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Next vehicles

Started by Václav, August 13, 2012, 07:18:35 PM

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Václav

In topic 1930 I published graphic sources for possible next trains for pak96.comic (to Spartanis could help me with learning of improves for pak96.comic) - and I would like to know: Which of them should I try to improve for this pakset?

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

An_dz

I have no idea.
Maybe, start with the engine.

Václav

Currenntly I work on pre-view for tank waggons ... and in attachment are ready three versions.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

An_dz

They are looking good, but in 96comic there's no black line separating the faces, just an outer line. As described in rule #2.

Václav

Thanks. That line on edge of long and short side of waggon will be eliminated. But tell me, which of them is the best?

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

An_dz

I think the last one is more clean and bright, more comic. But I liked the effect in the first one, I think you can change the black lines in the top to darker green.

Václav

#6
Thanks. So this waggon will be the first - but I let somebody else to prepare dat file and make pak files. I have only one wish - to keep at least author and good in name of object (it means VMaX and ... for example passengers).



Waggon for raw oil.
Important hint for dat coders: length: 12 (3/4 of tile) - this number will be for all cars (engines, passenger cars and freight waggons) of this set.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

An_dz

Why that effect in the first two views?
Now I can't understand the concept of the waggon, can you show a picture of that waggon?

I can create the dat and compile for you.

Václav

I don't understand what you think with effect in the first two views (it means on both diagonals)?
Do you think shading of tank or something else?

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

An_dz

Yeah the shading, from diagonal views it looks the top is rounded, but the normal give a flat top look.
So I'm confused if it should be round or flat.

Václav

#10
Round. Of course that tank is round. I could try to make tank a bit brighter - to line could be a little better visible. But I am worried about that it will be the same.



Improved. Tank got brighter colour. Now I hope that round shape of tank will be a little better visible. And of course, I think that your problem with recognizing of shape of tank in basic directions is caused by those sidewalls on both ends.



A little reworked - one minor graphical bug in the vertical diagonal view (the first in line) corrected. Into attachmenta added zip archive with GIMP complete and also PNG parts. So next probable bugs and imperfections may be corrected fast and freely.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

An_dz

Hey Václav, I've edited your image, here's an edited version.

What I did was:
Remove some black lines
Used the same green pallete in all views
Inverted the light in the top of 3rd view
Other minor light changes
Made it lighter

Václav

Quote from: An_dz on August 22, 2012, 03:53:22 PM
Hey Václav, I've edited your image, here's an edited version.



What I did was:

Remove some black lines
Used the same green pallete in all views
Inverted the light in the top of 3rd view
Other minor light changes
Made it lighter

Remove some black lines - I don't see which of them because basic lines are there where they were.
Used the same green pallete in all views - Hard to complain. May be that shades on tanks might be strange.
Inverted the light in the top of 3rd view - Thanks.
Other minor light changes - I see. 2nd view lost shade on that front side.
Made it lighter - I see. Shaded sides are lighter. I don't see more.

Final score: thanks.

Reason of why I decided to let somebody else to prepare dat file and pak file is that I am not sure if pak96.comic has (or not) some specials like graphics.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

An_dz

#13
Quote from: VaclavMacurek on August 22, 2012, 06:41:10 PM
Remove some black lines - I don't see which of them because basic lines are there where they were.
I removed the ones between the side and the top and in the inside part of those darker green stuff on each side.
And added one in the top of 1st view.

Quote from: VaclavMacurek on August 22, 2012, 06:41:10 PM
Used the same green pallete in all views - Hard to complain. May be that shades on tanks might be strange.
You're free to edit it, it's yours.

Quote from: VaclavMacurek on August 22, 2012, 06:41:10 PM
Other minor light changes - I see. 2nd view lost shade on that front side.
Made it lighter - I see. Shaded sides are lighter. I don't see more.
I made it lighter beacuse, well, it's 96comic.

One question: Is the vehicle's name Vagony Nakladni Ropa? Is Nakladni a type or the name?

