Getting odd bugs in version 11.14

[Jando]

Getting very odd bugs in my current game with version 11.14:

- Like a cargo train bringing goods (176 units of planks) that unload but don't show up in the station screen (no consumer at station), cargo vanishes.
- like a passenger train travelling A-B-C-B-A bringing passengers with destination C from B to A, then leaving A with only the passengers he brought to the station, with the passengers at the station waiting removed from the station but not getting on the train either.
- like empty trains pulling into a station with full load waiting, cargo gets removed from station but only partially shows up at cargo loaded onto the train.
- like another empty train pulling into a station with more than a full load waiting, train loads it's 176 units of food, but 220 units get removed from station.

That is all with a game played with version 11.13, prolly made with version 11.10 or so. Fast-forwarded the game for 2 months and operating profit dropped from a profit of around 100.000 per month to a loss of around 20.000. Something's not quite right. Possibly a problem with going from 11.13 to 11.14?

Edit: Catched screenshots of it:




First shot: train 79 pulls in at Monkford station, with 20 passengers waiting for Oakthorne, 86 passengers waiting in total.
Second shot: train 79 leaves Monkford Station, with 13 passengers boarded for Oakthorne, 29 passengers waiting in total left.
86 total passengers before train pulled in, 29 passengers in station and 13 on the train in 2nd shot: 44 passengers went missing.

Edit2: happens with all sorts of cargo, Saw it with passengers, bricks, planks, coal.
Edit3: save-game at http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Baringstone.sve

[jamespetts]

Thank you very much for the reports. I am currently staying with my parents for Christmas and do not have access to my usual development environment, so the fixes for these shall have to wait until I get home, I am afraid, in about two weeks.

However, in the meantime, it would help if you could give detailed steps to reproduce from your saved game (or a series of saved games) for each of the specific bugs listed, or, if applicable, the specific station names/convoy numbers in which they are about to occur so that I can track all of them down.

Thank you very much for your reports, and sorry that you are having trouble.

[Junna]

I've had some oddities as well, the total number of goods transported dropped suddenly by almost half.

[Jando]

Hello James, no need to be sorry, and I wish you a nice holiday.

As to the problem, it's not that easy I fear. It doesn't happen always, but happens frequently - and can happen at every station, for every train from what I've seen. I only needed a few minutes now to catch another train at another station with the same bug.

Here are 2 screenshots again, first one before the train pulls into the station, second one after it has loaded/unloaded. I've also included the "transported" graph for that train, you can clearly see the passenger numbers reaching rock-bottom after I switched to 11.14. Was quite a nice route, that train made good revenue.




Numbers should be clear. Train 109 pulls in at Pentingford Dock with 21 passengers, 185 passengers waiting at station, amongst them 107 for Monkford, the trains destination. When train 109 has finished loading it has 14 passengers on board with 8 passengers still at the station, thus around 150 passengers just vanished into the big bit-bucket.

Edit: And hello, Junna.

[Jando]

And additional information:

Bug has probably nothing to do with switching to 11.14 from a version 11.13 game. I just made a new map in 11.14, just 3 lines between neighbouring towns, 1 horse carriage per line and get the same bug of passengers vanishing.

[jamespetts]

Jando, can I ask - when loading the same saved game, does the same problem always recur in the same place, or does it seem to be random? If it always recurs in the same place, then it would be very helpful to know exactly where each problem will first occur after opening the saved game. This is because, in order to solve the problem, I have to find out exactly where in the code things are going wrong, and I do that by running the programme in a debugger and setting a breakpoint to trigger at just the moment when something is about to go wrong so that I can see exactly what values that all the relevant variables have and see what path is taken through the code to analyse exactly how it behaves; but this requires me to know precisely in advance where the problem will occur (for example, that one of these specific problems will occur when convoy no. 48 arrives at station X) to set the breakpoint with the correct conditions so that I can actually catch the incorrect behaviour as it occurs. If you are able to give instructions as to exactly where to look for each problem after opening the saved game that you have uploaded, this will save me very large amounts of time in fixing this when I get back home. Thank you!

[Jando]

Hello James!

I would even suggest to ignore the save I made earlier. I see the same bug on a newly made map in 11.14. Here's a screenhot of the entire network:



3 towns, 3 lines, 3 horse carriages, all of them show the bug.

[jamespetts]

The reason that it is helpful to have a saved game is that I need to be able to reproduce the exact same conditions over and over again as I test different parts of the code until I find each bug. You also refer to "the bug" above, but your original post actually refers to lots of different bugs (albeit they might all be symptoms of the same underlying coding error). It saves me a great deal of time if the work of finding exactly where in any given (saved) game the error can be reproduced is done before I start looking into the code. Would you be able to give me the detailed information that I requested in my previous post? I should be very grateful!

[Jando]

Sure, will do.

[Edit] I believe the "bug" is that wrong amounts of cargo get removed from a station when a vehicle loads/unloads there. I checked this newly made tiny network now, whenever a carriage loads at a stop where passengers are waiting to go to both of the two other possible destinations the carriage loads some of the passengers for it's own destination - and the passengers with the other destination vanish from the station.

When a carriage loads at a stop where only passengers for one destination are waiting things seems to be fine (or it happens less frequently).

More edit: here's a saved game from the newly made tiny network: http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Edingley.sve

To reproduce: give the game after loading it a bit of fast-forward (about 1 in-game hour should be plenty enough. I'm not sure but it seems to me that directly after loading the bug is less frequent), then after that look for any of the stations that has passengers for not one, but two of the other stations. And watch a horse carriage pick-up passengers there.

Of course you can do the same with the other save-game from earlier: http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Baringstone.sve

That's a lot more complex though, with dozens of trains and ships zipping around.

[jamespetts]

Thank you very much for narrowing down the problem like that: that is very helpful. This is almost certainly related to the new arrival time order loading code in 11.14. A saved game will be very helpful.

[Jando]

Edited my previous post to include saved games and additional ramblings from me.

[zook2]

Hi, same problem here. Only two trains on the map, the bug seems to happen ever time.

http://freakshare.com/files/d7diud7f/1.rar.html

BTW, thanks for all the hard work. It's appreciated!

Oh, and would it be possible to continue playing this map with an older version? If so, where can I find it?

[jamespetts]

My older versions I have archived on my computer at home, not, unfortunately, here where I am staying at present. If anyone has an older binary (11.13 should be the best), do feel free to upload it.

[Jando]

I uploaded my local copy of version 11.13 (only binaries) to http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Simutrans-Experimental-11.13.zip

Hope that works, did work for my current game after I reverted to a save-game from before I switched to 11.14. Good luck!

[zook2]

Thank you very much! Seems to work fine.

[Matthew]

This seems like a bug that makes the current version unworkable. Would it be worth adding a note to the announcement of 11.14 advising people to fall back to the 11.13 binaries supplied in this thread for the time being?

[MCollett]

Having just upgraded from 11.12 to 11.14 I have noticed that many passengers seem to be getting lost.  Here is an example:
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Ely_184000005_1841-07d.sve

Train (69) from Bedlington to Barnet is about to pull into Aldershot station: 13 passengers to intend complete their journey there, 45 to change to local buses and 29 to travel through to Barnet.  Waiting in the station are 4 passengers who should board this train (1 for Barnet and 3 for Spilsby), 45 for the next train in the opposite direction (to Bedlington) and 1 for a bus (to Newton-le-Willows).

But when the train is ready to depart: the 3 passengers for Spilsby have boarded but the 1 extra for Barnet has disappeared; 22 of the passengers for Bedlington have mistakenly boarded and the remaining 23 have disappeared; and of the 46 passengers who should now be waiting at the station for buses, all but 10 have disappeared (including the 1 who was already there).

Passengers boarding the train in the wrong direction may just be a transitory glitch due to insufficient or inaccurate travel and waiting time statistics, since this is a new service, but the disappearing acts are clearly a bug.

Best wishes,
Matthew

[jamespetts]

Is this the same issue as is reported here?

[MCollett]

Is this the same issue as is reported here?

Quite possibly - the symptoms seem similar.  In any case, I would say that it renders this version effectively unplayable.

Best wishes,
Matthew

[jamespetts]

I will be looking into this when I get a chance. Thank you for the report.

[jamespetts]

I have merged the two topics reporting the same bug, and also - I think - fixed it on the 11.x branch, although it is possible that there are multiple bugs and I have only fixed one of them in light of the multitude of symptoms reported (although I have not been able to reproduce any bugs after I applied the fix).

[jamespetts]

Fixes now available in released version 11.15. Thank you all for your patience.

[Jando]

...
- like a passenger train travelling A-B-C-B-A bringing passengers with destination C from B to A ...

I believe this happens in 11.15 as well. Seen it with both passengers and piece goods.

Train travels A-B-C-B-A. At it's first stop at B it will load passengers and cargo with destination A. Like a train going from Brighton via London to Manchester: at London passengers for Brighton will board but the train goes to Manchester.

Seems to happen on every vehicle with more than two stops.

[MCollett]

I believe this happens in 11.15 as well. Seen it with both passengers and piece goods.

Train travels A-B-C-B-A. At it's first stop at B it will load passengers and cargo with destination A. Like a train going from Brighton via London to Manchester: at London passengers for Brighton will board but the train goes to Manchester.

Yes, I have seen this too.  While 11.15 seems to have fixed the disappearances, passengers still routinely board trains going in the wrong direction.

Best wishes,
Matthew

[jamespetts]

Hmm, I have not had any luck reproducing this. I have set up a 'bus line between stops A>B>C>D, set to mirror route, I have put one 'bus on it. Looking at stops B and C, passengers for other stops only board when the 'bus is going in the right direction.

Can somebody provide more specific steps to reproduce or upload a saved game in which this problem is reproducible at a specific time and place? I should be very grateful.

[Jando]

Save game here, James: http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Baringstone11.15.sve

Watch train 90 or 113 (both on the) Pentingford-Baringstone-Kirkingpike-Winde line. Or train 259 (piece goods) on the Varllow-Perish-Malmere line.

Game is saved shortly before train 113 will pull into Kirkingpike North station. Good luck!

Edit: hmmm, my routes are not made with the mirror button, no idea whether that might have any relevance.

[jamespetts]

Ahh, I can reproduce this without the mirror route. Interesting. Investigating... (Edit: Now found and fixed on the 11.x branch - thank you for the report!)

Incidentally, was there a reason that you did not use the mirror schedule feature?

[Junna]

Ahh, I can reproduce this without the mirror route. Interesting. Investigating... (Edit: Now found and fixed on the 11.x branch - thank you for the report!)

Incidentally, was there a reason that you did not use the mirror schedule feature?

I have a tendency not to use that on train services to make sure they use the platforms I want them to, and in case of future changes.

[Jando]

I have a tendency not to use that on train services to make sure they use the platforms I want them to, and in case of future changes.

Same reason here. Additionally, with road traffic I try to make sure that vehicles don't get in the way of each other, thus waypoints from station to consumer are frequently different than waypoints on the way back.

[jamespetts]

This should now be fixed in 11.16