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Author Topic: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental - Pak128.Britain-Ex 0.9.1  (Read 187382 times)

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Offline Carl

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A quick point of positive feedback on 11.23 -- it seems to eliminate the problems of inconsistency on performance that we discussed a few weeks ago (i.e. constantly jumping between speeds when fast forwarding).

Offline jamespetts gb

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Ahh, splendid! You have TurfIt to thank for that.

Offline VOLVO

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...

It does. The server is running so slowly that those with faster computers can end up running way ahead. The server does broadcast messages about it's current position when it's lagging, but that's not enough when faced with very fast clients. The timing algorithm could be changed to better handle this, but frankly if you're running a server, make sure it can handle things. i.e. The server should be the fastest. For reference, based on my observations of the servers progress, I'd estimate it as approximately a Core2Duo @3.0 GHz. Slow your computer down to that and you're much more likely to stay connected. Otherwise set client frames behind to an absurdly high value and accept the latency.

...
Just reconnected again after 11.23 upgrade. My computer is a 2.3GHz i3 notebook computer and still have a bit of jumping speed issue(Since my computer is slow), but it's a lot better than before.
So basically to achieve the best connection is for the client to have similar a performance as the server?

Thanks again for making the server smoother to play with once again.

Offline Carl

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Ahh, splendid! You have TurfIt to thank for that.
Indeed, many thanks TurfIt!

Offline TurfIt

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So basically to achieve the best connection is for the client to have similar a performance as the server?
Yes and no. The problem is really the server being massively overloaded. The server is configured to run at a certain rate, and then tells clients to run at that rate. But if the server doesn't actually achieve that, and the clients do, bad things happen - desync. The timing changes I made before help in the case where the server/clients are partially overloaded, but once the server can't keep up at all, all bets are off.

I just connected to see how the server is doing with the new version - still not very good. @jamespetts - I'd suggest changing to 7 fps, and 4 frames per step. And that might still be too fast for it...


Offline Sarlock

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Quote
i5-3317U, 4GB RAM, which is ramping up to 2.4Ghz with the server game
2.3GHz i3 notebook computer

Mine: i7-3770K @ 3.5GHz, 16 GB RAM

I suspect that's part of the reason I'm leading ahead of the server.

Update 11.23 has worked... I was able to stay connected for about an hour, which is the best I've been able to do in weeks.  Thanks, TurfIf and James!

Local play Fast Forward speed has jumped from 4-7x to about 7-14x, quite an improvement.

Offline VOLVO

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I have a question on your man-made islands, how did you build those houses?

Also, since the speed up of the server, I now start to desync more than I used to

Offline jamespetts gb

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I just connected to see how the server is doing with the new version - still not very good. @jamespetts - I'd suggest changing to 7 fps, and 4 frames per step. And that might still be too fast for it...

Now done - I should be grateful if people could let me know whether this makes any difference.

Edit: CPU usage is currently reported at 73.9%.
Edit 2: Memory at 48.4% of 3Gb.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 12:13:22 PM by jamespetts »

Offline Sarlock

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Volvo, I built the islands on cities that had pent-up growth with no place to put it - the city quickly grows in to any new area of land that you provide it, as long as new area lies within the city's limits (Feathervale and Upford are prime examples).  There are only a few cities that have growth that doesn't have room to expand, but I'm sure we'll have more and more of them as the years advance (we're only 50 years in to this game!).

Offline ӔO

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Yeah, the city growth is too fast and those city sizes are what I would expect to see in 1920~1960

Paving roads at the city borders is the best way to get them to expand.

Offline VOLVO

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A warm reminder for Mr. AP, your company is unlocked again.

Offline AP

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I'm rather lacking in free time this week (and weekend...) hence inattentiveness. Hopefully next week better...

Offline VOLVO

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Um.. Some very strange and questionable construction costs there I see.
And to the one(I'm assuming only one) who've also done it to Merceyside Postal Service,
I made that company and planned to operate Mail service on multiple player's network,
so I looked through the finance sheet every year. And compare with yours...



Qiw

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I just started playing simutrans.. I had to take a look at your server and i gotta say its **** impressive :D I dont get how you guys made it so far!

Offline jamespetts gb

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Welcome to the forums, and to Simutrans! May you have many hours of Simutransing fun.

Qiw

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Welcome to the forums, and to Simutrans! May you have many hours of Simutransing fun.

Haha thanks a lot :D I feel like its quite difficult to make profits on a consistent basis... :D

Offline jamespetts gb

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There is much to be said for observing and copying what successful players in the online game do. Good luck and happy playing!

Offline VOLVO

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So he is still doing this. Construction costs in unlocked inactive player uh?
I would only assume it's the active player who never show up on this forum. :::)




Haha thanks a lot :D I feel like its quite difficult to make profits on a consistent basis... :D

I think it's because of the slow moving ships that's causing the problems..
Nearly all of my routes shows up red in the line management.

Offline Sarlock

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Thank goodness for interest income or AP would be broke soon :)

Qiw: it will be more of a challenge to establish a profitable network at this point due to large sections of the map having heavy infrastructure in place.  I would avoid passenger/mail routes unless you are linking large urban areas together that are interlinked with feeder lines from nearby cities, otherwise you will not get the demand to have a profitable network set up.  Also be very conscious of monthly maintenance fees in early years, as the fixed price upkeep of stations, etc, will quickly break your company unless you have the profits to offset them.

