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PakSets and Customization => Pak128.Britain => Topic started by: The Hood on August 18, 2009, 10:08:39 AM

Title: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on August 18, 2009, 10:08:39 AM
Following the release of pak128.Britain 1.x, which is now fully stand-alone and not dependent on pak128 objects, it's now time to concentrate on expanding the graphics and range of features supported by pak128.Britain.  The following list is where I think we are going, in a rough order of priority.  I'd be interested in other people's thoughts though (especially those who have time to play the set!).  I would also really appreciate it other people wanted to help contribute some of the graphics to the effort, so please let me know if you want to help with this!

- trucks / road freight vehicles (done) :)
- pedestrians (done - modified pak128 images) :)
- snow graphics (done) :)
- maglevs (done - thanks AEO!) :)
- narrow gauge railways (done - thanks jamespetts!)  :)
- citycars (done) :)
- ships, canal barges, and other water transport (done - maybe add larger CalMac ferries and ocean liners)  :)
- additional bridges (done) :)
- aeroplanes (work in progress - Milko)
- different industry graphics for different eras (done) :) 
- underground trains(done) :)
- more attractions (some done by wlindley and Archon, more variety still needed)
- headquarters (some courtesy of wlindley, others welcome)
- more citybuildings (some done by wlindley, Archon and myself, more variety still needed)
- more trees
- monorails
- futuristic vehicles for all modes

Obviously I'm not promising any of this, and certainly not any completion dates.  But if you want to make these in pak128.Britain style, I will include them in future releases!
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: kierongreen on August 18, 2009, 04:40:34 PM
Well I'm just playing a game at the moment. One obvious thing that I know that when I come to it I will make is faster rail bridges. But since I'm in 1834 at the moment I don't think that'll be a problem for a while (map might be a bit insane by then though - started in 1820 and I'm already making well over a million a month in profit...). I'd also like to do the undergrounds at some point. At the moment I'm just enjoying playing it though :)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on August 18, 2009, 05:03:34 PM
I'll provisionally reserve you for those then :)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on August 18, 2009, 09:05:56 PM
Might I suggest that city cars, pedestrians and headquarters be added to the list?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on August 18, 2009, 09:07:39 PM
Yes :)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: ӔO on January 03, 2010, 03:05:46 PM
I've thought up of some attractions that might be good for pakbritain.
In no particular order...
Velodrome, observatory, museum, planetarium, race circuit (BTCC tracks), theater and opera house.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on January 03, 2010, 09:02:32 PM
All good ideas, are you volunteering to paint them as well?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: ӔO on January 04, 2010, 10:28:01 AM
All good ideas, are you volunteering to paint them as well?
Yes, that's the plan.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on January 04, 2010, 02:45:44 PM
Other good attractions would be churches and cathedrals, law courts of various sizes, municipal swimming baths, libraries and hospitals.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on January 04, 2010, 04:54:01 PM
Yes, that's the plan.

Excellent.  Can I just ask that you also do snow images too?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: ӔO on January 04, 2010, 06:59:41 PM
sure, that doesn't seem so hard as long as there are proper textures.

also, how about a sports dome that has a closing roof for winter?
I'm not sure if you have one of those in the UK.

Other good attractions would be churches and cathedrals, law courts of various sizes, municipal swimming baths, libraries and hospitals.

those sound great. I now see what is meant by a never ending to-do list  ;D
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on January 04, 2010, 10:54:15 PM
also, how about a sports dome that has a closing roof for winter?
I'm not sure if you have one of those in the UK.

The millenium stadium in Cardiff, the Emirates (Aresnal), and now of course, Centre Court at Wimbledon all immediately spring to mind, but these are all new.  I think the roof tends to just close for matches only though.

Quote
those sound great. I now see what is meant by a never ending to-do list  ;D

Welcome to my world... ;D
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: rsdworker on January 04, 2010, 10:59:03 PM
The millenium stadium in Cardiff, the Emirates (Aresnal), and now of course, Centre Court at Wimbledon all immediately spring to mind, but these are all new.  I think the roof tends to just close for matches only though.

Welcome to my world... ;D
and also wembley staduim is New too - i am not sure if its has closing roof
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on January 05, 2010, 09:06:52 AM
It has a roof which partially closes - but at it's full extent only gives complete cover to the stands and not the pitch.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: AP on January 11, 2010, 03:40:18 PM
The velodrome thread has reminded me of something.

