote from: _Hajo_ on November 25, 2022, 04:00:27 PMDisplay performance still looked good on my 12 year old computer,
12 years ? I must assume that it is a processor !5 . ???
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on November 25, 2022, 06:02:09 PM
Actually an i7. It was a very good purchase.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: Roboron on November 26, 2022, 01:45:33 PM
Quote from: Yona-TYT on November 20, 2022, 11:41:44 PMI bet you ran into this on twitter... heheheheh ;D

I did not. Indeed, I have been busy setting up my own Mastodon server (https://masto.es) to welcome people flying from Twitter after the acquisition. I am no longer Community Manager. I am Sysadmin now.

Magnatracks are looking better after the change. Overall. I am very excited seeing your progress, Hajo!
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on November 28, 2022, 07:51:58 PM
Thanks! Progress will be slower now, much more detail work coming. Over the weekend I managed to make a new industry thingy, and improve the power tower.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on November 30, 2022, 06:19:57 PM
Been working on it some more. Once there is a new power plant thingy for the industrial parts of town, but likely way more important, I have a version which you can install and play. Just download the pak144.Excentrique-preview_001.zip , put it in your simutrans folder alongside the other paks and unzip it.

It's a mix of elements from the old pak48.Excentrique with all the updates I made so far. I think you can complete the transport for a music chain by magnatrack. There are vehicles, stations and depots, and all factory graphics have been updated. But don't expect too much, many things are just not done yet and you'll see horribly misplaced 48 pixel elements alongside the new 144 pixel elements.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on December 02, 2022, 04:37:25 PM
Tried to clean up the worst mistakes and started to make a new set of icons, in 48x48 pixels. In some areas this starts to look like a proper pak set now.

Installable preview #2.

Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: Yona-TYT on December 02, 2022, 05:22:46 PM
Quote from: _Hajo_ on December 02, 2022, 04:37:25 PMTried to clean up the worst mistakes and started to make a new set of icons, in 48x48 pixels. In some areas this starts to look like a proper pak set now.

Installable preview #2.


Wow  8)
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on December 05, 2022, 08:33:08 PM
The coil depots and the tubular stops are back! Still a lot fine tuning to do there ...
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on December 09, 2022, 04:43:11 PM
So, I reworked the power trail once more. It's a bit flatter, narrower and got rounded ends now. Added two power trail gliders, one for passenger and one for mail transport. Also, replaced the old construction site and builder symbols with higher resolution ones.

Installable, even playable preview #3

Biggest problems for actually playing are the missing bridges and crossings, I think. It's bit like Tron and the light cycles ...
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: Roboron on December 11, 2022, 12:21:24 PM
Rounder borders are cooler  8)
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on December 11, 2022, 05:51:38 PM
Good to know!

I've tried to make "music smoke" for the melody maker, but even using the new multi-tile smoke syntax, only ever the first definition seems to work, Makeobj processes them all, I have checked that. Might be a bug or omission in the Simutrans version that  I am using. But I can show a preview with one music smoking tile.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on December 12, 2022, 07:59:59 PM
Coming soon to a magnatrack near you, wormhole tunnels with advanced zip-squeeze technology!

Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on December 16, 2022, 04:59:13 PM
Added a first curiosity item, a new tree of sorts, and I gave the fluffy bushes a light shadow. Also there is a powertrail bridge now ... actually not really, it's just floating trails. Furthermore the grey gaps in the main menu are filled with matching graphics now (Thanks for the info how to do that Andarix!).

Playable preview #4.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: prissi on December 20, 2022, 11:38:03 AM
The blended colors look really nice together with the whole darkish environment. And it is amazing that simutrans 16 graphics can generate such a shine.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on December 21, 2022, 01:07:27 PM
Thank you  :) The limitation of 16 bit graphics only shows on very slight color gradients. And the dark ground really helps to make bright objects stand out a lot.

But to be honest, the set also benefits hugely from the new transparency support. I try to use it scarsely, in order not to impact performance too much, but some of the objects would look much less interesting without the semi-transparent parts.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on December 23, 2022, 03:18:11 PM
Closing to finally become a real pak set. 5 more magnatrack vehicles this time, and a lot of cleanups.

