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PakSets and Customization => Pak128 Add-ons and Graphics => Pak128 => Pak128 Incorporated Add-ons and Graphics => Topic started by: Fabio on September 08, 2009, 09:32:29 AM

Title: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on September 08, 2009, 09:32:29 AM
ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT

Here's the first preview of a project which was growing slowly in my mind (alongside the twin railtracks replacement project).

The plan is the following

- dirt road 30 km/h (all eras, summer+winter)
       road + bridge

- old cityroad 50 km/h (from 18th century to the 40ties)
       road + bridge

- standard cityroad 50 km/h (since the 50ties, public player only)
       road (bridge and tunnel from urban road - consistent in graphics)

- urban road 50 km/h (since the 50ties, for the player)
       road + bridge + tunnel

- slow intercity road 70 km/h (since the 20ties)
       road + bridge

- standard intercity road 90 km/h (since the 50ties)
       road + bridge + tunnel

- highway 110 km/h (since the 60ties)
       road + bridge

- expressway 130 km/h (since the 70ties)
       road + bridge + tunnel

- autobahn 200 km/h (since the 90ties)
       road + bridge

now some screenshots:

old cityroad
(http://i27.tinypic.com/x59sfa.png)click to enlarge (http://i27.tinypic.com/x59sfa.png)

dirt road
(http://i27.tinypic.com/14mb4ud.png)click to enlarge (http://i27.tinypic.com/14mb4ud.png)

highways (left to right: 90 km/h, 110 km/h, 130 km/h, 200 km/h)
(http://i31.tinypic.com/1z6qcyu.png)click to enlarge (http://i31.tinypic.com/1z6qcyu.png)

dual carriage way
(http://i31.tinypic.com/vgkcbl.png)click to enlarge (http://i31.tinypic.com/vgkcbl.png)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on September 08, 2009, 01:03:10 PM
:o That looks really great!

Any chance of producing straight-diagonal corners (instead of curves)-- at least source graphics (which implies maybe releasing sources for editing - I'd also make a yellow-stripe version variant)?

This a really really nice looking :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Ashley on September 08, 2009, 01:14:01 PM
Very nice looking indeed. I would like to combine these with the elevated highway graphics I have, would you be interested fabio?
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on September 08, 2009, 01:14:32 PM
(please oh please? :D )
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Krisztian on September 08, 2009, 01:26:56 PM
it would be solvable that concerning the lane bending onto the left and right if the road is with 1 direction that let it be possible to label it with arrows?
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on September 08, 2009, 01:33:56 PM
thank you all!

Any chance of producing straight-diagonal corners (instead of curves)
this has been already done! :)
more screenshots will follow ;)

I'd also make a yellow-stripe version variant)?
sure! i think consistency is a must, so i think to release a euro-looking set (VS, can it become the official one?)
Isaac, you could for sure make an American version, which in my opinion could be a replacement pak. Players IMHO could download the American set to replace the standard European one.

Very nice looking indeed. I would like to combine these with the elevated highway graphics I have, would you be interested fabio?
extremely interested :)
do you have any source to share?
ATM, i was planning elevated highways for 130 km/h and maybe 110 km/h.
I would replace the pavement, though, to make it consistent.



I forgot to credit:
- Raven for the bare pavement texture and the "new jersey" barriers for 200 km/h
- Kieron Green (The Hood or whoever is the Artist) for Pak128.Britain sidewalk, used for old city road
- the Authors of the existing Pak128 roads, especially MIP for the texture of dirty road.



it would be solvable that concerning the lane bending onto the left and right if the road is with 1 direction that let it be possible to label it with arrows?
i considered it, unfortunately the game can't tell which direction the carriageway is used for...
so no arrows without code changing :(
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Zeno on September 08, 2009, 02:03:21 PM
Oh, fabio strikes back!
Nice screenshots there, I'm looking forward more of them!!

Btw, I also like the planning :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Ashley on September 08, 2009, 02:39:41 PM
extremely interested :)
do you have any source to share?
ATM, i was planning elevated highways for 130 km/h and maybe 110 km/h.
I would replace the pavement, though, to make it consistent.

I'll have to take a look at the sources when I get home tonight, IIRC it was about 80% finished before, so I'll probably need to do a little work to complete it. Will reply again when I've had a look :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Maragil on September 08, 2009, 04:00:49 PM
Nice - I'd really look forward to this being released - the current road tunnel is so slow, so I've had to combine 128.Britain with 128.

(Actually, all our tunnels are slow)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Combuijs on September 08, 2009, 05:01:28 PM
Quote
(Actually, all our tunnels are slow)

Which is true to life, as you rarely can drive very fast underground for safety reasons.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on September 08, 2009, 05:11:49 PM
Which is true to life, as you rarely can drive very fast underground for safety reasons.

this will be also in this set. for the sake of realistic safety limits:
200 km/h roads will need to use 130 km/h tunnels (max speed for tunnels in game)
110 km/h roads will need to use 90 km/h tunnels
70 km/h roads will need to use 50 km/h tunnels
(I see 110 km/h roads as upgrades of 90 km/h ones and 200 km/h roads need a speed limit in tunnels, so it is also in Germany, where limitless autobahn have limits in roughly 50% of extension. Similarily, elevated expressways will be only for 130 km/h and 110 km/h, but NOT for 200 km/h, as they are intended for crossing heavily urbanised areas or for bridges with one or more curves. If possible i'd also exclude curves and junctions from 200 km/h ;))
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: VS on September 08, 2009, 05:48:09 PM
I am shocked - and extremely pleased! Apart from the few graphic bugs I can see in the dirt road, it all looks ready to roll :D The careful planning also helps a lot.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Ashley on September 08, 2009, 05:56:24 PM
I have checked the source images, they're less complete than I had thought, still possible to finish though I think given time. :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: VS on September 08, 2009, 05:58:00 PM
What do you have - did you lose anything? I got some pieces here...
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: micslu on September 08, 2009, 09:47:39 PM
Nice roads!

Will the fences on 110 km + highway roads prevent "city-road-ification"?
That will greatly reduce my rail use along autobahns  ;).
(Though I understand this problem is much more fundamental.)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Krisztian on September 08, 2009, 09:53:37 PM
when will he be finish?
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Combuijs on September 08, 2009, 09:54:34 PM
Quote
Will the fences on 110 km + highway roads prevent "city-road-ification"?

No, because it still is a road.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on September 08, 2009, 09:54:37 PM
Will the fences on 110 km + highway roads prevent "city-road-ification"?

Unfortunately, it's just graphics. And extension requests to allow for immutable roads were denied multiple times. D:.

when will he be finish?

He will be finish when he is finish. Please do not ask this question. :)

No, because it still is a road.

THREE SECONDS D:

;-)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on September 09, 2009, 07:12:05 AM
Will the fences on 110 km + highway roads prevent "city-road-ification"?
That will greatly reduce my rail use along autobahns  ;).
Unfortunately, it's just graphics. And extension requests to allow for immutable roads were denied multiple times. D:.
No, because it still is a road.

Well, Elevated tracks (rather expensive) will be provided for 110 km/h and 130 km/h speed. those cannot be "city-road-ificated", IIRC, so they can be a solution for crossing urban areas: go on viaducts! (they will have the same look, only on viaduct... :D)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on September 09, 2009, 12:33:07 PM
true... And in fact, you can lay road under them so that no buildings appear under them (and for local traffic) :D
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: The Hood on September 09, 2009, 02:52:51 PM
- The Hood (or whoever is the Artist) for Pak128.Britain sidewalk, used for old city road

Actually Kieron Green for that one I think.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on September 09, 2009, 03:09:41 PM
Actually Kieron Green for that one I think.

Thanks, I will credit him! ;D
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: micslu on September 10, 2009, 08:37:06 PM
Oh well, wishful thinking regarding "non-city-road-ification" of high speed roads.  :-[

However, I'd like to add that this problem, sorry let's rather call it a special feature, along with massive overcrowding,
has turned from frustration to fun challenge.
On a very personal level, it is very satisfying when an autobahn network with lots of bridges and mounds gets completed.
The only complaint is having to use unsightly rail and road stubs. (I know about "fence" but only tested.)

Anyways, thanks Fabio, for the new roads. Looking forward to them.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: IgorEliezer on September 11, 2009, 02:22:35 AM
Speaking of urban planning:

A urban road network can be (and should be) organized in 4 layers: local, collector, arterial and express ways. This is called Hierarchy of roads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierarchy_of_roads). For instance, a local lane will never cross or have junctions with an express lane for several obvious reasons.

An express way becoming a "normal" road doesn't make any sense, considering that traffic flow and hierarchy play in important role in transport efficiency. (you know this story: Simutrans -> transport simulator -> traffic jams -> vehicles get stuck -> player losing money -> bankruptcy)

This could be solved by this way:

If a road has a speed < 100 km/h, such road can be incorporated into the city network, player wanting it or don't. If > 100 km/h, such road is kept untouched.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on September 11, 2009, 06:58:37 AM
If a road has a speed < 100 km/h, such road can be incorporated into the city network, player wanting it or don't. If > 100 km/h, such road is kept untouched.

I may disagree. IMHO elevated roads for expressways is the way to go, not only for program limits. We can't allow people to build 200 km/h autobahn in the very heart of a city and remain unchanged. And from a realistic point of view, you can't build an expressway just on the sidewalk. Every expressway crossing urbanised areas need to be protected from the normal flow of people and local vehicles.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on September 11, 2009, 03:41:03 PM
But this is where the scale is an issue - tiles are 1km by 1km, too -- and at least over here, we often have interstate highways going through the heart of a city. Speed limits might be as low a 55mph, but sometimes even 60mph even downtown. :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: KrazyJay on September 11, 2009, 04:28:10 PM
In Kaohsiung, Taiwan, there's a major highway going right through the city, with a speed limit of I remember 110 km/h... It's not elevated totally, but there are concrete vertical sound barriers up to 2 stories of a house.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on September 17, 2009, 09:16:12 PM
Here's a pre-preview of 130 km/h tunnels.
The colour is trivial, they will be concrete, with an inner player colour stripe.
The new concept is the inside tunnel, which gives its best in sliced view.
It needs to be coded with makeobj 50, so it needs further test.

feedback is welcome!

