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PakSets and Customization => Pak128 Add-ons and Graphics => Pak128 => Pak128 Incorporated Add-ons and Graphics => Topic started by: Zeno on March 31, 2010, 02:24:24 PM

Title: TGV set
Post by: Zeno on March 31, 2010, 02:24:24 PM
I have been working in a small set of TGV (french high speed trains) consisting in five different passenger trainsets plus a post one. I've finished the model for the first one which I'm currently testing in Simutrans. I will make a complete release when all them are finished (I hope it can be during this weekend).

I've written an article in my blog (http://simutrans-creations.blogspot.com/) for the first trainset: the TGV PSE. You can find there some information as well as some previews (I'll add screenshots later this night) and screenshots.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Fuzzy Peach on March 31, 2010, 04:46:48 PM
It looks awesome!
Title: Re: TGV set - TGV Atlantique
Post by: Zeno on April 01, 2010, 07:29:42 AM
Thanks Fuzzy Peach :)

Btw, already added the next one to the blog: the TGV Atlantique (http://simutrans-creations.blogspot.com/2010/04/new-locomotive-tgv-atlantique.html).
Hope you like it too!
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Václav on April 01, 2010, 09:36:49 AM
???
Here is detail of front locomotive of TGV Atlantique:
(http://www.trainweb.org/tgvpages/images/atlantique/tgva301.jpg)

So I have to say: Most of new vehicles are more perfect than original ones - but not your new version of TGV. Please, try to improve shape of top of engine between windows of pilot's room and roof. Also it seems that you made sides too straight (I don't know how better to say it) - front profile is not rectangle. And middle cars are connected by shared chassis.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Aquel on April 01, 2010, 09:57:37 AM
Hello

That make almost 3 people working on it!
Yourself
Fefe: http://www.simutrans-france.fr.nf/doku.php?id=en:fefe (scroll down to TGV )
There was another person long ago who made one also but cannot get it on the forum.

Anyway yours is very nice.
Just why is it becoming green in the screenshot and blue in the render view?

Can you do me a favor?
Could you please say how you can make a tile for simutrans with Blender?
I would like to know so I can make addons using that tile.

Thanks.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Zeno on April 01, 2010, 10:03:04 AM
@VaclavMacurek:
Yep, I made the sides too straight, like you say. Maybe I try to bend them a bit at same time I reduce length, which is a bit too long. The space between the driver's room and the roof is 4 px high, so you won't see any change there even if I painted in a different colour. Same to wagon connection, which is hell to handle in simutrans.
I tried some changes to the driving cabin before, and the most detail I introduce in the blender model, the worst result I get in 128 pixel sized vehicle. So despite the big render is a bit ugly and squared, I don't feel like improving it any more except for bending sides.

@Aquel:
Uhm, I didn't know about other's TGVs, despite I guessed there should be some hidden somewhere in the language or old forums :)
About the tile in blender, I never use it. I just render the vehicle and resize it until it gets the needed size for pak128 (about 46x17x12 pixels for a train, f.i.). Anyway I can look in my templates later on and see if I can find something.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Aquel on April 01, 2010, 10:07:56 AM
@Aquel:
Uhm, I didn't know about other's TGVs, despite I guessed there should be some hidden somewhere in the language or old forums :)
About the tile in blender, I never use it. I just render the vehicle and resize it until it gets the needed size for pak128 (about 46x17x12 pixels for a train, f.i.). Anyway I can look in my templates later on and see if I can find something.

Sorry didn't ask my questions properly... ;D
Can you say what angle should be the camera and the light in order to render a simutrans vehicle.

In short if I want to draw an object (let's say the eifel tower as an example ;)) using blender.
What is the correct value of the camera (angle and height) and light value to get a good render?

Hope I was more correct this time. ;D
Thanks for help.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Zeno on April 01, 2010, 10:16:15 AM
Ah, ok. Then it's 60º angle to the ground and the camera IIRC is 30º. Distances and light level aren't fixed, you will have to make some testing to get to it, but 40 units height over the ground and 0.8 light level should work ok. Distance for cam-object should be similar to the sun-object, smaller but close. Just test and see :)

Here you can find some info about that kind of stuff: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=782.0

Just why is it becoming green in the screenshot and blue in the render view?
Oh, just rendered the big pix in original color scheme, but applied player colors to the simutrans object.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Aquel on April 01, 2010, 10:47:05 AM
Ok nice.

I'll test it and see what can I do with this.
Thanks again for the help
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: gauthier on April 01, 2010, 05:26:02 PM
TGV PSE is already existing in the official pak128, it was made by Haru.

Also, the French community is already working on TGV, an experimental release of TGV duplex is downloadable on SNFOS'website.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Václav on April 01, 2010, 06:32:23 PM
@VaclavMacurek:
Maybe I try to bend them a bit at same time I reduce length, which is a bit too long.