When we get around to adding air transport, maybe instead of a generic "airport", we could have aerodromes, air fields, air ports (for 'flying boats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_boat#Between_the_wars)'), etc. Maybe something for airships, even ...  there was quite a lot of variety in the early "Imperial Airways" days.

Thought I'd post it here for lack of anywhere else.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on January 11, 2010, 03:48:58 PM
There's a bit of a game code issue here - we can only do things which the game engine supports, which is runways + taxiways + aprons + terminal buildings.  The graphics already exist for these, with both grass and concrete runways and taxiways (that should allow airfields).  How are aerodromes different from standard airports?  Flying boats wouldn't be possible without a re-write of the code.  Airships are possible, but they would behave like normal planes and use the runways in the same way.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: AP on January 11, 2010, 03:55:42 PM
'Aerodrome' is just terminology- the earlier term for airports (e.g. Croydon Aerodrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croydon_Airport) was the 'airport' for London 1920-1946).

I recall being told that, before airports were coded in simutrans, there were 'aircraft' that were actually ships, but painted to be 'at altitude' as a way around the code - clearly the thing with flying boat routes is that they were (often, but not always) over water (hard to emergency land a flying boat otherwise). Maybe the trick could be reused?

Airships (http://www.aht.ndirect.co.uk/airships/imperial/index.html) and runways; well, it wouldn't be the end of the world I suppose.

Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: Reddog785 on May 06, 2010, 07:54:58 PM
For narrowgauge trains, here's my ideas:
Talyllyn Railway Saddle Tank (Intro: 1864 Retirement: 1950)
Talyllyn Railway No.7 "Tom Rolt" (Intro: 1998)
Talyllyn Coach (Intro: 1864)
Talyllyn Modern Coach (Intro: 1955)
Talyllyn Post Office (Intro: 1864)
Ffestiniog Coal Truck (Intro: 1832)
Horses (Intro: 1832 Retirement: 1863)
Ffestiniog Railway No.1 "Princess" (Intro: 1863)
Ffestiniog Railway No.2 "Prince" (Intro: 1864)
Ffestiniog "Flying Bench" (Intro: 1863)
Ffestiniog Early First Class "Observation Carriage" (Intro: 1863)
Ffestiniog Early Bug Box (Intro: 1863 Retirement: 1870)
Ffestiniog Late Bug Box (Intro: 1870 Retirement: 1901)
Ffestiniog WW1 diesel "Moelwyn" (Intro: 1917)
Ffestiniog Double Fairlie (Intro: 1870)
Victorian Carriage (Intro: 1870 Retirement: 1901)
Edwardian Carriage (Intro: 1901)
Third Class Semi Open Carriage 37 (Intro: 1910 Retirement: 1930)
Third Class Semi Open Carriage 38 (Intro: 1930)
Third Class 122 (Intro: 2000)
WHR "Garratt" (Intro: 2009)
Ffestiniog First Class Observation Carriage 111 (Intro: 1995)
Criccieth Castle (Intro: 1995)
Welsh Highland Carriage (Intro: 1877)
WHR First Class Pullman Corridor (Intro: 2009)
WHR First Class Pullman Observation (Intro: 2009)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on May 08, 2010, 02:14:21 PM
Reddog,

thank you for the suggestions. Pak128.Britain does not currently have any narrow gauge infrastructure: vehicles, depots, tracks, stations, bridges, tunnels or crossings. I think that narrow gauge is on the to-do list somewhere, but it's fairly low down. Do you have any interest in doing the graphics (which is easier than it looks at first)?

One thing to note is that a great many of the more recent vehicles on your list (especially the 21st century built steam locomotives) are only commercially viable in reality because of the use of the narrow gauge railway on which they run as a tourist attraction. That aspect of economics is not simulated in Simutrans, so we have to make sure that only vehicles that are viable for use on a purely functional transport system are included.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: Reddog785 on May 08, 2010, 04:14:01 PM
Since recently going on some narrow gauge railways in Wales, I'll hapilly do some with great interest. I was thinking of doing the green double fairlie "Earl of Merioneth" for now. But, I have two questions:
1.What's a linebreak?
2.How do I draw the vehicle sprites?
Title: Line breaks (was: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list)
Post by: jamespetts on May 08, 2010, 04:27:59 PM
Reddog,

see here (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=2401.0) for information on contributing graphics to Pak128.Britain. As to your first question - in what context do you ask? A line break normally simply means a break between lines of ASCII text as in:

^^ That was a line break.