(http://i31.tinypic.com/28ckhl0.png) (http://i31.tinypic.com/28ckhl0.png)

(http://i25.tinypic.com/2zfpset.png) (http://i25.tinypic.com/2zfpset.png)

(http://i26.tinypic.com/21m5bt1.png) (http://i26.tinypic.com/21m5bt1.png)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on September 17, 2009, 09:30:26 PM
Oh that just looks awesome to me.

Is there a version with only diagonals, perchance? I see the curve in a place where I'd hope for a straight diagonal...

The tunnel looks so awesome. I love the colour - assume that's player colour.

It just looks gorgeous.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on September 18, 2009, 07:37:47 AM
ihihihih, that curve is there because of the intersection, otherwise it would be straight diagonal (like rail tracks today, i also d@mn like curves, si i think to keep them both ;) -- diagonals are still under refinishment)

thanks for the feedback on tunnels! ;D
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Ashley on September 18, 2009, 08:55:15 AM
Those tunnels look awesome, good work :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: VS on September 18, 2009, 11:18:48 AM
You really know what you're doing :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: KrazyJay on September 18, 2009, 04:18:33 PM
Fabio, it really gives a new and fresh look to pak128! Well done!
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on December 23, 2009, 07:36:27 PM
Tunnels looks nice but I am worried about following: cars will touch ceil.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: gauthier on December 24, 2009, 10:09:46 AM
Roads are very nice !
tunnels are awesome !!
good work ;)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: prissi on December 24, 2009, 11:00:17 PM
Soon the wide portal patch will come, just to notify you.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on June 10, 2010, 12:50:32 PM
Soon half year will be passed from previous post - and I would like to know when these new roads and new tunnel (I think that for higher speed than 80 km/h) will be in game.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: prissi on June 10, 2010, 09:39:21 PM
They are, if you compile makeobj by yourself and use a nightly.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on June 11, 2010, 05:25:16 AM
Ouch... I use nightly (currently #974) - but I only use makeobj for finishing add-ons - but I don't compile makeobj, itself. I have not experience with compiling of anything.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on June 11, 2010, 09:16:56 AM
My project of working on Roads (and Rail Tracks) has been on hold for a while (a long while, i should say), but I'll try to resume it as soon as i have a little time :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: gauthier on June 11, 2010, 03:18:20 PM
hurry up I'm going to do it too  ;D (after some projects of course ...)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on July 05, 2010, 09:34:51 AM
There's no rush, but I've started working on roads again:

http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=5473.msg53225#msg53225

But I'd love to play with your roads, Fabio. :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on July 09, 2010, 07:33:23 AM
I'm trying to resume some works these days.
I divided the big project in 3 parts.

Part 1: highways (work in progress: 68%)
- 200 km/h: Road (99%)          + Bridge (90%)
- 130 km/h: Road (99%)          + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel (80%) + Elevated (10%)
- 110 km/h: Road (99%)          + Bridge (90%)                + Elevated (10%)
-  90 km/h: Road (99%)          + Bridge (10%) + Tunnel (40%)

Part 2: urban and suburban roads (in project)
-  70 km/h: Road (80%)          + Bridge                    ( + Elevated ?? )
-  50 km/h: Road (80%)          + Bridge       + Tunnel     ( ALSO CITYROAD )

Part 3: old and/or poor quality roads (in project
-  70 km/h: Paved Road (20%)    + Bridge
-  50 km/h: Gravel Road       ( + Bridge ?? )
-  40 km/h: Stone Road (80%)    + Bridge     ( + Tunnel ?? )( ALSO CITYROAD )
-  30 km/h: Dirt Road (40%)     + Bridge


I think (hope?) part 1 could be released by the summer.
In the final plan, part 3 will be up to the 1950s - 1960s (dirt road will survive for countryside use); part 1 and 2 will follow in time (90 km/h will be available already in 1930s)

Hope this gives a hint of the whole plan :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on July 09, 2010, 07:41:28 AM
I like, I like! Especially elevated roads. :D
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on July 09, 2010, 10:18:24 AM
Me too ...

Elevated ways (commonly - it means also railway and maglev tracks) are good invention but there is problem with pillars and continuity (transition?) between some tiles - but this is based on my experience with it.

But I am looking forward to seeing it.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on July 16, 2010, 12:43:31 AM
Are you considering opening the source, or keeping closed?

If open, would you mind if I made annoying modifications? ;-)

If closed, would you consider a version of the highway that has no stripes? (purpose would be for ramps - to match pavement/railing, but I don't like the stripes for my ramps - of course, this is personal preference; I'm willing to put in work if I can get sources to work with)

(( I always hesitate to ask a question like this, because hey: This is your work. Whatever your decision is good for me. :-)  ))
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on July 16, 2010, 07:10:08 AM
The goal is: open source and (hopefully) release in main pak. But i will release the parts of the project (sources + paks for testing) only when completed or, say, in release candidate status.
If you find useful a stripeless version, it should be very easy to post, too.

Updating on the works:

Part 1: highways (work in progress: 89%)
- 200 km/h: Road (80%)          + Bridge (90%)
- 130 km/h: Road (99%)          + Bridge (99%) + Tunnel (80%) + Elevated (99%)
- 110 km/h: Road (99%)          + Bridge (99%)                + Elevated (99%)
-  90 km/h: Road (99%)          + Bridge (89%) + Tunnel (40%)

Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: mip on July 16, 2010, 08:02:52 AM
...
- the Authors of the existing Pak128 roads, especially MIP for the texture of dirty road.
...

Glad that you started to improve the dirt road. I never felt it was good :). Problem with this road is to get the fuzzy look of a dirt road without getting problems on the tile edges when combining them.

I like the city road in the first picture. But even here one can see how hard it is to make edges where you do not see the tiling.
Title: Fast Road Tunnels?
Post by: aliesperet on July 18, 2010, 12:58:41 PM
Hello

I've been playing pak.128 for a while now,
but I wondered if there are any faster Road tunnels.
The only tunnel there is is for cars has an 80 km/h speed limit,
and that slows down my buses.

it would be nice if i could get a answer

thanx Already!
Title: Re: Fast Road Tunnels?
Post by: Fabio on July 18, 2010, 05:37:27 PM
90 km/h and 130 km/h are under construction :)
Title: Re: Fast Road Tunnels?
Post by: aliesperet on July 18, 2010, 06:29:35 PM
90 km/h and 130 km/h are under construction :)
Thanx!
Title: Re: Fast Road Tunnels?
Post by: FoxHole on July 20, 2010, 03:54:18 AM
I dont know if this is legal.Try to get a bridge pak on other pakset. Cut and paste it to the current pak youre using. Hope this may help you.   ;)
Title: Re: Fast Road Tunnels?
Post by: vilvoh on July 20, 2010, 07:08:36 AM
It's legal, FoxHole. In fact, it's one of the greatest features of Simutrans but you must be carefull and choose the object from a pakset of the same size.
Title: Re: Fast Road Tunnels?
Post by: FoxHole on July 20, 2010, 11:54:13 AM
Thanks for the great info! Fully appreciated! :)



Title: Re: Fast Road Tunnels?
Post by: nitromefan on July 21, 2010, 08:54:57 AM
i found some high speed road tunnels. Download them here.

japanese.simutrans.com/index.php?plugin=attach&refer=Addon128%2FOthers&openfile=HWSvol1v3.zip (http://japanese.simutrans.com/index.php?plugin=attach&refer=Addon128%2FOthers&openfile=HWSvol1v3.zip)

In this set there is a 100Km/h and 200km/h tunnel as well as some other handy highway items.
Title: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT PREVIEW
Post by: Fabio on August 04, 2010, 06:55:49 AM
- Overview (http://i35.tinypic.com/102urh5.png)

- 90 km/h intercity road (http://i36.tinypic.com/jzy2yf.png)

- 110 km/h expressway (http://i33.tinypic.com/6z798p.png)

- 130 km/h motorway (http://i38.tinypic.com/2jflkpz.png)

- 200 km/h autobahn (http://i35.tinypic.com/w18pdd.png)

Overview:
(http://i35.tinypic.com/102urh5.png)click to enlarge (http://i35.tinypic.com/102urh5.png)

90 km/h
(http://i36.tinypic.com/jzy2yf.png)click to enlarge (http://i36.tinypic.com/jzy2yf.png)

110 km/h
(http://i33.tinypic.com/6z798p.png)click to enlarge (http://i33.tinypic.com/6z798p.png)

130 km/h
(http://i38.tinypic.com/2jflkpz.png)click to enlarge (http://i38.tinypic.com/2jflkpz.png)

200 km/h
(http://i35.tinypic.com/w18pdd.png)click to enlarge (http://i35.tinypic.com/w18pdd.png)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Zeno on August 04, 2010, 08:12:46 AM
Hey, man! Those shots look amazing!!   :award:
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on August 04, 2010, 10:32:04 AM
They look quite interesting. I am only worried about safety barriers on basic roads and elevated ones. I am worried about cars will go over them.

I have only small idea for a little more interesting shape of pillars for bridges
(http://en.structurae.de/files/photos/3299/berounka_valley_viaduct/img_7621.jpg)

But of course, bringing into Simutrans would be very difficult and some things from shape would not be brought as well as they could be.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on August 04, 2010, 11:17:45 AM
Thank you all 8)

They look quite interesting. I am only worried about safety barriers on basic roads and elevated ones. I am worried about cars will go over them.

They are tested and they look ok (because there is the shoulder / safety lane, they don't cover the actual road, which starts with the stripe).
The only issue is with the horizontal diagonal, where the vehicles can overlap the safety barrier by 1 px (and there are also come clipping issue). But IMHO, being an isolated case, the cost/benefit ratio is positive.