- Two new magnatrack vehicles for sparks and quants (passengers and mail)
- Three new magnatrack engines
- Fixed some lightmap (landscape) gaps
- Fixed ground grid
- Crystal splinter plants have shadows now
- Added one more residential city building
- New, high res inspection tool cursor
- New, high res schedule stop marker
- New, high res raise and lower landscape cursors
- Added some missing language entries (English and German)

Playable preview #5 attached.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on December 30, 2022, 03:42:28 PM
A new, high speed magnatrack, a new power-speedlane, a new bridge, a new tree, two new residential buildings and some cleanup.

Playable preview #6 attached.

Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: Yona-TYT on December 30, 2022, 11:04:40 PM
Quote from: _Hajo_ on December 30, 2022, 03:42:28 PMA new, high speed magnatrack, a new power-speedlane, a new bridge, a new tree, two new residential buildings and some cleanup.
Playable preview #6 attached.
Simply beautiful ! ... 8)
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: isidoro on December 31, 2022, 01:17:36 AM
Certainly, though it is a pity that the station labels can't be modded as well...
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on January 01, 2023, 04:17:18 PM
I think it would be fairly easy to allow themes to include custom backgrounds for the labels. Much like a theme can define buttons and window backgrounds.

Question is if rather the theme or the pak set should supply the graphics. I think theme is the better place.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: Andarix on January 01, 2023, 04:44:19 PM
Quote from: _Hajo_ on January 01, 2023, 04:17:18 PM...

Question is if rather the theme or the pak set should supply the graphics. I think theme is the better place.

Since a theme is always active, the files from the theme always apply.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: isidoro on January 02, 2023, 03:09:37 AM
But, shouldn't then the theme adapt to the pak-set?  Let's put an example: main simutrans used to have a hand-written pak set.  Shouldn't the labels be handwritten in that case and only in that case?

For pak64, a neat font with a square opaque rectangle may be suitable, but for a pak set as detailed as this one (with shiny parts, transparency, smooth object borders, etc.), it just doesn't "fit", imho.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: Yona-TYT on January 02, 2023, 04:00:42 AM
Quote from: isidoro on January 02, 2023, 03:09:37 AMBut, shouldn't then the theme adapt to the pak-set?  Let's put an example: main simutrans used to have a hand-written pak set.  Shouldn't the labels be handwritten in that case and only in that case?

For pak64, a neat font with a square opaque rectangle may be suitable, but for a pak set as detailed as this one (with shiny parts, transparency, smooth object borders, etc.), it just doesn't "fit", imho.

It would be nice, but I don't think anyone would dare to do this, I think it is limited by the player color and a fonts, well I guess it would have to be a default for each pakset.


However, I recently made a patch that adds a default theme gui for paksets, but I don't think it received (at least for the moment) the attention I expected.
https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/topic,22162.msg202690/topicseen.html#msg202690  :-[
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: Andarix on January 02, 2023, 08:50:03 AM
Quote from: Yona-TYT on January 02, 2023, 04:00:42 AM...
However, I recently made a patch that adds a default theme gui for paksets, but I don't think it received (at least for the moment) the attention I expected.
https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/topic,22162.msg202690/topicseen.html#msg202690  :-[

At Simutrans you need a lot of patience. The default setting for a theme in the simuconf.tab has been requested for many years.

And there are also some bugs (https://simutrans-germany.com/wiki/wiki/de_simutrans_bugtracker?page_ref_id=1615) that have existed for many years. Simutrans is not the top priority in people's real life.

As long as the development rests on so few shoulders as with Simutrans, it takes a lot of patience to implement wishes.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: Ranran(retired) on January 02, 2023, 01:55:48 PM
I think one of the issus with simutrans UI design is that menus and themes are independent, as I pointed out before.
https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/topic,20813.msg198774.html#msg198774
I made a suggestion in that thread to separate the menu button background and object. The display of assigned keys could also be separated.
The latter tricks players with menu bar icons, even though they can change the key bindings themselves...

Unfortunately simutrans is not flexible in font size (all fonts are the same size).
But it would be nice to have the ability to display the keybindings above the icon when a certain key is pressed.
Today's windows applications often have such functionality.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on January 02, 2023, 04:49:24 PM
Just to summarize some of the messages. A better (even if only prettier) UI feels important to me. I'm willing to work on it.

My C++ skills have become very outdated though (have not done any C++ coding since 10 years or so). So there will be limits to what I can do, and how fast I can do things.

I have started a small list of UI improvements which I want to work on and themed station labels will be the first. I'll watch out for more suggestions.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on January 02, 2023, 06:41:52 PM
Station label discussion and proposal:
https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/topic,22165.0.html

For those looking for the latest download of pak144.Excentrique, please look here:
https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/topic,22076.msg202684.html#msg202684
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on January 06, 2023, 02:11:54 PM
Due to other activities for Simutrans, there were only few additions to the set this week. I've added neon tube style magnatrack signals and two Menger sponges as sights.

