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Simutrans Extended => Simutrans Extended Development => Topic started by: Zann on July 31, 2009, 01:25:07 AM

Title: Is experimental to become stable?
Post by: Zann on July 31, 2009, 01:25:07 AM
Is the experimental simutrans to be come the stable simutrans at some time?

Usually the projects I follow, There is a guidelines of what is unstable (experimental) and stable. a roadmap ect.
Title: Re: Is experimental to become stable?
Post by: Dwachs on July 31, 2009, 04:55:16 AM
No, there is Simutrans (the standard version - unexperimental) and Simutrans Experimental. Both exist in parallel, and there are no plans to cease the one for the other.
Title: Re: Is experimental to become stable?
Post by: Fabio on July 31, 2009, 07:12:10 AM
there's just a thing i don't remember: does ST-Exp use the patches and, specially, bugfixes for St-Std (where applicable) or is the development of the two trunks completely separate, now?
i really hope the former.
Title: Re: Is experimental to become stable?
Post by: Spike on July 31, 2009, 07:47:54 AM
Jamespetts merges changed from Simutrans Standard into Experimental now and then - he posted about this a few times. So I assume that at least some fixes from Standard go into Experimental, too.
Title: Re: Is experimental to become stable?
Post by: knightly on July 31, 2009, 07:55:38 AM
Hi Fabio :)

James always merge the latest changes from ST STD before releasing a new version of ST EXP. So you can already take advantage of the recent features and bugfixes from ST STD when downloading the latest ST EXP.

Besides, James told me some time ago that, after the current feature-freeze bug-fix-only phase, he will issue a stable release of ST EXP called ST EXT (IIRC, Simutrans Extended). That is, ST EXT will be the stable branch for players, and ST EXP will be the developmental branch for developers and testers, much like ST STD's nightlies. I am not sure if he has changed his plans, though.


Title: Re: Is experimental to become stable?
Post by: Spike on July 31, 2009, 08:31:21 AM
We should try to keep confusion for players minimal. I'd vote against two names for Simutrans Experimental versions.
Title: Re: Is experimental to become stable?
Post by: jamespetts on July 31, 2009, 10:07:00 AM
The plan is indeed in the long term for Simutrans-Experimental to have a stable version (but it will have its own stable version, rather than replace Simutrans-Standard - Simutrans-Experimental is a fork). However, before we can get to that point, we need to finalise the develoment of a Simutrans-Experimental compatible pakset so that (1) all the features that require a fully compatible pakset can be tested; and (2) the game balanced precisely (both in the code and in the pakset) before a stable version is released. Until then, no major new features are being added to the code that are not merged in from Simutrans-Standard (which is done regularly as Knightly observed), and revisions of the code are limited to: (1) fixing bugs; (2) optimising; (3) minor enhancements to the UI; and (4) improving the game balance (hence the recent re-scaling feature).

When a stable version is released, the aim is to have a complete automated installer package with the binaries, information on how to get the source code (it is on Github), and at least one fully compatible pakset all included. This would be an .exe installer for Windows and a .deb / .rpm installer for Linux. Hopefully, there will be a Macintosh .app installer, too.

As to the name, "Experimental" is not fitting for a stable version, so, while I understand what Hajo says about confusion, I think that greater confusion would obtain in the long-term if stable software were named "Experimental". I really do not want users put off by thinking that the software is not a stable version. The plan is for "Simutrans-Extended" to be the name of the stable version, and for any major new features to go into a sub-branch "Simutrans-Experimental", which, when that is stable, will then be merged into Simutrans-Extended, which will then be the stable branch.

That process is some way in the future yet, however, as work still needs to be done on producing the fully compatible pakset, which might take some time (I am adapting the open-source Pak128.Britain to make a Simutrans-Experimental branch of it: see here ( for details - volunteers to assist would be greatly appreciated, as the process would be hastened).