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Author Topic: (solved) Busses lose money  (Read 5977 times)

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Offline ronnie89b

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(solved) Busses lose money
« on: January 10, 2009, 08:17:43 PM »
Hello!
I only read the forum till now.

I'm playing with the latest nightly version with pak128.
With pak 64 I can do a very profitable passenger transport network easily, but with pak 128 I can't do it.
I think I find a bug.
My busses or trolleybusses lose money when they arrive some stops


Please help me!
Thank you!
« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 07:05:45 PM by VS »

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Busses lose money
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2009, 08:26:08 PM »
If the 'buses actually produce a negative revenue, that might indeed be a bug - if they make a loss, that should be because the maintenance costs exceed the revenue, not because the revenue is negative  (i.e., the transport company will not be paying people to ride on their 'buses). Can you upload your savegame file?

Offline z9999

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Re: Busses lose money
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2009, 08:37:07 PM »

Offline ronnie89b

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Re: Busses lose money
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2009, 09:10:44 PM »
http://www.simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/save.sve

It's my savegame. Only one test bus/trolley line in this map. I hope it's enough for you

Offline VS

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Re: Busses lose money
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2009, 09:13:28 PM »
Negative money -> you take passengers away from their destination, not closer.

I get 404 not found on the link...

Offline ronnie89b

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Re: Busses lose money
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2009, 09:16:13 PM »

Offline VS

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Re: Busses lose money
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2009, 09:49:56 PM »
OK, this works. As I said - taking passengers the other way than they want to go (geometrically) gives negative income. The problem is, this is not taken into account when searching for connections, so they happily use vehicles which go the other way.

If you look at the diagram:

When you take route 1 from A to B, it's ok, but if you take 2 with the stop further away, there you get negative income.

So a line going k-l-m-n will lose money for people who go from k to n...

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline ronnie89b

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Re: Busses lose money
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2009, 11:21:19 PM »
I changed the line and it works. So the passenger travel from B to F, and choose 2.chance(with the shorter distance and change vehicle), rather than the 1.chance (with longer distance and no change vehicle).

The 2. chance seems to be more logical :D

Thank you for your help!

Offline AP

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Re: Busses lose money
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2009, 10:27:25 AM »
So this actual negative income for circuitous or indirect routes is deliberate? Is this a new bug feature?

Offline wernieman

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Re: Busses lose money
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2009, 10:31:00 AM »
It is a new feature from simutrans.

If you whant, you can test the aktual PAK128 nightly. zeno have recalculate the prices ...

Offline z9999

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Re: Busses lose money
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2009, 11:13:04 AM »
So this actual negative income for circuitous or indirect routes is deliberate? Is this a new bug feature?

Yes, I hate this.  ;D
I don't like the idea that "hence total income is the same, so process is not important".
I think all result of each process should be shown to players correctly.
Hidden bonus is not a bonus, hidden penalty is not a penalty.

Offline AP

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Re: Busses lose money
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2009, 11:39:36 AM »
If the total income is the same, I suppose that is the most important thing.  Circuitous routes are often not "designed" that way - as long as they are now not being unduly penalised as well (I was worried for a moment!), beyond the obvious longer journey times they involve.

As for hidden things - i presume it is necessary (or neater) for the game mechanics. Ethics of coding is something outside my field. That said, it is nice to know what rules we are playing to...  :)

I may well play with the nightly. I wonder if this makes a difference to the profit graphs etc for the routes? Can they still be trusted?

Offline VS

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Re: Busses lose money
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2009, 11:57:30 AM »
Now I'm not speaking as a pakset maintainer, but as a player:
When I saw that a train had too low income, I watched it for a moment and then realized what was happening... it went completely elsewhere, loaded with people who wanted to go the other way. It is a transparent behaviour, not nice (who wants to lose $$$?), but understandable. Some more tweaks to compensate for routes that can't be better would be even more nice.