But please note that nobody will be able to use your narrow gauge vehicles until somebody draws narrow gauge tracks, narrow gauge depots, narrow gauge stations, narrow gauge bridges, narrow gauge tunnels and narrow gauge crossings.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on May 09, 2010, 11:50:02 AM
Firstly, why the in-depth discussion about line breaks?

Secondly, back on-topic, narrow gauge is on the to-do list, but try doing it yourself if you want.  Definitely start by doing tracks and depots though (maybe modify the existing tracks by editing them to make them narrower in a pixel editor?) before doing vehicles. 
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: VS on May 09, 2010, 12:03:47 PM
Sorry for the confusion. Line break discussion has been split to http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=5069.0

Merge it back or move to where you think it belongs - that's up to you :)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: wlindley on May 14, 2010, 01:45:29 PM
I would also suggest for the list: a few more ground objects (ponds, swamps, rocks).  Streetlamps (pak192.comic has them) -- gas and then electric.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on May 14, 2010, 01:49:32 PM
I'm not sure that there are many swamps in the UK...
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on May 14, 2010, 02:09:28 PM
I'd love to have the time to even be able to make progress on the current list!  Volunteers to draw things are still (as ever) welcome!
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on May 14, 2010, 02:19:24 PM
I've started work on a high level office building from the 1920s, but I haven't done many buildings before, and I have a lot of code work to do for Experimental, so it's slow progress...
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on May 14, 2010, 02:48:15 PM
I'll look forward to it when it comes.  I find 1x1 buildings the easiest things to draw as (a) you only need 4 rotations and (b) you don't need to worry about alignment as with vehicles.  Ships are a pain because they are big and need detail as well as 8 rotations and alignment correctly, but they're coming on very slowly...
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on May 14, 2010, 02:53:59 PM
Buildings do need snow textures, however, on the subject of which, they are not in the general Pak128.Britain texture download .zip - are they available somewhere...?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on May 14, 2010, 03:55:04 PM
No.  I generally add another 2 "clouds" textures to any surface requiring snow, of differing shades of white/pale grey.  Trial and error mostly to see what looks best.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on May 14, 2010, 04:55:55 PM
Ahh -  you use a non-image texture?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on May 14, 2010, 05:31:49 PM
yes, one of the blender defaults.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on May 14, 2010, 05:39:49 PM
Aha - thank you for the indication! That makes things easier.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: neroden on May 14, 2010, 06:58:45 PM
I'm not sure that there are many swamps in the UK...

The fens of Yorkshire?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on May 14, 2010, 07:19:25 PM
Those are fens, not swamps...
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on May 14, 2010, 07:28:31 PM
Last time I checked the fens were in Norfolk/Cambridgeshire - I'll check again when I'm over there tomorrow ;)

either way I don't think they'd look great on a single tile.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: wlindley on May 15, 2010, 01:29:36 PM
How about adding player color placards on the various depots... I have already done this on the coach stable and a few of the others.

(http://blog.wlindley.com/images/coach-stable.png)

(http://blog.wlindley.com/images/depots.png)

updated pngs here (http://blog.wlindley.com/images/depots.zip)

Question: For some depots, as the shipyard, flags would be appropriate; which direction does the wind blow?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on May 15, 2010, 01:37:37 PM
That's very nice - I like that! That would be good for headquarters, too, only we don't have headquarters yet... ;-)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: AP on May 15, 2010, 01:50:39 PM
Question: For some depots, as the shipyard, flags would be appropriate; which direction does the wind blow?

Prevailing wind in the UK is from the south-west.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: sanna on May 15, 2010, 03:04:08 PM
How about adding player color placards on the various depots... I have already done this on the coach stable and a few of the others.
This looks absolutely wonderful! Hope to see it officially included!

That's very nice - I like that! That would be good for headquarters, too, only we don't have headquarters yet... ;-)
Do headquarters have a timeline in Simutrans?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: VS on May 15, 2010, 03:59:10 PM
Not timeline, but rather company-size-line...
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: wlindley on May 15, 2010, 04:02:21 PM
Just for starters I used a variation of the stone station building that Kieron drew, but which is not currently used, for a headquarters building with company-color flag.  zipfile with gimp source, dat, png, and compiled pak (http://blog.wlindley.com/images/hq.zip)

(http://blog.wlindley.com/images/hqs.png)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on May 15, 2010, 04:15:55 PM
Ahh, very nice! Might I suggest that the level be set to something > 0? I was rather hoping to make some rickety wooden shed for the very lowest level of headquarters - I think that Pak128.Britain could do with a smattering of wry humour ;-)

Edit: Of course, if you feel like making a rickety wooden shed, I'm not stopping you, either ;-)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: sdog on May 15, 2010, 05:27:22 PM
wry humour is something you should definitely add to pak britain to great extent. that is, i was told, the only reason you can survive the food you get served over there.