Václav

#14
Ropa is czech name for loaded cargo, generally it is CATEGORY_03 (raw oil or so on - excepting liquid foods)
NakladniVagon is only general type of car - in english it is freight car

Originally it is part of train I called Arboria (for its colour). Soon I will rework another freight cars of this set that were prepared for such goods that are also in pak96.comic.

So full name can be VMaX_Arboria_RawOil. Of course you may add yourself to line of copyright.

So, at first I will rework Arboria - but only to be freight EMU. Helios will get own engine. Strato will get new engine. And passenger and post cars of Arboria will get new colour, own engine - and of course, new name.



Small but very important question:
Does pak96.comic use both sets of images (empty and freight)?

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

An_dz

Yes, if you need to make a freight variation.

Václav

#16
... of course when coal waggon has to have both sets of images ...

... my question might be added of everywhere. Because all waggons where it is possible (it means excepting tank waggons) I prepared both sets of images.

So waggons for palleted (piece) goods would have both sets of images too - aside of such ones like ones for coal or wood - regardless of somewhere only one difference is in closed/open door.

But I have to find better colour for easy identifying of class of waggon for piece goods.

Currently used identifications colours are (as it is taken from pak128 where are some other goods that are included into following list):

stripe on bottom of waggon (as is visible on originally published images):

orange - cars (cars have to be changed)
light violet - concrete
light ocre - steel
green - wood
light yellow - agro (that is not in group of piece goods)
dark brown - bulk goods
light blue - cooled goods
brown - piece goods

colours tanks:
green - oil
grey - cement
light blue - milk

Surely that pak96.comic has only few goods at this time but ...



For the first time, I decided to publish full sources - it means also with original files of software I use - for case that somebody could use it. Here are sources of waggons for raw oil - and recently also for piece goods*.

* Its name will be VMaX_Arboria_PieceGoods.

In attachment can be found two archives - file of waggons for piece goods (NakladniVagon_KusoveZbozi_96.zip) and for raw oil (NakladniVagon_Rope_96.zip).



And waggons got the first locomotive - but at this time it is middle locomotive - for super power - for very long trains. So in attachment appeared zip file Lokomotiva_Arboria_Doplnkova_96.zip. Its name will be VMaX_Arboria_MiddleLocomotive.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

An_dz

Bulk good wagon have 2 lines of graphics, are they empty and full versions?

Václav

#18
Yes - those lines are empty and full. But it is not for bulk goods (coal, sand ... and so on) but for piece/palletted goods (olives, electronics, vegetables). And of course, I hope that you can identify what is full and what is empty.



I slowly work on main locomotive of Arboria.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

An_dz

#19
Yeah, I typed one thing and thought another.

And I made some changes in your graphics, specially in alignment.

I'm attaching the source and the compiled files.

I'll wait for the front engine to compile the middle locomotive

Václav

Quote from: An_dz on August 30, 2012, 07:28:14 PM
And I made some changes in your graphics, specially in alignment.
I see that you re-coloured roof. I originally thought about roof lighter that walls. But may it be.
In alignment? I know that it could be too high. So I hope that you re-aligned them after testing in game.

Quote from: An_dz on August 30, 2012, 07:28:14 PM
I'm attaching the source and the compiled files.
What about some basic information about them? Speed, intro year (retire year), capacity.
And ... I said that waggon for raw oil should be called VMaX_Arboria_RawOil.

Quote from: An_dz on August 30, 2012, 07:28:14 PM
I'll wait for the front engine to compile the middle locomotive
Why? Middle locomotive would be better if it will be placed between freight cars - similarily to american super heavy freight trains. It is my idea. But placing directly behind main locomotive is possible too, of course.

In attachment is preview - in west-east direction. After re-assembling in GIMP lights will be a little better, I hope.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

An_dz

#21
Quote from: VaclavMacurek on August 30, 2012, 08:22:19 PM
And ... I said that waggon for raw oil should be called VMaX_Arboria_RawOil.
Sorry, I forgot it. Fixed now.

Quote from: VaclavMacurek on August 30, 2012, 08:22:19 PM
I see that you re-coloured roof. I originally thought about roof lighter that walls. But may it be.
Ok, lighter then.

