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Updated application icons

Started by Max-Max, September 12, 2013, 11:30:58 PM

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Max-Max

I have updated the Simutrans application icon to the current format for Windows and Mac.

The icon for Windows contains these icon sizes:
256x256 (compressed)
64x64
48x48
32x32
24x24
16x16
All in RGB/A, If you require 256 colour versions, just let me know. These sizes covers both Windows Classic, Windows Vista and newer icon formats.
The Windows zip can also be downloaded in the file section as Simutrans_WinApp.zip

The OS X icon sizes are:
1024x1024 (compressed)
512x512 (compressed)
256x256 (compressed)
128x128
32x32
16x16
All in RGB/A. I do not own a Mac so I can't test these Icons. I got the size spec. from Apple's design guide.
The OS X Zip file is to big to post here, but can be downloaded in the file section as Simutrans_OSXAPP.zip

Let me know what you think...
I propose that we replace the outdated version with these new ones.

***EDIT***
I also have some proposals for MakeObject application, .pak, .tab, .sav and .nut files if there is an interest.
Since Simutrans doesn't register it's file extensions, this has to be done by the installer (.msi for windows) and equivalent for Mac.
I have written file registrations for windows before, but that is highly Windows specific and I don't know how it works on Mac and Linux.
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

prissi

Thank you for the Icons. I assume Win2k can still use those?

Simutrans does not register it files, since it cannot run these at all. There are applications (like tab) which maz be already bound to on editor (on my machine), which is not a bad thing.

I have written such handler too (I am probably the only one who uses his own DVI viewer on windows for LaTeX). If registration is wished for, it could go into simsys_w, ince this constains only window code. Or it can go to simsys and then some and ifdef __WINDOWS__ or so.

Max-Max

I assume it would work on Win2K as well... I have included all the recommended sizes. Classic for the versions prior Vista and the sizes used from Vista and up...

When it comes to registering file extensions, we could simply have a checkbox for each file extension we want to register with Simutrans. In the registration we only need to add the verb open to have simutrans start with the selected file (you can add params to the verb).

Can you start Simutrans with a saved game correctly? Will it automatically load the PAK used in the save game?
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

Fabio

I was thinking to register. sve files to "%path%\simutrans.exe -load %1"
It might open directly a saved game.

prissi

No simutrans does not start with the savegame filename only, you need to specify "-load xxx.sve" to load. Moreover, windows would try to run simutrans in the savegame directory. You could, of course, have a batch file connected with sve, which then loads simutrans with a proper commandsline form the correct directory.

Personally however, I dislike software that does something to my installation without me explicitly asking for it to do. So maybe the best place is the installer, which could generate a batch file to start simutrans from sve, and maybe even a -pakautodetect parameter. The latter is almost trivial. This could still fail if addons were required, or it is a complete different paksetversion, or the savegame is still too old and did not yet include the pak string, or it is an experimental savegame ...

VS

First, the save needs to be loaded with its pakset. Does that work already?

Then there is this small problem, SVE is a rather generic extension, just like SAV, GME, and so on...

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

prissi

#6
The savegame dialogue already extracts the pak string. Hence it would be very easy that simutrans (on having a -load string specified) extract this string from the filename, if no pak is given.

About SVE extension: I am with VS, I had encountered at least two programs claiming it for them. On was a packer.

EDIT: added pak detection to simmian when called without "-objects"

Max-Max

Quote from: prissi on September 14, 2013, 11:41:35 AMAbout SVE extension: I am with VS, I had encountered at least two programs claiming it for them. On was a packer.
I don't know how this works on Mac or Linux, but Windows isn't restricted to a 3 character extension.

Some suggestions for save extension:
.sgs      (Simutrans Game Save)
.sga      (Simutrans Game)
.sgame    (Simutrans Game)
.simsave
.gam      (Game)
.save    (maybe to generic?)