There are plenty of industrial connections that are unlinked that can lead to some nice profits if built properly... especially in the south-west part of the map and to the central islands... both of which are largely untouched by players (north-west island is heavily built-up, as is most of the eastern island, which is where my company, Pacific Transport, is primarily operating).

As an aside, it took me about 10 game years to build up a profitable passenger/mail network.  Until that point, it was being subsidized by industrial hauling profits.  Now I derive about 2/3rds of my profits from mail/passengers.  I had to connect enough cities to generate enough traffic volume as well as wait for the cities to grow large enough to generate significant amounts.  After 50 years of growth, the cities I've connected on the eastern island represent nearly all of the top 50 cities on the map.

Offline VOLVO

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Thank goodness for interest income or AP would be broke soon :)

Qiw: it will be more of a challenge to establish a profitable network at this point due to large sections of the map having heavy infrastructure in place.  I would avoid passenger/mail routes unless you are linking large urban areas together that are interlinked with feeder lines from nearby cities, otherwise you will not get the demand to have a profitable network set up.  Also be very conscious of monthly maintenance fees in early years, as the fixed price upkeep of stations, etc, will quickly break your company unless you have the profits to offset them.

There are plenty of industrial connections that are unlinked that can lead to some nice profits if built properly... especially in the south-west part of the map and to the central islands... both of which are largely untouched by players (north-west island is heavily built-up, as is most of the eastern island, which is where my company, Pacific Transport, is primarily operating).

As an aside, it took me about 10 game years to build up a profitable passenger/mail network.  Until that point, it was being subsidized by industrial hauling profits.  Now I derive about 2/3rds of my profits from mail/passengers.  I had to connect enough cities to generate enough traffic volume as well as wait for the cities to grow large enough to generate significant amounts.  After 50 years of growth, the cities I've connected on the eastern island represent nearly all of the top 50 cities on the map.
He probabaly will bankrupt faster than it's meant to because someone is using his money to build canals and raise lands..
I've locked the companies (Ex Insulis Co. is also having the same issue so I locked it as well) with a password.
The password is the company who's most likely used that money to build things.. (No capital letter, no space) (He apparently doesn't use this forum)

Offline AP

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This whole unlocking companies thing is clearly very open to abuse. I mean, if a company is running at a profit (which it was...) why unlock them at all?? If no player action is necessary ( and a few of us said we were't expanding to allow other players a chance, we're just waiting for 1830), then it's hardly a crime to be inactive. Some of us do have real lives, strange as it may seem... :o

Volvo, please can you PM me the password to my company, I'll try and jump on in the next couple of days to review/assess the damage. Once I've updated my simutrans to the latest etc.

Thank goodness for interest income or AP would be broke soon :)
Not entirely a coincidence :D I don't need/want vast cash reserves, once I passed $40M I decided to stop the fund growing, just build the new infrastructure I could afford to maintain.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 07:21:45 PM by AP »

Offline ӔO

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^some of your most profitable ships got stuck, which is why you were doing negative for a few years.

Offline jamespetts gb

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The reason to unlock rather than simply rely on bankruptcy is that there used to be companies where people had made a small start, hardly used up any of their reserves, then abandoned things, and either the single 'bus line (etc.) that they were running was just scraping a profit, or the interest from what remained of their reserves outbalanced any tiny loss that they were making and a company slot was used up when nobody had been playing that company for (real life) months. If anyone can think of a way of addressing this problem with fewer side effects than unlocking, I should be interested in suggestions (which would apply equally to Standard, too, since the system is the same there).

Offline Sarlock

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Without the free time at the moment to flip back and verify, wasn't the inactive period significantly extended to 20+ years?  We're barely moving ahead 1 game year/real life day at a time, so this is 20 real life days... which is certainly plenty of time to pop in and play for 5 minutes to check on things.  (like freeing stuck ships)

Offline AP

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Without the free time at the moment to flip back and verify, wasn't the inactive period significantly extended to 20+ years?  We're barely moving ahead 1 game year/real life day at a time, so this is 20 real life days... which is certainly plenty of time to pop in and play for 5 minutes to check on things.  (like freeing stuck ships)
Sounds a long time. Think maybe I was caught by the inability to connect problem (hopefully fixed now), if others were playing on? Possibly also that if you connect, browse around, but don't see anything needing doing, you don't get asked to log in.

Offline VOLVO

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I think ther server has crashed again?

Offline ӔO

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probably an infinite loop caused by line 40.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Line 40?

Edit: I had earlier restarted the server and taken the opportunity to upgrade it to the latest version of Ubuntu, but it seems to have failed again. AEO - are you referring to a particular line of code?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 11:59:01 AM by jamespetts »

Offline ӔO

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To clarify, sending ships 1491 and 1492, line 40, on their way seems to result in the crash.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17111233/crash_14-04-10.sve

yeah, it's definitely crashing when the ship 1493 reaches its destination.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 12:45:29 PM by ӔO »

Offline jamespetts gb

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Thank you for the information: that was very helpful. I have now found and fixed the bug on the 11.x branch.

Offline Sarlock

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Thanks as always for the quick action, James :)

Squashing the bugs one by one!

Offline ӔO

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the game worked just fine if I reschedule those ships to another line, btw.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Now restarted with version 11.24, which fixes the crash/infinite loop: you will need to upgrade to log in. Sorry about the disruption and happy playing.

Offline ӔO

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The JPS and loading optimization patch is really amazing. Before the game was struggling on 4000 convoys and now it's nearly 8000 with the only slowdowns at the beginning/end of the month.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Splendid! Thanks to TurfIt and the Standard developers for that improvement. Is everyone finding it easier to stay connected now?