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Offline prissi

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #105 on: January 26, 2009, 03:15:19 PM »
I had a deeper look now. Most of the stuff imho belongs to waybuilder, it reülicates stuff already there. Here the version I indend to submit. (Number of rivers is now the square root of the number of towns). Again to clarify: THis is mostly your code cleaned up and made a little faster. Still some issues to fix are left.



Offline VS

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #106 on: January 26, 2009, 04:02:28 PM »
Two side comments, not directly related to the patch itself:
  • Intercity roads have hard times ;) In 128 are water crossings, so it works, but what about other paks?
  • Cities do not build bridges, so sometimes they are cut in half...

Offline Fabio

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #107 on: January 26, 2009, 04:17:26 PM »
  • Cities do not build bridges, so sometimes they are cut in half...

Could the cities build bridges? (with a patch) It would make sense. Most of RL cities grow along a river...


  • Intercity roads have hard times ;) In 128 are water crossings, so it works, but what about other paks?

Could intercity roads build bridges? IIRC, once upon a time, the waybuilder used to build bridges automatically. this would be great at least for starting intercity connections.

Offline The Hood

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #108 on: January 26, 2009, 04:58:21 PM »
I agree with Fabio - it seems daft that cities can't even build bridges over railways so they can't expand beyond the very thing bringing them economic prosperity!

Offline Fabio

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #109 on: January 26, 2009, 05:06:56 PM »
I agree with Fabio - it seems daft that cities can't even build bridges over railways so they can't expand beyond the very thing bringing them economic prosperity!

this is off topic: when i build a new railways line, i also provide a few bridges for the city to grow. Also in RL, a bridge over a railway can't be built without a previous agreement with the transport company. Totally different the issue with bridges: cities SHOULD (if not too hard to code) grow across rivers, and rivers are public, so the cities don't have to ask for permission  ;)

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #110 on: January 26, 2009, 05:11:45 PM »
About bridges - when rivers are represented as canals, the "bridge" is just a graphic for a level crossing, so, to the game, it is not building bridges - it is building level crossings. It would be good if it were possible to have a separate cost for these quasi-bridges, and to make them more expensive than level crossings for roads.

As to Prissi's calculation of the number of rivers - ought this not be set as one of the options in the "New World" dialogue, rather than being fixed as the square root of the number of towns?

Offline gerw

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #111 on: January 26, 2009, 05:19:05 PM »
I had a deeper look now. Most of the stuff imho belongs to waybuilder, it reülicates stuff already there. Here the version I indend to submit. (Number of rivers is now the square root of the number of towns). Again to clarify: THis is mostly your code cleaned up and made a little faster. Still some issues to fix are left.
Thank you for your reply. Indeed, I doubled some of the stuff from wegbauer (unconsciously). But with your changes it is not possible to merge rivers and let them have a bigger river delta or something like that.

Offline prissi

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #112 on: January 26, 2009, 05:24:23 PM »
It is possible, all depending on start end endpoint. A wider delta would be possible too. Also would be later contruction like with the waytool be possible ...

And intercity bridges are possible, since those roads belong to the public player. The only problem was, that with bridges the way search is much much slower.

Offline VS

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #113 on: January 26, 2009, 06:05:17 PM »
So a better solution is just to provide canal/road crossings for pak64.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #114 on: January 26, 2009, 07:22:50 PM »
About bridges - when rivers are represented as canals, the "bridge" is just a graphic for a level crossing, so, to the game, it is not building bridges - it is building level crossings. It would be good if it were possible to have a separate cost for these quasi-bridges, and to make them more expensive than level crossings for roads.

As to Prissi's calculation of the number of rivers - ought this not be set as one of the options in the "New World" dialogue, rather than being fixed as the square root of the number of towns?

I support this idea.
And IMHO the MAX length of a river should be set to half of the shortest side of a map (e.g. 512*512 -> 256)


And intercity bridges are possible, since those roads belong to the public player. The only problem was, that with bridges the way search is much much slower.

Well, if the new world routines are only cast at the beginning of the game, a long map generation wouldn't have effect on the normal gameplay...

Offline gerw

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #115 on: January 26, 2009, 08:16:37 PM »
And IMHO the MAX length of a river should be set to half of the shortest side of a map (e.g. 512*512 -> 256)
I think so, too. Long rivers become looking ugly.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #116 on: January 26, 2009, 09:18:51 PM »
I am not so sure about long rivers - there are many places in the world (most notably, the Amazon) in which rivers start near one coast, but go the "wrong" way, and end up crossing much of the country to find their way to the other coast. Perhaps the maximum length could be adjustable?

Offline prissi

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #117 on: January 26, 2009, 09:38:17 PM »
I would ask to focus first on the task of rivers per se. That there is an UI needed comes without question.

Offline gerw

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #118 on: January 26, 2009, 10:28:03 PM »
@prissi: Your routine will fail to create rivers on a map with mountain height 320 and roughness 6. This is caused by the fact, that the route of the river must have already the right shape.

With my code this is not necessary, since the river forms the landscape. But I think, this can also be done by wegbauer, if we include all my magic loops ;)

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #119 on: January 26, 2009, 10:35:26 PM »
OMG!...that picture looks awesome!!! this patch has become as popular as the overtaking fun patch..


P.S: count with me if you finally need graphics for waterfalls and springs...would be a pleasure to take part on this.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #120 on: January 27, 2009, 12:26:50 AM »
Ohh, I think that rivers are even better than overtaking ;-)

Offline sojo

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #121 on: January 27, 2009, 07:16:28 AM »
Can be at the beginning of the river a sea or a smaller part river?

PS. This looks very very nice.

Offline wernieman

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #122 on: January 27, 2009, 08:07:21 AM »
I make a special run with prissis patch .... I whant to see if it compile correct

somebody interessted to test?

Ore should I wait the next patch?

Offline sojo

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #123 on: January 27, 2009, 08:37:12 AM »

Offline wernieman

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #124 on: January 27, 2009, 08:44:05 AM »
What do you pay ....  8)

Offline gerw

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #125 on: January 27, 2009, 09:02:30 AM »
Ore should I wait the next patch?
If you can wait until evening, I will post a new version of prissis patch.

I think further, I will couple the number of rivers with the map size until we have a UI input for this.

Offline sojo

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #126 on: January 27, 2009, 09:05:24 AM »
What do you pay ....  8)
Here. You can have a lot of simuthanian Credits.

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #127 on: January 27, 2009, 09:24:21 AM »
What do you pay ....  8)

...... Is it enough with that?

Offline wernieman

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #128 on: January 27, 2009, 11:11:26 AM »
Look at http://patches.simutrans-germany.com/

But it is only "Prissis-Patch". If I should run an other Version ... cry

Importend:
I don´t testet it!

Edit:
But it is only the Program! So you need a full simutrans + PAK to run it
« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 11:43:41 AM by wernieman »

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #129 on: January 27, 2009, 12:08:42 PM »
Does Windows versions also include the patch?

Offline wernieman

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #130 on: January 27, 2009, 12:10:54 PM »
Jep .. I only forget to write it ....
every 4 Versions have the patch

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #131 on: January 27, 2009, 12:14:11 PM »
Thanks for the info, and for the compilations too.... ;D

Offline sojo

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #132 on: January 27, 2009, 01:50:51 PM »
I have it tried with pak96.comic. Very very nice.

One question: Can the rivers at the lowest level be bigger. Mayby 2 tiles or 3 tiles?

Offline IgorEliezer br

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #133 on: January 27, 2009, 02:00:26 PM »
I think river width should be in function of river length. The more long the river is, the more wider it will be. Not in function of altitude.

Offline sojo

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #134 on: January 27, 2009, 02:09:27 PM »
A long river have the same width like a short river.

But i think it should easy to say, if a river on level 1 or 0 ( I dont' know the levels) then it is 2 tiles width.

Offline IgorEliezer br

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #135 on: January 27, 2009, 02:29:29 PM »
A long river have the same width like a short river.

Nothing is born big ;) .

Offline Fabio

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #136 on: January 27, 2009, 03:30:46 PM »
Rivers for PAK 128 are READY!!!






what do you think?

Offline KrazyJay

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #137 on: January 27, 2009, 03:32:06 PM »
Looks great! Will there be a tool to change/modify those rivers?

Offline Fabio

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #138 on: January 27, 2009, 03:33:40 PM »
ATM they are only a new channel named river.
It's up to the DEVs to handle them. once i have a few more feedback, i'll post the sources...

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Rivers development
« Reply #139 on: January 27, 2009, 03:40:02 PM »
That looks very good! Do you have any screenshots of roads and railways crossing the rivers?