tram track can be built only over street

[Vladki]

Hi, I'm not sure if this is a bug or a "feature".

Tram tracks can be built only over existing streets. They can leave the steet only for one tile needed to build depot.

[DrSuperGood]

I think this is deliberate design because if you are not on streets you can use normal tracks instead. Normal tracks should not only have better qualities to them (more load, faster speed) but also be cheaper to build and maintain.

[zook2]

That used to be different. It's also quite inconvenient.

[Junna]

Not really. The only inconvenience is the placement of depots.

[jamespetts]

This is intended, as Dr. Supergood suggests: trams are, by definition, railways built into roadways: it does not make any sense to have a "tramway" without a roadway. I have allowed a single tile of tramway to be built beyond a roadway to facilitate depots and interchanges with ordinary railway lines. For any distances longer than 1 tile on which trams have to travel other than over an existing roadway, just use an ordinary railway with sleepers, as was done in real life. To reduce cost, you can use much lighter grade track than is necessary for mainline railways: the sort of track suitable for a light railway.

[DrSuperGood]

the sort of track suitable for a light railway.

Surely the gauge would be wrong?!

[jamespetts]

No - many light railways were standard gauge, the same as trams.

[Octavius]

The reverse may happen too: many tramways are narrow gauge. I'm writing in present tense here, as all variants still exist on the continent.

Both railways and tramways can be both narrow gauge and standard gauge. Take for example the tramways of Antwerp, Basel or the Coast Tram in Belgium, all metre gauge. Although one could argue that that last one, a 67 km intercity line, partially street running, partially on its own right of way, is lightrail, but the distinction is vague anyway. It's called a tram because it has been called that since its construction in 1885.


Originally, tracked ways were known as tramways. In the early 19th century, when steam locomotives were developed, a heavier kind of track was developed, which became known as railway. By definition, the distinction was just the weight of the track. According to that original definition, a light railway would by definition be a tramway, but nowadays a tram is running on the street at least part of the distance.

Light rail is just anything that is convenient to call light rail from a PR point of view. The term has only become popular for new construction since most, but not all, tramways other than those running in the city streets had either closed or were converted to railways.

And what to say of this Swiss thing?

It looks like a railway train, it even has bulk goods wagons and runs on 11 kV AC electricity, but it runs on the street for considerable distance. It's narrow gauge, by the way. Actually, Swiss law doesn't make a distinction between railways, tramways or anything inbetween.

So I'm quite happy about the current situation not making a strict distinction between tramways and railways because in reality there is none, although I do miss the narrow gauge tramways.

[jamespetts]

Indeed, the distinction is complex: there was a time when a southern English coastal town (I forget which one now) had full sized mainline trains running on a street section to a dock station (albeit at a very low speed), and the Isle of Man has narrow gauge trams. In Simutrans, the distinction is between railways that run in the street and those that run independently. A narrow gauge tramway would be a useful thing to have (although marginal for UK use), and would probably be possible to code, but would, I imagine, be more work than it would be worth for most cases.

[Junna]

Indeed, the distinction is complex: there was a time when a southern English coastal town (I forget which one now) had full sized mainline trains running on a street section to a dock station (albeit at a very low speed), and the Isle of Man has narrow gauge trams. In Simutrans, the distinction is between railways that run in the street and those that run independently. A narrow gauge tramway would be a useful thing to have (although marginal for UK use), and would probably be possible to code, but would, I imagine, be more work than it would be worth for most cases.

The Portsmouth Tramway?

Also the Wisbech and Upwell, which was a standard gauge branch operated using tram engines. There was also that branch line that had trams run on it until it was closed in the 50's, think on the west coast somewhere.

I don't like the term "light rail" used for the "revitalised" tramways with more dedicated trackage. It's a marketing gimmick more than anything and has no real meaning (the amount of dedicated track for tram network was always varied, U.S. interurban tramways often had a lot of dedicated track, even in cities). The Interurbans in Japan built during the 1910-1930 (there was a small burst of new one's built using the new tramway law (closely related to the british Light Railway act) often had a lot of dedicated track, although they were later often converted to full mainline specifications (those that were profitable, most smaller one's in lesser towns were closed either by the private companies or the city governments that operated them chiefly for cheaper bus operation and, in other cases like Tokyo, to allow more space for motor cars). In Gothenburg, later tramway extensions were built to metro standard to allow a possible conversion, but the cost and priorities doomed the project and it remains a "fast tram". Dedicated suburban trackage was also popular as a cheap expansion of tramways in the Soviet Union and the eastern bloc, where they did not suffer (until 1990) the sort of severe contractions seen in the west.

[jamespetts]

Interesting!

[Octavius]

The Netherlands also had an extensive network of tramways (they were called so) similar to the American interurbans, roughly from 1885 until 1945, although a few survived into the 1960s. Most were steam operated, some were electrified after 1910 or switched to diesel motor cars in the 1930s. Those that didn't were closed in the late 1930s, being replaced by buses, but many reopened for a short while during the War because of a shortage of diesel fuel. Steam operated goods trams remained a bit longer, as diesel locomotives couldn't provide enough power yet. One tramway remained for goods railway trains into this century.