Let me also remind all of you that registering the extension should be voluntary, not mandatory.
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

prissi

Back to the icon: A closer inspection revealed lots of differences to the SVG, like the yellowish tree or the stripes on the egnie. Did you use the SVG at all?

Max-Max

Nope, I made my own SWG. Is there another SVG for download somewhere?
Just give me the link and I can make a set of new ones...

***EDIT***
Another SVG similar to the one I draw. The one you posted is bigger, or do you want that one as Icon? It will not look too good in smaller sizes.
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

prissi

It is where all simutrans logos are derived from. Obiously there was only the right half used. But I though ICO is a bitmap format, so SVG is only used to create the bitmaps then?

Max-Max

Yes for Windows and Mac, I believe Linux can use SVG as icons.

But no problem, as long I know what image to use I can make new icons.
Usually the smallest icon sizes look different due to readability, while the largest ones can have more details added.

Maybe we should use the whole SVG and add the text Simutrans beneath it for 256 and up?
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

prissi

Well, the current ICO was handdrawn after the scaled down SVG.

FOr lerger size one may use the whole image; but I am a bit sceptical about the text. I never saw icons with the name of a program so far.

Ters

Quote from: prissi on September 19, 2013, 08:24:15 PM
I never saw icons with the name of a program so far.

Dosbox has the name in the icon, and I'm sure I've seen other. They were likely all cases where the logo essentially was the name written in some fancy way, though. Quite a few have the name's initials in the icon. Dosbox's name is so short that it works. I don't think it does for Simutrans, nor does Simutrans have recognizable initials. Simutrans has a logo that is recognizable without the text.

Max-Max

#14
I know a lot of programs and games that has either the name or initials in their icons.
As you can see in the examples I posted here the largest versions are much more detailed than smaller which are more simple.

This is also the recommended way for both OS X and Windows (in the design guides).

Simutrans full logo is rectangular and icons are square. The text makes the logo a little bit taller to fill out the icon better.
It is of course only suitable to add text in the larger formats where it is readable.

As you can see The text is only added for the 256x256 version and only visible if you use the large icon mode in Windows.
The OS X version Use this style from 256 up to 1024.
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

Ters

The suitability of text in an icon depends a bit on the context. If an icon is used on its own, like the Windows task bar in Vista style, or perhaps a Win8 start screen (I don't remember if it had labels), text in the icon works (I still use Win95 style task bar). When the icon appears along with text, such as on the start menu or desktop, the text appears twice, which seems a bit silly.

(Some of those game icons look like they just took the box cover art and shrank it, without actually trying to adapt to the size and context. I've got a handful of such "icons" in the Games folder, and they look far worse than the Simutrans logo with text. What were they thinking?)

Max-Max

The text is only shown in 256x256 and up. Win95 don't even support this and all other Winows versions don't use the 256x256 in the taskbar or window caption, so you will be safe there ;)


I do need to add the 256 colour and 24bit versions as well for older windows systems.
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Fabio

Most icons are squared. You cold check with An_dz who worked heavily on logos, including a square iOS icon...

prissi

I am still undecided. Could you show the text version and the cutted version side by side.

Personally, I think rectgular like icons are more pretty. And at least some of the "professional" ones are really ugly.

Max-Max

#19
Remember this is the layout for 256x256 and up. In Windows you must turn on the Large View to see this version (and how many people really use the large view in the file explorer, except for pictures?)

Quote from: prissi on September 20, 2013, 04:46:35 PM
Personally, I think rectgular like icons are more pretty. And at least some of the "professional" ones are really ugly.
I showed them not because they where pretty, I only wanted to show that they don't need to look the same across all sizes and that it isn't uncommon to have the application name in them.

A rectangular icon, such as the full Simutrans logo, creates a lot of negative space, which is something designers and photographers try to avoid. By adding the text the negative space is reduced.
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

Ters

Apart from the fact that it's difficult to see that the train is a train, I like the leftmost the most. Even with the text, the full width logo has lots of empty space.