(i still have to find out how the yanks can survive their food and american humour. */me prepared to get slapped with a red herring*)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: wlindley on May 16, 2010, 12:52:53 PM
Right, then; one little shack, some broken-down carts, and a pile of track, for HQ level 0.  Large building now at HQ level 2; there is an intermediate as well, but I cannot suss how to upgrade headquarters (nor does searching here or Google give any answers).

(http://blog.wlindley.com/images/hq0.png)

Updated pak in zipfile (http://blog.wlindley.com/images/hq.zip)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on May 16, 2010, 01:38:36 PM
WLindley,

I love it! Genius! As to your existing HQ, however, there is a GUI problem - for some reason, it shows up as a button in the railway tools menu, only there isn't a button graphic, so it all goes a bit peculiar.

Headquarters are built and upgraded in the finance window, incidentally.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: wlindley on May 16, 2010, 02:16:03 PM
Updated pakfile should correct spurious button. 
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: VS on May 16, 2010, 02:59:29 PM
There is one important thing to keep in mind. Just like town halls, all levels should have the same size, or it breaks. Just saying... since you might later want to have more epic levels spanning multiple tiles. Current version seems to be 1x1.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on May 16, 2010, 03:10:28 PM
Ahh, VS has a good point - it'd be good to have 2x2 headquarters buildings in future. Perhaps the existing ones can be updated to have some grounds surrounding them...?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on May 16, 2010, 04:10:01 PM
Nice work.  2x2 should be the standard headquarter size, so please add grounds to the existing ones.  Snow images for each would be great as well.

With the depots, I'm not sure how easy it would be for you Wlindley, but maybe you could replace the current guttering (and the door colours on the modern depots) with player colours?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: neroden on May 16, 2010, 06:10:57 PM
Nice work.  2x2 should be the standard headquarter size, so please add grounds to the existing ones.  Snow images for each would be great as well.

I like the idea of significantly more broken-down vehicles and loose bits of track filling the 2x2.  A pile of paving gravel and loose planks wouldn't go amiss either.  :)  Initial HQ doubles as equipment yard -- very realistic ;)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jonasbb on May 16, 2010, 07:10:09 PM
Why is it a problem if the first hq has 1x1 and the second 2x2?
You could place the second one to a different place where it fit.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: VS on May 16, 2010, 07:27:26 PM
Unfortunately that's not how it works :(
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: Dwachs on May 17, 2010, 11:00:00 AM
Unfortunately that's not how it works :(
hm? That should be the way it works! I tested it some minutes ago.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: VS on May 17, 2010, 01:09:42 PM
Huh. Apparently that changed, then... sorry. Last I remembered, HQs were upgraded in place, not built anew each time.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on May 17, 2010, 01:54:30 PM
In which case, the 1x1 graphics above are fine.  Larger 2x2 or even 3x3 HQs for future years would be nice at some stage.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on May 17, 2010, 02:24:30 PM
Should the early headquarters graphic really have railway equipment strewn about it? A player might, after all, want to build a headquarters in 1760 or so...
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: wlindley on May 18, 2010, 01:51:24 PM
James - I have drawn a headquarters without track, but apparently HQ do not respect the start and end years?  That would be awfully convenient.

Meantime I have added company flags to the various bus and truck stations... although I suppose I should figure out how to do this from the Blender models instead of just pixel-editing?

(http://blog.wlindley.com/images/stations.png)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: vilvoh on May 18, 2010, 02:06:16 PM
Those road depots look great!  :)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on May 18, 2010, 02:10:18 PM
Wlindley,

I don't think flags on the stations look right somehow - none of my local stations or bus stops have flags like this.  They look great on headquarters though, so let's just keep them for identifying HQs.  I also think it's fine how you've done them so far with pixel editing - company colours are hard to do in blender.

