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Author Topic: Powerlines  (Read 6160 times)

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Offline pletiplot

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Powerlines
« on: November 17, 2013, 04:16:02 PM »
Hi,
I have a map which I begun long time ago (may be years). I built a big transport network and powerlines to all factories. Save game was converted from version to version many times. Now I can see that powerlines takes 3M monthly on maintenance, but revenue is only 100K. Is it normal state? What did I do wrong?

Offline whoami

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Re: Powerlines
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2013, 04:23:33 PM »
Which Simutrans version do you use? There had been a bug in maintenance cost assignment, solved in June, see http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=12503.0
Apart from that: it may be difficult to run a power network without losses, but it depends on the pakset, so: which one do you use? Other factors are: type of map (long lines for the same power output?), and the factories only consume power if they have work to do.

Offline pletiplot

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Re: Powerlines
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2013, 05:00:08 PM »
Sorry I forgot the pakset - it is standard pak64. I have pretty long lines, together they make one network. My version is 112.3 r6520. It is version from May so I think it is affected. It is the stable version from simutrans site. I think a version with such bug should be replaced.
Thank you for the information.

Offline Ters

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Re: Powerlines
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2013, 05:54:09 PM »
Unfortunately, Simutrans is probably in a worse state now than then. Half the game code has been turned inside out. I suspect it will be some time until a new stable is ready.

Offline Spacethingy

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Re: Powerlines
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2013, 06:15:52 PM »
If you're not happy with using the latest nightly builds, I think I've been using r6680 for some time now, so it's relatively stable, and has the electric bug fixed. Does anyone know where old nightly builds can be download?

Offline whoami

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Re: Powerlines
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2013, 06:39:42 PM »
I think a version with such bug should be replaced.
The bug is harmless, because the costs are only assigned to the wrong area. However, this might only partially explain the financial problems.

Offline prissi

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Re: Powerlines
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2013, 10:12:04 PM »
Bei a few version ago, power was only consumed, when actually something was to produce. Hence the income became much lower at that point. But that was before 112.3.

Offline pletiplot

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Re: Powerlines
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2013, 11:25:03 PM »
The power is consumed when factory is running. It is all right. My total maintenance is 56M anualy and 36M is powerlines. But all vehicles together have 368M earnings, but powerlines 0.7. So the problem is in the powerline maintenance as was said.
But still with the development - is simutrans in SVN? You can take one bug fix and "backport" it to the current stable version (and make something like 112.3.1). Maybe you should consider migrating to git or mercury or some other "second generation" versioning system, because SVN is not much elastic with that.


Offline whoami

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Re: Powerlines
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2013, 12:05:05 AM »
Backporting bugfixes to main releases have been suggested (also by me), but it seems not to have been important enough to set up the infrastructure for this. (For my part, I have recurring struggles with the changes to the build environment, so I now depend on the nightly builds.)
If the backport is as easy as applying the diff (that SVN generates) to the old file collection, no new versioning system is necessary, and if not, then I would not expect the newer systems to contain the magic/automation to understand the semantics and to adapt the source.

Offline pletiplot

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Re: Powerlines
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2013, 12:41:01 AM »
It was not the only reason od my economic decay - I had maximum_intransit_percentage set to 500 so some lines just did not work.
I do not know SVN much, I was using git, bazaar, darcs. They are "second generation" versioning systems. Once you see them, you will never want go back. The branch management is more smooth, you just make your branch for fixes and you can merge it to the rest of the tree.
I hope the bugfixes like that will go to main release once.

Offline Ters

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Re: Powerlines
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2013, 05:53:58 AM »
There are no VCS related reasons that Simutrans doesn't backport fixes, it's mostly about routines. The linear versioning of Simutrans' file formats make branches impossible in general, so Simutrans simply doesn't do branches. There is also the question of whether the development team has time to manage multiple branches.

That's how I understand the situation.

Offline greenling

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Re: Powerlines
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2013, 10:38:03 AM »
Hello All
I have view that here be talk over powerlines. I have now some thing for that i have fund an answer.
Can i make Powerlines with entry and re-traymet year?
Support simutrans more than one powerline pakfile?

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Powerlines
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2013, 06:12:33 PM »
Can i make Powerlines with entry and re-traymet year?
Support simutrans more than one powerline pakfile?
Yes to both: powerlines can have intro and retire year.

Offline greenling

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Re: Powerlines
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2013, 06:32:07 PM »
Hello Dwachs
It´s possibe the Timeline to use by a trafostation too?

Me fell up that over time not exchange the trafostation.
The first geration of trafos was not weatherproof.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Powerlines
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2013, 06:42:17 PM »
While powerlines, transformers, bridges and tunnels can have intro and retire dates I don't believe more than one of each for powerlines and transformers is supported as we have wegbauer_t::leitung_besch, skinverwaltung_t::pumpe and skinverwaltung_t::senke. Bridges and tunnels might be different.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Powerlines
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2013, 08:06:05 AM »
While powerlines, transformers, bridges and tunnels can have intro and retire dates I don't believe more than one of each for powerlines and transformers is supported as we have wegbauer_t::leitung_besch, skinverwaltung_t::pumpe and skinverwaltung_t::senke. Bridges and tunnels might be different.

One can have more than one powerline object available (and powerline bridge/tunnel).

@greenling: it is not possible currently to have timeline for these transformer stations. This would require some work.

Offline prissi

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Re: Powerlines
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2013, 10:19:47 AM »
pak64.japan has two powerlines ...