I have only small idea for a little more interesting shape of pillars for bridges [...]
But of course, bringing into Simutrans would be very difficult and some things from shape would not be brought as well as they could be.

Very impressive! But unfortunately, as you said, they are almost impossible to make with the current code. Anyway, it's goot to have the picture in hands :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on August 04, 2010, 12:27:23 PM
I tried to paint it once - but I have done two things:
1. upper part is inside basic bridge tile
2. pillar part is fully vertical

You can see it in action if you download this railway pack (http://ota.webz.cz/data/way.train.object/zeleznicnicestykomplet1.zip).

Don't die after seeing it. It is very imperfect.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: gauthier on August 04, 2010, 12:55:03 PM
very nice roads  :o
You should create elevated roads for each road ;)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on August 04, 2010, 01:44:57 PM
ehehehehe, it's a thought :)

In the Plan, 200 km/h will use the tunnel and the elevated road of 130 km/h(for "safety" reason). Thus it is mostly to be used for long stretches.

130 km/h is the complete motorway :)

110 km/h is an expressway with the big advantage of elevated, but without tunnels: 90 km/h should be used for "safety" reason.

90 km/h is the basic intercity road, inclusive tunnels, but doesn't have elevated: if you need them, go for the 110 km/h expressway.

70 km/h (under construction) is a local road, good to link suburbs and factories with the cities or the main network. It will probably have also elevated, for urban use. No tunnels, though, for "safety" reason: use 50 km/h instead.

50 km/h (under construction) is the urban road, used also as default cityroad (there might be a specific "cityroad", which differs only for small details). It has tunnels, but no elevated (if you need them, go for 70 km/h instead)

30 km/h (under construction) is a country dirt road, with no amenities except bridges.

This set will be fully operative around 1970s and will replace gradually (starting probably in 1950s) an earlier set with speed 30 km/h (unchanged), 40 km/h (paved cityroad), 80 km/h (intercity roads) and 100 km/h (early motorways). For this era, no elevated and two tunnels (probably 40 km/h and 80 km/h).

The main goal, beside providing a complete and consistent set, is the choice of the right infrastructure for the appropriate use. Their consistency should make them look good also mixed together (e.g. a 110 km/h slipway for 130 km/h or even 200 km/h; 110 km/h using 90 km/h tunnels; etc...)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: ӔO on August 04, 2010, 03:34:57 PM
very nice work, I can't wait to see this completed :D

If you have overlapping problems with the walls on the road, I think you can use the front/back image with roads.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: gauthier on August 04, 2010, 04:45:12 PM
I completely disagree the way you make elevated ways or tunnels for each road, you can make elevated, tunnel and bridge for each way, that would be useful for the user.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on August 04, 2010, 06:11:08 PM
I think you can use the front/back image with roads.

On bridges there is no problem - but other two types don't use back and front images. So you would need to have something like electrification to add it - and it is not quite good idea.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on August 04, 2010, 11:37:24 PM
Fabio, those are just absolutely delightful.

I completely disagree the way you make elevated ways or tunnels for each road, you can make elevated, tunnel and bridge for each way, that would be useful for the user.

I do believe he mentioned making the sources available, so I see no reason to be disagreeable.

Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on August 05, 2010, 06:58:17 AM
Thank you, AEO and Isaac!

I completely disagree the way you make elevated ways or tunnels for each road, you can make elevated, tunnel and bridge for each way, that would be useful for the user.

This is a relevant opinion. Till now, the speed of roads, bridges and tunnel (only one) hardly matched. My project already lines up the speed much more consistently, without cramming excessively the menu. Elevated and tunnel for every speed is easily doable, though.

I would like to know the opinion of the other players, and specially of VS, Isaac, Zeno and the other pak128 team. I don't feel like painting what it wouldn't/shouldn't be released in the official pak. Sources will be available, as usual, on completion.



I added a poll in this thread, please let me know your opinion.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on August 05, 2010, 07:38:59 AM
I only voted "yes to all" because I like having more options to pick and choose - I probably wouldn't install all options, although I might... I haven't gotten to *play* with your mixture, but it *sounds* like a good mixture.

I do strongly feel you should only do what you believe is a good mix - particularly with sources being released, and especially if you don't mind-- if those that want it do it, great (i.e. my philosophy of releasing paks)... :)

I have hopes that I can translate some of your sources into a US-style system... (And one day of convincing Prissi to allow elevated ways on water tiles) :)

(especially because US freeways don't have guardrails all along the way, only where needed at bridges or non-level land - not saying anything is better than anything else, only what I hope to modify on the style :) )
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on August 05, 2010, 08:52:04 AM
Me too ... I voted yes for all too ...
but who says that each track (road, railway, maglev and so on) cannot have more than one bridge with different speeds.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Spike on August 05, 2010, 01:40:00 PM
I think restrictions spice up the game, and make people think about the "best" solution. So I voted for the first, restrictive "no" option.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: wlindley on August 05, 2010, 03:31:06 PM
Agree with Hajo. A variety makes the game interesting.  On the same idea, having the higher speed ways cost *much* more to maintain, forces choices to make efficient networks.

It sure would be nice if the higher speed roads, could be effectively Toll Roads, drawing income from each Citycar that traversed a square.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Zeno on August 05, 2010, 04:02:55 PM
I voted the last, all options available, use what you want.

But I would add a trick here ;D
I would push away intro dates for bridge & tunnel, and maybe restrict only the quickest ways, just for us who play timeline games. I mean, bridge availability might be delayed 5 years and tunnels 10, for each road type.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on August 09, 2010, 04:51:53 AM
I don't think that availability for bridges and tunnels phased of five or ten years could be good.

Expensiveness of building and maintenance could be better - mainly if bridges would have different speed than basic road. I would offer difference less than ten percent of basic road.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on August 09, 2010, 07:06:59 AM
mainly if bridges would have different speed than basic road.
This is exactly what i didn't like of the current set-- and i'll avoid at any cost.

Probably a good compromise i'm thinking of is to add 110 km/h tunnel and 90 km/h elevated.

We could go with

200 km/h: road + bridge
130 km/h: road + bridge + tunnel + elevated
110 km/h: road + bridge + tunnel + elevated
90 km/h: road + bridge + tunnel + elevated
70 km/h: road + bridge
50 km/h: road + bridge + tunnel + elevated ( + special cityroad )
30 km/h: road + bridge

Overall: 23 objects and 22 icons in the menu.
In the previous project it was 20 icons. An overcrammed menu is not desirable either, it could come up to 25 (26 objects) adding:
200 km/h: elevated
70 km/h: tunnel + elevated
These could bu done too, if it's the case.
I don't intend to make 200 km/h tunnel for any reason, because i don't think it could be a safe speed in RL, i deem it too irrealistic IMO. Similarily, i consider absurd any tunnel/elevated for 30 km/h country road.
I hope VS will read this topic soon and give us his opinion on the optimal number of icons/objects to be put in the pak.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Zeno on August 09, 2010, 07:52:51 AM
Just an idea/question. Could we add a retire date for a couple of them? I mean, when 110kmh is available, maybe 30kmh road could become obsolete, and same with 200 and 70. Thus will make menus lighter on timeline games, and the pak would keep integrity.
I know it won't be a popular idea, but I'm sure I won't need 30kmh or 70kmh roads in year 2000 and above, I will have enough with 50kmh for "slow and cheap" purposes, and 90 for intercity. This way you would reduce the amount of icons in menu by 4 items in timeline games; I guess in non-timeline games it shouldn't matter.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on August 09, 2010, 11:24:22 AM
No, those are still useful.
30 km/h is very useful when you have farms and you play with tractors: their max speed is around 30 km/h, and they look better in poen countryside.
70 km/h is something in between urban roads and intercity. It can remain only way + bridge, or disappear altogether (this is an option i could go for).

200 km/h: road + bridge + elevated
130 km/h: road + bridge + tunnel + elevated
110 km/h: road + bridge + tunnel + elevated
90 km/h: road + bridge + tunnel + elevated
50 km/h: road + bridge + tunnel + elevated ( + special cityroad )
30 km/h: road + bridge

21 Icons (+ cityroad)

Here's a proposed timetable:

(http://i33.tinypic.com/27y7312.jpg)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Zeno on August 09, 2010, 11:29:26 AM
That timetable looks reasonable. And 21 icons might be worthy with the amount of different possibilities that.
They still are too much for me, but I must be honest and think that most people here will like to have that many options to choose from :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: ӔO on August 09, 2010, 12:58:43 PM
30km/h farm road is usually a private road. most country side roads are marked as 80km/h zones even if they aren't paved to high standards and you'll sometimes see farm equipment being moved around at 30km/h on these roads.

inside dense city areas, where you'll usually find elevated freeways, the speed limit is lowered to 90~100km/h due to the shorter intervals of intersections.
Out in the country side, with long intervals of intersections, the limit is 110~130km/h.

but that's in real life.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on August 09, 2010, 01:11:01 PM
Ok, 110 km/h expressways will be phased out after introduction of 200 km/h autobahns.

There are no more than 18 objects at any time during the game.



I will lock the poll, as this solution appears rather convincing to me.
(http://i38.tinypic.com/kc0x28.png) (http://i38.tinypic.com/kc0x28.png)



Zeno, could you help me, please, with balancing costs and maintainance, as a function of introduction/retirement dates and speed?
Mind that i would like to make bridges and tunnels relatively less expensive for faster ways.