Some of the bus stations already have company colour bus stop signs, so maybe if you wanted to make the other stations into company colours it would be best to try and make some of the details company coloured rather than adding flags.  So things like the canopy on the over-roof of the railway station, or the colour of the signs, fences, guttering and doors, that sort of thing.

Having said that though, once you start adding company colours, do you then add company colours to vehicles as well?  Pak128.Britain has gone down the "original colours" route rather than player colours, with only a handful of sprites with player colours in very subtle places.  Changing everything would be very hard work (but if you want to do a player colour branch of the pak, be my guest!), and having half-and-half would look a little silly I think.  And I'm certainly not keen for either redrawing the existing vehicles or drawing new vehicles myself in player colours - that would be a chore and would take the fun out of it for me.  So I would strongly recommend keeping any player colour additions to the minimum, and very subtle at that.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: sdog on May 18, 2010, 03:48:29 PM
i certainly don't know how british bus stops or loading bays looked like, but i think the flags wlindley added are very convenient. If they aren't completely unthinkable for an englishman to use, you could think about using them for the stops displayed above. afterall it's the players transport company, and we can handwavingly argue the player decided to hang up the flags as a cheap way to make them identifiable. At least the factory yards

Don't forget we will soon have multiplayer network games.

It would also very usefull to have some more player colour on the depots, they are often hard to find, when towns grow around them, even a little bit of colour will stick out. The sign on the depot's side will be obstructed, perhaps also a player coloured sign above the entrance?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on May 18, 2010, 09:21:26 PM
I tend to agree with The Hood about the flags - whilst they look excellent on headquarters, they do look a touch out of place on 'bus stops. The sign on the depot is good, however.

As The Hood pointed out, doing all the vehicles would be an enormous task, and would probably require a branch, since there are some people who prefer historical liveries.

As to stations - I agree with The Hood about the sorts of details that it makes sense to player-colourise: benches, lamp-posts, stations signs and canopies (and the other things that The Hood suggested). In particular, the bright red coloured lamp-posts and benches of the most modern type of railway station would benefit from being made player colour, I think (so that we're not forever stuck in the South East of England in the 1980s and early 1990s...). Some of the 'bus stops are already given player colours for their road facing signs; the 'bus stations and loading bays should probably have a similar approach to the depots.

I don't think that putting player colours on depots and stations necessarily means that player colours must go on vehicles, too; indeed, there is something to say that, for buildings, player colours are only really needed on depots and headquarters, since stations have coloured name tags in any event. However, the modern stations would look a lot better with variable colour lamp-posts...
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on May 19, 2010, 10:15:45 PM
Looks like Dwachs has released a patch to allow HQ timelines - would be good to take advantage of this (so different types of clutter strewn around the wood hut depending on era, for example).
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on May 19, 2010, 10:53:30 PM
Very nice! And different architectural styles, perhaps.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on May 31, 2010, 06:07:14 PM
I've added HQs to SVN (with a couple of minor modifications including adding player colours to doors).  It would be great to have snow image equivalents too, and any other HQs of different sizes and eras.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: wlindley on June 04, 2010, 02:30:29 PM
TheHood: If you could email me the updated HQ png with the player-color doors, I have a couple other additions for that. (Would be nice if we had private msgs turned back on sometime.)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on June 04, 2010, 02:46:02 PM
@wlindley
1) I'm at work now but you can get the images off SVN anyway
2) You can request PMs here: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=4996
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: prissi on June 07, 2010, 09:01:38 AM
Maybe a little late, but headquarter do not need to have the same size. You would just have to move headquarter, if new one has larger size. AI does this too.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: nitromefan on July 11, 2010, 11:16:27 AM
Wlindley,

I don't think flags on the stations look right somehow - none of my local stations or bus stops have flags like this.  They look great on headquarters though, so let's just keep them for identifying HQs.  I also think it's fine how you've done them so far with pixel editing - company colours are hard to do in blender.

Some of the bus stations already have company colour bus stop signs, so maybe if you wanted to make the other stations into company colours it would be best to try and make some of the details company coloured rather than adding flags.  So things like the canopy on the over-roof of the railway station, or the colour of the signs, fences, guttering and doors, that sort of thing.

Having said that though, once you start adding company colours, do you then add company colours to vehicles as well?  Pak128.Britain has gone down the "original colours" route rather than player colours, with only a handful of sprites with player colours in very subtle places.  Changing everything would be very hard work (but if you want to do a player colour branch of the pak, be my guest!), and having half-and-half would look a little silly I think.  And I'm certainly not keen for either redrawing the existing vehicles or drawing new vehicles myself in player colours - that would be a chore and would take the fun out of it for me.  So I would strongly recommend keeping any player colour additions to the minimum, and very subtle at that.

Well I'd have to agree with you but it is a good idea to have something like flags for company identity but there should be something for company identity. E.g  Have a little rectangle on a pole with the company's colour.

In Brisbane some stations have company signs some don't.

This one doesn't
(http://www.quadrapacific.com.au/gallery/central.JPG)


but this one does

(http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/ffximage/2008/11/13/Windsor_Rail_Station_general_shot_wideweb__470x332,0.jpg)

( See the symbol on the sign. That's the symbol for translink , the transport company is Brisbane.

Well try to make a rectangle on a pole with the company's colour on it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How about making a small sign like the one on this photo Wlindley.

(Sorry the photo tool wont work so i have put a link below instead.)  :-[

files.simutrans.us/image/show/VVsyI-yfAw/untitled-366.jpg
 
;D






Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on January 22, 2012, 11:58:31 PM
Might I suggest that the following be added to the list?

  • Ground objects
  • Left handed signals
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: wlindley on June 04, 2012, 01:27:54 AM
A discussion thread, "Industrial stations & extensions (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=9984.msg95127;topicseen#new)" in Pak128 demonstrates how industries can have "holes" into which the player may insert railroad tracks or other ways.  Here, the industry tiles are laid out in a "U" shape with an overhead crane that spans a gap where the player's tracks go:

(http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9984.0;attach=18744;image)

That might be an interesting way of coding some future Britain industries?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on June 04, 2012, 09:33:26 AM
Interesting. We do need some graphics for modern versions of some of the industries, such as coal mines, coal power stations, steel mills, iron ore mines, etc.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: VS on June 04, 2012, 11:35:37 AM
For reference - it seems that the only requirements are:
1) All corners used
2) All shapes reachable by rotation exist
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on August 29, 2012, 01:22:39 PM
I've just updated the first post to reflect current status.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: Jersern :) on March 23, 2013, 04:18:23 AM
I was hoping for the DVT (driving van trailer) for the Class 90 (Intercity 225) trains as they're currently broken in the 1.13 release. You can not use the 225 at full speed (with Mk 4 cars). Is there some other way to run them at the full speed? Thanks! :)
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: kierongreen on March 24, 2013, 09:52:12 AM
You should be able to copy the DVT file over from a previous release I would have thought.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on March 31, 2013, 12:24:46 PM
Hmm - I notice that monorails are on the list. Did we ever have a significant number of monorails? I really can't think of any outside garden festivals and the like. Would we be better off re-using the monorail slot for some other rail based system, such as broad gauge (perhaps with modern vehicles based on Irish practice - they do have a broader gauge over there), or even a different sort of narrow gauge - perhaps the Manx 3ft gauge to complement our Welsh 2ft gauge?

Edit: I still suggest that we add ground objects and left-handed signals to the list.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: Vera on March 31, 2013, 02:15:50 PM
Monorails have never been a big thing here. There were monorails built in the early nineteenth century built on Henry Palmer's design - this being a single rail of wood with an iron strip spiked on top to provide a running surface, with the whole thing supported on wooden posts. The vehicles themselves were pannier, attached to a frame with grooved wheels and were propelled by either men or horses.

Two built; one at Deptford Dockyard and a short line at a quarry in Hertfordshire, the latter for moving stone and passengers. Apparently it has a degree of notability for not only being the first railway in Hertfordshire but the first passenger carrying monorail in the world. There's a great lack of information on them, let alone any other systems. Hardly significant and replaced by railways quite early.

From my observations on them, they're not going to take off as a viable means of public transport in the world, let alone the United Britain. I'd support using the slot for a broad gauge system.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: kierongreen on March 31, 2013, 07:20:51 PM
If we are going for broad gauge you can't go mixing Brunels (7ft) with Irish (5ft and a few inches). Irish gauge isn't really noticeable visibly different from standard gauge. Isle of Man (which by coincidence I am on this weekend!) has no real modern stock, it's all around 100 years old. I'd suggest just not using the slot at all.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on April 13, 2013, 09:32:28 AM
I was intending it as a future vehicles slot (and keeping for compatibility with add-ons from other sets). Narrow gauge - I was envisaging narrow to represent a range of gauges from 15 inches up to Manx 3 ft. Broad gauge - I do intend to add a set at some stage, but I think this would run best (in experimental at least) as a way constraint out of standard gauge - this would allow regauging and dual gauge trains as in real life. Irish 5ft gauge isn't considered as Ireland is not part of Britain, but I suppose no reason why it couldn't be an add-on (again as standard gauge effectively).
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on April 13, 2013, 11:29:20 AM
Hmm - what sort of future vehicles had you in mind? Way constraints are not designed to work as you imagine here, as they are intended to be non-exclusive (e.g., Underground trains can also run above ground, diesel trains can run on any type of electrified track, narrow canal boats can travel on broad canals). For a situation where X type of vehicle can only run on X type of way, and Y type of vehicle can only run on Y type of way, a waytype rather than a way constraint is more appropriate. To try to replicate this using way constraints, all rail vehicles and ways (other than dual gauge ways) would each have to have one of two permissive constraints (broad or narrow) and not only do I doubt that there would be enough slots left after all the slots taken for canals, this would also be confusing to players by the way in which way constraints are represented in the GUI.

Edit: Incidentally, I think that there is a real economic problem with representing different sorts of narrow gauge using the one waytype: there would be no incentive to build the vehicles from the smaller gauges as the larger vehicles, even if they cost more themselves, would always be more cost efficient. The point of narrow gauge is to have greatly reduced construction costs of the railways themselves, which reduction is in proportion to how narrow that the gauge is. The relative reduction in cost over standard gauge would have to be calibrated to a specific gauge. (If one were to balance the costs of the larger vehicles so as to be less cost effective, then they would end up being uneconomic - in any event, the basic economics of narrow gauge would be fundamentally distorted if vehicles from different gauges were allowed to run on a single type of track with a single construction cost).
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: ӔO on July 17, 2013, 08:09:42 AM
I've found some interesting and odd freight rolling stock replica schematics here
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/4-rstock/004-index.htm
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: greenling on July 17, 2013, 04:22:51 PM
Hello AEO
That it very usefull what you fund.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on July 27, 2013, 10:22:31 PM
I should probably just check with those of you that play more than I do what you think the current priorities are. Balancing is a big one for me at the minute, but graphics wise this is what I have (from the first post) as the most pressing ones in a rough order of priority - any other views?

Quote
- aeroplanes (work in progress - Milko)
- different industry graphics for different eras (some done by wlindley, others still needed)
- more attractions (some done by wlindley and Archon, more variety still needed)
- headquarters (some courtesy of wlindley, others welcome)
- more citybuildings (some done by wlindley, Archon and myself, more variety still needed)
- underground trains (tube done, subsurface not)
- more trees
- monorails
- futuristic vehicles for all modes
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on July 28, 2013, 01:07:47 PM
I think that balancing is indeed the greatest priority. After that, I think that era-specific industries and trees are somewhat important.

Also to consider and not on the list are broad tunnel portals, sounds, left handed signals, and possibly building animations/industry smoke - some features which are not currently implemented in Pak128.Britain at all.

We are also a little short on the very latest vehicles of most types, such as the Boeing 787, Airbus A380, the Class 70 diesel locomotive, the class 379 EMUs, the latest Blackpool, Croydon and (I think) Manchester trams, the New 'Bus for London, and the correct livery for the "Javelin" trains (the current graphics were produced before these trains were actually built using a guessed livery so far as I can see).

Edit: One other thing that would be good, for consistency, is interior tunnel graphics for tunnels other than tube tunnels.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: ReeceCitylink on November 23, 2013, 04:15:30 PM
Will you be adding the Siemens class 185 to that list to run on the transpennine services.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on November 23, 2013, 06:35:23 PM
Ahh, that is something worth doing at some point, I think. It's just a matter of priorities, really: 'buses and trams have more gaps in them than rail at present.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: greenling on November 24, 2013, 12:35:37 PM
Hello on All
I have remark that the Airplanes have a very big gap how we must fill.
I must lend out the airplanes out pak128 std that i have a working airtransportservice.
And i have now remark that the Half high code now disturb many do.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: kierongreen on November 24, 2013, 01:07:12 PM
In terms of half heights the remaining graphics to be converted are aqueducts and most road bridges. My progress on this has been slow to say the least.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: greenling on November 24, 2013, 01:27:23 PM
Hello Kierongreen
I will you not shocking but i gives many trouble that will i soon posting.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: wlindley on December 15, 2013, 11:49:02 AM
Gauthier has done quite a nice job on new stations for pak128, with quite a variety of small to large stations.  Would our Britain benefit from some smaller and larger modern stations?  In any case, it is well worth looking at his png and dat files to see how he has done these.
(http://wlindley.com/simutrans/gauthier-stations-in-Britain.png)

