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What's happen when the year after 2999?

Started by SuperChuCu2, August 08, 2015, 12:17:46 PM

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SuperChuCu2

Can I still play the game save normally?
because I hear that some function will not operate after 2999 year

Ters

2999 is the default expiration/retirement date if nothing else is specified. The game can now run longer than that, and no functionality is technically lost, but objects that have not explicitly got a retirement date specified, will no longer be available if the timeline is on (or will only be available through manual overrides). Things that have already been built, will continue to exist.

Originally, it was inconceivable that anyone could play until year 2999 (unless started in 2800), but I understand there are networked games now running 24/7. These should in my opinion be run without a timeline, or with a much slower passage of time. Otherwise, entire decades of the 20th century, during which most vehicles come and go in Simutrans' pak sets, will pass while you're on a weekend trip to somewhere in real-life.

jamespetts

The Bridgewater-Brunel server for Simutrans-Experimental runs with a very slow timeline and automatically pauses when nobody is connected, and that game seems to run at a decent pace without things expiring too quickly.
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Ters

Quote from: jamespetts on August 08, 2015, 06:39:19 PM
The Bridgewater-Brunel server for Simutrans-Experimental runs with a very slow timeline and automatically pauses when nobody is connected, and that game seems to run at a decent pace without things expiring too quickly.

And how long does it take to reach 2999?

But 2999 is not necessarily the critical date. pak64 pretty much reaches the end by 2020 in my opinion.

jamespetts

It's never reached that year yet; but people have not been playing so much, which is significant, as it pauses when they are not connected.

And you are correct about the 2999 date; Pak128.Britain runs out of steam in about 2010 (although The Hood has some new vehicles in progress that should take us up to this year at least), but the long term aim is to make it playable to 2050 (although that will require frequent revision when the future does not turn out as we imagine!).
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DrSuperGood

2999 is a constant used to expire a lot of stuff for some reason. I am not sure why it was chosen but also applies to standard Simutrans. It is likely to prevent some sort of time overflow which could happen if the date is allowed to continue infinitly.

I do agree that it really should not exist. It would be much better if at 2999 it just started looping around (goes back to January and repeats). Might not make any sense but allows people to keep playing forever.

The problem with the multiplayer server is that a lot of people (like myself) no longer have access to their companies. Additionally due to various reasons the Pakset is pretty unplayable at the current point in progress. For example we have run out of useful transport ships, running out of economical rail engines, power is a total mess (will OOS if used), the map is over 100 MB and both route time prediction and maximum in-transit computation are broken. Many of these issues are apparently fixed already in the source code however due to compatibility they cannot be rolled out to the active game.

I understand the server game was a stress test. As good as it was it really needs to end at some stage and be replaced with something smaller / more manageable.

jamespetts

The Bridgewater-Brunel server will be restarted with the latest version of Experimental when it is eventually released, but there is a lot of work needed before that next release. If anyone would like to help with that work, it would be much appreciated.

If you would like me to reset the password for your company, meanwhile, do let me know and I will oblige.
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DrSuperGood

QuoteIf you would like me to reset the password for your company, meanwhile, do let me know and I will oblige.
Turns out the stolen password expired in the mean time so I am back in control lol.

Looks like the server was hit by vandals, trying to undo some of the damage.

Quotebut there is a lot of work needed before that next release
Which is sort of a shame. Will look if I could do one or two small things.

Ters

Quote from: DrSuperGood on August 08, 2015, 11:19:56 PM
2999 is a constant used to expire a lot of stuff for some reason. I am not sure why it was chosen but also applies to standard Simutrans. It is likely to prevent some sort of time overflow which could happen if the date is allowed to continue infinitly.

The technical limit is the year 4096, but it seems it was over 5000 at some point. 2999 was probably simply a nice "round" figure inconceivably long into the future. Considering the actual timelines in the pak sets, 2099 might as well have been chosen. Another 900 years might have been added, just to be safe.

jamespetts

Quote from: DrSuperGood on August 09, 2015, 05:04:39 AM
Turns out the stolen password expired in the mean time so I am back in control lol.

Looks like the server was hit by vandals, trying to undo some of the damage.

Ahh, yes, that can happen when things are left derelict. Let me know whether there is anything that I need to do.

QuoteWhich is sort of a shame. Will look if I could do one or two small things.

That would be helpful. There is a summary of helpful things that one might do here.
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prissi

The original Simutrans (when still without fast forward) would crash in the year 2729 due to an overflow. (15 bit divided by 12). Hence 2999 was deemed ok for eternity. That "bug" was only discovered when some very engaged player actually reached that year after about 1,5 year of real time gaming ...

However, you could just switch timeline off, and continue to play forever now.

Isaac Eiland-Hall

Quote from: prissi on August 09, 2015, 10:06:15 PM
However, you could just switch timeline off, and continue to play forever now.

If someone makes it that far........ that seems like a very reasonable solution. lol

DrSuperGood

QuoteHowever, you could just switch timeline off, and continue to play forever now.
Clutters the UI with obsolete stuff too much. Especially a pakset like 128 Britain for Experimental where there are dozens of rails, bridges, and elevated ways.

A third option "end of time" is needed where everything that will obsolete eventually is obsolete and everything else is available. Pakset authors should then make sure to not have any unreasonable obsolete dates (normal Pak128 has some) on things.