Still, the full width logo with text might be most suited for the right hand panel in the Game browser in Windows Vista/7. I'm a bit unsure how Windows decides what to show there, though. For a few games I have that predates Vista with about a decade, Windows still manages to display the box cover. It then also uses that for the icons in the Game browser, although those games have different icons on the Start menu that are more suited for icons.

prissi

Hmm, I still find the leftmost pretty, or rather the others too empty. Also with text, it is still lots of empty space. If a log with text, that rather something derived from the german logo:
https://a.fsdn.com/con/app/proj/simutrans/screenshots/146952.jpg

jamespetts

I have to say, I am rather a fan of the Pak.German logo in Prissi's last post.
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

Max-Max

Is the German logo available as SVG?
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prissi

No Alexander Brose drawn it pixel by pixel. Here the international version without jpg pixel ...

EDIT: Just found my old log folder. Here are some other tries:

An_dz

Quote from: Fabio on September 20, 2013, 03:42:15 PM
Most icons are squared. You cold check with An_dz who worked heavily on logos, including a square iOS icon...
Thanks for the mention Fabio.

I would use, and am using on my builds, my square logos. The mac logo is not cool. It's better to use one logo for everything. Here are the downloads (Nightly included):

Windows:
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/SimutransLogos.7z

Mac:
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/SimutransLogosMAC.7z

SVGs on my signature.
Or on http://simutrans.com/resources (only standard)

Max-Max

Looks great!!

The German logo is something I had in mind for a new logo. It shows the diversity of transport types, not only trains.
An_dz's logo looks great, far better than my attempts ;) I really like the idea of a special nightly logo...
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prissi

It is only for the large size (64x64), soe for the smaller once, I would just use the current cutted you did before. Coudl you merge them into a single ICO file?

Max-Max

Yes, I can make icon files for both Windows and Mac.
So if I get you right, "My" cut version from 16x16 and An_dz icon from 64x64 and up (1024x1024 for Mac OS X)?

Since An_dz's icons are in SVG I could make them all from his version.
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

prissi

I am not sure round corners look nice in 16x16 ... but why not.

Max-Max

Alright, I will use An_dz's icon for all of them. The 16x16 usually needs some manual retouch anyway...
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

An_dz

Quote from: prissi on September 22, 2013, 08:37:42 PM
I am not sure round corners look nice in 16x16 ... but why not.
Just look forum and portal favicons.
Quote from: Max-Max on September 22, 2013, 08:55:40 PM
The 16x16 usually needs some manual retouch anyway...
The nightly ico and icns I provided have manual retoutch for 64x and below.

prissi

Yes, and I like the quarter circle more for the small sizes.

Max-Max

@An_dz

I did reduce your Windows Icons a bit. For example, a 256x256 in 256 colours isn't supported in any of the Windows versions. So I removed the sizes and colour versions not specified by Microsoft for an application icon. I have not rescaled or changed any pixels, only removed the some formats.

Do you have more application icons for Release candidate and debug? :P
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

prissi

If you attach your final version, I could put it into the SVN ...

An_dz

Quote from: Max-Max on September 27, 2013, 01:17:37 AM
@An_dz

I did reduce your Windows Icons a bit. For example, a 256x256 in 256 colours isn't supported in any of the Windows versions. So I removed the sizes and colour versions not specified by Microsoft for an application icon. I have not rescaled or changed any pixels, only removed the some formats.
Sorry to say but you're wrong. "Icon files require 8-bit and 4-bit palette versions as well, to support the default setting in a remote desktop."

There's also a note that 40x40 format is recommended for crisper look on Alt+Tab.

Quote from: Max-Max on September 27, 2013, 01:17:37 AM
Do you have more application icons for Release candidate and debug? :P
We can use the "Experimental Icon", I made the icon but later figured it doesn't fit Simutrans Experimental.

Max-Max

Under the nice colour picker image we can read:
-"Only a 32-bit copy of the 256x256 pixel image should be included, and only the 256x256 pixel image should be compressed to keep the file size down."