Here are the sources : https://mega.co.nz/#!Q9IXBbSI!QIuIbwxPrXyZest8WzaOqDK9SfAa3tb7o3gIKnIFGcI (https://mega.co.nz/#!Q9IXBbSI!QIuIbwxPrXyZest8WzaOqDK9SfAa3tb7o3gIKnIFGcI)
And here is a pak file for who wants to test : https://mega.co.nz/#!c0IXEBwT!T_6OfnE3hRXuOjFTHjC5YRR9axN9sa7UibZVu2sC31s (https://mega.co.nz/#!c0IXEBwT!T_6OfnE3hRXuOjFTHjC5YRR9axN9sa7UibZVu2sC31s)

(First time I use MEGA, hope it works fine ...).

EDIT : I'm likely to update these files in weeks.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on December 15, 2013, 11:59:17 AM
Hmm - those particular stations do not look very British.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: wlindley on December 15, 2013, 12:10:29 PM
No, not at all.  But would we like, for example, something like the bottom one coded instead as Waterloo International, for example?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on December 15, 2013, 12:30:49 PM
What do you mean by "coded as" here?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: kierongreen on December 15, 2013, 05:47:00 PM
I think he means having large overall roofs spanning 4 tracks. I'm against this as I think it complicates the placing of stations considerably.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on December 15, 2013, 05:53:14 PM
Ahh, yes, I see. Kieron does have a point about complicating station placement, I think.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on May 10, 2014, 10:15:49 AM
Now I've released 1.15 that completes two major projects (half heights and new industry graphics). Time to work out what's next. Planes are the obvious incomplete section but Milko and jamespetts are slowly producing more to complete the timeline on that. I've drawn a lot of buildings recently so I'm considering completing the London Underground timeline as a bit of variety before doing more municipal buildings (schools, hospitals etc). Any other ideas?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on May 10, 2014, 10:26:42 AM
Perhaps some more trees? We currently only have two types. We are also a bit short of ocean liners. Further, the railway signals in the pakset are all from the era when left hand signals were not an option, so they are all oriented to the right (this is especially significant for semaphore signals). Signals that would look good when on the left hand side of the track would be most useful.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: Sarlock on May 10, 2014, 04:47:59 PM
I am currently sitting on many different tree designs in Blender that I am working on finishing for pak128 and would be happy to give them to you to port to pak128.Britain when they're done.

I've been playing with the Cycles renderer lately and I am really impressed with it.  The lighting is much nicer.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on May 10, 2014, 06:32:40 PM
@Sarlock, that would be great. I've started tube trains first but that can be the next project.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on May 10, 2014, 06:58:44 PM
The Hood - let me know if you want any assistance with research with some of the early era vehicles - I have a number of books with details. Also, the Metropolitan Railway E class locomotive drawn some time ago by Kieron needs re-scaling, but, sadly, the Blender model is lost, so it may have to be recreated from scratch. I can produce the A-class locomotive in Metropolitan livery if that would help, although if you are producing other Metropolitan livery locomotives, we should co-ordinate livery colours first.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: Junna on May 10, 2014, 08:21:18 PM
Are these the sub-surface line stock that is planned?
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: jamespetts on May 10, 2014, 08:28:01 PM
I think so, as all of the deep level tube vehicles are already done.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: The Hood on May 11, 2014, 07:56:59 AM
Yes - should have made that clearer.


Underground specific discussion continues in the old underground thread: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=2730.100
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: Y5mpF3 on March 22, 2019, 09:33:16 AM
I love the cobblestone buildings, for example the Dairy1750. It would be great, if somebody would complete the set. There could also be more variants of the other 1750 and 1820 buildings.
Title: Re: pak128.Britain - new graphics to-do list
Post by: kierongreen on March 22, 2019, 09:53:56 AM
I love the cobblestone buildings, for example the Dairy1750. It would be great, if somebody would complete the set. There could also be more variants of the other 1750 and 1820 buildings.
I note you’ve already looked in to getting blender models - once you get the hang of it it’s quite easy to edit however does need time - hopefully you might be able to help out there! :)