Download:
https://github.com/Varkalandar/pak144.Excentrique/releases/tag/v0.07

And for the curious, the wikipedia entry of what a Menger sponge actually is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menger_sponge
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on January 08, 2024, 07:36:28 PM
Now that the work on Simutrans GL isn't so pressing anymore, I had some time to look into this again. Added an automated build workflow, so new "nightly" versions are compiled each time a change is pushed to the repository, and the pak set got a fresh logo all of its own.

https://github.com/Varkalandar/pak144.Excentrique/releases/tag/Nightly

pak144.Excentrique_new_logo.png
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on January 23, 2024, 05:09:13 PM
I've tried to recreate the proto sun from pak48.Excentrique as first of a new industry chain to come. The halo effect works, the ground could use some more detail. Not sure if I just could have bare land there under the sun, I think Simutrans does weird things if industries have fully transparent base tiles.

Edit: I'll add these factories-to-be as tourist attractions for testing purposes until there are goods, vehicles and consumers defined.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: Andarix on January 23, 2024, 05:16:50 PM
you can set needs_ground for non complette ground

wiki - needs_ground (https://simutrans-germany.com/wiki/wiki/en_BuildingsDef#needs_ground)

Then the floor should show through a transparent floor surface.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on January 23, 2024, 07:50:25 PM
Now with ground and crater and more shiny!
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on January 25, 2024, 10:09:29 AM
So, the second industry chain has gotten the second member. The very sparky weather control!
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on January 25, 2024, 09:47:44 PM
And a solar car.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on January 26, 2024, 03:28:04 PM
Empty solar jars aren't so bright.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on January 29, 2024, 08:57:12 PM
I've started to work on a cloud farm. It's harder than expected, but this is what I have right now. I'm not sure if I'll keep the 4 big clouds in the center or place something else there.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on January 30, 2024, 04:09:33 PM
So, I learned a bit more how to make clouds, and I can present the very fluffy cloud farm. Soon to come to a pak set near you!

Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on January 30, 2024, 06:14:17 PM
Clouds must be transported very carefully, so cloud bowls have a top speed of only 30km/h

If my automatic build works, cloud farms and cloud bowls should now be part of the set. I very likely will have to change the costs and transport revenue of the cars as well as the productivity of the cloud far, so this is just a preview.

https://github.com/Varkalandar/pak144.Excentrique/releases/tag/Nightly
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: isidoro on January 31, 2024, 12:05:12 AM
There's an optical effect in the empty cup: it doesn't seem empty but with a kind of metal ball inside...
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on February 01, 2024, 03:35:52 PM
Quote from: isidoro on January 31, 2024, 12:05:12 AMThere's an optical effect in the empty cup: it doesn't seem empty but with a kind of metal ball inside...

I see. I think the combination of reflection and very strong highlight does that. For the time being, I'll keep it this way though.

The news of the day are autonomously driving cloud bowls and solar jars! The first freight vehicles for the power trails. Here, a cloud bowl prototype delivering some cloud cores to the weather mixer.

It is intentional that it is so high above the trail. In this pak set vehicles neither driver on the left, nor right, but one direction uses the lower layer and the other direction the layer above. Collision free driving on one lane in two directions!

Admitted it looks a bit confusing and the changes from and to upper and lower lane are a bit counter-intuitive also ... but at least different from the norm  ;)
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on February 04, 2024, 07:08:13 PM
Say hello to the new lowland bushes and mountain corals!
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: Yona-TYT on February 05, 2024, 01:25:51 AM
Nice  8)
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on February 07, 2024, 03:03:13 PM
Quote from: Yona-TYT on February 05, 2024, 01:25:51 AMNice  8)

Thank you!

Another update, I've been working on a new high speed magnatrack. Still have to balance the costs, also for the two already existing magnatracks. Also it seems I must shift the vehicles a bit to fit better.
Title: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe ... pak144.Excentrique
Post by: _Hajo_ on February 08, 2024, 03:02:20 PM
I've fixed some aligment isues with the new magnatrack and added one more vehicle, the powersnail. A low cost, low maintainence alternative to the faster magntrack engines.

And I've compiled all the changes into a new release:

https://github.com/Varkalandar/pak144.Excentrique/releases/tag/r0.08