Sure we can add all sizes that Windows automatically does by itself, scaling between 32 and 256 with pretty good result. As long it doesn't add anything to the quality of the image I don't see why we should add them. The icon files can be quite big if all sizes and colour versions are added.

Anyway, you are the artist and it is your icon, you decide ;)

QuoteWe can use the "Experimental Icon", I made the icon but later figured it doesn't fit Simutrans Experimental.
Since a release candidate is between a nightly and a release, I was thinking of the Simutrans icon with a sunrise :) What do you think?

...and one overlay image for debug compiled maybe?
I'm writing the resource script so it will use different application icons depending on the compile settings such as Debug, and Simutrans versions (nightly, release candidate and release).
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

kierongreen

8 and 4 bit versions really won't add much to filesize. Not that I'd like to try and use Simutrans over remote desktop!

An_dz

Quote from: Max-Max on September 28, 2013, 02:19:56 AM
Under the nice colour picker image we can read:
-"Only a 32-bit copy of the 256x256 pixel image should be included, and only the 256x256 pixel image should be compressed to keep the file size down."
Thanks, should have read fully.

Quote from: Max-Max on September 28, 2013, 02:19:56 AM
Since a release candidate is between a nightly and a release, I was thinking of the Simutrans icon with a sunrise :) What do you think?
Nice idea. Night -> Dawn -> Day

Quote from: Max-Max on September 28, 2013, 02:19:56 AM
...and one overlay image for debug compiled maybe?
Don't get it. Can't we use the experimental icon?

Ters

Quote from: kierongreen on September 28, 2013, 02:38:52 AM
8 and 4 bit versions really won't add much to filesize. Not that I'd like to try and use Simutrans over remote desktop!

One might still see the icon if one logs remotely onto a machine that is used to play Simutrans locally.

Max-Max

#40
Quote from: Ters on September 28, 2013, 07:44:25 AM
One might still see the icon if one logs remotely onto a machine that is used to play Simutrans locally.
If there isn't a 4 or 8 bit available, Windows will generate one. How ever I'm not opposing the 4- or 8- bit versions, just the not so common sizes...

***EDIT***
@An_dz
The Simutrans versions Release, Release Candidate and Nightly are set by a define in the code. When compiling the target can be release or debug where debug adds debug information. Any of the Simutrans versions can be compiled as a debug version.

To easily see if  the target was a release or debug I was thinking to put an debug overly on each of the 3 Simutrans icons.
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

prissi

I always release debug builds on sourceforge, so an overlay would not make sense.

Max-Max

#42
Quote from: prissi on September 28, 2013, 08:10:10 PM
I always release debug builds on sourceforge, so an overlay would not make sense.
Does every one know that it is a debug build? And if you have one release build and one debug build, how do you tell the difference ???
It makes sense for anyone working locally and debugging before a patch is created. A debug version can slow down the code and it is good to be able to see why Simutrans runs slower than usual...  :o

***EDIT***
Another way to do it is to add (debug) after the version "Version 112.4 Sep 28 2013 r990:991M (debug)" (in fact this is what I usually do in all software I write). The release target will not have anything added...

Maybe this is better than the icon overlay...
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

prissi

I release debug builds for several reasons (they are optimised debug builds, so slowdown is not so bad) Main reason is that some debug messages are not printed, and assertions are off. This make "simutrans is crashing" postings very difficult to remote debug (or find out if a new bug was discovered).

Max-Max

@Prissi

I wasn't questioning why you posted a debug version, that is quite logical. I just wanted to be able to tell if the Simutrans.exe was a release or debug build by adding "(debug)" after the version info in the banner.

@An_dz
QuoteNice idea. Night -> Dawn -> Day
Is this something you are working on? Should I wait for it?
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

Ters

Quote from: Max-Max on September 28, 2013, 09:38:37 PM
I just wanted to be able to tell if the Simutrans.exe was a release or debug build by adding "(debug)" after the version info in the banner.

I don't build Simutrans as debug or release (always debug, so I can hook up the debugger immediately), but as optimized or non-optimized (rarely the latter). So for me, I'd want something indicating that.

Max-Max

Quote from: Ters on September 28, 2013, 09:46:39 PM...but as optimized or non-optimized (rarely the latter). So for me, I'd want something indicating that.
Is there an automatic define for it, like _OPTIMIZED?
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

Ters

Quote from: Max-Max on September 28, 2013, 10:23:18 PM
Is there an automatic define for it, like _OPTIMIZED?

Probably not, and I don't think there is for debug either. You have to explicitly send that define to the compiler from the build system. IDEs might include this in their default debug profiles, but that's only an IDE thing and may not apply to custom profiles.

There are also multiple optimization and debug levels. (Not so sure about the latter for MSVC, though.)

Max-Max

MSVC defines _DEBUG (debug) and NDEBUG (release) if you make a new project. However the _DEBUG also makes the MSVC compiler to link a debug class and generates a link error in the current Simutrans code.

Since we already have a DEBUG we can use that one instead, but how is it used? AFIK Prissi always compile debug versions, even for release. The question is can we detect the target; debug,release, with the current defines we have?
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Ters

The problem is that what you write might be unique to MSVC. On GCC debug macros are defined by the project (in this case Simutrans) in its build system for use in its own use in its own headers. Including debug symbols is controlled via a command line switch, which according to http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7998100/does-gcc-define-anything-when-g-is-specified doesn't reveal its activation to the code. Linking to debug versions of libraries is controlled by explicitly linking to debug version of libraries, in other words specifying -lfoobar_d (if the debug version is called libfoobar_d.a) rather than -lfoobar on the command line. All these things can be done independently of eachother. One can define DEBUG to, lets say, activate verbose logging, yet still make an executable without debug symbols or linking against debug versions of libraries.

Max-Max

Yes, that was what I said, that we already have a #define DEBUG in the Simutrans code and it would be better to use that one. I guess that gcc, just like most compilers, can set a define from the command line.

Since Prissi (and I guess other gcc users) do, use a make file to compile it would be possible for this to work on all platforms. What I don't know is how we can see the difference between a debug and a release target version. The DEBUG define can have a value, is this value set to something specific for a release target?
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

Ters

There are two DEBUG flags in the Simutrans project, which as slightly releated:

Within the code, DEBUG turns on verbose logging and assertions. According to the Makefile, it's either on or off, although there are a few #ifs that checks if DEBUG is greater than or equal to some value.

The other DEBUG flag is in the Makefile. If defined, it sets the first DEBUG flag in the code and adds the compiler flag for debug symbols. Higher values for DEBUG "gradually" disable optimizations.

So the big question is what makes a debug release a debug release? Is it the presence of debug symbols, the presence of verbose logging, both? The Makefile build will make it both, but the code contains clues that sometimes the DEBUG flag within the code is customized to not work as normal. But as Prissi writes, all releases are made with debug symbols and verbose logging on (though not with optimizations turned off). A true debug release in Simutrans would be one in which optimizations are also disabled, which the code won't know about, or with the verbose trace logging turned on, which the Makefile doesn't seem to support out of the box.

An_dz


Fabio

Sweet! :thumbsup:

But dawn imho should have whiter smoke and the headlamp on...

Dwachs

Parsley, sage, rosemary, and maggikraut.

An_dz

Quote from: Fabio on October 02, 2013, 07:50:35 AM
But dawn imho should have whiter smoke and the headlamp on...
Agree, will do.... Tomorrow, gotta sleep zzzzzz....

Max-Max

- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

Fabio

Another though. 32*32 should be the smallest scale, 24*24 and 16*16 icons could be cropped instead of scaled (the bottom right corner and whatever else fits in the icon).

prissi

Hmm, those look to Smartphonish for me. Somehow I like the semicircle more.

