Some more vehicles

[Ves]

So, back on topic!

Some new vehicles have left GIMP:


Littera F - a high speed train, build on the design of littera D


This is the family of the littera R:
Littera Ra - 1955 Already presented, but these are the first members of the "R" family and are new design high speed train with boggies.
Littera Rb - 1962 Is designed from Ra, but a more allround loco and not as fast as Ra.
Littera Rc - 1967 This is the final design and also most common loco in Sweden today. Some of the variations are already presented, but new are the Green Cargo variations.

[Ves]

In case anyone wants to try the vehicles inside Simutrans, I have compiled them all down to a single pakfile containing all vehicles.
The purpose of this release is that people interested can get a view of the graphics other than from the screenshoots.
Note that you cannot use this to play an actual game, no balancing, no costs, only dates, enginespecs and certain facts are in place.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/za2mzif7k9oxy92/AAAe2tv29ubD6eDFwLo1kPWga?dl=0

Installation:

You need Simutrans Experiemental for this to work

1 - Make a copy of your entire pak folder (eg "Pak128.Britain-Ex-0.9.1") and rename it to something else
2 - Copy the file "vehicle.rail.Se_allvehicles.pak" to this newly created pak
3 - Open the "Livery - Add to Simuconf.tab.txt" and replace this text with the "liveries"-section at the bottom of the "Simuconf.tab" of the newly created pak

Comments and feedbacks are very welcome

[Ves]

Littera G, the most typical good car, built 30'ies to 50'ies, used to transport kind of everything.

Updated the vehicle.rail.Se_allvehicles.pak on dropbox for public view and sources added to the server.

[Junna]

Where were the sources again?

[Ves]

They are on this server:
ftp.mkdevelopment.se
You need the username and password Maxmax once gave you

New to the list of vehicles are the G1, built from 1880'ies and used long time inside the next century as littera Gs.
I painted both a braked car and an unbraked car, however the design of the brakingplatform on the braked car is not finish and the braking car is overall not finish.

This raize a question:
On the early trains, are we to use the system the pak.britain use, where they have dedicated brake cars transporting nothing as a must after every trainset,
or shall we have the original real life braked cars, which in principle means double up on all cars in the depot, and if, should there exist rules to force combinations?

The real life rules of the use of braked/nonbraked cars where as I understood, very simplyfied, that every 6'th car should have braking possibilities.

[Junna]

This raise a question:
On the early trains, are we to use the system the pak.britain use, where they have dedicated brake cars transporting nothing as a must after every trainset,
or shall we have the original real life braked cars, which in principle means double up on all cars in the depot, and if, should there exist rules to force combinations?

The real life rules of the use of braked/nonbraked cars where as I understood, very simplyfied, that every 6'th car should have braking possibilities.

Realism would be preferable. As I understand, this was common for goods trains in German practice (i.e. to have multiple fitted vehicles in a set, manually or automatically controlled). The UK used a lot of unfitted goods trains and thus required dedicated brake vans, but as I understand, on the whole, brake vans on Swedish railways were always rather rare and used mostly on smaller railways which had no fitted goods wagons.

[Ves]

I found a book written for the 50 year anniversary of the Swedish railways, and it has a chapter on the history of braking. I don't have the book in front of me now, but as I understood it, the first many years there was a guy in every braked car and on some kind of signal (didn't figure out how the train driver communicates with the brakers), they span the braking wheels around making their cars brake. Every 6'th car has to be brakeable. Some different kinds of automated braking through some use of wire are also talked about and then is the vacuum brake and the high pressure air brake.

I also want it as realistic as possible, the question is what is desired:
• to allow the player to put as many/few braked cars and let the physics and economy force the player to adjust the relationship (longer brake distance versus paying for more "brake guys"), or
• make constraints like the pak Britain that first and last  car have to be braked, or
• make constraints so at least every 6'th car has to be braked.

