Started by dennosius, December 30, 2012, 07:04:12 PM
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Express: A--------DLocal: A--B--C--D
Quote from: kierongreen on December 30, 2012, 08:41:14 PMThe reason this was chosen was to deal with the following situation:
Quote from: prissi on December 30, 2012, 10:18:28 PMBut if passengers accumulate, then capacity is missing between C and D, no matter what. In such cases always passenger will accumulate.
Quote from: Sarlock on December 30, 2012, 10:29:58 PMYour easiest solution would be an express train from C to E that skips station D.
Quote from: Fifty on December 31, 2012, 01:10:32 AMIf you put a wait for load on the B-C-D-C Train at station C, you should be fine:
/-E--F--G--HA--B--C--D--Airport<--I-/ \-J \-K
Waiting D Waiting E Travelling D Travelling E200 50 300 75 400 100 100 125 400 200 150 300 175 400 200 100 25 400 200200 50 300 75 400 100 100 125 400 200 150 300 175 400 200 100 25 400 200
Waiting D Waiting E Travelling D Travelling E300 50 400 75 500 100 100 125 500 200 150 300 175 400 200 200 25 300 200300 50 400 75 500 100 100 125 500 200 150 300 175 400 200 200 25 300 200
300 50 400 75 500 100 100 125 500 200 150 300 175 400 200 100 125 400 100200 150 300 175 400 200 100 225 400 200 250 300 275 400 300 100 225 400 100
300 116 400 141 500 166 100 191 500 200 216 300 241 400 266 200 91 300 200300 116 400 141 500 166 100 191 500
Quote from: kierongreen on December 31, 2012, 06:35:10 PMIn summary - the existing code works as long as you are flexible on the length of each train (or are willing to tolerate empty capacity on some services). Proportional loading is more robust at balancing loads across trains, but at the expense of more waiting passengers in some situations.
Quote from: Roads on January 01, 2013, 02:51:03 PMNot to be smart alecky - not meaning to be at all - but for me the best course of action in a game as complex as Simutrans is to look at all possibilities that exist - not what you would like it to be. Sometimes you will find something even more interesting than you originally had in mind.
QuoteI just want to have a realistic simulation.
QuoteSorry to say, but your calculation is right only in theory under lab conditions.
Quote from: kierongreen on January 01, 2013, 09:25:43 PMI thought ages writing a reply but I realised there really wasn't any point trying to convince you. Even taking into account proportional loading being more flexible it's still debatable whether it is better overall than first-stop-loading. You think it is, but for example, circular lines most definitely would be adversely affected by proportional loading.
QuoteActually if you have sufficient excess capacity then any loading strategy is fine, it's only when you have little or no excess capacity you run into problems. So the simplest option for you is to increase capacity on the line.
Quote2) Change to proportional loading, if someone codes it
Quote3) Have an option in simuconf
Quote from: kierongreen on January 01, 2013, 10:10:40 PMSimutrans has no way of determining which line passengers or goods should be routed over.
Quote from: Ters on January 02, 2013, 02:05:27 PMAnother con is increased processing demands, perhaps also memory.
Quote from: Iluvalar on January 02, 2013, 09:32:36 PMWe already have distance and maximum speed avalaible on a per convoy basis. The remaining must be already polled to figure the pax that jump into the train.As I conceive it, it would demand only a couple more multiplications. I dont believe it would be anything as demanding as the pathfinding itself or such.
Quote from: kierongreen on January 01, 2013, 10:42:03 PMHops is number of transfers, not number of stations passed through.
# Max number of steps in goods pathfinding# This should be equal or greater than the biggest group# of interconnected stations in your game.## If you set it too low, some goods might not find a route# if the route is too complex. If you set it too high, the# search will take a lot of CPU power, particularly if searches# often fail because there is no route.## Depending on your CPU power, you might want to limit the search# depth.max_hops = 2000# Passengers and goods will change vehicles at most "max_transfer"# times to reach their destination.max_transfers = 9
Quote from: Ters on January 02, 2013, 06:47:39 PMMostly, but not strictly circular lines can have a stop twice, like A-B-C-D-C-E-A or A-B-C-D-E-F-C-G-A (figure . Do they benefit from circular logic, default logic, or something unique to them? There are lots of possible layouts that must be taken into account.
Quote from: kierongreen on December 31, 2012, 06:35:10 PMIf we go back to the original example, of two routes, one C-D and one C-D-E then we can calculate the optimum strategy for train services (you can skip to the end if you just want a summary).
Quote from: prissi on January 04, 2013, 04:16:14 PMIf you look at how real life works: People will try to get on whatever train goes first into their direction. Shear probability will result (in overcrowded situations) into something like "proportional loading". Thus I am no saying you are wrong, but this proportional loading will (in the far more common situation A-B-C-D-E and A-E) more likely produce the situation that local and express line are not treated differently, i.e. both loading mostly for E and A and starving intermediate stops.
Quote from: kierongreen on January 05, 2013, 02:13:43 AMIn simutrans passengers for a stop served by both local and express routes will get on the local train if there is capacity available.
Quote from: kierongreen on January 05, 2013, 02:13:43 AMI would suggest if you think proportional loading is a priority you create a working patch so that the benefits and drawbacks in gameplay and performance can be evaluated.
Quote from: prissi on January 06, 2013, 11:12:55 PMI still fail to see why proportional loading will work better in the A-B-C-D-E and A-C-E situation? It will starve at least B/D more of transport capacity than loading for next (B/D) first. Proportional loading is only required, if the busiest point is not the terminus of a line. However, most simutrans games I have every seen build automatically lines which terminate at major hubs.