Started by VS, January 05, 2013, 07:44:12 PM
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Quote from: Fabio on January 05, 2013, 10:32:41 PMI would also like to think of a different icon background (the button itself), as present one is good but a bit outdated in style (win98/xp legacy). Think of how MS Word toolbars changed over time.
Quote from: dennosius on January 11, 2013, 11:06:33 PMIcon design should be approached from usability aspects first and then from the aesthetic aspects....That's right. But modern icon style makes, for it's usability, use of 3D mouseover effects that we can't have in Simutrans (or can we?).
Quote from: dennosius on January 16, 2013, 03:05:22 PMSignalsSo icons could be useful, especially if we choose to introduce special signals for trams or narrow gauge some day.
QuoteThe icon bars take a lot of space already even on a 1920x1200 display, just due to the large amount of icons (I tend to have railway and road menu open almost all the time).
Quote from: DirrrtyDirk on January 16, 2013, 04:08:50 PMActually narrowgauge needs a complete signal set of its own, and these would be part of the separate narrowgauge menu, so no need for any special markings there (apart from overall background color or whatever is decided for the whole waytypes). Special tram signals should become part of the tram menu, so no need there either, IMHO.
QuoteAs of now, one can already create signals for tram in the dats and they already appear in the tram menu... unfortunately they don't work then. But I'd think as long a track and tram are compatible systems, it shouldn't be hard to code into the game, that tram signals work exactly like track signals, just be part of the other (=tram) menu...?
Quote from: dennosius on January 17, 2013, 10:25:32 AMI know they'd go into different waytype menus. Still, the functionality of the same signals is the same (a narrow-gauge one-way-signal works just as a tram one-way signal). So if the functionality of the signal is not clear from the signal image, an icon would IMHO be useful to easier identify the type of signal. So it's not to identify whether it's a tram or narrow-gauge signal, but to identify whether it's a one-way, platform-selection or regular signal. If we decide to introduce different looking signals for different waytypes, this would make sense IMHO.
Quote from: dennosius on January 17, 2013, 10:25:32 AMIsn't it possible to put signals defined as railway signals into the tram menu? They'd still work work for railways (and the other way round), but it would at least be possible to build different signals.
Quote from: prissi on January 17, 2013, 10:52:28 AMAn overground/underground symbol needs to be shown only in sliced mode, since otherwise the icon will be not shown anyway.
Quote from: prissi on January 17, 2013, 10:52:28 AMWhat is the ramp symbols in the lower left of VS proposal?
Quote from: prissi on January 17, 2013, 10:52:28 AMI do not think we need icons for stations versus extensions, as the graphics quite easily tell you what a station is (some way is visible) and what an extensions is (and both will show the pas, mail, good symbols too).
QuoteIf you want symbols for depots, halt, halt extensions, elevated ways, and so one, those can be also generated by a script from the actual source of the icon prior to paking, since these will never change during game (while pas, mail, goods depend on the simuconf.tab setting, as well as the command key).
QuoteAn overground/underground symbol needs to be shown only in sliced mode, since otherwise the icon will be not shown anyway. That will reduce the clutter of icons a lot for most situations. Thus this need also handling by the program.
QuoteWhat is the ramp symbols in the lower left of VS proposal?
Quote from: greenling on January 18, 2013, 09:15:03 AMHello on AllI think that all pakset need Submenüs for Rail,Road,Tram,Ships,Plans,Monorails,Station Ex tations.Here it a photo that show how many space be need the window, then install a addon out japan and that withoutTimeline. Those photo give the Size again they i use to play with simutrans on my laptop there two tool on theScreen with use. And that not all addons they i have install here in those photo.(Klich here, then the Photo not be show.)https://sites.google.com/site/000002expend/simscr06.png?attredirects=0
Quote from: ӔO on January 17, 2013, 07:09:48 PMColour blind users may find coloured icons to be confusing if they are not chosen correctly.
Quote from: dennosius on January 18, 2013, 07:00:54 AMAs we discussed before, background colours are not for finding an icon (so they don't have an identification function for the icon itself), but for identifying the icon bar, mainly in case a couple of icon bars are open already. Of course, if one just opened the railway icon bar, there's no need to indicate that the icon bar contains railway elements. But if there are several icon bars open, identifying them by the icons is hard, as icons look pretty similar on the first glance (esp. if we put more common subicons on them).
Quote from: dennosius on January 18, 2013, 05:36:13 PMIs that true? I mean, worse than the current all-grey icons?Non-colourblind people are, on the other hand, not trained to tell shades of a colour apart, and limiting the number of colours to two (blue and yellow) is probably not a real step forward in ergonomics. What I mean is: I really like the idea of barrier-free design, but not on the cost of loosing ergonomics for ordinary users if there's no win in ergonomics for colour-blinds on the other hand. In other words: An improvement should still be done if only ordinary people profit from it, unless it makes things even worse for colour-blinds than the current state.But coming back to my question whether it's good or not to use similar colours (i.e. shades of one colour) for all railway-like ways (narrow gauge, maglev, monorail) it may be a good compromise to answer this question with 'yes' and use (shades of) yellow (as blue is clearly intuitive for waterways) for those, so colourblind users take at least advantage of the majority of colours used.
Quote from: ӔO on January 18, 2013, 08:25:27 PMFrom an ergonomics stand point, colours aren't necessary for the icon background.
QuoteThe picture in it should be obvious enough already. i.e. a ship looks like a ship.
QuoteThe various toolbars you can open are already sorted as well. i.e. Tunnels are lumped together with tunnels, etc.
Quote from: dennosius on January 19, 2013, 01:26:39 AMThis discussion is becoming a bad example of open development Once everyone agreed we should use colours and then we discuss what colours, people start arguing we don't need colours.
Quote from: dennosius on January 19, 2013, 01:26:39 AMThis discussion is becoming a bad example of open development
Quote from: sdog on January 19, 2013, 03:16:00 AMI also would not consider this a bad example of an open development process either. The people who actually do the work, will pick the good ideas and develop them further or implement them.
Quote from: ӔO on January 18, 2013, 08:25:27 PMFrom an ergonomics stand point, colours aren't necessary for the icon background. The picture in it should be obvious enough already. i.e. a ship looks like a ship.
Quote from: VS on January 19, 2013, 11:51:46 AMFunny... Transport Tycoon can have only one way toolbar open at a time. Thus, it actually already wins in that aspect!
Quote from: DirrrtyDirk on January 17, 2013, 11:09:11 AMSure you can. But so far you can only add all of the railsignals there... or none of them*. And that's not really what I'd want in the end, since it would be the identical list as displayed in the track menu already. I'd prefer signals specially painted for tram that show up only in the tram menu (just like tram tracks, catenaries, depots and stations already do) - even if they could be placed and used on normal tracks (and vice versa) as well - or not. Whatever is easier to code.*) as long as you're planning to keep the menuconf.tab automatically showing all new signals as soon as they are added without having to add each one specifically to the menu (and I haven't yet tried if that is even possible)
Quote from: DirrrtyDirk on January 19, 2013, 07:05:22 PMNo, apparently you can only have all or none (at least I could not get anything else to work). To include all train signals into the tram menu, all you need to do is add (or change) a line in the tramtools section of menuconf.tab:Code Select Expandtoolbar=signs(2)It says signs(7) in the original line, but that would only display signals coded for tram - and these (while showing up correctly) don't work as such in game.
Quote from: sdog on January 20, 2013, 02:49:36 AMHow about a colour code for the toolbar title-bar?
Quote from: dennosius on January 23, 2013, 01:02:44 PMCan only icons in the main toolbar open new toolbars, or are nested sub-toolbars theoretically possible?