I was thinking of something like this:

ROADS
200 km/h: 1100 ç
130 km/h: 620 ç
110 km/h: 440 ç
90 km/h: 290 ç
70 km/h: 180 ç
50 km/h: 90 ç
40 km/h: 60 ç
30 km/h: 30 ç

BRIDGES + ELEVATED
200 km/h: 1900 ç
130 km/h: 1420 ç
110 km/h: 1240 ç
90 km/h: 1090 ç
70 km/h: 980 ç
50 km/h: 890 ç
40 km/h: 860 ç
30 km/h: 830 ç

TUNNELS
130 km/h: 3220 ç
110 km/h: 2040 ç
90 km/h: 1890 ç
70 km/h: 1780 ç
50 km/h: 1690 ç
40 km/h: 1660 ç


EDIT: Removed timeline, as a new one is posted below. -Fabio

EDIT2: Added poll screenshot, as it may be added a new poll. -Fabio
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Zeno on August 09, 2010, 01:59:38 PM
Zeno, could you help me, please, with balancing costs and maintainance, as a function of introduction/retirement dates and speed?
Mind that i would like to make bridges and tunnels relatively less expensive for faster ways.
Of course. Let me take a look first and think for a while, then I will make a proposal for costs and mantainance.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on August 09, 2010, 02:53:02 PM
Slightly updated timetable:

(http://i34.tinypic.com/2ypiyw8.png) (http://i34.tinypic.com/2ypiyw8.png)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: arnoud on August 09, 2010, 05:05:25 PM
good time line I mean

but why did you introduce the elevated way so late?
I mean that the year 1945 is better.
so in a game I can't wait for elevated ways.

Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on August 09, 2010, 09:53:44 PM
You'll have elevated for expressway (110 km/h) starting from 1930.
For the other, you have to wait 1965, when building technology improves ;)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: VS on August 09, 2010, 10:17:43 PM
The new timeline really does look well balanced. I have nothing more to say... ;)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: diegoviagens on August 09, 2010, 11:07:41 PM
You can build a road with three lanes in some
pak??
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuhTFOYF3W8fQIFxOm7cslw4XtG7nv982E9VWg5hZ3K9D-RpU&t=1&usg=__HF4sm-O05My3WnVuL5eUit0QOZ4=)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on August 10, 2010, 12:16:02 AM
No, three lanes are not possible.

Traffic is always two-way, single-lane, no matter the graphic painting.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on August 10, 2010, 06:45:58 AM
The new timeline really does look well balanced. I have nothing more to say... ;)
Thank you! So this is the way I'll go! :)

Traffic is always two-way, single-lane, no matter the graphic painting.
It's also possible to make it one way using appropriate signs. In this case, using the second lane to overtake slower vehicles will be easier.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on August 10, 2010, 12:36:09 PM
But traffic is still always two-way, which is what I intended to emphasize. It's very true that a no-entry type sign will prevent traffic from passing that sign in one direction; however, roads are still two-way - which I think is important to realizing what's really going on when we create freeways. :-)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on August 11, 2010, 07:19:55 AM
A further improved timetable version:
Changes:
- new 50 km/h gravel road (road + bridge) to be used as intercity road before 1900 (when the 70 km/h is introduced) and till 1929 as a cheaper alternative.
- 70 km/h road will retire only in 1964, being gradually phased out after 90 km/h intercity road introduction in 1945.

(http://i33.tinypic.com/rau6gp.png) (http://i33.tinypic.com/rau6gp.png)



EDIT: About balancing, the new 50 km/h gravel road should be *cheaper* than 40 km/h stone paved cityroad (which should be relatively quite expensive for the era).



EDIT2:

Here's the statistics of the works:

Overall work in progress: 52%

Highways: 82%

Intercity: 44%

Urban: 21%

Rural: 45%

- 200 km/h: Road (99%)          + Bridge(100%)                + Elevated (30%)
- 130 km/h: Road(100%)          + Bridge(100%) + Tunnel (99%) + Elevated(100%)
- 110 km/h: Road (90%)          + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel  (0%) + Elevated (90%)
-  90 km/h: Road(100%)          + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel (99%) + Elevated  (0%)
-  70 km/h: Road (80%)          + Bridge (30%) + Tunnel  (0%)
-  50 km/h: Gravel Road  (0%)   + Bridge  (0%)
-  50 km/h: CityRoad (60%)      + Bridge  (0%) + Tunnel  (0%) + Elevated  (0%)
-  40 km/h: Stone Road (90%)    + Bridge  (0%) + Tunnel  (0%)
-  30 km/h: Dirt Road (90%)     + Bridge  (0%)

Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: stmaker on August 19, 2010, 06:45:32 AM
So, when will your project be downloaded?
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on August 19, 2010, 07:47:43 AM
When it's done.

There's no need to ask when something will be released. It will be released when it's released.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on August 19, 2010, 08:24:48 AM
Here's the statistics update of the works:


Overall work in progress: 64%

Highways: 84%

Intercity: 44%

Urban: 64%

Rural: 45%

- 200 km/h: Road (99%)          + Bridge(100%)                + Elevated (30%)
- 130 km/h: Road(100%)          + Bridge(100%) + Tunnel (99%) + Elevated(100%)
- 110 km/h: Road (90%)          + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel (10%) + Elevated (90%)
-  90 km/h: Road(100%)          + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel (99%) + Elevated  (0%)
-  70 km/h: Road (80%)          + Bridge (30%) + Tunnel  (0%)
-  50 km/h: Gravel Road  (0%)   + Bridge  (0%)
-  50 km/h: CityRoad (90%)      + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel  (0%) + Elevated (90%)
-  40 km/h: Stone Road (90%)    + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel  (0%)
-  30 km/h: Dirt Road (90%)     + Bridge  (0%)


The improvement has mostly concerned new and old cityroads.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: stmaker on August 20, 2010, 12:20:58 AM
16/25 of the project is complete. Ok... nice.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: gforce on August 23, 2010, 10:57:10 AM
are these new roads gonna be parts of pak128-set or an extra add-on you'll have to download?
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on August 23, 2010, 03:30:46 PM
My plan is for them to be part of pak128-set, replacing ALL the other roads.
Obviously the Pakmaster needs to include them ;)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: diegoviagens on August 23, 2010, 06:22:35 PM
it can also provide addseria interesting to
people who do not want to download another 128 pak
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: stmaker on August 24, 2010, 09:23:11 AM
My plan is for them to be part of pak128-set, replacing ALL the other roads.
Obviously the Pakmaster needs to include them ;)

You have done great for pak.128.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Zeno on August 24, 2010, 01:43:05 PM
My plan is for them to be part of pak128-set, replacing ALL the other roads.
Obviously the Pakmaster needs to include them ;)
It will be really difficult to resist to such a sweet candy, fabio! :D
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: VS on August 24, 2010, 03:08:55 PM
I don't expect any delays once the data are ready for use ;)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: rfg123 on August 24, 2010, 05:28:01 PM
I really like this roads, especially the new dirt texture! I think it is great you are making a more dynamic road network for pak128, it helps add character to better represent certain eras.

One request though.. Could there be a slightly darker colored, slower (15 or 20 km/h) version of the dirt road for the early years (say pre-1900) included in the set? There are not a lot of choices during those years and it would be neat to have some variety. It can be a "stage road", "wagon trail" or some such thing..
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: greephus on September 14, 2010, 03:33:45 PM
Hi guys/fabio,
could you please help me how could I get these nice roads?
I'd like to build some dual carriage highway and they match perfectly to my idea :)
Thanks



- Overview (http://i35.tinypic.com/102urh5.png)

- 90 km/h intercity road (http://i36.tinypic.com/jzy2yf.png)

- 110 km/h expressway (http://i33.tinypic.com/6z798p.png)

- 130 km/h motorway (http://i38.tinypic.com/2jflkpz.png)

- 200 km/h autobahn (http://i35.tinypic.com/w18pdd.png)
...
...
...
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on September 15, 2010, 07:11:54 AM
you can't get them... yet!
once they are finished, they will be released ;D
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: greephus on September 15, 2010, 09:10:58 AM
sounds good
can't wait   :D

do we know something about the date when it will be released?
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on September 15, 2010, 09:15:50 AM
At least another 1-2 months.
unfortunately, painting time runs thin, these days...
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: greephus on September 15, 2010, 09:29:23 AM
really?  ???
did not know that it takes so much time, since on the screenshot seems fine
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on September 15, 2010, 09:49:44 AM

Overall work in progress: 64%


and few work done since.

The biggest part concerns now tunnels and earlier roads.

I hope it may take less, maybe for a Release Candidate for testing.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on September 16, 2010, 02:37:51 AM
I'd gladly help test. :D
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: greephus on September 16, 2010, 09:33:31 AM
me too if it is possible  :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: tony.p on October 17, 2010, 01:09:08 PM
Hallo fabio. Your roads are very nice. How far are with production? A how long yet abortion work?
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: greenling on October 28, 2010, 03:16:37 PM
fabio
I have be look on your picture from the new roads and Tunnels.
and must said thats you try too make good pakfiles.
here On tip for your development:
its the Development from the new Roads,tunnels,bridge and Elevated road
be closde then give your new pakfiles names they be not overwirte
old pakfiles.
new pakfiles make the simutransworld colorful and beautiful!

greenling
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on November 15, 2010, 01:29:51 PM
Finally, last weekend I resumed a bit the works.
Here's the statistics of the update:


Overall work in progress: 73%

Highways (110-200 km/h):  96%

Intercity (55-90 km/h):   50%

Urban (40-50 km/h):       64%

Rural (30 km/h):          80%

- 200 km/h: Road       (100%) + Bridge(100%)                + Elevated(100%)
- 130 km/h: Road       (100%) + Bridge(100%) + Tunnel (99%) + Elevated(100%)
- 110 km/h: Road        (90%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel (90%) + Elevated (90%)
-  90 km/h: Road       (100%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel (99%) + Elevated (50%)
-  70 km/h: Road        (80%) + Bridge (30%) + Tunnel  (0%)
-  55 km/h: Gravel Road  (0%) + Bridge  (0%)
-  50 km/h: City Road   (90%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel  (0%) + Elevated (90%)
-  40 km/h: Stone Road  (90%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel  (0%)
-  30 km/h: Dirt Road   (90%) + Bridge (70%)


130 km/h tunnel has been completely redrawn. Old tunnel will probably be used for 110 km/h.
Added elevated for 200 km/h; elevated for 90 km/h under work.
Discovered a previous version of 30 km/h bridge, almost done.
Gravel road speed will be raised to 55 km/h, for it not to be used as a city road.
I hope to release the pak for Christmas (painting time is still very few, I'm trying to make the most of it)


(http://i33.tinypic.com/rau6gp.png) (http://i33.tinypic.com/rau6gp.png)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Zeno on November 15, 2010, 06:35:23 PM
Wow, it slowly grows! It would be a perfect Xmas present for the pak :)
Priceless work, fabio! :award:
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on November 15, 2010, 09:21:29 PM
I refuse to make another post expressing my anticipated excitement.

