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Author Topic: pak 128 rail tunnels (bridges?)  (Read 4156 times)

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Offline Trammie

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pak 128 rail tunnels (bridges?)
« on: October 06, 2015, 07:48:24 PM »
Maybe I've missed a post somewhere, but having some issues with rail tunnels in pak 128.
I've been playing 128 for a little while but only just coming to realise that I can't make it build rail tunnels. If I try I get "Tunnels must start on a straight slope" - it used to work in older versions (And I don't think I had problems in the Britain pakset). I have tried pressing CTRL (No effect), I have tried increasing the size  of the slope (Also no effect).

I had been having some issues with rail bridges that wouldn't build properly (they'd bridge a gap - but at such a level nothing could go underneath it), but fiddling in the screen that comes up when the pak set loads I may have figured out my problem.

Anyone able to help me out?

Offline Sarlock

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Re: pak 128 rail tunnels (bridges?)
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2015, 09:50:19 PM »
Tunnels will need to start on a full (double height) slope, not a half height slope.  Raise the ground up another level and it should work fine using CTRL to place the tunnel.

Offline Trammie

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Re: pak 128 rail tunnels (bridges?)
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2015, 11:46:33 PM »
Thanks for that,
I had to experiment a little but I got it to work - I'd tried something similar before without result. This time after trying it multiple times I got rid of the leading track on the slope (Which you used to have to do, I'm sure) and it built the tunnel happily. Yay! Now I can have the tracks how I want them :)

Thanks again for that



OK - now back to bridges: I got them to work once but that wasn't in my savegame. Is there some special trick to those too? I find they just won't connect up
« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 02:27:09 AM by Isaac.Eiland-Hall »

Offline gauthier

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Re: pak 128 rail tunnels (bridges?)
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2015, 09:10:59 AM »
Building of tunnels and bridges became difficult with half slopes, without any clear documentation about that ...

Indeed, we used to have a track on slope before building tunnel from it. As tunnels can begin only on full slopes and tracks (in pak128) can't be built on full slope ... you have to get rid of this track, so we can build tunnels directly on slopes with no tracks on them.

Bridges are more difficult too. As you can't build tracks on full slopes, track bridges can't have full ramps too. If you want to go higher with a bridge, you have to terraform.

Offline Trammie

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Re: pak 128 rail tunnels (bridges?)
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2015, 08:00:31 PM »
Ah I see now...I have managed to get a bridge that works now (Even if it looks like it's way higher than needed - too bad!) so thanks for that. Hopefully others that are having issues can read this thread and learn from it!

Offline KJ

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Re: pak 128 rail tunnels (bridges?)
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2021, 10:55:30 PM »
I think the fact that this topic has been viewed over 3000 times may indicate this is a hassle for many people.

Even after several years I still think the old way was 100x easier. I spend so much time trying to get the terrain just right and half the time it still doesn't really work out. In the mean time it leaves the area looking unnatural, trees and water get wiped out and often I end up with a tunnel that is barely even underground and the rail or road has a steep ramp on each side which looks odd.

Thanks, I really appreciate all the great work and I'm sure there was a purpose behind making it change from the old way.

Offline Vladki

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Re: pak 128 rail tunnels (bridges?)
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2021, 10:30:07 AM »
Perhaps an image, how the bridge and tunnel should look will be helpful to others:
 

Offline KJ

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Re: pak 128 rail tunnels (bridges?)
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2021, 02:16:17 AM »
Great graphic. I have never imagined doing the middle one. So both features require two stage ramps instead of the older style one tile slope? Maybe this can find some way to word the error message better than "a straight slope" I'm going to play around with double tile slopes and see how it goes.

Offline Vladki

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Re: pak 128 rail tunnels (bridges?)
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2021, 11:11:25 AM »
If both ways are yours, you can also make one of them one level up, and the other one level down.

You need two levels of clearance for vehicles to pass under the bridge. And you can go up only one level per tile.

And I agree that the error message is confusing. I think the problem is that before double heights there were not so many situations (and reasons) why a bridge cannot be built, and the error message does not differentiate between them.

Also some paksets still allow building bridges easily as before. E.g. pak128.britain - allows roads and tracks on double height slope, or pak64 - single height slope is high enough to pass over the road (or to allow tunnel).
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 11:55:15 AM by Vladki »

Offline KJ

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Re: pak 128 rail tunnels (bridges?)
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2021, 01:03:17 AM »
I use pak128.britain exclusively, and it might be that there is some twist where it seems to work the old way in much of the flat terrain but the new way in hilly areas.  Often I'm able to place a road bridge like the old way but as you have noted there are cases were no traffic can go underneath that bridge.

Offline Vladki

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Re: pak 128 rail tunnels (bridges?)
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2021, 07:15:12 PM »
pak128.britain allows steep slopes (2 levels in one tile). But you still have to make 2-level clearance for vehicles to pass.
1. if you build bridge over other players way, it will be automatically 2-levels high (if pakset allows that, otherwise the bridge won't be built at all).
2. if you build bridge over your own way, it may be built only 1-level high.
3. you can build road beneath 1-level high bridge
I play mostly pak128.britain in simutrans-extended, so what I say may not be exactly true in simutrans standard. Most notably in extended it is possible to differentiate between tall (double decker bus/tram) and short (single deck) vehicles. Single deck vehicles can pass under 1-level bridge.

Offline prissi

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Re: pak 128 rail tunnels (bridges?)
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2021, 06:21:22 AM »
I think in standard, the double way should be enforced in any case.