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Author Topic: Bug? On teleport to depot, cargo is lost?  (Read 2642 times)

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Offline AP

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Bug? On teleport to depot, cargo is lost?
« on: January 27, 2014, 04:32:09 PM »
Given the issue with wayfinding at sea, and the need for intermediate waypoints, I've noticed quite often on first run through of a new route, it's quite common for ships to teleport to depot, as extra waypoints are needed.

Given that most industrial routes start with "wait for 100% cargo" and given that the current industrial outputs in Experimental are low, it's rather annoying that the cargo is lost when the ship teleports.

For a ship, which has a very large cargo hold, it can represent a large loss of value/time.

Is it possible to review this? Could the cargo be retained somehow?

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Bug? On teleport to depot, cargo is lost?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2014, 09:39:49 PM »
This is not a bug; the idea is that when a vehicle enters the depot, it is no longer part of an ordinary route, and the cargo is lost, not least because the expectation is that the vehicle will be stored for a long time, sold, put into a different convoy or assigned to a different line. It is difficult to know what alternative might work here for all cases.

Offline AP

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Re: Bug? On teleport to depot, cargo is lost?
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2014, 11:18:27 PM »
Could the cargo revert to point of origin? (assuming sufficient capacity exists, surplus being lost)

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Bug? On teleport to depot, cargo is lost?
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2014, 11:22:57 PM »
Hmm - the trouble is that the waiting time could not then sensibly be recorded.

Offline AP

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Re: Bug? On teleport to depot, cargo is lost?
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2014, 11:55:14 PM »
The concern is the loss of value. If we accept the principle of some cargoes being scarce, if you've waited 12 months to fill a ship, spent another 12 months moving it across the map, then lose it when it's almost home due to a waypoint error, that's a crippling amount of investment for a company to lose.

Could it be monetised to the player in a fair way? (i.e. presumably it has been moved a certain distance thus far, could a pro-rata payment be made on deletion?)

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Bug? On teleport to depot, cargo is lost?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2014, 12:12:32 AM »
In principle, vehicles should not generally be sent to the depot other than when intended by a player; the trouble here is the limitation in the route-finding ability of ships. I know that the latest Standard nightlies has a more efficient route finding system for ships, and that Bernd has been working on merging this latest code into Experimental; it might be that this will allow fewer troubles with ship wayfinding.

In the meantime, however, the trouble with a pro rated payment is that it does not make much economic sense: as far as cargo is concerned, a miss is as good as a mile. Coal transported to within 50 miles of a factory from 200 miles away is no more use to the factory than if it had never left the mine.

Offline AP

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Re: Bug? On teleport to depot, cargo is lost?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2014, 12:17:31 AM »
In the meantime, however, the trouble with a pro rated payment is that it does not make much economic sense: as far as cargo is concerned, a miss is as good as a mile. Coal transported to within 50 miles of a factory from 200 miles away is no more use to the factory than if it had never left the mine.

Agreed, but neither does a ship setting sail without knowing how it will get all the way to its destination.

If there's new code coming, great. :)

If not, should it not just about what lets gameplay continue most fairly meanwhile (ie neither undue profit nor undue loss).

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Bug? On teleport to depot, cargo is lost?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2014, 12:26:52 AM »
The trouble is that calibrating the game to produce the desired result in this single case is likely to create myriad opportunities for exploits in other cases.

Offline wlindley

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Re: Bug? On teleport to depot, cargo is lost?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2014, 11:31:04 PM »
Perhaps Lloyd's could offer insurance against waypoint errors.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Bug? On teleport to depot, cargo is lost?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2014, 11:40:25 PM »
Perhaps Lloyd's could offer insurance against waypoint errors.

That'd be a whole new game - Simusurance!

Incidentally, have you ever played the board game "Mine a Million"/"The Business Game"? I once invented a whole set of new rules for that, which included giving players the option to purchase insurance. The modified version of the game is still played when I go to visit my family every Christmas.

Offline AP

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Re: Bug? On teleport to depot, cargo is lost?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2014, 06:43:02 PM »
That is an excellent board game.  ;D Although quite hard to come by...

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Bug? On teleport to depot, cargo is lost?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2014, 07:45:57 PM »
That is an excellent board game.  ;D Although quite hard to come by...

Interesting. I bought mine in "Toys 'R' Us" in the early 1990s. That is probably one of the most appealing board games to the Simutrans mentality.