[Junna]

I found a book written for the 50 year anniversary of the Swedish railways, and it has a chapter on the history of braking. I don't have the book in front of me now, but as I understood it, the first many years there was a guy in every braked car and on some kind of signal (didn't figure out how the train driver communicates with the brakers), they span the braking wheels around making their cars brake. Every 6'th car has to be brakeable. Some different kinds of automated braking through some use of wire are also talked about and then is the vacuum brake and the high pressure air brake.

This is indeed the general German practice (in Germany, for example, many goods wagons (those that were braked) had small cabins for the guard). It makes sense that Sweden would adopt it, since, at the time, Germany was the primary cultural and social influence and so on.

• to allow the player to put as many/few braked cars and let the physics and economy force the player to adjust the relationship (longer brake distance versus paying for more "brake guys"),

I think this is the most desirable. There is now, I think, some more detailed simulation of brake force of a train (so that a braked wagon can add more brake force than an un-braked one) so that should work out well.

[Vladki]

I would also leave it to the player how many brake cars are used. Just FYI the train whistle signals for braking are still in czech railway rules. I can find and translate more info if anybody is interested.

[Ves]

Ok that's also the most easy and straight forward!
So, how to calculate brake force? Just let the game do it?

[Ves]

Then some more freightcars have left GIMP:



From top:
(mixed track to compare cars)
G4 - The earliest model of the typical G-car. Exist in a braked and unbraked model
G1 - The next generation cars, models very similar to G4 but a bit bigger. Also braked/unbraked.
G3 - Well, The G3 shares exactly the same graphics as G1, so they have not got its own track. But its a reinforced model of G1 and built from 1898. Also braked/unbraked.
G5 - Built from 1911, this is a livestock car. Exists only as braked.
Grh - First modern type freight car bult in 1920'ies
G - THE G-car!
Ge - this car is built using the european standard type (the "e" in the littera)


The colors of the roof are up to discussion. I read somewhere that the Grh-car was delivered to SJ in brown-red with black roof. But then I have seen pictures of completely brown cars. I guess they where all painted in different colors during the ages making it very difficult to model accuracy! Any Ideas?

Any feedback of how I can improve is very welcome!

[Junna]

"I guess they where all painted in different colors during the ages making it very difficult to model accuracy!"

Livery settings, perhaps? pak.britain does not use this currently for goods wagons, but the selection of goods wagons is tiny and very old in the set, there.

[Ves]

ha ofcorse! completely forgot that the livery can change automatically on the same car!

Are working on some coolingcars now. many of them had commersials painted on them (bananvagnen, Findus, Felix osv) and some even have quite nice paintings. (a quick google search: https://www.google.se/search?q=littera+H+kylvagnar&espv=2&biw=1786&bih=901&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMI1dXVw-uRxgIVgbMsCh1jVQDU#tbm=isch&q=kylvagn+findus%2C+felix
Some are even yellow and not white!

Is this wanted?

[Junna]

It might be neat, but I think for that, the best option would be to have a number of different versions I guess (I personally don't mind a 'cluttered depot window'), because unfortunately I don't think Simutrans has the ability to do like those OTTD random-livery selections for a particular wagon.

[Ves]

I would like to keep the depot window as clean as possible The liveryfeature would be more preferably as that is a more discrete way. Although, choosing commersials as diferent liveries then clutters the livery dialog (remember, there will in the end be more companies), so you could also make it timedependent and make it update automatically, say every 5-10 years.

Yes, would be nice to have the random version.....

I will se if I can get some cars out

[Ves]

What do you think?

[Junna]

Is the space between them right? Looks a bit fragmented. Otherwise looks nice.

[Ves]

The spacing between cars is the same between all good cars I have painted built after year 1920. Earlier good cars, I have painted with a more close distance. Some cars have a braking bridge which makes the gap appear smaller.
This picture shows the corresponding cars without commercials and consist of three Gre and four Grf.

