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PakSets and Customization => Pak128 => Pak128 Bug Reports => Topic started by: prissi on September 30, 2008, 01:22:35 PM

Title: pak128 running costs
Post by: prissi on September 30, 2008, 01:22:35 PM
THe running costs of busses in pak 128 in 1935 and 1950 are probably wrong. I have several buses, which make only money with 90% filling and more. Some even do not make money at all. (The AI even has lines which were filled to 100% and still did not make money using the best available buses in that year.) I used plain vanilla pak128.158.
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: DirrrtyDirk on September 30, 2008, 01:27:30 PM
Yeah, the whole balancing needs to be redone.
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: Zeno on September 30, 2008, 01:41:07 PM
I agree with both. It's quite difficult to get acceptable income with classic road vehicles, before the 50s. It gets better with newer models, since 50s or 60s.
I already was thinking of ships and planes, which have quite "normal" running costs, but they get paid back in a couple of years... Both should be about 8 or 10 times more expensive to buy, IMHO. Anyway, I gess all this is part of the "whole balance"  ;)
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: PatrickN on September 30, 2008, 03:34:28 PM
I noticed the same thing.  I couldn't make a profit until the 1950s.  I was always on the edge of bankruptcy.  I just thought it was me.
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: DirrrtyDirk on September 30, 2008, 04:10:17 PM
Hmmm but I don't think anyone tampered with any prices yet...

Could be the new speed bonus system (that and the fact that some things now cost more maintenance - according to level - should be the only money-related changes since... at least 99.17, I'd say.)

But yes - all prices will be checked, calculated and changed where necessary, when the new balancing takes place. But as most of you know - pak128 has quite a few objects, so that's gonna take a while, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: VS on September 30, 2008, 04:37:52 PM
Which again raises an interesting question, WHO will do that?
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: wernieman on September 30, 2008, 04:51:43 PM
This is the Problem!

About the balacing we speak 3 Weeks??

It needs time an playing and so it is not simple .... and nobody say "You make a gread job" ;o)
So ... somebody must do it but nobody whant to do it!
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: prissi on September 30, 2008, 07:16:58 PM
Just remove speedbonus.tab should calculate the speed boni according the pre100 system. I will check for that (alternatively the list from simutranslator can be used.)

The speedbonus.tab was from pak64 aparently. Use the following, calculated for pak128 average speed from simutranslator:
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: wernieman on October 08, 2008, 09:02:45 PM
Did somebody work on the balancing problem?

WHEN I get the coss compiler (apple) to work AND my new Server work, then I have next week 1-2 week time to make a little brainstorming ....
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: VS on October 09, 2008, 06:19:55 AM
No, nothing happened yet.
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: whoami on December 10, 2012, 06:56:57 PM
(Looking on watch: four years later...)
Some remark about my experience: With V2.1.0 in (e.g.) game year 1975, speed bonus reference is 73 km/h for the busses, yet only two of the current models meet that requirement. As many bus lines had been in the red, I have spent some time replacing most of the vehicles by any of the two fast models. Now I still have many (nearly all) bus lines with negative income and high utilization at the same time, and also a bank account far below zero. Hmmm...
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: Sarlock on December 10, 2012, 07:04:04 PM
I'm no authority on this, but I believe it is intended to be like this... inner-city bus lines tend to run in the negative unless they are running near capacity all of the time.  You more than make up for your money by running your inter-city routes (train, plane, etc).  You can also run profitable trams and subways to earn inner-city income as well.
In my games I usually run cheap city buses with a max speed of 50 km/h +/- and make all of my profits on the high volume inter-city lines.
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: Zeno on December 10, 2012, 07:10:54 PM
This should have changed quite a lot in latest nightlies, buses were completely rebalanced and it should be easier to make some cash with them. If someone could give opinions based on recent nightlies I would greatly appreciate it :)

Edit:
You may get a still-hot-nightly version from here: http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/buses.7z
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: greenling on December 10, 2012, 07:34:39 PM
Zeno
it the vehicles in the zipfile be make with makeobj 50?
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: Fabio on December 10, 2012, 08:12:47 PM
Pak128 needs now Makeobj v55+.
Earlier versions can lead to graphic glitches.
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: greenling on December 10, 2012, 08:34:07 PM
Pak128 needs now Makeobj v55+. Earlier versions can lead to graphic glitches.
There gives a problem i have many old addon from there gives no png´s and dat´s more.
How can i those addon´s on the latest simutrans adapt without the pakfile to highjacking?
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: Zeno on December 10, 2012, 08:49:18 PM
Pak128 needs now Makeobj v55+.
And me still using v49... I must be nostalgic or something... :P
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: Fabio on December 10, 2012, 10:12:53 PM
@Zeno
Probably no issue with vehicles.
Ways instead would miss pillars and other parts put in front image.

@Greenling
your old pak files should load correctly.
New Makeobj is needed to compile the svn sources.
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: whoami on December 11, 2012, 03:45:08 PM
This should have changed quite a lot in latest nightlies, buses were completely rebalanced and it should be easier to make some cash with them. If someone could give opinions based on recent nightlies I would greatly appreciate it
Is your file's state included in r1092? (BTW: It contains all the busses in one .pak, so the files have to be extracted to replace the previous ones.)
I have tried both: they still result in many modern busses with losses (speed bonus requirement is the same), but overall profit has increased by much (may also have happened due to other changes). I think that I should not play and test at the same time. Also, I use ring lines a lot. Simple comparison in fast forward is not yet possible with my game, because the trains get stuck quite often.
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: Zeno on December 11, 2012, 03:55:18 PM
Oh, thanks whoami for the detailed report. I didn't focus in modern vehicles, although they should be similar to older ones. I will review speed bonus table, and check if values I use are the correct ones.
By the way, I also use lots of circular lines, and they're a broken sack... no matter what you do, they always have losses! >:(
Title: Re: pak128 running costs
Post by: greenling on December 11, 2012, 04:19:29 PM
Zeno
I plan on friday to look in the png and dat from pak128.
Today have i not real freetime.