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Author Topic: desert house; attempt no. 1  (Read 15142 times)

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Offline Roads

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desert house; attempt no. 1
« on: October 04, 2012, 07:56:25 AM »
*sigh* I wanted a little level 2-3 house for the desert.  Comments welcome!  Be brutal if you must!  :-[




BTW, it looks worse in game than it does here... 


Modify:  Okay, somehow version 1.0 got replaced with version 2.0...will explain new version in later post just to avoid confusion.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 09:55:00 AM by Roads »

Offline Fabio

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2012, 08:23:53 AM »
Not bad as a first attempt!

Now the notes:

- Texture is too grainy and the eastern (right) wall should be actually more shaded. You can try the two texture I attach here.

- Window color (well, windows will come in nice later!)

- Those beams and the door should IMHO be more brownish

- As an idea, not necessarily for this very building, two (or more) small houses can be arranged together in the same tile, leaving less empty space and giving more the feeling of a poorer town area.



As I gather this is for Pak128, I'm moving the thread there. This board is more for general and cross-pakset discussion.

Offline Roads

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2012, 08:46:21 AM »
Thanks Fabio, I've downloaded them and will see what I can do.

Offline Sarlock

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2012, 02:31:57 PM »
Great start, Roads!
All of Fabio's comments are great.  The shading of the east side will make a big difference in how it looks, it'll give it more dimension.
I'd add that maybe something can be added to the roof... a small TV antenna or something along those lines.  Since it's a flat roof and accounts for a good portion of the image, breaking it up a bit might help.
Once you add things to the ground it will help as well.  A couple of rocks maybe, or a cactus or scrub brush.  The open section on the south side would be a good candidate to have something overlap it a bit.
Can't wait to see version 2.0!

Offline greenling

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2012, 06:06:41 PM »

Offline sdog

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2012, 08:01:06 PM »
- As an idea, not necessarily for this very building, two (or more) small houses can be arranged together in the same tile, leaving less empty space and giving more the feeling of a poorer town area.
Wlindley's approach might be rather sensible here, where he creates a large number of buildings from a couple of pre-manufactured parts.

Offline Roads

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2012, 01:50:02 AM »
Thank you Sarlock!  I was not expecting so much positive feeback.  The things you said will help.  I doubt there will be an antenna as I pretty much place them in the same category as power lines - a necessary evil. :)
I have some ideas and hopefully some of them will work.  2.0 is coming but will likely be a couple or 3-4 days as I'm keeping up with the c++ tut as well.  I did this while trying to absorb passing an array to a function with a pointer.  It is not a perfect world.  Games should be complex and programming simple but that is just not how it works.

Terrific sign, greenling!  It made me grin from ear to ear.  Thank you!

Good idea, sdog.  I like houses in this style and would like several in game if possible.

Offline Roads

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2012, 09:57:30 AM »
As you can see the new version of my little desert house is in post number 1.  Comments welcome!

Here is a story, it is not great but the best I can do for now:

Quote
The young couple who lives here spends a lot of time on the roof laying in the sun.  Their name is keuxibybyrhottleoppeleweby but everyone calls them Mr. and Mrs. Brown.  So far there are no Brown children.

Offline Fabio

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2012, 10:42:59 AM »
Well, those gears on the roof are way too bright. The ceiling beams are still greenish, IMHO they should be definitely brown, a dark brown.
The windows have a wrong color, too. Finally, the cactus is nice, but its placement could be better, like a tad to the left.
Sorry for the criticism!

Offline mEGa

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2012, 01:22:19 PM »
I'm agree with Fabio. And another suggestion :
If guys can go on roof you must draw how they can (scale or stairs, may be...).

suggestions of accessories on roof :
- a engine of air conditioning ? Rather simple to draw: a rectangular box...

Offline Roads

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2012, 08:09:04 PM »
Thanks for the feedback guys.

Those are not gears, they are air mattresses.  I had thought the color would make that readily identifiable but obviously it did not.  Since it is such an unusual thing, it probably just looks odd to most players.

Not sure what to do about the windows but I can't do anything about the beams.  I'm too color blind to see any green about them at all = any color I choose could very possibly be even more green.  I'm going to take mEGa's suggestion about the cactus and replace it with a ladder.

While I did want to contribute if I could, it looks like my color blindness will make that impossible.  I'll just have to contribute in other ways. 

Offline Fabio

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2012, 09:17:34 PM »
Dear pal, the best way to deal with colors and textures is IMHO copying them from other existing buildings.  In your shoes I would do the following: find a good quality building with wooden parts recognizable as such; sample a pixel with appropriate brightness; paint your beams solid color (for the shaded parts make it 20% darker); select the painted region and apply an HSV noise filter (if you use gimp leave the default settings of the tool). You'll end up with a nice texture which, more importantly, will be consistent with the rest of the pakset. I often do like this, because colors are not important per se, but related to the other pakset objects. No mater how people see it, if wood has the same color all over the pakset, they'll immediately recognize it as wood. Same applies to windows (also kept solid color).

I'm sorry great was a misleading term, I meant "stuff". But the point is I didn't recognize it as a mattress.

Please keep on trying, your dedication is very important. Starting to paint is painful, you believe you did something great and then people start criticizing you. It's hard to adjust, but once you do it, it's rewarding.

Offline Roads

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2012, 10:11:24 PM »
Many thanks Fabio!

Will get back to you.  My cat has woke up and is hungry!!!

Modify:  Fabio, I'll take your advice and look for a building that I think is either brown or has brown on it.  I don't know what an HSV noise filter is.  I'm using PhotoFiltre, should I download gimp?

In most of the areas of my life the color blindness is no problem, it is generally just something like my memory the kids joke about.  For example, the last couple of things that happened:  My oldest son drove home this year from Houston in a new second vehicle he had bought.  He asked how I liked his new van and I told him I thought it was pretty color of green.  He said, "Dad, it's purple."  Recently I asked my youngest son what color my shirt was and he said, "dark gray."  I asked if it looked okay with the green pants I was wearing and he said, "the pants are gray too."

You have however, given me a way to deal with this problem and I will try.

Now for the criticism thing...if an artist cannot get and accept honest criticism, he likely will never improve or improve very slowly and never reach his full potential.  That said, it is a little like a mother hearing someone say her baby is ugly.  So both artist and critic are in an awful position but there is no way around it.  It is simply a fact of life.

BTW, I have replaced the cactus, added mEGa's idea of a ladder and the ladder looks good IMHO.  I'll replace the mattress with an air unit or something, search for a color for the beams and get the window color as well.  The building seems to look fine in game but kind of out of place. I'm thinking the color is just too different from the other colors used in game.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 11:51:40 PM by Roads »

Offline mEGa

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2012, 01:06:50 PM »
Modify:  Fabio, I'll take your advice and look for a building that I think is either brown or has brown on it.  I don't know what an HSV noise filter is.  I'm using PhotoFiltre, should I download gimp?

I think you can use tool of Photofiltre named 'noise' (main menu -> filter -> noise) and choose 'add noise'. Choose 30 % and test your texture created.
You have however, given me a way to deal with this problem and I will try.
Sorry, but for me (if I had this problem and very well understood your previous post) it would be a real handicap I mean... How to by-pass the color-blindness when we are an artist..? To make only of the black and white drawings ?
Perhaps could you not to contribute to pak96.HD ?
Finally I meam you're meriting and brave. Hats off! (I Hope I translate very well what I mean)

Offline greenling

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2012, 01:52:37 PM »
Roads
that you are Colorblind it,that was for my a big shock .
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 02:00:12 PM by greenling »

Offline Roads

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2012, 05:27:55 PM »
mEGa,

Yes, I understood every thing you said.  Your English is good.  I had not thought of looking on the main menu for filter.  Thank you!

The color blindness is a problem but mine is not a severe case.  With the exception of purple, I can see all the basic colors.  There are a few shades of purple I have seen but 90% of the time it is blue to me.  My trouble is shades of color, maybe I should say color intensity.  I'm sure when you look at the game you see a lot more colors than I do but it is still colorful to me, not just black and white.

Greenling,

Thank you.  I'm trying to use the paint package like I did real paint.  That is, I know what mixtures makes green, purple, etc., on a palette so with the package, I pick a color I'm as sure of as possible and use the spray can to make a palette.  As I get more familiar with the package, maybe I can develop more and better techniques.

Offline sdog

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2012, 04:54:22 AM »
I think you're coping rather well with it in this project. With a little feedback from the forum it is fixed quickly. The matresses on the roof became clear after reading the description, but what was misleading is the size. When you compare them with the doors it becomes obvious.