Oh, wait, I guess I am after all. ;-)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Lawyer on November 16, 2010, 05:23:47 PM
Wow! It looks great! I'm really excited to see it working. Good work, fabio!
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on November 19, 2010, 02:36:47 PM
No graphic updates from last post, but here I come with a comprehensive proposal for prices and maintainance.
I would ask the Game Economics experts (Zeno?) to validate them.

Speed |
Road Cost |
Road Maint. |
Bridge/Elev. Cost |
Bridge/Elev. Maint. |
Tunnel Cost |
Tunnel Maint. |
30 km/h |
12,00 Cr |
0,00 Cr |
320,00 Cr |
12,00 Cr |
55 km/h |
24,00 Cr |
1,00 Cr |
340,00 Cr |
16,00 Cr |
40 km/h |
45,00 Cr |
2,00 Cr |
380,00 Cr |
17,00 Cr |
850,00 Cr |
40,00 Cr |
50 km/h |
90,00 Cr |
4,00 Cr |
460,00 Cr |
19,00 Cr |
950,00 Cr |
42,00 Cr |
70 km/h |
170,00 Cr |
7,00 Cr |
600,00 Cr |
22,00 Cr |
1100,00 Cr |
45,00 Cr |
90 km/h |
290,00 Cr |
10,00 Cr |
810,00 Cr |
25,00 Cr |
1400,00 Cr |
48,00 Cr |
110 km/h |
460,00 Cr |
14,00 Cr |
1100,00 Cr |
29,00 Cr |
1800,00 Cr |
52,00 Cr |
130 km/h |
680,00 Cr |
17,00 Cr |
1500,00 Cr |
32,00 Cr |
2300,00 Cr |
55,00 Cr |
200 km/h |
1200,00 Cr |
24,00 Cr |
2400,00 Cr |
39,00 Cr |
These figures tend to reproduce the old ones for similar speed.
Here are the formulas used:

KR = ([1..9] / 4)^2   
    where [1..9] is the progressive number of the road, from lower to higher quality
   KR ranges from 0.0625 to 5.0625

Road_Cost = MAX(10, 40 * KR) + Speed * KR

Bridge_Cost = 300 + 1.75 * Road_Cost

Tunnel_Cost = 750 + 2.25 * Road_Cost

KM = (0.03 + (10 - [1..9]) / 100 ) / 2
    where [1..9] is the progressive number of the road, from lower to higher quality
   KR ranges from 0.06 to 0.02

Road_Maint = Road_Cost * KM
    Road_Maint is 0 for 30 km/h

Bridge_Maint = 0,05 * 300 + Road_Maint
    Road_Maint is 12 for 30 km/h (= Road Maint)
   
Tunnel_Maint = 0,05 * 750 + Road_Maint

Bridge and Tunnel costs increase less than proportionally compared to Road costs, having fixed costs of, respectively, 300 and 750 Cr.

Maintainance is relatively lower for better roads.

Here is the timeline (just as a reminder):

(http://i33.tinypic.com/rau6gp.png) (http://i33.tinypic.com/rau6gp.png)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Zeno on November 19, 2010, 04:05:35 PM
No graphic updates from last post, but here I come with a comprehensive proposal for prices and maintainance.
I would ask the Game Economics experts (Zeno?) to validate them.
Consider your budget approved ;)
Costs and maintenance for base roads fit perfect on current system edges, and gaps look like have good proportions. Moreover, the progression seems to be fairly logical, which I like even more than maths.
The only think I always wonder when thinking on price/mantainance costs is whether to apply or not exponential raising and which curve deepness should be used for each. I'll take a further look on that, but at the moment these numbers look very well.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on November 19, 2010, 04:15:47 PM
Thank you, Zeno!

If it can help you, i attach here the Excel sheet with figures and calculations...
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Zeno on November 19, 2010, 05:02:48 PM
Fantastic! Thanks fabio :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on November 19, 2010, 11:11:34 PM
By the way, 40 km/h stone city road is intentionally more expensive than 55 km/h gravel road, in order to disincentivate the use of the former outside cities.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: sdog on November 20, 2010, 12:18:23 AM
i want to propose incresing the maintenance of the 30 km/h gravel road from 0 to any small value. Having no maintenance gives road transport quite an edge over rail, especially since the actualy driven speed has no influence on the speedboni.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: An_dz on November 20, 2010, 12:42:43 AM
I agree with sdog, in real life even if it's gravel you need to send trators to remove the holes rain create or stop the plants from 'invading' the road and also, sometimes, put more gravel. That's how works some gravel and dirt roads here in my country.

And by the way those roads are amazing.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Zeno on November 20, 2010, 12:45:34 PM
I have similar opinion to you two, sdog & An_dz. Me no like zerp maintenance. I'll think about what to do about that, but I can advance I have two ideas to start with it: 1) fixed cost for all city roads, no matter speed or level 2) calculate city roads and normal roads in different process/sheet/scale/whatever (in other words, don't mix them).
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Lawyer on November 20, 2010, 02:32:46 PM
I agree that 30km road must have some maintenance. Same maint. cost for all city roads seems pretty unfair to me, too. I was wandering if maint. costs can be calculated grouping types of alike ways (dirty, gravel and cobblestone = type 1, asphalt 70km, 90km and 110km = type 2, concrete 130km and 200km, type 3), having same maint. costs to roads of the same type. Well, fabio's model is much better then this, but it's just an idea for a different process/sheet/scale/whatever =P
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on November 22, 2010, 03:43:42 PM
I just revised the proposal for prices and maintainance.

Speed |
Road Cost |
Road Maint. |
Bridge/Elev. Cost |
Bridge/Elev. Maint. |
Tunnel Cost |
Tunnel Maint. |
30 km/h |
15.00 Cr |
1.30 Cr |
430.00 Cr |
18.00 Cr |
|
|
55 km/h |
55.00 Cr |
4.60 Cr |
510.00 Cr |
16.00 Cr |
|
|
40 km/h |
80.00 Cr |
2.20 Cr |
560.00 Cr |
13.00 Cr |
1,000.00 Cr |
24.00 Cr |
50 km/h |
100.00 Cr |
2.80 Cr |
600.00 Cr |
11.00 Cr |
1,100.00 Cr |
19.00 Cr |
70 km/h |
140.00 Cr |
3.90 Cr |
680.00 Cr |
12.00 Cr |
1,200.00 Cr |
21.00 Cr |
90 km/h |
270.00 Cr |
7.50 Cr |
940.00 Cr |
16.00 Cr |
1,600.00 Cr |
24.00 Cr |
110 km/h |
440.00 Cr |
12.00 Cr |
1,300.00 Cr |
21.00 Cr |
2,100.00 Cr |
29.00 Cr |
130 km/h |
520.00 Cr |
14.00 Cr |
1,400.00 Cr |
23.00 Cr |
2,400.00 Cr |
31.00 Cr |
200 km/h |
800.00 Cr |
22.00 Cr |
2,000.00 Cr |
31.00 Cr |
|
|

The values are slightly revised (some higher, some lower) and can be further tweaked.
What changed is mostly in the LOGIC behind, a bit more coherent (less coefficients).

Here are the formulas used:

Kc = [1..8]
    This is to group roads by type, as proposed above.    
   1 is for 30 km/h dirt road
   2 is for 55 km/h gravel road
   4 is for 40 and 50 km/h city roads, and for 70 km/h intercity road
   6 is for 90 km/h intercity road
   8 is for 110, 130 and 200 km/h highways

Road_Cost = (Speed * Kc) / 2

Bridge_Base = 400

Bridge_Cost = Bridge_Base + (2 * Road_Cost)

Tunnel_Base = 800

Tunnel_Cost = Tunnel_Base + (3 * Road_Cost)

Maintainance was completely re-thought.
The basic idea is that in x months the total maintainance paid will sum up to the construction cost.
In other words, after x months of maintainance the infrastructure can be considered renewed.
We need to play with the number of months.

M1 = [12..36]
   This is the number of months needed to renew the road surface
   12 months for 30 km/h dirt road and 55 km/h gravel road: in one year the weather ruins the cheap infrastructure
   36 months for all the other road types: stone or asphalt need less maintainance

M2 = [24..48]
   This is the number of months needed to renew bridges and tunnels
   24 months for 30 km/h timber bridge
   36 months for 55 and 40 km/h stone bridges and 40 km/h tunnel
   48 months for all the other bridges (concrete) and tunnels
   
Road_Maint = Road_Cost / M1

Bridge_Maint = (Bridge_Base / M2) + Road_Maint
   
Tunnel_Maint = (Tunnel_Base / M2) + Road_Maint

Some newer type infrastructures have lower maintainance than older ones, making it convenient to replace them when newer are available.
Specially, 55 km/h gravel road is rather cheap, but quite expensive to maintain.

Here's a new timetable, with costs: it shows the cost gaps in time periods:

(http://i52.tinypic.com/dlow10.png)

In attachment: the updated Excel sheet.

EDIT: Added a few brackets for readability
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Lawyer on November 22, 2010, 03:59:50 PM
Wow! Very, very cool! I liked pretty much the new way you build the maintenance costs. Great!
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: 123abc on January 18, 2011, 06:52:22 AM
any update's?
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on January 18, 2011, 04:36:18 PM
I'm rethinking a bit tunnels layout, the rest is in an advanced stage...
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on January 18, 2011, 07:29:50 PM
If you would need some ideas, you can find them on www.structurae.de (http://en.structurae.de).
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: gauthier on January 18, 2011, 08:47:16 PM
Nice website (and translated in French ^^ )
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on January 20, 2011, 02:17:24 PM
Here's the statistics of the update:


Overall work in progress: 88%

Highways (110-200 km/h):  90%

Intercity (55-90 km/h):   79%

Urban (40-50 km/h):       93%

Rural (30 km/h):         100%

- 200 km/h: Road       (100%) + Bridge(100%)                + Elevated(100%)
- 130 km/h: Road       (100%) + Bridge(100%) + Tunnel (60%) + Elevated(100%)
- 110 km/h: Road        (90%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel (60%) + Elevated (90%)
-  90 km/h: Road       (100%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel (80%) + Elevated (60%)
-  70 km/h: Road       (100%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel  (0%)
-  55 km/h: Gravel Road(100%) + Bridge (90%)
-  50 km/h: City Road   (90%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel (90%) + Elevated (90%)
-  40 km/h: Stone Road (100%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel(100%)
-  30 km/h: Dirt Road  (100%) + Bridge(100%)


As said above, tunnels are intended to be reworked.
Bridges, instead, are either completed, either in a very advanced stage.
Unfortunately, painting time is extremely short, I couldn't keep the deadline of Christmas.
However, the work to do for a pre-release is few, now.
After the pre-release, I'll add winter version too, plus all the fixes from the feedback.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Zeno on January 20, 2011, 05:39:00 PM
Oh, great news, fabio! We're looking forward beta-test it! ;)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: VS on January 20, 2011, 06:13:35 PM
/jumps on bandwagon
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: 123abc on February 08, 2011, 03:56:22 AM
Any update's?
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on February 17, 2011, 02:21:18 PM
Any update's?

- Resumed work on tunnels

- Fixes to Bridges and elevated for 110-130-200 km/h

- Reworked turns for 200 km/h

Unfortunately I paint at home and browse the forum mostly at work or by smartphone, so I don't have screenshots.
After i'll have a RC version, i'll release it together with some screenshot.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on February 17, 2011, 03:12:23 PM
After i'll have a RC version, i'll release it together with some screenshot.
Finally.  :D
I hope it will be very soon.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on February 17, 2011, 03:21:36 PM
Honestly, I hope it too! :)

I've been working on them for almost one year and the first stub is even older...
I can't wait to get away with it!!!


February 18, 2011

Actually, the first trials date back to September 2009. And with more experience, also part already done had to be reworked to get improved.

I want to share with you an accident occurred last night.
The XCF source file got corrupted from last save, so apparently I lost all the updates listed two posts ago. Gosh, I had a choke! Last backup was January, 29th! In the end, I recovered it all from the exported PNG i use to test the objects in game. I had to tweak the images a bit, in order to split everything in the appropriate layer, but now the source is back, backupped, and a little bit more has been done.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on March 07, 2011, 02:08:35 PM
OK, good news on the topic :)

The summer version of all roads, bridges and tunnels is now in a pre-release status.

Still snow layer to be added, but I could say a test version should be made available soon-- together with some screenshots.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Zeno on March 07, 2011, 02:20:05 PM
Superb news!! :drool:
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: 123abc on March 07, 2011, 07:35:03 PM
Can I please test it for you?
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on March 07, 2011, 07:47:25 PM
Splendid.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: uktrain on March 10, 2011, 12:10:54 AM
Waiting for its roll out and I can upgrade my highway from 110km/h.Good job!
Title: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT - RELEASE CANDIDATE
Post by: Fabio on March 13, 2011, 02:40:39 PM
Hello!

The Road set is officially in Release Candidate status.

Here's the test pak:

http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/roads/ROADS-0_9RC-pak.zip (http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/roads/ROADS-0_9RC-pak.zip)
And here's the sources (including Gimp master file):

http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/roads/ROADS-0_9RC-src.zip (http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/roads/ROADS-0_9RC-src.zip)

Screenshots will follow ASAP, if someone wishes to take and post some, please do it, my net is very bad these days.

I'll happily receive any feedback.

Happy testing!!!
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Zeno on March 13, 2011, 02:43:01 PM
Oooohh!!!

*Zeno waves!!!*

We were waiting so long for this... thanks fabio, you're the man!! ;D
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: VS on March 13, 2011, 03:36:34 PM
Ummmm... I lack the right words. Just this: "waiting was worth it".

Do try out fabio's bus stops on fabio's city roads ;D

Minor nitpicks: urban tunnels could have some fence over entrance, so that Simupeople don't fall to their death. Also, the high level roads & bridges have a bit short pillars. And that's all - both easy to fix. Nearly flawless!
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on March 13, 2011, 04:17:08 PM
Elevated ways and bridges need different pictogram on icon - it is not good if it is the same. I think that pictogram for bridges could contain blue curve meaning water - because they can go across water while elevated ways not.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Zeno on March 13, 2011, 04:27:13 PM
I think Vaclav is right... I've already been confused twice in 10 minutes between elevated and bridges. Not needed a new cursor, but a new/different icon would help with that. Maybe just a couple of straight pillars instead of a bridge pictogram would do the job.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on March 13, 2011, 04:48:56 PM
... and also I see on roads following:

1. one pixel space between tiles of dirt road - and also there is similar graphical bug as on roads for speed 50 and 90 km/h

2. roads (and also elevated ways and bridges) for speed 50 and 90 km/h need better transition between tiles - because something what seems like yellow light causes transition between tiles very strange - the worst situation is on elevated way for speed 50 km/h - there it is the most visible
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: An_dz on March 13, 2011, 05:36:03 PM
OK here are the screens: Click to enlarge
Hope you like.
(http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/2081/roads.th.png) (http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/2081/roads.png)(http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/2046/crossings.th.png) (http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/2046/crossings.png)(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/9202/elevated.th.png) (http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/9202/elevated.png)(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/279/bridges.th.png) (http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/279/bridges.png)(http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/3258/bridges2.th.png) (http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/3258/bridges2.png)(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/228/tunnels.th.png) (http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/228/tunnels.png)(http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/3986/tunnelscrossings.th.png) (http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/3986/tunnelscrossings.png)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: 123abc on March 13, 2011, 07:31:25 PM
YAY!!!
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: alexbaettig on March 13, 2011, 07:36:03 PM
LIKE!!!!!
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Ashley on March 13, 2011, 11:44:14 PM
Very very good work, beautiful set :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: ӔO on March 14, 2011, 03:45:14 AM
excellent work.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: sdog on March 14, 2011, 03:59:13 AM
brilliant!
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Junna on March 15, 2011, 12:05:02 PM
The testpak crashes Simutrans with my modified pak128.

Starting the same in Experimental 9.3 displays the following error message:

Quote
FATAL ERROR: realloc()
Could not alloc 0 bytes
PRESS ANY KEY

Starting without this new road pak does not cause this error to appear.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Lmallet on March 15, 2011, 01:00:27 PM
In my case, it seems to have corrupted a game saved in v.102.3.  Was not able to recreate in 110.0.1.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Zeno on March 15, 2011, 02:55:47 PM
I've been able to make a quick-test with the set. Amazing work... superb!!
Thank you very much fabio! :)

Btw, no problems with the set at the moment. It has worked fine for me until now, no problems/incompatibility detected with 110.0.1 + openpak128.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on March 16, 2011, 08:51:34 AM
It would be good, if dat files of tunnels contain also this:
way=road_130 (for example - for tunnel of speed 130 km/h)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: greenling on March 19, 2011, 10:03:22 PM
Please contac me then the Road be finished!
Then can we talking over new names for road,bridges and tunnel.

greenling
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on March 19, 2011, 10:16:25 PM
???
I don't understand you, Greenling.

If you would like to suggest new names (but I don't see why - because it will be in translation) for roads, bridges and tunnels, then why did not you write it?

And you can be informed about development of this new set if you don't disable messages about this topic.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: greenling on March 19, 2011, 10:24:42 PM
That it´s Simpel VaclavMacurek.
New Roads,Bridges and Tunnels be need new Names that she not override exist old pakfiles!

greenling
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: VS on March 19, 2011, 10:31:58 PM
I think it is safe to state that we* are not that dumb.




* meaning authors on this forum :P
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on March 19, 2011, 10:37:31 PM
But this is prepared for replacing of old pakfiles.

If you would like to play with old files and also with these files, then don't play with singleplayer_install = 1 - and these files extract into folder pak128 created in Documents/Simutrans - if you use Windows - and then start with Load with addons.

-->
You was faster, VS. And of course, you are right too.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: greenling on April 02, 2011, 05:37:55 PM
VaclavMacurek
Here the oldes playables simutransgames they i be have:
A Simutrans 0.80.00.0
A Simutrans 0.82.15.7
A Simutrans 0.84.19.0
The do all work on windows 7!
My Complette Simutransfolder have bigness form 17,1 GB.
I Have beginning to make a list from all Simutranspakfiles they i be have.
And i have to beginnig to sort out dobbels pakfiles but i try not to remove rare
Pakfiles!
I Have beginning to make a Photogallary from all Simtranspakfiles they i have.

Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: VS on April 02, 2011, 05:56:30 PM
So, you are in a way a "historian of Simutrans" :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Djohaal on April 09, 2011, 02:00:41 AM
The roads as they are look absolutely beautiful, but I beleive there's room for some tiny adjustments on the tunnels and bridges in the form of more subtle shading. Take a look at the buildings made by MK500 (is that the name? The guy who made the steel mill, corn farm, ethanol plant, etc). The soft shading that is applied to flat surfaces and curves helps to ease the look of the buildings to the viewer. Of course applying such a thing to repetitive elements such as bridges might be an issue, but I think it's worth investigating.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: INJMVO on April 09, 2011, 02:24:36 AM
I think Vaclav is right... I've already been confused twice in 10 minutes between elevated and bridges. Not needed a new cursor, but a new/different icon would help with that. Maybe just a couple of straight pillars instead of a bridge pictogram would do the job.
I do not know if you've already done this Fabio, but this is my idea for the icon.
I have already modified your png files if you're interested. (icon and cursor)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on April 11, 2011, 09:43:38 AM
The soft shading that is applied to flat surfaces and curves helps to ease the look of the buildings to the viewer. Of course applying such a thing to repetitive elements such as bridges might be an issue, but I think it's worth investigating.
Ty Djohaal. Shading is kind of hard without going 3D (here it's all multilayer 2D), but it might be worth a try (probably in a second time as a 2.0 release :)

I do not know if you've already done this Fabio, but this is my idea for the icon.
I have already modified your png files if you're interested. (icon and cursor)
Wow, this is the pictogram concept i couldn't figure out. Thank you very much!
I would need just the image of the pictogram alone (to be integrated in the multilayer source), but the png could be used now by VS for the pakset release. I like it!
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Djohaal on April 11, 2011, 08:11:59 PM
Ty Djohaal. Shading is kind of hard without going 3D (here it's all multilayer 2D), but it might be worth a try (probably in a second time as a 2.0 release :)

There should be some guides on pixel art shading on deviantart. You should give it a check. :)
Even more important than shading, I beleive a slight texturing and irregularity on the concrete parts of the structures would be of good use.
Title: elevated roads graphical bug
Post by: uci on April 19, 2011, 08:56:26 AM
Happens with 200km/h elevated roads (image).

Also, the icons for elevated roads and bridges are identical, leading sometimes to confusion (because there are so many icons on the toolbar). Making the pillars of icon bridge a little different, for example, would help.
Title: Re: elevated roads graphical bug
Post by: Zeno on April 19, 2011, 09:15:19 AM
Thanks for the report, uci. Btw, those icons are being already modified with a different pictogram for elevated roads, as far as I know.
Title: Re: elevated roads graphical bug
Post by: Fabio on April 19, 2011, 01:27:16 PM
Thanks, uci.
That bug will be fixed in the next updated release.
The icons will be changed as well, probably earlier as there is already a new version of the pictogram around.
Title: visual bugs on diagonal roads
Post by: uci on April 28, 2011, 07:39:44 AM
The following two bugs are apparent on the new diagonal roads (image): road too narrow (up) and white artifacts (down).
Title: Re: visual bugs on diagonal roads
Post by: Zeno on April 28, 2011, 10:36:23 AM
Is this screenshot from the new release (1.99 alpha) or an older one?
Title: Re: visual bugs on diagonal roads
Post by: uci on April 28, 2011, 11:11:54 AM
Is from alpha.
Title: Re: visual bugs on diagonal roads
Post by: Fabio on April 28, 2011, 11:46:23 AM
Road too narrow: in a way it's a feature more than a bug. This is the gravel road and it's expected to barely fit two crossing vehicles.

White stripe: is it also unzoomed? Rather ugly, instead the upmost margin, that definitely needs to be fixed!
Title: Re: visual bugs on diagonal roads
Post by: VS on April 28, 2011, 11:56:25 AM
Timothy had some method for drawing roads that were wide enough...
Title: Re: visual bugs on diagonal roads
Post by: uci on April 28, 2011, 12:22:48 PM
Road too narrow: in a way it's a feature more than a bug.
I see, but is hard for me to get used with it.

White stripe: is it also unzoomed?
Appears also when unzoomed.

Related with this topic is the old behaviour of vehicles when reaching a waypoint placed on a diagonal segment (see sequence).
Title: Re: visual bugs on diagonal roads
Post by: DirrrtyDirk on April 28, 2011, 06:31:34 PM
Related with this topic is the old behaviour of vehicles when reaching a waypoint placed on a diagonal segment (see sequence).

That's nothing we can fix in the pakset, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on June 24, 2011, 04:28:41 AM
And I found something what is not good feature but it is not true bug - shape of tunnels.

Shape of tunnels used for roads of speed 90 km/h and up is surely good - but it does not fit to age before year 1990 or so (later). So I suggest to make for those roads two or more shape types of tunnels what would appear in different times.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: arnoud on July 21, 2011, 07:09:12 AM
I found 2 bugs both in graphic
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/830/simscr17.png/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/830/simscr17.png/)
On the right there are grow trees in asphalt.
The tunnel that is used is the 110 speed is correct but the image is of a add-on, when lay on the ground it give only 60km/h.
but if I use the underground mode it takes the correct image

but overall nice roads
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: sdog on July 22, 2011, 09:50:11 PM
just had a chance to see them in the nightly, those roads look brilliant!
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on July 23, 2011, 06:23:51 AM
On the right there are grow trees in asphalt.

The tunnel that is used is the 110 speed is correct but the image is of a add-on, when lay on the ground it give only 60km/h.
but if I use the underground mode it takes the correct image
The first bug you call is in game, itself, not in road. Try to kill trees on slopes behind road and all will be right.

And if I am not wrong in my thought about what you think, that it is in game too - because (backward) enter tiles of tunnels take form of road on what it is built - but you can do following: in layer view use tunnel building and re-cover tunnel road inside itself. It will correct image of enter tiles.
...
And if I am wrong, then it is needed to prepare picture where it will be highlighted - and where will be visible difference between layer view and underground view.

just had a chance to see them in the nightly, those roads look brilliant!
All you need is to download latest nightly - from here (http://nightly.simutrans-germany.com/) because they were included some time ago - as new official roads
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: DirrrtyDirk on July 23, 2011, 11:52:22 AM
All you need is to download latest nightly - from here (http://nightly.simutrans-germany.com/) because they were included some time ago - as new official roads

He did. He said he saw them in the nightly.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: arnoud on July 23, 2011, 12:59:00 PM
He did. He said he saw them in the nightly.
No this is the test version but I didn't have time to look after downloading. Now I've time but it's already fixed
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on July 23, 2011, 02:41:34 PM
... oops ...
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: DirrrtyDirk on July 23, 2011, 09:39:18 PM
No this is the test version but I didn't have time to look after downloading. Now I've time but it's already fixed

And I was talking about sdog, not you, since he is who was quoted by Vaclav.  ;)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: sdog on July 25, 2011, 06:21:17 AM
oops... i think i should be less ambigous in my postings, sorry Vaclav.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: arnoud on July 25, 2011, 02:47:33 PM
I'm sorry I don't read careful enough
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: INJMVO on July 26, 2011, 02:23:56 PM
Here are the empty icons you asked for Fabio
(icon and cursor image)
bit late perhaps but I was busy with school.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: greenling on August 06, 2011, 03:52:41 PM
Sorry goves a update form the Simutransnightly?
Title: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT *BUGFIX RELEASE*
Post by: Fabio on August 30, 2011, 02:30:37 PM
Hi all,
finally a bugfix release.

link removed

Changelog:

- new icon for elevated
- cursor with amber outline
- diagonals bugfixes
- 200 km/h elevated fixed
- gravel and dirt roads alignment
- stripe in 90, 110 and 130 km/h now is player color
- added way=road_xxx parameter in dats

NOT done (maybe in future):
- new tunnel portals
- larger diagonals for dirt and gravel roads
- fence on 50 km/h and 40 km/h tunnels entrance

Known issues
- elevated climbing a slope miss a corner of their safety fence (unfixable due to 128*128 px limit)

Unfortunately the sources come in 2 files (1 summer + 1 winter), they need to be split for SVN server.



EDIT: changelog edited



mod note: all bug reports merged in the present thread ~Fabio
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on August 30, 2011, 02:34:02 PM
I must admit - I hadn't played Simutrans in a good while... but when I randomly stumbled across this thread a few days ago, I've been playing again. These are really really really fantastic.

I've always been a road player anyway, as most probably know... hehe. These are truly awesome.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: greenling on August 30, 2011, 02:56:55 PM
fabio
the new road what you hate be make looks very good out!
I Try too make a Photo from the old and the news Road.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: VS on August 30, 2011, 03:00:57 PM
I can't download them now...
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on August 31, 2011, 04:09:57 PM
VS, use Opera - if you have it. I found that with Chrome, FF (6) and also IE it does not run.
... with Opera pages are displayed - but nothing downloaded.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: greenling on August 31, 2011, 04:45:24 PM
VS
What´s for a Internetbroser do you use?
Title: BUGFIX RELEASE: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on September 13, 2011, 08:29:23 AM
Hi all,
finally a bugfix release.

Changelog:

- new icon for elevated
- cursor with amber outline
- diagonals bugfixes
- 200 km/h elevated fixed
- gravel and dirt roads alignment
- stripe in 90, 110 and 130 km/h tunnel is now player color
- added way=road_xxx parameter in tunnel dats

NOT done (maybe in future):
- new tunnel portals
- larger diagonals for dirt and gravel roads
- fence on 50 km/h and 40 km/h tunnels entrance

Known issues
- elevated climbing a slope miss a corner of their safety fence (unfixable due to 128*128 px limit)

Unfortunately the sources come in 2 files (1 summer + 1 winter), they need to be split for SVN server.


I finally uploaded the files to my hosting.

Here's the test pak:

http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/roads/ROADS-1_0-pak.zip

And here's the sources (including Gimp master file):

http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/roads/ROADS-1_0-src.zip

Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: dominickwan on November 19, 2011, 04:22:15 PM
In the 130km/h and 200km/h roads,
when i zoom out, there're some fault lines at the edge of the tiles.
is there any problem about this?
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on November 19, 2011, 04:38:20 PM
Answer would be easier when based on screenshot - but it may be issue of zooming, not graphics, itself - because inside zooming graphics are a little damaged.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: dominickwan on November 19, 2011, 05:33:41 PM
Answer would be easier when based on screenshot - but it may be issue of zooming, not graphics, itself - because inside zooming graphics are a little damaged.

Just like this one. The 130km/h road doesn't fit when zoomed out
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Václav on November 19, 2011, 06:16:30 PM
It is what I spoke about - it is very common issue. It is on all ways (not only roads) - in various zoom levels.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: MHD on December 21, 2011, 10:36:03 PM
One thing I noticed for the 40 and 50 km\h road with pavement:
 
There is a black line around the pavement from several sides. This one can badly interact with electrification of the road, since the chosen colour is almost the same as the electrification cable.
Maybe a change of colour would separate it from electrification. (Since these road pieces can neighbor to other roads, that line looks sometimes bit strange, especially in the curves, where it disappears in the middle of the curve).
 
Just look on the picture, the arrow shows the interaction...
 
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: sdog on December 22, 2011, 01:00:13 AM
that's the shadow line?
perhaps it could be dithered where it curves, to blend it in better. that alone might already help to make it more distinctive from catenary. (it'd look less solid).

The interference of catenary and sidewalk remains, even when the line would be lightened, perhaps moving the catenary lines two pixels might help much better? (that troleybus-like-tram-hack catenary is work in progress?)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on December 22, 2011, 02:12:47 PM
The shadow line is the same as in the old cityroad.
Of course it might be improved (especially with AntiAliasing, but I don't see it as a priority ATM.
Thanks anyway, I will consider it...
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: MHD on December 23, 2011, 07:33:25 AM
The tram catenary is work in progress, I will put in online tomorrow. Changing the position isn't easy, because the catenary of the multiple tiles should fit to each other and have to fit to the road vehicles. It surely would be easier to change the shadow. Interference of both details is also due to the similar colour.
But I agree with fabio, that it is a small detail with lower priority...so I go on to make the last optimizations on the system to be able to publish tomorrow  :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on December 23, 2011, 08:05:03 AM
MHD,

pantograph should be as large as 4-6 px at least, so it should be able to go 1-2 px to left or right empyrically...
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on February 10, 2012, 11:36:32 AM
Before I start trying to see if I can make yellow-stripe versions, I just wanted to make sure that wasn't in the works, by chance... :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on February 10, 2012, 01:57:27 PM
Nope, you can do it!
As a piece of advice, you can start from here: http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/roads_src/way-road-01.xcf.bz2?view=log
After you open it in Gimp, just replace the layer named "STRIPE" with your own stripes and everything should be ok.

If you export the file as way-road-01.png and the snow version (toggle "SNOW" layer) as way-road-02.png you should be able to compile them using this dat here: http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/roads_src/way-road.dat?view=log.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: tonu on March 06, 2012, 05:09:57 PM
Hi! I've been playing Simutrans for years (not always, sometimes I don't play for months), now I started playing after some months and I actualized the game. I found these amazing new roads, so congratulations to the authors, the elevated ways solved some problems in my actual game (I started in 1900 and now I'm in 2038, so things have grown a lot), but I notice a few bugs that I marked in this screenshot:
(http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/3313/simscr41.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/252/simscr41.png/)

1 and 4: pillar obstruct road
2 and 3: pillar over vehicle
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on March 06, 2012, 05:25:54 PM
Hello and welcome! They are known issues. Those elevated are not designed to fit there. The trade off is between variety and versatility. So I made some elevated which can be drawn over other roads and other which are not supposed to.
50 km/h and 130 km/h are. The other can, but at the price of these glitches.
The solution would be to paint them all like the said 2, but then we lose graphical variety. I'm sorry, this is basically the limit where we can push the pakset to... :(
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Isaac Eiland-Hall on March 06, 2012, 08:38:41 PM
Until someone is able to put in an extension request for alternate pillars based on whether the road below has ribis indicating it's going the same way under an elevated way... and... that sounds like something doable I'll put in as a request and reference this topic. :)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on December 01, 2012, 01:39:54 AM
I just revamped roads with 70km/h (new bridge & new tunnel) and 90km/h (bridge, elevated & tunnel re-textured).

(http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/road_bridges/road_070_bridge.png?revision=1063)

This bridge was thought for rail tracks replacement, then put aside. Now I recycled it for 70 km/h road.
Previous was:
(http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/road_bridges/road_070_bridge.png?revision=1000)

(http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/road_tunnels/road_070_tunnel.png?revision=1063)

This tunnel is brand new, although based on new rail tunnels.
Previous was:
(http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/road_tunnels/road_070_tunnel.png?revision=1000)

In r1063.

I plan to improve existing bridges (and sometimes tunnels) using the new textures for concrete and copying some rail bridges.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: HDomos on December 01, 2012, 08:08:00 AM
Wow... They are nice (the 70km/h bridge and tunnel at least because i didn't see the 90km/h version :D)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: greenling on December 01, 2012, 08:53:14 AM
Fabio
Thank you for the new graphic. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on December 01, 2012, 10:26:57 AM
I didn't see the 90km/h version :D)

Because it's basically unchanged, but for different concrete texture and snow layer.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Sarlock on December 01, 2012, 10:30:29 AM
Wow, I really love that stepped brick appearance leading to the tunnel.  Nice work!
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: mEGa on December 01, 2012, 10:39:46 AM
Wow, I really love that stepped brick appearance leading to the tunnel.  Nice work!
+1
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: VS on December 01, 2012, 12:55:37 PM
Beautiful bridge :)

I wanted to post a rant about missing brick viaduct, but then realized the set still has one. D'oh. I am still the flametrooper mode, it seems :D
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on December 01, 2012, 01:54:05 PM
Thank you VS!
This bridge was too nice to be wasted.

The 40 km/h brick viaduct will be replaced as well, but with basically the same improved layout of 140 km/h railways and given elevated as well.
Title: Pillars of the 90 and 110 km/h road bridges
Post by: McAlpine on December 02, 2012, 01:56:44 AM
In the attached image, the 90 (3rd rightmost) and 110 (1st and 2nd rightmost) bridges have a large gap between the slope and the first pillar on the NW end, but only a small gap between the last pillar and the slope on the SE end. It is a pure graphics issue and has nothing to do with different topographies on both ends; if I rotate the map, the large gap is always on the "upper" end (from my view).

I understand that the 110 bridge with its 2-tile-span will always be asymmetric if the bridge spans an odd number of tiles (see the SE end of the rightmost bridge), but this even happens with the 90 bridge and with even number of tiles.

Bug occurs with simutrans 112.0 and svn r1063 of pak128

Title: Re: Pillars of the 90 and 110 km/h road bridges
Post by: McAlpine on December 02, 2012, 02:37:36 PM
I think I found out what causes it: The bridge_starts need pillars too (in the 70 km/h bridge it is already like this). I added pillars to the bridge_starts and I think now it looks better:

http://imageshack.us/a/img839/6433/road090bridge.png (http://imageshack.us/a/img839/6433/road090bridge.png)
Title: Re: Pillars of the 90 and 110 km/h road bridges
Post by: McAlpine on December 02, 2012, 07:19:21 PM
I did the same for the 110, 130 and 200 bridges. However, due to the placement of pillars with spacing of 2, it now looks asymmetric depending on which direction you view the bridges from. Look for yourselves:

http://imageshack.us/a/img31/6262/brcken1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/a/img31/6262/brcken1.jpg)
http://imageshack.us/a/img853/7229/brcken2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/a/img853/7229/brcken2.jpg)

The 90 bridge however now looks symmetric from every direction.

The updated bridges can be found at http://imageshack.us/g/1/9899364/ (http://imageshack.us/g/1/9899364/).
Title: Re: Pillars of the 90 and 110 km/h road bridges
Post by: Fabio on December 02, 2012, 08:54:35 PM
Thank you, I'll fix them and set them all at 1 tile distance.
Title: Re: Pillars of the 90 and 110 km/h road bridges
Post by: Fabio on December 04, 2012, 03:06:16 PM
Fixed in r1070.

Revamped 110, 130 and 200 km/h graphics just updated in r1070 as well.

More changes:

And I found something what is not good feature but it is not true bug - shape of tunnels.
Shape of tunnels used for roads of speed 90 km/h and up is surely good - but it does not fit to age before year 1990 or so (later). So I suggest to make for those roads two or more shape types of tunnels what would appear in different times.
Nothing done (yet?) about 90 km/h tunnel, but definitely 110 km/h tunnel didn't agree with the timeline.
This is the portal replacement:
(http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/road_tunnels/road_110_tunnel.png?revision=1070)
Previous was:
(http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/road_tunnels/road_110_tunnel.png?revision=1000)

Known issues
- elevated climbing a slope miss a corner of their safety fence (unfixable due to 128*128 px limit)
Fixed in revamped & retextured elevated.

For the images of other changes, please check the svn.
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on December 07, 2012, 02:00:05 AM
New bridges and tunnels for 40km/h and 50 km/h in r1079 (bugfixes in r1082).
40 km/h roads now have elevated as well.

(http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/road_tunnels/road_040_tunnel.png?revision=1082)
(http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/road_bridges/road_040_bridge.png?revision=1082)
(http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/road_elevated/road_040_elevated.png?revision=1082)
(http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/road_tunnels/road_050_tunnel.png?revision=1082)
(http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/road_bridges/road_050_bridge.png?revision=1082)
(http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans/pak128/base/road_elevated/road_050_elevated.png?revision=1082)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Sarlock on December 07, 2012, 02:10:22 AM
This is amazing work, Fabio!  Where do you find all the free time??    :o

So much work has gone in to pak128 in the past few months... it's going to look so amazing!
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: HDomos on December 07, 2012, 01:46:05 PM
Really nice. :)
I noticed a bug: The pillars of both40 and 50km/h bridges are wrong positioned in r1082.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5KV-ZVMZDeA/UMHy2WeqMvI/AAAAAAAALrk/FWt_rzzM4fI/s800/simscr182.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-q_CqWbpbf0A/UMHy2YqNHXI/AAAAAAAALrg/EzWzBdfOg_I/s800/simscr181.jpg)
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: greenling on December 07, 2012, 03:19:19 PM
Fabio
The Roads a very good work.
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT
Post by: Fabio on December 11, 2012, 01:52:01 AM
I noticed a bug: The pillars of both40 and 50km/h bridges are wrong positioned in r1082.

It should be fixed in r1092.

I also revamped 30km/h and 55km/h roads and bridges and improved pillars for 70km/h bridge.

You can check the changes in the svn (http://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/simutrans?view=revision&revision=1092).