The International Simutrans Forum

 

Author Topic: [latest stable] InTransist Limiter  (Read 2920 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Teokryt

  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • Languages: PL, EN
[latest stable] InTransist Limiter
« on: January 06, 2014, 12:18:35 AM »
I have some troubles with "in transist" value.
In Factory table I see how many goods are "in transist" butt.. limiter of this value is too smal?
Example.
I have one Chemical Industry producing a printing ink which is delivered to printing house.
Printing house working at maximum boost at 3500 and consume tons of ink.  Ink is delivering from far chemical industry by ships. One Ship transport (pak64) 600 units of goods in one transport. Printing hous have "storage" limit at 100 units of ink. Many times I break storage limit when transport arrive.  Where is a problem? So, between start producing ink and arrive in to printing house, printing house stops work. I can't send more ink, because simutrans have "in transist" limit too smal. I can't send two full ships of ink with this limit (ship transport 550! units of ink and second ship stop, chemical industry stop producing ink). I solved this problem by using.... airplanes to transport ink in small packages but very fast. 5 airplanes tranport (25 units)  more ink than one ship (600units).

In transist and storage limit must be enlarged.

Sorry for english, may i post "exemplar save" with this problem...

Offline Ters

  • Coder/patcher
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 5532
  • Languages: EN, NO
Re: [latest stable] InTransist Limiter
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2014, 06:18:29 AM »
I know the problem, but I think it's part of the challenge in Simutrans to keep goods flowing in the right rate for the factories. Small storage capacities mean that the solution isn't always to use big vehicles. Sometimes you need small and fast vehicles. I think this is intentional, although it might make more sense for other types of goods than ink.

Now, this breaks down if the distance between producer and consumer becommes too big. But simply increasing storage capacity to handle distant producers would reduce the effectiveness of the restriction for nearby producers. Since a consumer may have a mix of nearby and distant producers, it's not easy to scale the limits according to the distance either.

Simply increasing the allowed in-transit amount partially negates the effect of small storage capacity, since vehicles will unload all their cargo even if the factory formally doesn't have the capacity to take it all. Changing this would break many existing games that rely on unloading to be a non-blocking operation.

Offline Teokryt

  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • Languages: PL, EN
Re: [latest stable] InTransist Limiter
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2014, 11:43:55 AM »
Ok. I understand it but...
I do nit have other ways to transport ink - only ships or air planes. But problem is not connected to transportation way. For example, when I send ink by roads with small trucks, inTransist heap will be exceed before truck deliver ink to printing house and stuck near chemistry. This situation generate a "hole" between transports od ink and printing house slowdown.
Why I can't add storages to station to expand factory storages? Similar troubles with other factory chains.  Car Shop may boost "sell" form 500 units to over 1200 units but storage not expand. That do annoying thing, I don't transport as many goods as car shop can sell. When inTransist limit exceed - factory STOP producing goods.
Diversity of goods not solving problem when factory chains demand goods from specific factory. I have very often Coal mine near coal power plant but coal power plant will consume coal from other far coal mine. Sometimes factory distribution drive me crazy.

Offline Ters

  • Coder/patcher
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 5532
  • Languages: EN, NO
Re: [latest stable] InTransist Limiter
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2014, 04:20:19 PM »
I have this problem myself, and not only with ink, although that's likely because I've turned maximum supplier-consumer distance up way higher than pak64 is designed for.

Why I can't add storages to station to expand factory storages?

Probably because that's not how the real world works. It's the consumer's responsability to have enough storage capacity and order new supplies in good time. The carrier, that is you the player, only picks up what needs transporting and delivers it at the destination.

However, prissi knows better than me why things are the way they are.

Offline Teokryt

  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • Languages: PL, EN
Re: [latest stable] InTransist Limiter
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2014, 05:16:52 PM »
Quote
Probably because that's not how the real world works.
too small storage capacity generate high costs of transport.
In real world, when company developing and produce more goods, build local storages to preserve continue production.
for example, real ironworks has large furnaces which don't stop work because when it stop than breakdown furnace for a long time.
PAK64 ironwork has too small source storages.
Pak128 is better but.. production offers to small supply. On same map I had 4 coal mines and one coal power plant. This coal power plant consuming whole coal which was mined and delivered to power plant. Power generated form power plant boosted coal production but... for few moments, because coal burned too quickly and power boost didn't produce more coal.

Offline Ters

  • Coder/patcher
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 5532
  • Languages: EN, NO
Re: [latest stable] InTransist Limiter
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2014, 05:41:48 PM »
In real world, when company developing and produce more goods, build local storages to preserve continue production.

That's what I'm saying. It's not the transport company's job building more storage space.

Offline prissi

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 9518
  • Languages: De,EN,JP
Re: [latest stable] InTransist Limiter
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2014, 09:55:23 PM »
An alternative would be a maximum in transient limiter based on the average distance between all suppliers. (Would not be hard to add.)

Offline Ters

  • Coder/patcher
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 5532
  • Languages: EN, NO
Re: [latest stable] InTransist Limiter
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2014, 06:27:49 AM »
An alternative would be a maximum in transient limiter based on the average distance between all suppliers. (Would not be hard to add.)

Although not perfect, it should at least help somewhat for some cases. I'm 100 % sure it will allow container ships full of ink to work smoothly. On one hand, I don't think anyone orders such huge amounts of ink in the real world, but on the other, time and distance aren't the same in Simutrans as in the real world. I actually don't think I have any dedicated ink lines. Ink is always transported mixed with other goods, except perhaps a few lorries, or sometimes alone on the return trip of whatever carries the finished books from the factory.

Offline whoami

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 693
Re: [latest stable] InTransist Limiter
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2014, 02:36:36 AM »
An alternative would be a maximum in transient limiter based on the average distance between all suppliers.
This sounds very good, although I would like this to be applied to the connected suppliers only.
Taking the speed of the connecting vehicles into account would not be so easy, I guess?

Offline prissi

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 9518
  • Languages: De,EN,JP
Re: [latest stable] InTransist Limiter
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2014, 08:17:40 PM »
The goods in transit forget their origin as soon as they are loaded (a t least in standard). Hence the in transit limiter would be something individual for each factory, recalculated every time a factory is connected or removed.

EDIT: The distance was not really well to balance. Now the intransit percentage applies to the sum of all output storages of the factories in question.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 12:09:43 AM by prissi »