If you resize them to 80% of the size of a door, desaturate them a little*, and perhaps have some light, slightly saturated colour shine through at the top (the bedsheets showing below pillow and blankets) it'll becom more recognizable. I like the idea of having beds on the roof.

*just a little, they ought to be much more colourful than any part of building.

Offline Roads

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2012, 05:15:22 AM »
sdog, I was thinking air mattresses.  They are often colorful and that's the reason there is no bedding.  Desaturation sounds like a great idea.  I'll try that and making them smaller.  I think it is more obvious what they are with the ladder.

Although not as popular as it used to be, most people, especially people in their early 30's and younger around here often spent a lot of time outside getting tanned.  Most go to tanning salons now.  Tanned is still very popular and it is a compliment if someone tells you, "you are very brown."  I was attempting to poke a little fun at that but perhaps the story would not be understood internationally and should be dropped.

Offline ӔO

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2012, 05:34:37 AM »
maybe a rainbow coloured or striped  tanning bed?

or a small fence?

Offline sdog

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2012, 05:48:22 AM »
Ah, i thought it's for sleeping outside, which is often done in hot climate zones. To avoid the much hotter interior when sleeping. Wouldn't imagine anyone living in such a house would go out into the sun. That's mostly a stupidity only of tourists from rich industrial nations :-)

I indeed did not get the part of the browns without your explanation.

Offline Roads

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2012, 10:56:56 AM »
Well guys, here is attempt number 3.  It was easier just to start from scratch than re-work the old one.  I may have just introduced new problems but this is still a learning experience.  Comments welcome!






Modify:  Wow!  I just noticed.  I'm a devotee now?  Thank you!

Offline mEGa

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2012, 01:37:48 PM »
Modify:  Wow!  I just noticed.  I'm a devotee now?  Thank you!
Congrats !
About building v3. Much better !
I think this is just a sketch made with Blender ? And you must improve effect with 2D editor (Photofiltre ?) I don't know what lines on roof are. Timber structure ? If they are, I mean that it's a little too thick regard to extremities going out of the wall.

Offline Fabio

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2012, 01:48:35 PM »
Welcome to the Devotees group, Roads!

I like this new sketch, it's really nice. You should work now on the lighting, as the sun should come from plain South instead of South-East like it seems now.

Offline Sarlock

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2012, 02:40:50 PM »
Very nice!  The colour choice is great, I like the slanted roof on the bay window.

Agreed about the lighting, it should be shining from the south which is bottom left from the tile (shining straight on to the bottom left side from about 60 degrees up in the sky).

Offline greenling

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2012, 04:40:34 PM »
roads
this building it nice.

Offline Roads

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2012, 05:17:00 PM »
Thanks everyone!

So the lightest part should be the little offset or just the entire left side?  My thinking was the lightest part should be the parts closest to you.  I did it all with PhotoFiltre and used the gradient for the lighting.  Is the contrast between light and dark enough?  Sorry for the questions, I just want to get a better handle on the lighting.

I think the offset is too far to the left but was thinking I might put mEGa's ladder on the windowless part but now there's no reason to go upon the roof.  BTW mEGa, that's supposed to be the beams partially exposed on the roof.  Maybe make them the same color as when they come through the wall?  Also I could cover them up entirely.  Lots of stuff to think about and play with. :)

I'm really happy y'all like the color.  I like it better as well and it looks better with the desert climate.

Offline Fabio

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2012, 05:31:07 PM »
For reference to light settings, you can check out this link: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=782.msg7934#msg7934

Offline Roads

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2012, 05:41:36 PM »
Thanks Fabio, that was helpful.  I was still in canvas painting mode where you generally use light and dark shading not only to show the sun lighting up surfaces but to bring them closer or set them farther back.  As is obvious, lighter objects appear closer to you, darker sets them farther back. 

Offline Roads

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2012, 02:03:35 PM »
Well guys, here is attempt number 4.  Maybe the shading is okay.  This one is solid color and I actually like the gradient better but the thing that is more important is that it fit in with existing graphics.  Hopefully this one will.







Offline Fabio

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2012, 02:19:58 PM »
Much better now!
The solid color can be textured, either using an existing texture and the bucket fill tool, either using the noise tools (better HSV noise) on the walls.
The roof beams should be antialiased a bit, you can manually add px 25-50% of the beam color in order to have a smoother line.

Offline mEGa

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2012, 02:45:30 PM »
BTW mEGa, that's supposed to be the beams partially exposed on the roof.  Maybe make them the same color as when they come through the wall?  Also I could cover them up entirely.  Lots of stuff to think about and play with. :)
Much better now!
The solid color can be textured, either using an existing texture and the bucket fill tool, either using the noise tools (better HSV noise) on the walls.
The roof beams should be antialiased a bit, you can manually add px 25-50% of the beam color in order to have a smoother line.
Fabio said everything.He was faster than me ;D

Offline Roads

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2012, 02:48:41 PM »
Guys, I have the HSV noise on the walls set at 20%.  Not sure how to fix the beams.  They are only one to two pixels wide.  Should I change the color of one of the pixels, make them wider...sorry for the hand holding but any help will be greatly appreciated.

Offline mEGa

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2012, 02:58:56 PM »
Just use antialiasing method : apply 50% of clearest color of beam
See my example (only 2 front beamers of the view are modified)
 

Offline Sarlock

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2012, 03:25:37 PM »
mEGa's got it right.  It's just a case of averaging out the colour difference between the two sections (beam and roof) and distributing that colour along the beam.  It takes some practice to get it looking right, but if you look at other objects that have been drawn you'll figure the system out pretty fast.  Some noise on the texture and I'd say that house is about done... just a few yard items and it's finished.

Offline Roads

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2012, 03:33:53 PM »
Thank you mEGa!  I understand.  I'll upload when I'm done.

Thanks for the thumbs up Sarlock and advice.  Hope the many things you are working on are coming along well.  I know they will be good!


Modify:  Well, here it is...






« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 03:55:15 PM by Roads »

Offline greenling

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2012, 06:09:15 PM »
Roads
This building looks very nice out.

Offline Roads

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2012, 06:36:10 AM »
Greenling, you are always encouraging.  Thank you.


I did one more change...the beams.  The spacing from the walls bothered me.  I think it looks better now.




Modify:  After placing this in game, some of the bottom edges need to be cleaned up...
I did that for my game but didn't think it required a new upload at this point...



« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 08:35:40 AM by Roads »

Offline mEGa

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2012, 09:17:49 AM »
Better and better. You 're going well.

Offline Fabio

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2012, 10:01:22 AM »
It looks great! :thumbsup:

Now I would just add a bit of contrast to the windows and the door, but this is up to tastes ;)

Offline Roads

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2012, 12:24:29 PM »
Many thanks guys!

"splain, Ricky, splain!!!"  Sorry I couldn't resist doing the old "I Love Lucy" thing.  Fabio, I don't understand what you mean.  I'll think about what you said though, maybe it will come to me.

Offline Roads

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2012, 07:57:19 AM »
After thinking about this for a couple days and adding a walk and fence, I think I'm done.  Here is a screenshot and a copy of all the original files if you want to put it in pak128.  I would like that very much but if y'all decide it doesn't work, then no worries.  All I can do is make an offer to contribute and if not this one, maybe some other later on.  I appreciate all the help very much and if it is not wanted for the pak I still have it in my game.







http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/building.dlo_res.pak
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/dlo_res.dat
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/dlo_res_final.png


If there is something y'all need to change, I have no problem with that or with sharing credit for changes.  If there is something y'all still need me to change, please say so and I will try.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 08:30:30 AM by Roads »

Offline Fabio

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2012, 08:57:10 AM »
I wonder if buildings for hot climates should have snow on the roofs as well.
Honestly, I would like so, at least for new buildings, in case the winter snow line is set specially low.
I would like to hear opinions on the subject.

Offline mEGa

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2012, 09:29:37 AM »
I wonder if buildings for hot climates should have snow on the roofs as well.
Honestly, I would like so, at least for new buildings, in case the winter snow line is set specially low.
I would like to hear opinions on the subject.
I'm agree with your suggestion. I try to explain... Sometimes in desert area it can snow like in Desert Gobi for example...
So if the line of snow is high, the roof will never be covered with snow (and winter view will never appear)... And if gamer wants a low snow line for create a cold desert land (desert Gobi...), the snow will be in winter and roof will be covered by snow !

Offline greenling

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2012, 06:24:38 PM »
Roads
Thank you for this modell.

Offline Roads

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Re: desert house; attempt no. 1
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2012, 11:32:53 PM »
Greenling,

You are very welcome, glad you like it. :)