But aarrghhh! The more I look at the picture now, the gaps gets bigger and bigger! 
Il tighten them up..

Edit: took much shorter time than anticipated to repaint all the good cars. Replaced the picture with a new one also adding a new livery on a "G" car seen in the picture. Added also a picture of some other good cars which are now closer together:


it does look better, right?

[Junna]

Yes, that looks much better and more appropriate. :O

[Ves]

From the other thread:

Does that mean you intend to introduce actual early steam engines and earlier rolling stock?

Yes! Although I don't know how to paint them yet. Maybe go for rendering?
Incidentally I already painted some of the earliest G-cars, showed in the other thread.

Rendering certainly makes it easier, but I don't know how you would maintain consistency. If you do go this way, I recommend it might be easiest - for consistency of the visual appearance - for you to make a basic model, render this and then draw on it to add details and touches. It will make it easier for you to maintain a consistency of scale and appearance for steam engines, which are notoriously quite complex in their shape by their nature, without compromising the visual consistency.

Do you meen that i should model a given vehicle and then paint over it?
I find that its the shadows that makes the most difficult part (the shadows is what makes something looks like something and not just a color 'blob'), would it be possible to render only the shadows on an alpha channel which i could import to GIMP and then I could paint underneath?

[Junna]

From the other thread:

Do you meen that i should model a given vehicle and then paint over it?
I find that its the shadows that makes the most difficult part (the shadows is what makes something looks like something and not just a color 'blob'), would it be possible to render only the shadows on an alpha channel which i could import to GIMP and then I could paint underneath?

That could be done, though it would probably be less of a bother to render everything and then "touch up" the result to give it more of a flair.

[Ves]

Next train to leave GIMP is the not so new anymore, double deck train:



X40 - Built in 2004 and by rumers I've heard (havent traveled this train but once or twice long long time ago) this should not be so nice to ride! Small stairs to upper flor, strange seating numbers and many other inconveniences. I remember first time I saw this train in real life, and I thought: "Did they deliver these trains unpainted?" But then I saw the logo of the state railways and realized that the paintsheme is just: Plain grey!

[Junna]

I went with one to Göteborg last year - four hours scheduled time. I assume it's intended for actual "regional" services, and not what SJ operates as "Regional", i.e. semi-fast long-distance services. Approaching Skövde there had been a suicide, somewhere on the approach thereto, and we were held up at this small station in the middle of nowhere for one and a half hours. My **** was quite sore after those hard seats for that long, when we finally arrived in Göteborg. On the way back, there were again delays - this time a goods train had derailed on the passing loops just beyond Skövde (there's something about that place, isn't there?) due to a broken wheel, and one of the container wagons was fouling the up track, so it was single-line running for some distance. Delay was half an hour that time. I don't know why they are so terrible at fixing things -- there was that one time a goods train derailed and ripped up the track near Krylbo some years ago, and it took them several months to get it open again...

Also X40 shake so much they had to remove the vending machines which stand in for the lack of a bistro- or dining carriage. I guess shortage of appropriate rolling stock is why they keep putting them into long-distance services like Stockholm-Västerås-Örebro-Hallsberg-Göteborg and so on. Usually an additional two or three-car set is attached or detached at Västerås towards Stockholm (I have seen 3 3-car sets in use when the last service prior was delayed); it's usually quite crowded on those services nevertheless. At least we got to ride first class as our tickets had been incorrectly booked (assigned seats in a carriage that wasn't actually in the train). Was empty the whole trip back to Västerås, even when the rest of the train was standing-space only.

[Ves]

It appears that the rumours are true!
I also heard that when they couple several sets together, they can't change the order of the car number.
So on a 2+3 set train, instead of having car 1-2-3-4-5, it could be something as weird as 4-5-1-2-3, making it for quite a run on the platform for some passenger!
I think the comfort setting on this train should be quite low....

[Ves]

Y1 - A popular commuter train built in Italy. The train was called the "Pizzaracer", due to its italian roots and it traveled very well on shabby tracks. The original delivered train looked like the first train from left in the picture, however too much dirt got into the air intake which was placed under the floor, so the air intake was moved up to the sides on the carriage.
YF1 - Some of the trains had a freight room and got the F added to the littera. These are the number 2 and 4 from left

[Ves]

The "smoothing iron" littera H



The H family was designed during the 30'ties and 40'ties as a very light engine for all the poor old tracks laying around in Sweden. The H family would haul both light good train and also passenger services.
from lower track to upper track:

Ha - The initial loco of the "H" family. It appeared to have a number of dificulties, it was behaving bad on the track, tilting shaking etc. The max speed was lowered from 80km/h to 70 km/h for safety reason.
Hb - Based on the experience of Ha, a number of improvements where made to Hb. The max speed at 80km/h was kept but it still was not a perfect design
Hg - Based on the experience of both Ha and Hb, they now relocated the stearing cab to not be in the center of the train, but towards one of the ends. This improved stability very much and became a much better loco than both Ha and Hb. The shape of the loco reminded one of a smoothing iron and it also became the nickname for this locomotive. The Hg also has a stronger engine
than its predecessors.

[Vladki]

I have noticed that Se_Ro5_1930/1940, Se_R2_1980/1990 (restaurant cars) have 0 capacity. I think it should be a few people. The 1940 version even lacks the catering level.

There is no mail coach available in 1960's, DFo33_1950 is only available as upgrade from something older.

There are three vehicles in mail section that do not have any image. Thus one cannot find what it is.

[Ves]

I have noticed that Se_Ro5_1930/1940, Se_R2_1980/1990 (restaurant cars) have 0 capacity. I think it should be a few people.

Gosh, I named them wrong, they should be called Ro3 instead of Ro5!
Anyway, I had thought that you couldnt book a seat in the restaurant cars. Do you think that is unintuitive?

The 1940 version even lacks the catering level.

found and fixed, thanks!

There is no mail coach available in 1960's, DFo33_1950 is only available as upgrade from something older.

The timeline is not yet completed, as there will be goodswagons carrying mail. Although, are there not Fo5_1960 and DFo28_1960? They should be buildable from the 1960's up to 1984.

There are three vehicles in mail section that do not have any image. Thus one cannot find what it is.

That is a part of an experiement. They are parts of other vehicles, eg UBFo_1930 and UADo7z(UADZ)_1950 and are what in pak-britain is refered to cargo-holds. The vehicles in real life where capable of transporting post and passenger or cargo and passengers at the same time, and that was an experiement to see if it works, which it actually does. However, its not that userfriendly and its a hack. Suggestions?

[Vladki]

Gosh, I named them wrong, they should be called Ro3 instead of Ro5!
Anyway, I had thought that you couldnt book a seat in the restaurant cars. Do you think that is unintuitive?

Well, you cannot book a seat, but you can sit there without booking, as long as you are eating/drinking something. (And if booking a seat is not compulsory - depends on country).
I did that a few times when train was overcrowded. I see that you have set some overcorwded capacity for restaurant car, but it seem to be ignored if standard capacity is 0.
Also capacities of 1st class coach Ao5 seems to me too low. Imho it is 11 compartmens, not 11 persons. For 1st class I would forbid overcrowding (booked seat only).

Although, are there not Fo5_1960 and DFo28_1960? They should be buildable from the 1960's up to 1984.

Ah yes. I'm in 1960, and these two are introduced in 1961 and 1964, ok then.

That is a part of an experiement. They are parts of other vehicles, eg UBFo_1930 and UADo7z(UADZ)_1950 and are what in pak-britain is refered to cargo-holds. The vehicles in real life where capable of transporting post and passenger or cargo and passengers at the same time, and that was an experiement to see if it works, which it actually does. However, its not that userfriendly and its a hack. Suggestions?

Pak.CS has something simiar. They use the same picture twice, with half of the vehicle "semi-transaparent" - checkered with transparent pixels. See for example http://sourceforge.net/p/simutrans/code/HEAD/tree/pak128.CS/vehicles/rail-psg+mail/460_560/. It is czechoslovak EMU class from 80's, that has a baggage and passenger  compartment on the engine.

[Ves]

Pak.CS has something simiar. They use the same picture twice, with half of the vehicle "semi-transaparent" - checkered with transparent pixels. See for example http://sourceforge.net/p/simutrans/code/HEAD/tree/pak128.CS/vehicles/rail-psg+mail/460_560/. It is czechoslovak EMU class from 80's, that has a baggage and passenger  compartment on the engine.

wow thats an interersting way to do it! Does it work well? Il give it a try!

Well, you cannot book a seat, but you can sit there without booking, as long as you are eating/drinking something. (And if booking a seat is not compulsory - depends on country).
I did that a few times when train was overcrowded. I see that you have set some overcorwded capacity for restaurant car, but it seem to be ignored if standard capacity is 0.
Also capacities of 1st class coach Ao5 seems to me too low. Imho it is 11 compartmens, not 11 persons. For 1st class I would forbid overcrowding (booked seat only).

It is not good if the overcrowded number are ignored if the load is 0. That takes away the entire effect. Maybe some seat reservations must be held anyway!
regarding the Ao5, I have the original plans, and there its describe that if the tickets where sold as 1'st class tickets, there could be 11 people sleeping in the car. If the tickets where sold as 2'nd class tickets, there could be 22 people sleeping in the car. My thought was that its a 1'st class sleep car with ultra high comfort.
I too think that overcrowded shouldnt be allowed at first class cars.

[Vladki]

Ah, I somehow overlooked that it is a sleep car. I see two variants: sleep with 11 places and sitt wit 22 places, and the same comfort. Perhaps the description and comfort should be changed for the variant with 22 places. If the car is changed to sitting it should be somewhere at 66 places.

[Ves]

Yes, the plans I got shows that when its operating as a first class car, then its 11 sleep places or 22 sitting places. When its operating as a second class car, then its 22 sleep places or 33 sitting places. The two variants currently in the pak are representing two first class cars: one sleeping and one sitting (Ao5_1950_sleep and Ao5_1950_Sitt). I was thinking that maybe one would want the extreme luxury car to add diversity, rather than having another car in the same loading/comfort range as other cars?
The comfort I havent touched yet anywhere, but the point is that the sleeping version should have very high comfort. But I guess that will have to wait until one can start calculate revenue etc.

[Ves]

Littera Ma:

... and some graphical glitches due to the screenshooting technique..

All trains on this picture is the same train, only the two on the rightmost tracks have been upgraded.
All liveries are TGOJ, except the third track from the left, which is SJ

Littera Ma where built from 1953 and and where originally hauling both passenger carriers and freight. From the 1960'ies, they got more in the background and mostly hauled freight because of the newly built Littera Rc which became very popular.

[Ves]

Littera Mg:


Littera Mg was built in mid 1940'ies and where the precursor to Littera Ma. It was designed to haul heavier load than the previously built littera H.

[Ves]

The U-train is, despite the name, not a subway train!
It is a series of succesfull small lokomotors used for shunting, which have been traveling the railways since 1926 and some of them are still running the day today!



Somehow the order of the trains got a bit disordered..
Ua - (2'nd track from top) built 1926
Ub - (1'st track from top) built 1930
Ud - (4'th track from top) built 1955
Ue / Uf - (3'rd track from top) This is a rebuilt Ua or Ub (depending on the name) and they where rebuilt in the end of the 80'ies with more powerfull engine. This is the typical orange color scheme.
Ue / Uf - (5'rd track from top) This is the blue color scheme which this loco got painted in the 90'ies

edit: Updated picture with colorfull Ue / Uf