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Author Topic: usage of public service  (Read 9338 times)

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Offline dwpvdk

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usage of public service
« on: August 22, 2013, 11:29:40 PM »
In my maps I never use public service to build ways and grow cities. That said I look at everyone else's maps and they look amazing compared to mine. (I recently started playing; I may not know all the tricks yet) Is the disparity there because all of you use public service? Am I just ignorant? I guess I want to know how everyone plays: use of public service, things you use public service for...

Offline Sarlock

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2013, 01:56:21 AM »
There are lots of different play styles, some that use the public service extensively some that refuse to open up that menu even once during a game.

I use the public player all the time, but I view the game more as a simulation than a game so I like to tailor the look of each area to be exactly what I want it to look like.  I treat Simutrans like a giant train set that is much too large for my basement than as a competitive video game.

Offline dwpvdk

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2013, 02:08:46 AM »
So that said, are you always trying to make a profit, or do you not care about the in-game finances?

Offline sdog

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2013, 02:16:55 AM »
I typically use the public service player at the beginning of a game to fine-tune the map. change cities, remove obstructions that keep them from growing, introduce new ones to hinder them, make mountains or lakes more interesting, connect lakes to provide new options, build more interesting rivers systems, move industry to reflect reality (coalmines to hills, steel mills to rivers), rename the largest cities to geographically sensible ones (easier to remember glasgow and edinburgh are in the north, and Shrewsbury is the most important capital in the world)

after that initial phase i rarely use the public player:
-- change something at stations i made public before to interface with different transport companies
-- remove terrain modifications made by a bankrupt company
-- replace stupidly spawned industries
-- fix very awkward roads at cities (diagonal intercity roads lead to ugly results when cities grow)

Offline Sarlock

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2013, 03:07:47 AM »
So that said, are you always trying to make a profit, or do you not care about the in-game finances?

I do make a profit from a well laid-out transportation system, but there is certainly an element of "cheating" to the profits as I use the public player to my advantage.  But as the end goal isn't profits but a nice looking city and transportation network, it works for me :)

Offline Ters

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2013, 05:38:01 AM »
I only use public player to fix things the game can't do properly on its own, like rebuilding a city road I accidentally deleted, or completing the city road-ification of a road that has been mostly tranformed except for a few single tiles here and there (typically next to junctions on a diagonal road next to a railway). I've also sometimes used the public player to build electrification, which benefits me and kind of benefits the public player (not that it cares). My company is a transport company, not an energy company.

Offline isidoro

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2013, 10:43:09 PM »
I also use the public player a lot, but it varies from game to game.  In the last game I have played, the public player built a basic railway infrastructure with one station in every town and a low-cost rail track between them.  From that base, I opened several companies.  They can choose to use the public infrastructure or build their own if needed or if the public one is very congested.  I also like to open different companies for different sorts of goods.  Mail is apart, because I find it difficult to make a profit if a company doesn't transport passengers as well, at least in some paksets.

Public Service will found new cities if I see it's needed, do some earthworks, move or create rivers, lakes, etc. to make the game more appealing or challenging...

Once said that, I try to make sensible decisions and pay attention to finances, but that is much easier with the help of Simutransians' taxes...   :D

To make the playing experience better, I'd like the public player would also have some income and try to make decisions based also on that.


Offline el_slapper

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2013, 07:36:01 AM »
My current game, PAK128; I didn't use public player. There are a few tricks for making money, but the main one is patience. That's why I begin from 1910. After setting up one or two tram systems & industrial transports, I'm already broke & have to fastforward 5 or 10 years. Then I try to make local networks of pax transport. Once they work, it's usually already the 30s, & it's time to make the big bucks, with long-range transport.

phillyj

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2014, 05:50:19 PM »
I play with AI competitors. They can cause problems by making private roads and really wonky town roads that cause massive traffic jams. I'm talking of ten, twenty trucks overflowing from the loading docks. Buses, other trucks are basically stranded for days on end. So I use public money to add additional roads around and clear up traffic.

By the way, I see this "don't post; 45 day old thread" warning. I usually thought you shouldn't dredge up topics that are off the first page. Is it different around here?

Offline BR84

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2014, 08:30:58 PM »
Right, patience is the key for success in this simulation. The public service I am using only if some new industry blocks my plan and need to get removed. The fnancial things are not my cup of tea in this simulation. My target is to transport all available passenger and goods. Mail I am ignoring completely.
And often I am just sitting in front of my MBP and watch out how the small world is moving.

Offline Antonin

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2014, 11:42:42 AM »
I use the public player all the time, but I view the game more as a simulation than a game so I like to tailor the look of each area to be exactly what I want it to look like.  I treat Simutrans like a giant train set that is much too large for my basement than as a competitive video game.

This is also the way I now see the public player and Simutrans. When I began playing Simutrans I never used the public player.  Now, I like to use the public player to build roads, rail lines and factories. I also use it to create new cities in areas that I think are too empty.

I want to transport passengers and products and make a profit, but for me, this game is more like a giant train set than a competitive computer game. I love the micromanagement.  If I can efficiently transport lots of passengers and products and make a small profit, I'm happy. If I don't use the public player to build basic infrastructure, I run out of money very quickly.
 
It would be nice if the public player received income by taxing the citizens.

Offline Ters

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2014, 02:01:52 PM »
This is also the way I now see the public player and Simutrans. When I began playing Simutrans I never used the public player.  Now, I like to use the public player to build roads, rail lines and factories. I also use it to create new cities in areas that I think are too empty.
[...] this game is more like a giant train set [...]

It would be nice if the public player received income by taxing the citizens.

At one point you want I giant train set, then you want Sim City. Perhaps not directly, but one thing leads to the other.

If taxes are to have any purpose, they have to be balanced between giving the government enough money and not bleeding the citizens dry. So how should the tax income be set? Realistically, it varies by which politicians are in charge and the global economic situation, of which Simutrans has no concept. The amount available for transportation infrastructure also depends on the government's goal of the year/term. Letting the player set the tax income freely is won't really add anything beyond a simple helper to maintain an average yearly spending rate, which can be done from the graphs already with just a little effort.

Taxation can however have some merits in a scenario, especially one where the infrastructure is nationalized. One still has to face the problem with what should happen when the maintenance costs exceed tax income.

Offline Sarlock

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2014, 04:28:14 PM »
Quote
Taxation can however have some merits in a scenario, especially one where the infrastructure is nationalized. One still has to face the problem with what should happen when the maintenance costs exceed tax income

Deficits!  Something our governments know a thing or two about.

If taxes are meant to be anything more than cosmetic to make the public player maintain a positive cash balance, that would require a complex economic system to be built which I highly doubt is warranted... just make public player "tax" revenue equal to its expenses and keep it at $0... or don't let the massive negative cash balance bother you :)

Offline Ters

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2014, 05:42:11 PM »
Deficits!  Something our governments know a thing or two about.

That's just the name of the phenomenon I described, not what such a situation leads to in practice.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2014, 04:24:15 PM »
For the record, I, for one, have always wanted to see Simutrans gain more SimCity-like features, to have the best of both worlds. :)

Offline Ters

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2014, 04:55:01 PM »
I just fear it would end up as the mediocre of both worlds. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2014, 04:03:35 AM »
Well, to be honest, we're not that far away from a city building simulator anyway... If you could enable a mode that would only grow cities into reserved tiles (reserved by public service player), then they could lay out cities and let them expand normally...

Perhaps in such a case, power provided to cities might increase their growth. Probably a billion other ideas would happen, as there are always ideas on what to add anyway, but that doesn't mean they'd have to be added. heh.

The major pain of playing Simutrans as SimCity right now is mostly the growth of cities - expanding by placing each building individually right now is tedious. But possible.

Offline BBGunn

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2014, 02:13:20 AM »
I find myself using public service more and more extensively.  It's just kind of based on what I see in real life.

*I have public service build all the major automobile roads between cities.  I haven't heard of many real-life transport companies that build major highways between cities.  Those are built either by governments or companies that deal with building toll roads and the like.
*I have public service build all the airports for the same reasons as the above point.
*I have public service build transfer stations between two or more transport companies when playing with multiple companies.

That's about it.  Other uses of the public service depend on the map I'm playing and the storyline I've created.  In the story in my current save, the newly independent national government, in order to foster economic development, is underwriting a major arterial railroad connecting the major cities on the main island.  Trains from any of the companies will be able to use that line, but if they want to build more lines, they need to do it themselves.

Offline isidoro

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2014, 11:40:32 PM »
I follow a very similar path.  Basic standard quality ways are built by the public service.  If a company needs or can afford a more expensive alternative, it just builds it.


Offline Ters

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2014, 04:52:31 AM »
I'm just too lazy to switch to public player and back just because it's natural for the government (or just someone else in general) to build roads (outside by truck terminals) and airports, or also railroads in the time and place I'm used to.

Offline BBGunn

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2014, 03:51:01 AM »
I'm just too lazy to switch to public player and back just because it's natural for the government (or just someone else in general) to build roads (outside by truck terminals) and airports, or also railroads in the time and place I'm used to.
Yeah, that's true.  It is a lot of work to switch players, and there is something to be said for the separation of game life and real life. 

To be honest, this is a way for my companies to be more profitable, as the public player assumes maintenance costs for roads.  If it is realistic, then it is okay, in my mind.  I do this to allow myself to build the "transportation network of my dreams."  I find that making a profit in pak128 is mutually exclusive from building the ideal network - at least at first.  If you build in order to make profit, your transportation networks tend to look "ugly", but if you try to build a great network, you go bankrupt rather quickly.  Obviously, after years of building for profit, you can take all the money you've earned and then build the transportation network of your dreams, but that requires demolishing and rebuilding some lines, which takes time.

mph1977

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Re: usage of public service
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2014, 05:06:17 PM »
I typically use the public service player at the beginning of a game to fine-tune the map. change cities, remove obstructions that keep them from growing, introduce new ones to hinder them, make mountains or lakes more interesting, connect lakes to provide new options, build more interesting rivers systems, move industry to reflect reality (coalmines to hills, steel mills to rivers), rename the largest cities to geographically sensible ones (easier to remember glasgow and edinburgh are in the north, and Shrewsbury is the most important capital in the world)

after that initial phase i rarely use the public player:
-- change something at stations i made public before to interface with different transport companies
-- remove terrain modifications made by a bankrupt company
-- replace stupidly spawned industries
-- fix very awkward roads at cities (diagonal intercity roads lead to ugly results when cities grow)

i'd agree with that , i tend to 'tidy up' the  road layouts of  the towns/ cities at the beginning of play  and may  clean up extraneous  city roads  as well

I also use the public player to build major roads and  the core railway network

i'll also use it to 'make up'   industries with incomplete  chains or  as the aobve poster said where it spawns in a 'stupid' location