Quote from: VaclavMacurek on August 30, 2012, 08:22:19 PM
In alignment? I know that it could be too high. So I hope that you re-aligned them after testing in game.
Yes I tested several times.

Quote from: VaclavMacurek on August 30, 2012, 08:22:19 PM
What about some basic information about them? Speed, intro year (retire year), capacity.
Speed: 150km/h
Introduction: August 1970
Oil wagon
Price: 92.000,00
Running cost: 3,10
Payload: 105m³
Piece Good
Price: 65.000,00
Running cost: 3,00
Payload: 95 boxes
Middle Locomotive
Price: 70.000,00
Running cost: 5,30
Power: 1700kW
Main Locomotive
Price: 120.000,00
Running cost: 12,40
Power: 2300kW

Balanced them taking account the other vehicles and their introduction dates.

Quote from: VaclavMacurek on August 30, 2012, 08:22:19 PM
Why? Middle locomotive would be better if it will be placed between freight cars - similarily to american super heavy freight trains. It is my idea. But placing directly behind main locomotive is possible too, of course.
Ah, ok then, I didn't knew about it.



Edit:Sources now available at 96comic Repository

Václav

Quote from: An_dz on August 30, 2012, 11:02:55 PM
Quote from: VaclavMacurek on August 30, 2012, 08:22:19 PM
And ... I said that waggon for raw oil should be called VMaX_Arboria_RawOil.
Sorry, I forgot it. Fixed now.
If game translation in english and other languages excepting my native will be different, I could not do anything - but I hope that this (this taxonomy/nomenclature including name of unit and factory  ???) would lead to translations that will be more meaningful.

Quote from: An_dz on August 30, 2012, 11:02:55 PM
Ok, lighter then.
Thanks.

Quote from: An_dz on August 30, 2012, 11:02:55 PM
Speed: 150km/h
Introduction: August 1970
Isn't year 1970 too early for such high speed - for freight transports? But may it be that my knowledge of this issue is short.

Quote from: An_dz on August 30, 2012, 11:02:55 PM
Oil wagon
Price: 92.000,00
Running cost: 3,10
Payload: 105m³
Piece Good
Price: 65.000,00
Running cost: 3,00
Payload: 95 boxes
Middle Locomotive
Price: 70.000,00
Running cost: 5,30
Power: 1700kW
Main Locomotive
Price: 120.000,00
Running cost: 12,40
Power: 2300kW
Hard to say anything against this balancing. So I hope that you set it on such level that earning money will be possible - but not easy.

Quote from: An_dz on August 30, 2012, 11:02:55 PM
I didn't know about it.
Nobody is perfect.  ;)

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

An_dz

Quote from: VaclavMacurek on August 31, 2012, 07:08:36 PM
Isn't year 1970 too early for such high speed - for freight transports? But may it be that my knowledge of this issue is short.
I thought so, but on pak128 there's one with 160km/h. And the timeline matches nicely right now.
Quote from: VaclavMacurek on August 31, 2012, 07:08:36 PM
Hard to say anything against this balancing. So I hope that you set it on such level that earning money will be possible - but not easy.
I haven't tested much, needs more testing. I want to wait for the main locomotive for better balancing.

Václav

#24
Quote from: An_dz on September 01, 2012, 01:15:55 AM
I thought so, but on pak128 there's one with 160km/h.
Cooled waggon - for frozen goods. I know.

Quote from: An_dz on September 01, 2012, 01:15:55 AM
I haven't tested much, needs more testing. I want to wait for the main locomotive for better balancing.
Don't worry. May it be that tonight (or sooner) it will be ready - from my side.



As I wrote at the morning, about time of readiness of main locomotive of Arboria, here it is - behind this link. I had to upload it there because it is too large. Orders for download are as often - click on Stáhnout, rewrite text from picture and click on Stáhnout.



... but Arboria is not complete when waggons for bulk goods (coal, iron ore, grain) and rod goods (wood, steel) are missing in set. Making of the first of them is in process.



So, as I wrote, I did - here is waggon for bulk goods. For size of archive, it had to be uploaded to the same place as main locomotive - and download orders are the same (written above).

EmptyImage is in the last line - and order of loaded goods (in order from EmptyImage to the top) is: iron ore, coal, sand, uranium ore, grain. Object name will be: VMaX_Arboria_BulkGoods.



And here is waggon for bar goods. I had to find such name for those goods when steel is under that group of goods - together with wood. And bar goods is the best I found. So object name of waggon will be VMaX_Arboria_BarGoods.

EmptyImage is in the last line - and order of loaded goods (in order from EmptyImage to the top) is: wooden logs, wooden boards, steel.

Download orders as often.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

An_dz

#25
Download Arboria Set

Finished, I think the balancing is good. I've created a convoy with Main, Rear and Middle locomotives pulling 6 liquid wagons (heaviest) and it can run at max speed loaded.

The Stats:
All vehicles
Speed: 150km/h
Intro: August 2010 (Changed due to style/speed)
Lenght: 12

Main Locomotive
Cost: 120.000,00¢
Running Cost: 12,40¢
Power: 3.050kW
Weight: 85t

Rear Locomotive
Cost: 120.000,00¢
Running Cost: 12,40¢
Power: 3.050kW
Weight: 85t

Middle Locomotive
Cost: 70.000,00¢
Running Cost: 6,30¢
Power: 3.700kW
Weight: 75t

Liquids Wagon
Cost: 92.000,00¢
Running Cost: 3,10¢
Payload: 105
Weight: 25t

Packed Goods Wagon
Cost: 65.000,00¢
Running Cost: 3,00¢
Payload: 95
Weight: 30t

Bulk Goods Wagon
Cost: 85.000,00¢
Running Cost: 3,00¢
Payload: 90
Weight: 27t

Bar Goods Wagon
Cost: 40.000,00¢
Running Cost: 2,50¢
Payload: 35
Weight: 22t

Image and Download Links:

Václav

Thanks. Which of two wagons is really for bulk goods - with maintenance 3¢ or that with 2,5¢. It is riddle for night. I think that one of them should be written "bar goods wagon". And I think that the second of them is that one what should be written "bar goods wagon". Or am I wrong?

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

An_dz

You're right.

Copy Paste problem :)

Václav

I downloaded sources from your GIT repository - and improved dat of Arboria set a little.

I added constraints. Why? Because I am worried about that with re-sizing (not from pak128 to pak96) of vehicles of this set (originally they were a little larger and longer) they lost width compatibility with other vehicles. But also I am not sure if they were compatible before. I prepared it to stand alone - and so I did not pay attention to width.

In this version Arboria is coded to stand alone. There is possibility of type diversity* inside one train (it is possible to carry all four types of goods in one train) - but waggons cannot be pulled/pushed by else locomotives.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

An_dz

Change accepted, will update when decide the SVN/GIT.

Václav

#30
I began creation of tram - tram that will can carry not only passengers but also post and palleted goods. Urbanica (name of tram, based on latin word urbis - city) is based on FreightTram for pak128.

But I decided to do few changes:
1: Front part - only for passengers (Urbanica will always carry passengers)
2: Length - fixed (unit will be assembled of front part, one middle part and rear part)
3: Middle part and rear part - middle part and rear part will carry the same (Urbanica will carry passengers and post or passengers and palleted goods)

Sense of post parts:
- to decrease amount of post that is transported by trucks

Sense of freight parts:
- to create better connection between some producers and consumers, if they are too close to each other also for trucks (not only trains)
- to create better connection between some producers and consumers, if building of road connection is not possible (and tram track is already built)



From attachment you may download test version of Urbanica.

Known bugs:
wrong diagonal image lengths (will be corrected)
wrong base lengths (here I don't understand it - I tested length twice - but something causes terrible spaces between parts)

So, I decided to place to attachment also source files (regardless of it is not final version). I hope that somebody will find what causes those terrible spaces between parts in base direction - while lengths are right.

And re-alignment is not needed (I hope).