I don't think that vehicles' length needs to be reduced. It seems be OK - and after bending of sides it will look much better.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Zeno on April 01, 2010, 07:05:47 PM
Vehicles are 1-2 pixels too long. They look fine when in-line, but look at that screenshot where 2 convois are together: the two engines that are together are overlapped :( I've made some tests with the TGV Duplex (wich is almost finished) and seems to fit better.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Václav on April 02, 2010, 09:13:31 PM
Do you plan to set retire year or not? Because I think that it deserves to be in game for ever after - mainly if you make also post version (and that this train will be very useful because game needs such trains).
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Zeno on April 02, 2010, 11:52:37 PM
Maybe there's a retire date for the first ones, the PSE and the Atlantique, but not for the Duplex or POS.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Václav on April 03, 2010, 06:56:57 AM
POS? One decked TGV with engine of Duplex?

Retire year for TGV Atlantique - may it be - but TGV what does not need retire year is TGV La Poste. Or, please, make post train less set retire year - because game needs post train like TGV La Poste. Such train is missing in game.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Zeno on April 06, 2010, 02:48:46 PM
AFAIK they are new engines (more powerful) with same appearance as the Duplex ones, with attatched Résseau single deck cars (that's what the wiki says about it).

About this set (I'm sorry about not saying it before), it will be composed by the following trainsets:

Additionally, I'm considering to add the new AGV by Alstom to the list, but I'll decide about that later when these six are finished.

Btw, the PES, La Poste (which actually is a PES with La Poste livery) and Atlantique are completely redesigned. The previews at the blog articles have been updated, not yet the ingame captures. The models basically have been "soften" a bit, with less angles, and all cars have been shortened to fit better in game (about 2 pixels). All cars have sides bended now (roof and floor are now narrower) so section looks more like an hexagon now.

Last weekend I finally didn't have as much free time as I expected, so the set will be finished during the following weeks.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Fuzzy Peach on April 06, 2010, 09:14:22 PM
I can't wait! I have been longing for a Eurostar ever since they came out with the capability to have underwater tunnels.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: gauthier on April 09, 2010, 05:14:19 PM
I made the AGV, you can dowload it on this page ;)
=> http://www.simutrans-france.fr.nf/doku.php?id=en:fefe
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: kierongreen on April 09, 2010, 06:02:39 PM
There is of course already a Eurostar in pakBritain :)
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Václav on April 09, 2010, 07:31:27 PM
Gauthier: At the first sight AGV looks quite good - but game will show all its errors (including difficult achieving its top speed as it is called on your pages). But now I am in game year 1955 and so long time has to pass away until I will can test it.

Kierongreen: where?
file br009.pak available on addons.simutrans.com
or
one available inside pak128.Britain

The first one I think I did not tested. And the second one is too dark for main pak128 - but else it is nice.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: gauthier on April 09, 2010, 07:47:54 PM
In fact I didn't find neither the mass nor the power of the train so I based the data on a value which is given on Alstom website :
22,6 kw/t

I don't know what is it exactly but I did with  :-X

The best to do is to wait for the first uses of the AGV in Italy, maybe someone would know the technical datas of this train ;)
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Václav on April 10, 2010, 05:16:04 AM
Some data

Overall length m c125
End car length mm 17 100
Intermediate car length mm 17 300
Bogie wheelbase mm 3 000
Width mm 2 900
Maximum speed km/h 360
Weight tonnes 272
Continuous power rating kW 5 760

and I will try to some more exact
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: gauthier on April 10, 2010, 10:20:59 AM
Thanks, I just saw these datas ;)
Once replaced, the configuration with real datas is worse than before  :-X
I increased gear to 2,30 ...
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: The Hood on April 12, 2010, 08:16:23 AM
The two Eurostar files from pak128.Britain you mention are identical except for some balancing details (cost and acceleration I think).  Sources are available within the trains folder of pak128.Britain SVN.  If a complete set of TGVs is being made for pak128 then I can understand wanting a new version to fit pak128 graphics style, but for those that can't wait and want the Eurostar, it has already been available for about 3 years...
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Václav on April 12, 2010, 11:12:20 AM
The Hood: thanks for explaining ?relationship (?similarity) between Eurostar from addons.simutrans.com and from pak128.Britain.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Zeno on April 24, 2010, 08:53:21 PM
Well, after some hard work in real life matters I'm back to the TGV set. Despite they may need some corrections, I consider finished the PSE, La Poste and Atlantique as they are in the blog. I'm working now in the duplex trainsets, which basic shape and paint are already done. I leave a screenshot here (http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt46/ZenoMaN/Simutrans/Duplex_WIP.png).

Btw, I just added the article for the TGV La Poste (http://simutrans-creations.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-locomotive-tgv-la-poste.html) to the blog.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Václav on April 25, 2010, 06:41:07 AM
TGV La Poste looks quite good.

But TGV Duplex needs much work:
(http://carsandtrains.com/ironroad/misce/t_tgvduplex.jpg)

Sides of Duplex are not bent (as picture above shows). Here is difference between TGV Duplex and all other TGV trains.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Zeno on April 25, 2010, 08:07:31 AM
But TGV Duplex needs much work:
Sure. As I said, only...
... basic shape and paint are already done...

Sides of Duplex are not bent (as picture above shows). Here is difference between TGV Duplex and all other TGV trains.
Yep, I realized about that, specially for the cars.

Btw, I have tons of pictures and need no more, so please stop sticking pictures each time you post in the thread! If you think a picture is necessary, try to use a link instead of inserting the image, so the thread becomes easier to follow and read. Thanks!
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Václav on April 25, 2010, 08:24:19 AM
OK. Of course. As you want.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Zeno on April 25, 2010, 08:50:27 AM
OK. Of course. As you want.
Thanks :)

Some changes done. Side bending has been reduced a lot (actually it looks like straight), and proportions have been adjusted to fit Pak128 standards. I hope it looks much better now. New image here (http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt46/ZenoMaN/Simutrans/Duplex_WIP2.png).
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Václav on April 25, 2010, 10:38:34 AM
Wow. Now much bettter. Only colours are missing - and windows on cars could get better alignment, I think. But it may be caused by absence of colours.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: gauthier on April 28, 2010, 06:11:46 PM
I don't want to be mean with you but I really disagree with the way you made TGV in 3D ...
It's definitly not the good shape, I saw TGV Réseau, La poste, POS, duplex and Thalys in reality and they're not as you represented them.

Your TGV duplex is far not enough high, the shape is not good.


Oh, and I repeat that TGVs are already in drawing in the french community.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Zeno on April 28, 2010, 09:33:17 PM
I don't want to be mean with you but I really disagree with the way you made TGV in 3D ...
It's definitly not the good shape, I saw TGV Réseau, La poste, POS, duplex and Thalys in reality and they're not as you represented them.
I'm afraid I can't make everybody happy... despite I keep trying it  :)

Your TGV duplex is far not enough high, the shape is not good.
Well, I really think that new design is fantastic! But it's just an oppinion...

Oh, and I repeat that TGVs are already in drawing in the french community.
Great! Release them and make them open source. That would save me lots of work! 8)
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: gauthier on April 28, 2010, 09:42:26 PM
beta releases of TGV duplex and TGV laposte are avaible here for a while ...
=> http://www.simutrans-france.fr.nf/doku.php?id=fr:fefe

For the sources, ask Fefe.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Václav on July 02, 2010, 03:56:47 PM
Zeno: why is released TGV La poste darker than it was on development screenshot on your blog? And please don't be angry with me for following words: I know you explained some problems with shape of locomotive but I (don't) see missing car what should be between locomotive and other inserted cars.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Zeno on July 02, 2010, 09:41:39 PM
Vaclav: I don't think it's darker, but the different lighting depending on the train direction. Anyway, the change (if exists) must be very small (I didn't notice it). About the cars, I don't understand very well what you say, but let me explain how this vehicle is created: there are the engine heads, one for front and another for back, and two mail cars, one with a big black banner with the text "LA POSTE" (car B) and another without the banner (car A). There are no limitations on car adding, so you could use the development configuration (head-carB-carA-carA-carB-back) or another configuration completely different by using only A cars or B cars or in other orders (head-carA-carB-back). I hope this can give answer to your doubts :)
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: gauthier on July 02, 2010, 10:01:48 PM
He means the cars which are just behind the front and just before the back. See Haru's TGV PSE in pak128 for example : there are special cars behind the front and before the back.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Zeno on July 02, 2010, 10:10:41 PM
Oh, he means I didn't paint any motorized cars next to the head/tail? Well, just simplified the model; I did with the Eurostar but I really think it doesn't worth the effort. It might be more realist, but you get complex compositions with a high number of different cars, which I think is more confusing.

I know it can be disappointing, because of course you can still prefer more realism despite complexity, I understand that point of view. On the other hand, please feel free to modify the sources and add these wagons if you think it's really worthy.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: gauthier on July 03, 2010, 07:23:48 AM
...............

just have this :

front-special car with LA POSTE logo-car-special car-back

special cars aren't motorized.
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Václav on July 03, 2010, 09:30:55 AM
Zeno, could you to try to paint Acela Express?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/AmtrakAcela2035atNewHavenUnion.jpg/300px-AmtrakAcela2035atNewHavenUnion.jpg)

Link to technical informations (http://www.trainweb.org/tgvpages/acela.html)
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Zeno on July 03, 2010, 09:45:50 AM
At the moment I'm quite busy with the ship set, and the next thing are some old emu/dmus, which the pak also lacks of. Btw, I didn't know about these trainset type in USA, which is nice to know. I will add it to my "candidates" list, but I can't promise it will be "selected".
Title: Re: TGV set
Post by: Isaac.Eiland-Hall on July 05, 2010, 10:25:30 PM
I have split off problematic posts from this thread.