The tramways used a variety of gauges, mostly 1435, 1067, 1000 and 750 mm. The difference with railways was a much simpler signalling system (mostly driving on sight, using the time table to prevent head-on meetings on single track lines), a lower speed limit and some other legalities like no obligation to build fences along the track. In the cities and villages the trams often ran on the streets, outside the build up areas most ran just alongside the street, but others had a route for their own. Apart from transporting passengers and mail, the trams played also a big role in goods transportation, especially agricultural products and fuel.

Typically the trams had about two or three carriages for passengers and often one for luggage, pulled by a small steam locomotive. A few goods wagons could sometimes be added, but there were long dedicated goods trams too, especially during harvest. I've also seen a picture of a "zoo tram" of 13 carriages full of people on their way to the zoo in 1941.

There were local railways too, which were somewhere inbetween the tramways and the main railways. Most have closed, some were converted to main railways or are in use as heritage lines.

Belgium had a similar system of tramways, but I'm not familiar with the details. One line remains there, the Coast Tram I mentioned in my previous post.

In both countries some hybrid tram/metro systems have been build in recent years, partially street-running or on dedicated rights-of-way outside the centre, sometimes on viaducts or in tunnels. Nobody seems to know how these things should be called, and many different names are used for them.

[Vladki]

There are more difference between tram and train, than running over the street or not. Even if the track gauge is the same the vehicles have different flanges on wheels, because of sharper turns. Thus the switch construction must be a bit different. Vehicles are narrower, can climb steeper inclines, acceleration and deceleration is more important than top speed (frequent stops). Platforms are lower. Signalling is much simpler (drive-by-sight, timetable, one-train staff).  Vehicles obey road traffic signals. Different voltage. Czech rail law puts a clear distinction between the two.

Here in Brno we have quite a few km of dedicated tram track, and while most of the dedicated track uses standard (T) rails, they have to change to tram grooved rail on switches. And some pretty long dedicated sections are completely built with grooved rail.

On the other hand, there are classic rail sections that run along the street using grooved rail (with deeper groove).

In simutrans terms, I think the groove is what makes the distinction between tram an train track, but it still should be allowed to build grooved track outside of streets. The player should choose based on price, speed, durability and such factors.

It would be nice to have dedicated tram signals, that appear in tram menu and work correctly.
And narrowgauge trams would be nice too. Even in standard.

[Junna]

Belgium had a similar system of tramways, but I'm not familiar with the details. One line remains there, the Coast Tram I mentioned in my previous post.

The Belgian network was by far the largest in Europe, IIRC it was as long as, if not longer than, the mainline network. A lot of interurban routes existed and regional tram systems too, often running as single-track extensions of urban networks. A similar set-up was also common in parts of France, in all cases promoted as ancillary and low-cost alternatives to mainline railways.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicinal_tramway

[Octavius]

Here in Brno we have quite a few km of dedicated tram track, and while most of the dedicated track uses standard (T) rails, they have to change to tram grooved rail on switches. And some pretty long dedicated sections are completely built with grooved rail.

This indicates that they use flange running on the points. This is considered a bit old fashioned nowadays, although it's still used on some systems as conversion isn't easy. Many tramways, including those interurban systems I mentioned, use ordinary railway tracks, points and wheels, although often with a shorter wheelbase. They did so to be able to use ordinary railway lines on some parts of their route or to take ordinary railway goods wagons to places where no railway came. Some goods trams here where almost full sized railway trains, but at the same time the diesel motor cars were real trams. For the narrow gauge networks, it was because of the relatively high weight of the tramway trains (to use the correct, but archaic word), which were steam powered.

There were and still are also passenger-only city tramways, more similar to the archetypical tram: electric, powered on all axles, narrow vehicles. Both types use low platforms and some of these modern trams share track with the railways. You can't do that if you use flange running on the points.

The Belgian network was by far the largest in Europe, IIRC it was as long as, if not longer than, the mainline network. A lot of interurban routes existed and regional tram systems too, often running as single-track extensions of urban networks. A similar set-up was also common in parts of France, in all cases promoted as ancillary and low-cost alternatives to mainline railways.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicinal_tramway

According to that article (dutch version), the maximum was about 4811 km, almost as long as the railway network. I don't know the exact maximum length of the dutch network, I think somewhere between 1500 and 2000 km, less but not so much less than the railway network, which peaked at 3585 km in 1930. The dutch railway and tram networks have always been smaller than the Belgian networks, partially because the Netherlands have a very extensive water network, so there is less need for goods transport by rail, partially because the Belgian state was heavily involved in construction of the rail and tram network, where the dutch state mostly left it to private companies.

[Vladki]

Czech tramways are passenger only, and not interconnected with (big)train network. There are some plans to make tram-train lines in future. Cargo trams were abandoned long ago - trucks are more flexible, and the network is so busy that there is no place for cargo trams. You are right about flange running on points, however it is not a necessity. There is at least one place with normal train track and points in Brno. I just think that they use whatever they have in stock...