And of course, aside of matter of this, you can search for better colour.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Václav

#31
There is still wrong alignment of middle part - but it is something I cannot correct when I am not sure if it is on my side or elsewhere. Middle part is aligned to center of tile like other ones. It makes me confused. I could try to re-align it with additional alignment coded in dat file - but I am not sure with result (if it would not cause worse alignment).

In attachment is archive of playable files - and here is full source.

Cars are a little lowered, windows and doors got else size and alignment, rear post car got window on rear side.

Also there is else balancing and a little more free constraints.
Price is the same (250 000).
Running costs were changed (front and rear parts 1,5; middle part 1,0).
Power was lowered (to 250 kW - from 500 kW)
Now unit may be assembled (with the same number of parts) from:
1. passengers+passengers+passengers
2. passengers+passengers+post
3. passengers+passengers+freight
4. passengers+post+post
5. passengers+freight+freight

I hope that very high price is right way of balancing of low running costs - that allows to earn money a little easier - but when tram has not anything to transport, you may wait money losing too (but it will not be so high).

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Václav

#32
Some time passed - and I prepared one another tram - Pontica.

Its name is based on latin word pons - bridge. You can understand it like a bridge between tram and train - you may find meaning of this in following lines.
Its shape is based on Urbanica (it is the same shape - only electricity receivers have been shifted to rear).

Top speed: 150 km/h.
Price: 500 000 per part
Running costs: 1,5 for middle parts, 2,25 for front and back parts
Intro year: 2010

It has variable constraints - you can combine create any unit you want from its nine parts.
Each of three parts (frontl, middle and back) have been in version for passengers, post and paletted cargo = nine parts.



But I also changed Urbanica a little. Some parts got a bit different capacity - and it got retire year: 2011 (so you have one year for replacement of all Urbanica trams)

In attachment you can find PNG and DAT files for both trams.



And in attachment is preview for supersonic plane with development name Restharrow. Name may be changed. Later it will be a little greater. Mostly it needs better colours.



.. I little played with dat files- and managed to Urbanice and Pontica have right alignment in basic directions - and a little better alignment in diagonal directions.

New version of dat files of both trams are in attachment.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Václav

As message's head says, I created one new tram and also finished Urbanica and Pontica.

Headlines hide link to full sources of each tram - but in attachment are archives with PNG and DAT.
Below headline is main description of each tram.

Solitera (solitair - standing alone)
Price: 100 000
Running cost: 0,75
Speed: 50
Intro year: 1900
Retire year: 1951
Capacity of passengers: 25
Capacity of post/cargo: 12
Number of parts: 1

Urbanica (urbis - city in latin language)
Price: 250 000 per part
Running cost: front/back: 1,5; middle: 1
Speed: 100
Intro year: 1950
Retire year: 2001
Capacity of passengers: front: 26; middle: 32; back: 45
Capacity of post/cargo: middle: 16; back: 24
Number of parts: 5
Variability of length of unit: no

Pontica (pons - bridge in latin language)
Price: 500 000 per part
Running cost: front/back: 2,25; middle: 1,5
Speed: 150
Intro year: 2000
Capacity of passengers: front: 26; middle: 32; back: 45
Capacity of post/cargo: front: 14; middle: 16; back: 24
Number of parts: 9
Variability of length of unit: yes

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Václav

#34
And one another rail vehicles - currently metro trains.
In attachment is archive with DAT and PNG. Headline hide link to full source.

Amphibia (amphibious - living in two worlds)
Price: 500 000 per part
Running cost: front/back: 1,5; middle: 1,0
Speed: 100
Intro year: 1950
Retire year: 2001
Capacity of passengers: front/back: 38; middle: 32
Capacity of post: front/back: 19; middle: 16
Number of parts: 6
Variability of length of unit: yes

Varieta (variety)
Price: 1 000 000 per part
Running cost: front/back/long middle: 1,5; short middle: 1
Speed: 100
Intro year: 2000
Capacity of passengers: front/back: 38; long middle: 48; short middle: 32
Capacity of post: front/back: 19; long middle: 24; short middle: 16
Number of parts: 8
Variability of length of unit: yes

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní