The International Simutrans Forum

 

Author Topic: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions  (Read 50796 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mEGa

  • 2D painter
  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1041
  • Pak128 graphics
    • mEGa_Simutrans
  • Languages: FR, EN, ru
Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« on: February 26, 2013, 04:13:04 PM »
Well,
A long time ago I ask me about uggly effect when ships are waiting near harbor terminal. Boats seems to enter through platform.
So i Decided to improve that by correcting pak :
platforms are now on background and mooring buoys mark location of stop point.
See the difference :
- left new template with mooring buoys (lightning by night)
- right : old set with boat into platform.
Notice : I designed also winter aspect with snow.

What are your thoughts ? Can I continue another harbor set ?

EDIT :
png file :
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 04:19:10 PM by mEGa »

Offline Combuijs

  • Web Team
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1406
  • Maintainer of maps.simutrans.com
    • Combuijs
  • Languages: EN, NL
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2013, 04:19:17 PM »
Very nice, but still ugly...  8)

The ship still seems to go through the roof of the loading area. Or am I interpreting the picture in the wrong way? You would like to have an open area there with only some mooring?

Offline mEGa

  • 2D painter
  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1041
  • Pak128 graphics
    • mEGa_Simutrans
  • Languages: FR, EN, ru
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2013, 04:28:52 PM »
Very nice, but still ugly...  8)

The ship still seems to go through the roof of the loading area. Or am I interpreting the picture in the wrong way? You would like to have an open area there with only some mooring?
Yes you're right for old pak... New pak is on left background with mooring buoys.
See new snapshot with explanation

Offline Combuijs

  • Web Team
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1406
  • Maintainer of maps.simutrans.com
    • Combuijs
  • Languages: EN, NL
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2013, 07:11:37 PM »
Ah, brilliant!

Did you change the .dat file as well? (Planning to copy this to my own pak...)

Offline Sarlock

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1340
  • Languages: EN
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2013, 07:52:02 PM »
Very nice idea!  It makes it look much more organized.

Offline Raiser

  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • Languages: DE, EN
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2013, 08:29:12 PM »
Hi mEGa, this is a very interesting aspect. I would support your idea. Maybe it would be nice to add docks on left and/or right?

I found this solution from MHZ:

Or this Pier from pak128 japan:


We definitely need more than the existing Harbour-Tools. I thought some time ago about some addons which are missing. There are some japanese addons, but i think there is much more potential in Harbour-Tools.


Ideas for example:

- Marina (Curiosity)
- Beach (Curiosity)
- Ship mooring
- Pier
- Buoyes (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=6893.msg66673#msg66673)
- Embankment
- Levee (Way)
- Container Harbour (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=10615.msg101677#msg101677)
- Harbour Buildings (Station Extensions)

Some Examples for Brainstorming:

Marina

Pier  

Simcity    

« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 10:59:01 PM by Raiser »

Offline greenling

  • Lounger
  • *
  • Posts: 1728
  • Simutransarchology it my hobby!
  • Languages: DE,EN
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2013, 08:49:49 PM »
Hello Mega
your work looks good out.
Excuse me how have the modern containercran bs download?

Offline Raiser

  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • Languages: DE, EN
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2013, 10:46:21 PM »
Excuse me how have the modern containercran bs download?

You can download it from japanese simutrans:

Port Container Terminal set



http://japanese.simutrans.com/index.php?Addon128%2FOthers

Offline mEGa

  • 2D painter
  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1041
  • Pak128 graphics
    • mEGa_Simutrans
  • Languages: FR, EN, ru
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2013, 09:06:51 AM »
Hi mEGa, this is a very interesting aspect. I would support your idea. Maybe it would be nice to add docks on left and/or right?
Thank's. I thought about docks too. But when ships arrived it goes sometimes on parallel way, cutting this type of docks. For passengers terminal set as you found it will be possible.
One notice : we need this area on water to define the point of stop. Players don't have to forget it.Then I prefered mooring buoyes for this reason.

We definitely need more than the existing Harbour-Tools. I thought some time ago about some addons which are missing. There are some japanese addons, but i think there is much more potential in Harbour-Tools.


Ideas for example:

- Marina (Curiosity)
- Beach (Curiosity)
- Ship mooring
- Pier
- Buoyes (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=6893.msg66673#msg66673)
- Embankment
- Levee (Way)
- Container Harbour (http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=10615.msg101677#msg101677)
- Harbour Buildings (Station Extensions)

you read in my thoughts ;)
At first, I'm just going to modify existent harbour element to accordate them. But we could design together this ambitious project

EDIT : the sources of first improvement (long_good_dock)
http://www.mosaiques44.fr/simutrans/lib/exe/fetch.php/long_goods_dock.zip
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 03:26:56 PM by mEGa »

Offline wlindley

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1064
    • Hacking for fun and profit since 1977
  • Languages: EN, DE
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2013, 01:09:58 PM »
Excellent!

Nitpicks: Could you correct "habour" to "harbour" in the .dat -- the proper spelling has been supported for many years.  Also, the plural of "buoy" is "buoys" -- no 'e'. 

I wonder whether we could have a parameter that says whether to dock ships alongside a quay that extends into the water (the ship resting perpendicular to the shore), or conversely to have ships rest next to a wharf (ship parallel to the shore).

Offline mEGa

  • 2D painter
  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1041
  • Pak128 graphics
    • mEGa_Simutrans
  • Languages: FR, EN, ru
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2013, 02:58:48 PM »
Nitpicks: Could you correct "habour" to "harbour" in the .dat -- the proper spelling has been supported for many years.  Also, the plural of "buoy" is "buoys" -- no 'e'. 
done... (harbour and buoys ;) ) Many thanks
modified sources here : http://www.mosaiques44.fr/simutrans/lib/exe/fetch.php/long_goods_dock_src.zip
I wonder whether we could have a parameter that says whether to dock ships alongside a quay that extends into the water (the ship resting perpendicular to the shore), or conversely to have ships rest next to a wharf (ship parallel to the shore).
I hope too. it will be more realistic.

So new "shipstop" now :

sources file here : http://www.mosaiques44.fr/simutrans/lib/exe/fetch.php/shipstop_src.zip

EDIT:

New post_dock :

sources file here : http://www.mosaiques44.fr/simutrans/lib/exe/fetch.php/post_dock_src.zip
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 04:50:43 PM by mEGa »

Offline greenling

  • Lounger
  • *
  • Posts: 1728
  • Simutransarchology it my hobby!
  • Languages: DE,EN
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2013, 04:45:24 PM »
Thank you Mega
for the new harbor.

Offline The Hood

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2013, 05:55:04 PM »
You can download it from japanese simutrans:

Port Container Terminal set



http://japanese.simutrans.com/index.php?Addon128%2FOthers

Does anyone know how they got the ship to dock side on? That would be a huge improvement graphically rather than the typical nose-on dockings we often get!

Offline Zeno

  • ENASSA Designer
  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1997
    • Zeno's Simutrans Creations
  • Languages: ES, EN, CAT
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2013, 06:00:25 PM »
Probably that active crane (note it's different from the other two, which are up with so don't have shade) is the "real" dock, an everything else may be just extensions... not sure though.

Offline Fabio

  • Devotee
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2898
  • The Pak128 Guy
    • Visit me on Facebook
  • Languages: EN, IT, RO, FR
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2013, 10:04:30 PM »
We should have also some long pier (2+ tiles) harbor on Pak 128, other paksets have them already ;)

Offline mEGa

  • 2D painter
  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1041
  • Pak128 graphics
    • mEGa_Simutrans
  • Languages: FR, EN, ru
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2013, 09:18:15 AM »
Does anyone know how they got the ship to dock side on? That would be a huge improvement graphically rather than the typical nose-on dockings we often get!
Probably that active crane (note it's different from the other two, which are up with so don't have shade) is the "real" dock, an everything else may be just extensions... not sure though.
they are only extension harbour. I used them  more times ago and I saw same uggly effect. Ships go through pier.
In this snapshot, I mean ships navigate along pier and not stopped.

After first improvement of existent elements, I would try to create this type of pier for pak128 as Raiser suggested. Perhaps use existent last platforms, last cranes and loading frame. Some help is welcome :-)

Offline Raiser

  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • Languages: DE, EN
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2013, 11:10:21 AM »
they are only extension harbour. I used them  more times ago and I saw same ugly effect. Ships go through pier.
In this snapshot, I mean ships navigate along pier and not stopped.

After first improvement of existent elements, I would try to create this type of pier for pak128 as Raiser suggested. Perhaps use existent last platforms, last cranes and loading frame. Some help is welcome :-)

Yes, you are right. Ships go trough pier as like they do by the other harbours. Should we also try to align new piers to the top tile border? It would be possible to combine them with station extensions, roads, etc. on land then?

Next question: Is it possible to build Extensions on water, for example a Levee, which are not crossed/hit by ships?




Offline mEGa

  • 2D painter
  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1041
  • Pak128 graphics
    • mEGa_Simutrans
  • Languages: FR, EN, ru
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2013, 03:42:08 PM »
Well, I continued to improve harbour set. Here a new test to resolve some graphic bugs :


You can see now that slope of beach is respected. this set are composed by 2 elements (1 = main & 2 = extended).
Should we also try to align new piers to the top tile border? It would be possible to combine them with station extensions, roads, etc. on land then?
As you can see I voluntarily kept a small height for piers by creating steps to arrive at the top of the tile. Because if we align this new piers to the top tile border, I'm afraid that difference between height of ships and piers is too high.
Have you any different idea to correct it ? We can also raise height of step to align them with top of platform...
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 03:59:04 PM by mEGa »

Offline VS

  • Senior Plumber (Devotee)
  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 4856
  • Vladimír Slávik
    • VS's Simutrans site
  • Languages: CS,EN
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2013, 04:19:27 PM »
How about 1/2 of tile height? Then it would be easier to adapt to future lower slopes, too...?

Offline greenling

  • Lounger
  • *
  • Posts: 1728
  • Simutransarchology it my hobby!
  • Languages: DE,EN
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2013, 06:48:13 PM »
Hello mega
The Harbor on the photo looks very goood out.

Offline Sarlock

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1340
  • Languages: EN
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2013, 08:02:49 PM »
Clearly we just need bigger ships to scale up to the docks ;)

That aside, I agree with VS... maybe 1/2 height docks, adding another step or larger step in the process.

Offline Raiser

  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • Languages: DE, EN
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2013, 03:30:49 PM »
Clearly we just need bigger ships to scale up to the docks ;)

That aside, I agree with VS... maybe 1/2 height docks, adding another step or larger step in the process.

To work together, we will need a precise 1x1 tile template with full-height & half-height slopes. I'm trying to build one - but I'm not shure if it's correct?

Would someone check this template?

http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/2x2_tile_template.7z

IMHO it would at first be useful to create 2-3 standard-pavements and harbour-walls (wooden, concrete, rusty, etc.) for common use?

Next question: Is it possible to build Extensions on water, for example a Levee, which are not crossed/hit by ships?

« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 02:00:12 PM by Raiser »

Offline mEGa

  • 2D painter
  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1041
  • Pak128 graphics
    • mEGa_Simutrans
  • Languages: FR, EN, ru
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2013, 09:29:01 AM »
To work together, we will need a precise 1x1 tile template with full-height & half-height slopes. I'm trying to build one - but I'm not shure if it's correct?
It's correct for me.
IMHO it would at first be useful to create 2-3 standard-pavements and harbour-walls (wooden, concrete, rusty, etc.) for common use?
Good idea. I'll use them, sure.

there is a link of all testing sources to share my work :
http://www.mosaiques44.fr/simutrans/lib/exe/fetch.php/long_dock-tests_all_src.zip
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 09:35:56 AM by mEGa »

Offline Raiser

  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • Languages: DE, EN
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2013, 01:56:52 PM »
Hi, i finished the harbour-template. Everyone is welcome to work with it to build new Harbours  :D

As next step i try to paint some wall/pier patterns



http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/2x2_tile_harbour_template.7z

Offline mEGa

  • 2D painter
  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1041
  • Pak128 graphics
    • mEGa_Simutrans
  • Languages: FR, EN, ru
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2013, 08:36:07 AM »
Thank you Raiser. I'm going to try to create new pier with it.
May be, we can delete ocean texture, because, imho, transparent tile is better ?

Offline mEGa

  • 2D painter
  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1041
  • Pak128 graphics
    • mEGa_Simutrans
  • Languages: FR, EN, ru
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2013, 04:46:34 PM »
Well,
I come back with new version (under half-tile) and a new designed crane :



Pier : a background wall offers a border
Crane  is coloured with color player and appears since 1942 (like date of original pak) It freely inspired by real crane used in Saint Nazaire (Harbour of France)


A simple pier can be create without any crane but with containers for example to complete this set.
What are your thoughts ?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 04:55:11 PM by mEGa »

Offline Combuijs

  • Web Team
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1406
  • Maintainer of maps.simutrans.com
    • Combuijs
  • Languages: EN, NL
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2013, 04:58:42 PM »
Lovely! Looks very good!

Offline greenling

  • Lounger
  • *
  • Posts: 1728
  • Simutransarchology it my hobby!
  • Languages: DE,EN
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2013, 05:12:32 PM »
Hello Mega
The Cranes they you have be paint look s very good out. :thumbsup:

Offline Sarlock

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1340
  • Languages: EN
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2013, 10:57:54 PM »
Very nice cranes!  They make the shops look small... if only we could make to-scale ships :)

Offline mEGa

  • 2D painter
  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1041
  • Pak128 graphics
    • mEGa_Simutrans
  • Languages: FR, EN, ru
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2013, 08:39:00 AM »
They make the shops look small... if only we could make to-scale ships :)
Yes, size of ships is the main problem I mean. They are probably too small, IMHO.
So, question is :
- make to scale crane to ships and cranes will are too small compared with another items (platforms, gantries, buildings)
or
- Keep cranes like that and maybe later enlarge the scale of boats
I don't know how to do.

Offline Raiser

  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • Languages: DE, EN
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2013, 01:43:26 PM »
Yes, size of ships is the main problem I mean. They are probably too small, IMHO.
So, question is :
- make to scale crane to ships and cranes will are too small compared with another items (platforms, gantries, buildings)
or
- Keep cranes like that and maybe later enlarge the scale of boats
I don't know how to do.


Hi mEGa, i knew that you would something plot during the last days :)

The Cranes are very Cool - maybe add some more details by reducing the due of the player colour? In addition i think its better to use new pavements and pier walls. That industrial pavement looks not really good at harbour embankments. Rusty Sheetpiles in combination with the cranes would look more realistic.

IMHO ships are certainly too small, they are even smaller than planes! It would be better to enlarge the scale of boats later. Perhaps "Zeno" still have the sources and the blender files from his ships, so it would be easy to rescale a large number??? I would keep cranes like that.

Here is a link to Zeno's website: http://simutrans-creations.blogspot.de/search/label/ships

Example:

Offline Sarlock

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1340
  • Languages: EN
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2013, 04:36:07 PM »
Yes, I've seen those ships from Zeno, they are fantastic!  The problem is that they look crazy when going up canals/small waterways, especially when they turn around and the front and back of the ship swing through the ground/harbours, etc.

That said, for me it's worth the compromise to have ships that are more to scale.  To really be at scale, though, the large ships would have to be massive... but we have to draw the line somewhere :)  (and we're limited to 255x255 pixels)

Probably best kept as addons.

Offline greenling

  • Lounger
  • *
  • Posts: 1728
  • Simutransarchology it my hobby!
  • Languages: DE,EN
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2013, 04:44:19 PM »
We can not make the Ships bigger than 255 pixels more can Makeobj.exe not support.

Offline mEGa

  • 2D painter
  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1041
  • Pak128 graphics
    • mEGa_Simutrans
  • Languages: FR, EN, ru
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2013, 05:12:49 PM »
Well a little sleep before continuing this project.
I'm agree Raiser, new crane will be a part of new pakset of harbor extended. And then, I will apply new pavements for pier.
I don't want to replace existent harbours set, but only improve them.

So I submit you this improvement :



To morrow I'll finish bulk_dock.

This improvements include winter views, water stop area and addons are built over half tile. IMHO I corrected all graphic bugs as possible.

For example : Crate_goods_dock :
Old version New version
 



Paks for testing (name of building is with number 2 at end) :
http://www.mosaiques44.fr/simutrans/lib/exe/fetch.php/long_goods_dock_2a.pak
http://www.mosaiques44.fr/simutrans/lib/exe/fetch.php/shipstop2.pak
http://www.mosaiques44.fr/simutrans/lib/exe/fetch.php/post_dock_2.pak
http://www.mosaiques44.fr/simutrans/lib/exe/fetch.php/crate_goods_dock_2.pak


« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 05:19:16 PM by mEGa »

Offline Zeno

  • ENASSA Designer
  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1997
    • Zeno's Simutrans Creations
  • Languages: ES, EN, CAT
Re: Enhancement Harbor area and extensions
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2013, 05:44:11 PM »
All ships are rendered in a tile size of 250px, although a big amount could fit in 192px. Anyway, I used 250 only because that was a size where *all* ships could be rendered "inside", so it would be a matter of picking another standard and redrawing all.
Np resizing as I keep all sources in safe place :)

Edit: Moreover, IIRC, there was a pak (was it 192?) where ships were coded in 2 or 3 parts, allowing huge ships. They looked really odd when turning around though...