Author Topic: Some results...  (Read 46585 times)

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Offline Junna

Re: Some results...
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2013, 03:26:43 PM »
You had not set the export script to use vehicle alignments, which is why it was not automatically aligned to start with.

I set it to this during export - at least of the others, once I figured out it was supposed to be "vehicle alignment" and not "normal", - but it's still off by some bit (it appears slightly to the left (1-2 pixels) of the box outline in the depot view). How do I sort this?

This is using vehicle alignment export, but with the above mentioned issue remaining, for the NER Tyneside:

Trailer:

Driving motor:

Rear motor:

Driving trailer:

Attached is updated .dat.

To illustrate what I mean:


I managed to make this first unit aligned (not sure how), but the rest are still somewhat off like this, and I can't seem to sort it out to make it align perfectly.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2013, 03:30:03 PM »
Hmm - I'm not sure why it's off. Sadly, I don't have any more time to-day to look into this, as I have to travel this evening. My renders of your LMS EMU appear correct, so I am not sure what the problem would be with the Tyneside units.
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Offline Junna

Re: Some results...
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2013, 12:15:13 AM »
Hmm - I'm not sure why it's off. Sadly, I don't have any more time to-day to look into this, as I have to travel this evening. My renders of your LMS EMU appear correct, so I am not sure what the problem would be with the Tyneside units.

The LMS EMU is modified from existing model though, so in case anything became off during the creation process, it's less likely to show there. Let me know if you find something out once you have a look at the other abominable things.

I have another issue, too: the render processor makes all my renders, even if they do not face this way, face backwards. I'm not good at explaining things, but... I have a rendered image, the first one is East, and it faces the right way, but when I add them to render processor, it makes E face as if it was a backwards unit (W instead of E or some such).



SR Bulleid Leader class; dat attached; Observe that the maximum speed and power are just rough guesses, as I am not sure how to determine roughly output of steam engines in Kw and am not sure of its speed limit. This image is correctly aligned; I aligned it manually and ran a train with carriages in a test circle to see any possible errors.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2013, 01:20:52 AM »
Thank you for that. I think that the difficulty that you are having with the alignment is at least partly in your .dat files, but might also be in your .blends. I have modified your Class 101 .blend files (modified versions in my Github archive) and produced multiple livery variants of them (in my Pak128.Britain-Ex Github archive). In so doing, I noticed that the vehicles were all facing top to bottom when initially exported, and I had to rotate the camera and lighting dome by 45 degrees in order to get them to the correct starting point, which is facing top right to bottom left.

Secondly, you might notice that the .blend files that I produce for graphics that have been automatically exported in this way all have a particular ordering of the graphics which is different to the ordering of the graphics for manually aligned sets. See here for the example, using the modified version of your Class 101 .blends. The image definition for the DMBS is as follows:

Code: [Select]
liverytype[0]=BR-Revised
liverytype[1]=BR-Blue
liverytype[2]=BR-Large-Logo
liverytype[3]=NSE-Standard
liverytype[4]=NSE-Revised
liverytype[5]=Regional-Railways-Standard

EmptyImage[E][0]=./images/br-101-dmbs-g.1.4
EmptyImage[SE][0]=./images/br-101-dmbs-g.1.5
EmptyImage[S][0]=./images/br-101-dmbs-g.1.6
EmptyImage[SW][0]=./images/br-101-dmbs-g.1.7
EmptyImage[W][0]=./images/br-101-dmbs-g.1.0
EmptyImage[NW][0]=./images/br-101-dmbs-g.1.1
EmptyImage[N][0]=./images/br-101-dmbs-g.1.2
EmptyImage[NE][0]=./images/br-101-dmbs-g.1.3

EmptyImage[E][1]=./images/br-101-dmbs-b.1.4
EmptyImage[SE][1]=./images/br-101-dmbs-b.1.5
EmptyImage[S][1]=./images/br-101-dmbs-b.1.6
EmptyImage[SW][1]=./images/br-101-dmbs-b.1.7
EmptyImage[W][1]=./images/br-101-dmbs-b.1.0
EmptyImage[NW][1]=./images/br-101-dmbs-b.1.1
EmptyImage[N][1]=./images/br-101-dmbs-b.1.2
EmptyImage[NE][1]=./images/br-101-dmbs-b.1.3

EmptyImage[E][2]=./images/br-101-dmbs-bg.1.4
EmptyImage[SE][2]=./images/br-101-dmbs-bg.1.5
EmptyImage[S][2]=./images/br-101-dmbs-bg.1.6
EmptyImage[SW][2]=./images/br-101-dmbs-bg.1.7
EmptyImage[W][2]=./images/br-101-dmbs-bg.1.0
EmptyImage[NW][2]=./images/br-101-dmbs-bg.1.1
EmptyImage[N][2]=./images/br-101-dmbs-bg.1.2
EmptyImage[NE][2]=./images/br-101-dmbs-bg.1.3