Sarlock

Apple icons :)

I like them...  Nice work!
Current projects: Pak128 Trees, blender graphics

Ters

Quote from: Sarlock on October 02, 2013, 03:05:36 PM
Apple icons :)

Made me think that we might need a fully square icon for Windows 8 Start Screen. (No that I plan using that version in the foreseeable future.)

An_dz

Windows 8 tiles always use the 64x64 icon when using a non-metro (non-shop) app.


Ters

Quote from: An_dz on October 03, 2013, 05:02:21 AM
Windows 8 tiles always use the 64x64 icon when using a non-metro (non-shop) app.



It should really use a bigger icon if possible, but 128x128 is perhaps not in the standard and automatically downscaling a 256x256 might give a too ugly icon.

A quick google revealed that there are apps for creating Modern-looking tiles for starting desktop applications. For Simutrans to really blend in, it would however need a monochrome icon.

prissi

The semicircle with a black background would be a matching starting icon for the App. Is there any way to determine the background color?

Max-Max

@Prissi

I think you can use An_dz icons straight as they are. I have modified the resource script to select the right icon depending the build; nightly, candidate and release.

Here is the new resource script and the icon files it will look for are;
Simutrans_nightly_winapp.ico
Simutrans_candidate_winapp.ico
Simutrans_release_winapp.ico


When it comes to Mac, I have no idea of how this is done so someone with a Mac might be able to modify the Mac files...
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

An_dz


Max-Max

Quote from: An_dz on October 04, 2013, 01:34:04 AM

Oohhh... the right one was really minimalistic and nice, reel Win8 feel...  :thumbsup:
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

Ters

Quote from: Max-Max on October 04, 2013, 04:16:52 AM
Oohhh... the right one was really minimalistic and nice, reel Win8 feel...  :thumbsup:

Looks a bit cloud-like, though. Would it become too cluttered it there were thin lines representing the headlamp and/or wheels?

IgorEliezer

Quote from: Ters on October 04, 2013, 04:45:01 AM
Would it become too cluttered it there were thin lines representing the headlamp and/or wheels?
I'd add the headlamp. It might enhance the character of the loco.

prissi

I still think that for smaller icon sizes the quarter circle is better recognized. The other icon is just a srtange blueish box, while shape could help. (Personally, I do not like the favicon at all, but I do not interfere with forum design.)

About the window8 icon. Could we have the tree and a track? Otherwise it is more like a flying blimp ...

And the last real stable we release was 88.10.5, all other were more or less release candidates although we do not call them. Just after two weeks without bad bugs the announcement was added to (stable).

An_dz

Updated RC logo as suggested by Fabio. I made the tree a little orange too for a better dawn feel.
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/SimutransRCLogos.7z



For Window 8:
I won't be putting effort on something uncertain with no support.

@prissi
I can enlarge the train and tree on the small icons.

Fabio

Now that I see it better, the sun is wrong. According to Simutrans standard left is west. It seems a train running away from sunset: a bad marketing choice. Could you try with the rising sun on the right, behind the tree?

Ters

Are we trying to market the release candidates? That may be a bad marketing choice in itself.

Max-Max

Quote from: Ters on October 04, 2013, 04:51:39 PM
Are we trying to market the release candidates? That may be a bad marketing choice in itself.
No we are not marketing it, just make it possible to see the difference between them. A release candidate is till a candidate not a full release...
- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

Ters

Quote from: Max-Max on October 04, 2013, 05:40:39 PM
No we are not marketing it, just make it possible to see the difference between them. A release candidate is till a candidate not a full release...

I just didn't bother to quote Fabio properly, who stated that it was a bad marketing decision for the release candidates to head out of the sunset, which implies that release candidates are being or should be marketed. It was also partly a joke.

Max-Max

- My code doesn't have bugs. It develops random features...

Fabio

Also mine was partly a joke, do not worry. ;-)

Yona-TYT


One question
What is Simutrans RC?? ???

Fabio