EmptyImage[E][3]=./images/br-101-dmbs-nse-old.1.4
EmptyImage[SE][3]=./images/br-101-dmbs-nse-old.1.5
EmptyImage[S][3]=./images/br-101-dmbs-nse-old.1.6
EmptyImage[SW][3]=./images/br-101-dmbs-nse-old.1.7
EmptyImage[W][3]=./images/br-101-dmbs-nse-old.1.0
EmptyImage[NW][3]=./images/br-101-dmbs-nse-old.1.1
EmptyImage[N][3]=./images/br-101-dmbs-nse-old.1.2
EmptyImage[NE][3]=./images/br-101-dmbs-nse-old.1.3

EmptyImage[E][4]=./images/br-101-dmbs-nse-new.1.4
EmptyImage[SE][4]=./images/br-101-dmbs-nse-new.1.5
EmptyImage[S][4]=./images/br-101-dmbs-nse-new.1.6
EmptyImage[SW][4]=./images/br-101-dmbs-nse-new.1.7
EmptyImage[W][4]=./images/br-101-dmbs-nse-new.1.0
EmptyImage[NW][4]=./images/br-101-dmbs-nse-new.1.1
EmptyImage[N][4]=./images/br-101-dmbs-nse-new.1.2
EmptyImage[NE][4]=./images/br-101-dmbs-nse-new.1.3

EmptyImage[E][5]=./images/br-101-dmbs-rr.1.4
EmptyImage[SE][5]=./images/br-101-dmbs-rr.1.5
EmptyImage[S][5]=./images/br-101-dmbs-rr.1.6
EmptyImage[SW][5]=./images/br-101-dmbs-rr.1.7
EmptyImage[W][5]=./images/br-101-dmbs-rr.1.0
EmptyImage[NW][5]=./images/br-101-dmbs-rr.1.1
EmptyImage[N][5]=./images/br-101-dmbs-rr.1.2
EmptyImage[NE][5]=./images/br-101-dmbs-rr.1.3

Note the sequence: 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, 1.7, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 and 1.3 with E, SE, S, SW, W, NW N and NE. Manually aligned graphics have a different sequence:

Code: [Select]
EmptyImage[E]=./images/lu-2009.1.0
EmptyImage[SE]=./images/lu-2009.1.1
EmptyImage[S]=./images/lu-2009.1.2
EmptyImage[SW]=./images/lu-2009.1.3
EmptyImage[W]=./images/lu-2009.1.4
EmptyImage[NW]=./images/lu-2009.1.5
EmptyImage[N]=./images/lu-2009.1.6
EmptyImage[NE]=./images/lu-2009.1.7

The sequence of the ordinal directions is the same, but the images for this manually aligned graphic are in a straight sequence of 1.0, 1.1, 1.2. 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6 and 1.7. If you use this straight sequence with an automatically rendered/aligned vehicle, then it will be turned through 180 degrees and not properly aligned, which I suspect is the problem that you are having with your NER Tyneside units. Might I suggest that you have another go with the NER Tyneside units using this modified sequence to see whether that helps?

As to the Leader class, that is a very unusual locomotive indeed! I notice that you have depicted it in the photographic grey livery in which it actually ran: do you not think that it would be better to depict it in the black livery that it would have worn had it ever gone into production?

As to how to calculate the power of a steam locomotive, you should use this spreadsheet, which is what I have used to calculate the power of all of the steam locomotives in the pakset (for 0.9.0 - this was not done for the release of 0.8.4). To calculate the tractive effort if you do not have access to that datum directly (most 20th century steam locomotives have published tractive effort figures somewhere), use this website (which also purports to give power calculations, but these seem to be wildly inaccurate, so ignore them, and use the spreadsheet instead). Looking at the Wikipedia article, however, the tractive effort is given for this locomotive. As for the top speed, note that it was intended to be a replacement for the LSWR M7 class, which was a suburban tank engine, so I should not imagine that it was intended to go much faster than about 130km/h, although I stand to be corrected if anyone knows better from the operational reports.
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Offline kierongreen

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2013, 09:52:21 AM »
Leader... Well, I guess it falls into the same category as the APT. Vehicles for which maintenance should be set at a level which means that any revenue can only just cover it.

Pak128.Britain does already have a lot of trains already, maybe you might consider buses or buildings as well when creating models in blender?

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2013, 10:32:49 AM »
There are still plenty of gaps in rail vehicles to be filled in; but there's no harm in variety.

One thing with road vehicles is that they need manual alignment, as nobody has yet produced an automated renderer that is aligned correctly for road vehicles (or worked out a set of offsets that will convert non-road vehicle alignments to road vehicle alignments).
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Offline The Hood

Re: Some results...
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2013, 04:57:43 PM »
Great to see a new graphics artist in the making - I've not got time to get these into standard at the minute but I'll add it to the list of things to include. I'd echo kierongreen's comments though - if you fancy turning your hand to buildings (factories/attractions/citybuildings all need expanding) that would be great! But of course just draw what you want to see included in the game and it will make its way in.

Offline Junna

Re: Some results...
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2013, 07:45:19 PM »
Great to see a new graphics artist in the making - I've not got time to get these into standard at the minute but I'll add it to the list of things to include. I'd echo kierongreen's comments though - if you fancy turning your hand to buildings (factories/attractions/citybuildings all need expanding) that would be great! But of course just draw what you want to see included in the game and it will make its way in.

I envisioned a housing estate attraction and something similar, but the making of multi-tile buildings seem very difficult; how does one proceed as regards the scale and such?

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2013, 07:57:36 PM »
You keep the same scale as one tile buildings, you can then make the camera scale smaller and increase the render size to increase the render area to cover more than one tile. Then you put the output through TileCutter to split it up into the tiles used ingame.

Regarding a housing estate attraction, the problem with that is that it will look identical everywhere it pops up. When houses are placed individually as the city expands then a lot more variety in layout is possible. Shopping centres, churches, museums are all possibilities for attractions though - and more city buildings are always welcome.

Offline Junna

Re: Some results...
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2013, 08:06:11 PM »
Regarding a housing estate attraction, the problem with that is that it will look identical everywhere it pops up. When houses are placed individually as the city expands then a lot more variety in layout is possible. Shopping centres, churches, museums are all possibilities for attractions though - and more city buildings are always welcome.

Well, the idea was that it would only appear from 1960 to 1972, so it wouldn't be too prevalent... The problem is the city buildings are all single-tile so too small to fit even a single decent-looking slab block with the true road-less estate quality.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2013, 08:43:43 PM »
I wouldn't try creating really tall tower blocks as they just end up being annoying blocking the view of everything behind. City buildings can be made to look good together in rows though so you can create the appearance of larger buildings.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2013, 10:38:42 PM »
I'm not convinced by the idea of a housing estate attraction: but attractions can be used to create municipal city buildings, which we are currently lacking, such as hospitals, police stations, fire stations, law courts, swimming pools and the like.

Edit: I have added a green livery for the BR Class 09 on my Github repository.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 12:56:58 AM by jamespetts »
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Offline Junna

Re: Some results...
« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2013, 06:12:46 PM »
Where can I find the motorway .blend's, by the way? There doesn't seem to be any present in the repositories.

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2013, 08:08:02 PM »
Ahh, they were not made from .blend files - they were altered in the Gimp from the asphalt road (country_road.png).
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Offline Junna

Re: Some results...
« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2013, 10:20:48 AM »

Leader in BR mixed traffic black/red and yellow livery.

Offline greenling

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2013, 03:35:35 PM »
Who this train looks very dark out.
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Re: Some results...
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2013, 10:01:40 PM »
That looks good. Did you get around to calibrating the physics in the .dat file?
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Offline Junna

Re: Some results...
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2013, 11:56:16 PM »
That looks good. Did you get around to calibrating the physics in the .dat file?

Well I guess extrapolating the force from similarly proportioned locomotives would give a power of around 450-550kw, so gave it 512 (and changed speed to 140km/h).

 How come the steam trains have such low outputs, anyway? There's always quotes of the A4 and A1 having well over "2200 horse power", but they end up with 700kw - were they that low?

Offline Junna

Re: Some results...
« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2013, 05:28:45 AM »
So, a hospital... I couldn't well work out how to get it to appear entirely consistent, so here is the blend for someone to generate and sort out, if they want to...

http://www.mediafire.com/download/j1trbcoe074j4hz/Hospital_Complex.blend



Offline The Hood

Re: Some results...
« Reply #54 on: July 12, 2013, 08:15:26 AM »
Not bad at all for a first building - the shape is just right. The walls look too bland though - are they textured? I suggest copying one of the existing brick or concrete textures from another building. Maybe also some more ventilation pipes etc on the roof? Good stuff though!

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2013, 08:25:34 AM »
That looks very good for a first effort - don't be tempted to give up!

Main points to consider:
Copy textures from existing buildings to get a consistent look. In particular the pavement and tarmac textures, but flat roof and wall textures can probably also be copied from similar era buildings.
Experiment a bit to make sure the base goes right up to the edge of the tile (or pixel edit if you prefer).
Remember if you are having trees in your building you'll need to have an image for each season.
Make sure the anti aliasing to background is disabled - when I render your blend here it blurs into the backgroup.

Once you've got it matching surrounding tiles you might want to consider a few extra details (although you've got lots on that one already!). I'd think about a few flower beds, roof details (e.g. access gantries), cars in the car park - ambulance even?

Anyway, great work :)

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2013, 01:30:14 PM »
Well I guess extrapolating the force from similarly proportioned locomotives would give a power of around 450-550kw, so gave it 512 (and changed speed to 140km/h).

Did you use the spreadsheet to which I referred you earlier in this thread? All steam locomotives need to be calibrated using the spreadsheet.

Quote
How come the steam trains have such low outputs, anyway? There's always quotes of the A4 and A1 having well over "2200 horse power", but they end up with 700kw - were they that low?

It is very difficult to measure the power of steam locomotives, and I suspect that there are a number of different means of measurement, producing different results. It is difficult for me to answer in detail, as I did not write the physics code (that was Bernd Gabriel), but the steam locomotives are carefully calibrated based on real life performance, and the power given is drawbar power, unlike for diesel and electric locomotives/units, for which the power given is the base engine power, modified by the gear factor (0.5 for diesel, 0.8 for electric) to give drawbar power.
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Offline greenling

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2013, 01:43:08 PM »
Hello Junna
The Hospital Complex Looks very good out.
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Re: Some results...
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2013, 02:15:25 PM »
Steam locomotives, even those with high top speeds had poor acceleration. Hence why they became extinct first on suburban services, later on long distance. So as long as the power is enough to (eventually) reach top speed that's pretty realistic.

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2013, 08:47:48 PM »
I have now re-aligned the Tyneside units, added a proper retirement date (these things were built down to 1928, it seems), reduced the brightness of the orange, and uploaded them to my Github repository.
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Offline Junna

Re: Some results...
« Reply #60 on: July 12, 2013, 11:49:01 PM »
Did you use the spreadsheet to which I referred you earlier in this thread? All steam locomotives need to be calibrated using the spreadsheet.

Yes, comparing boiler pressure and firebox size and so on for a rough estimate; it seems the proportions are similar to those of the Merchant Navy class, but a bit weaker.

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #61 on: July 12, 2013, 11:59:21 PM »
Thank you.

May I ask - why do you comment out the retirement dates in your .dat files?

Edit: Now added to my Github repository.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 12:11:15 AM by jamespetts »
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Offline Junna

Re: Some results...
« Reply #62 on: July 13, 2013, 12:10:38 AM »
Thank you.

May I ask - why do you comment out the retirement dates in your .dat files?

I couldn't change the setting for retirement date adding costs in save games already made, so I comment out retirement date to avoid the penalty; and to assure that they displayed when I tested them in-game on a save with a test track. As for the new dats, I assumed you wanted to look the retirement dates over either way, so it didn't much matter wheter I changed it.

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #63 on: July 13, 2013, 12:11:43 AM »
Ahh, I see. That makes sense.
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Offline jamespetts

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2013, 12:12:30 AM »
Hmm - one thing that I have noticed that we could do with, and should be quite easy, is modern era monuments for cities. Currently, all the monuments seem to have expired after about 1950. We could do, perhaps, with some sculpture installations, or modern fountains.
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Offline Junna

Re: Some results...
« Reply #65 on: July 14, 2013, 04:45:55 AM »
http://www.mediafire.com/download/n99bikk5d11bbab/Hospital_Complex-massiveedits.blend

Revised hospital:


I'm not sure of how the shadows turn out... are two of the sides supposed to be missing shadow?

And a Class 17:

Why a class 17? Well, out of the Type 1's, it had a unique appearance, that's the reason.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #66 on: July 14, 2013, 06:53:04 AM »
Nice improvements :) One thing I'd say is that I'd remove the grass and replace that area with transparency (which will then match whatever is base climate).

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Re: Some results...
« Reply #67 on: July 14, 2013, 07:30:17 AM »
Hello Junna
That looks very good out.
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Re: Some results...
« Reply #68 on: July 14, 2013, 11:22:27 AM »
I do like the hospital, although I wonder whether we might make the roof a smidgen dirtier looking by blending in the "clouds" texture with a dark brown colour on top of the roof?

As to the class 17, that looks lovely - would you be able to do a BR blue livery, too, to match the other diesel locomotives, which all have a full set of liveries up to the BR blue era? It is so excellent to see somebody else producing things, especially when they are of quality.
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Offline Junna

Re: Some results...
« Reply #69 on: July 15, 2013, 10:30:52 AM »
Class 17 in BR Blue: