Author Topic: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial  (Read 11599 times)

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Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #70 on: May 17, 2017, 01:07:57 AM »
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2.B: "if the road under the tank is electrified", tank != depot !
It is fixed.

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2.D: Editing the schedule, if I remove a stop from the list, it stays "OK" in the tutorial window.
I've improved a bit, but it's not possible to be perfect.
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2.F.6/7: Set the last stop at 100% but the tutorial does not take to the next step although it took to the next step after closing the schedule window and dispatching the bus. I don't know how to reproduce this.
If you advance after pressing the start button, I have added more information here. ;)
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3.B: Still needs to specify that track tools are in railroad toolbar.
What do you think of this ?: "Select" Railroad Tools "from the toolbar and choose the track tool to connect the two points between {w1} and {w2}.
 
"
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3.D: A small paragraph to tell the player how to know if a station accepts goods or anything else would be nice, something like "To know if a station accepts goods, let your cursor on the button and a tooltip pops up. A whole station accepts goods if at least one of its buildings does."
Ok.

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3.F: Would it be possible to hide elevated tracks buttons in this step ? Confusion with bridges is likely to happen.
The id of the tracks and the elevated tracks are the same, not with us another way of differentiating them I am afraid.

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3.H: The piece of track prebuilt on the steep slope is, in itself, a glitch but is not necessary to start the tunnel, everything would work great without it.
The problem is that the track and the entrance of the tunnel are not automatically logged when the track belongs to the public service.

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3.H.2/5: Should mention that "lowering the terrain" here means using the down flat artificial slope tool in the landscaping tools. A paragraph explaining how to use these tools to lower or raise underground tracks would be helpful.
That can be explained very well using images (I still hope that the patch is incorporated).

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During the whole tutorial, player can do stuff unrelated to the tutorial and is likely to break the tutorial at any point (nobody knows how a beginner thinks :p ). Would it be possible to implement things so that a player can only do the expected action ? I mean, instead of forbiding any other actions we can think of, forbid anything that is not a precise action ? That would make coding the scenario much easier and the scenario itself will be much more resistant to bugs.
Without doubts that yes, but this is not implemented in the script, nor do I believe that some developer willing to implement it I fear. :-[

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #71 on: May 17, 2017, 02:43:14 AM »
Here is another version to continue extending the list. :P

Scenario: tutorial-v4.5.zip

Most changes are for Chapter 2.

Changes:
[Chapter 2] New step that allows to start three vehicles.
[Chapter 2] "LIAZ 677" buses are now being used.
Some corrections in the texts.

Capture:



Offline gauthier

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #72 on: May 22, 2017, 07:24:40 AM »
I noticed that you made player unable to pause the game, nice :p

Chapter 2 [1/3][4,5,6,7,8,9,10] : are all the same instruction.
Chapter 2 [1/3][11] : At the end, there are only two stops in the line, no point of using "copy backward".
Chapter 2 [1/3][12] : At closing the schedule window, I get an error popup about a waypoint not in place. The line remains empty after that.
Chapter 2 [1/3] : "when all vehicles are in circulation." what "all" vehicles ? There's no instruction about buying several ones or copying the one I bought.

Stuck there.

I'm confused as I often run into problems like this, and please forgive me if I get a little offensive ... do you actually test your scenario before uploading it ?

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #73 on: May 22, 2017, 08:26:47 PM »
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Chapter 2 [1/3][4,5,6,7,8,9,10] : are all the same instruction.
It is fixed.

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Chapter 2 [1/3][11] : At the end, there are only two stops in the line, no point of using "copy backward".
I do not understand, why not use this button? ... It seems useful to me that the vehicle travels all the stops to the return. ???

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Chapter 2 [1/3][12] : At closing the schedule window, I get an error popup about a waypoint not in place. The line remains empty after that.
I can not replicate its error, in fact I have tried many times and nothing.
Try updating your version of simutrans, and try again.
I would also like to check out a savegame.

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Chapter 2 [1/3] : "when all vehicles are in circulation." what "all" vehicles ? There's no instruction about buying several ones or copying the one I bought.
Stuck there.
In this step try to teach to use the lines, it is not allowed to copy the vehicles so that the player is forced to use the lines. What you should do is buy a vehicle, assign the line you just created and start it.
I thought this was a good idea, but if you do not think so then I change it.

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I'm confused as I often run into problems like this, and please forgive me if I get a little offensive ... do you actually test your scenario before uploading it ?

Offended? No, not at all, but I'm happy that somebody help me to test this, since this scenario is extremely complicated.

The truth is I have to do a lot of testing before releasing a new version, but for some reason some errors always escape.  :o

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #74 on: May 31, 2017, 03:21:53 AM »
Tutorial-v5.0

Scenario  -->  tutorial-v5.0.zip  (Needs the r8242 or higher).


Very happy to announce two major changes in this version:  ;D ;D ;D
1-Now can be recovered vehicles deleted:
If for some reason you delete a vehicle in circulation or send it to the deposit, the scenario will return the chapter / step so that you can recover it.

2-A link to advance in passing (chapters 1 and 2 only):
It works like the links towards coordinates, but in this one execute functions that allow to complete and to advance of step ...  thanks to dwachs http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=17135.msg163121#msg163121.





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Chapter 2 [1/3][12] : At closing the schedule window, I get an error popup about a waypoint not in place. The line remains empty after that.
@gauthier
I can not replicate the problem, but I suspect it may be caused by this: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=17140.0
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 03:32:46 AM by Yona-TYT »

Offline gauthier

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #75 on: June 06, 2017, 08:43:38 PM »
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I do not understand, why not use this button? ... It seems useful to me that the vehicle travels all the stops to the return. ???
I had only two stops in the line. I suspect there should be more.
As soon as I test your v5.0 I tell you if I run again into this.

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During the whole tutorial, player can do stuff unrelated to the tutorial and is likely to break the tutorial at any point (nobody knows how a beginner thinks :p ). Would it be possible to implement things so that a player can only do the expected action ? I mean, instead of forbiding any other actions we can think of, forbid anything that is not a precise action ? That would make coding the scenario much easier and the scenario itself will be much more resistant to bugs.
This solution should really be considered. It's obvious that achieving a bug-proof tutorial will be a long and painful way. If implementing an "only-one-permitted-action" logic is not possible in the tutorials as they are coded currently, that is probably not so difficult to implement. You could ask developers about that.

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #76 on: June 07, 2017, 05:24:47 AM »
Yes, I have seen this in tutorials of other games, and I really would like this.
Unfortunately I do not think this is implemented, because of the following:
1- Complication of the code: We all know how complicated is the simutrans code.  :o 
2- Availability of the developers: I think we only have a single developer in the script part and its availability is very limited (in fact a few days ago I expect answers to some problems).  :-[ 
3- Do developers like the idea ?: If they do not like it just will not happen, even in some cases I have provided codes for implementation, but nothing ... you can see here that most of the themes are mine. --> http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?board=143.0
Either way, I think it's always worthwhile to post an idea.  ;)

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #77 on: July 13, 2017, 02:46:26 PM »
Version 6.0 is ready !.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

The most important thing is that you can now skip steps in Chapter 3.

I have also solved some problems with the convoys in the process.

Scenario --> tutorial-v6.0.zip


Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #78 on: August 25, 2017, 03:38:11 AM »
I leave here the final version of Tutorial, hopefully it will be included in the next release of pak128. :P

Scenario -> tutorial-v6.2.01

The only major change is the support for the  button: "Promote to line -> http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=17140.0".

I hope you like it, greetings!!. ;D


Edit.

v6.2.01 A small error is fixed.
 
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 02:55:54 PM by Yona-TYT »

Offline gauthier

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #79 on: August 28, 2017, 07:14:38 PM »
Hey ! Don't worry, I have not forgotten your tutorial. I will test this as soon as possible and if it's newbie-proof enough, it will surely be included in pak128's next release ... wait ... what next release ? :p

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #80 on: August 29, 2017, 10:33:48 PM »
it will surely be included in pak128's next release ... wait ... what next release ? :p




Well I hope to be alive to see the next version of pak128.  :P

Offline gauthier

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #81 on: August 31, 2017, 07:31:22 PM »
Yes, I know. It's been a long time. I did some things which are commited to the SVN since the next release but now I feel bad releasing a new version, ages after the previous one, with only little fixes and .dat improvements  :-[

Offline gauthier

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #82 on: October 04, 2017, 07:12:42 PM »
Everything is in the screenshot. Juste after buying the bus, I get the error window poping several times a second. (Simutrans 120.2.3 rr8233 with Linux x64).

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #83 on: October 05, 2017, 02:16:12 AM »
Everything is in the screenshot. Juste after buying the bus, I get the error window poping several times a second. (Simutrans 120.2.3 rr8233 with Linux x64).

Hello friend, how are you? ... thanks for test the script.

The error is because the function "convoy_x :: is_in_depot" is available from r8235 onwards ;).

Offline gauthier

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #84 on: October 05, 2017, 05:05:22 PM »
Oh indeed, I forgot that your tutorial uses some not-released-yet features, my bad ! I will test again soon.

Offline gauthier

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #85 on: October 14, 2017, 02:33:15 PM »
I still get stuck :/

These comments are only my opinion and I won't mind if you disagree with some of them and choose not to apply them. Some of them might repeat older comments as I don't remember all that has been said.

The debug tab of the scenario information window should be removed for an actual release.

2.A: typo "once the beginning" instead of "once on the beginning"

2.B: I suggest "You can only build a depot on dead ends." instead of "You can only build a depot on an existing road and the edges of this (blind alley)." (overcomplicated and so unclear formulation)

2.C: "In case of saturation you will be charged a penalty.", as far as I know it's not the way it works. A saturated stop just stops generating new passengers or goods.

2.D: I don't know if this is fixable: stop lines in the scenario information are red again after closing the schedule window.

2.F.1: No big deal but still: I would replace "necessary" with "useful". I would also add that the line management window can be accessed through the key "w".

Problem here but same at many places "when all vehicles are in circulation" seems to apply to 2.F.1 alone whereas it applies to the whole 2.F part. Maybe a horizontal line or something to visually separate these ?

2.F.2: The instructions [3] and [4] might be confusing as one can modify a line only through the line management window which is, at this point of the tutorial, not necessarily opened (I chose to create my line through the depot's window). In my opinion these two instructions can be removed.

2.F: I have a total of two buses serving the line, the toturial does not proceed to the next step. It proceeds only if I buy a third bus.
By the way, this section would be a great place to talk about the copy convoy button.

2.G: "when the bus arrives at a stop in Lancaster" this is false, the tutorial proceeded to the next step as soon as the bus left the depot.

3.B: "Whoose the track tool", incorrect formulation as they are several track tools. A paragraph explaining that faster ways are more expensive and that one should think about it before building would be great. Then the player would be advised to built 60 or 80 kmph tracks.

3.F: why the hell is there an army or star labels invading my tracks ? :p

So this step is bugged and I'm stuck (again). The tutorial scenario says to connect the points (38, 2, 1) and (68, 18, 2), directly connecting them is not allowed. I follow the labels "Build rails form here!.", I cannot build tracks on (44, 2, 1), in fact I was only able to build a section between (38, 2, 1) and (41, 2, 1). Then the piece of tracks in (41, 2, 1) is highlited in red but I cannot build farther.

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #86 on: October 15, 2017, 02:51:51 PM »
It's ready, just a silly mistake on my part.   ;)


Scenario -> http://files.simutrans.com/index.php/s/uvtcoFRJ1tPKT9j



I'm afraid I do not have time to correct the translations.  :-[
If you send me the modified files, I gladly add them. regards !.

Offline Frank

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #87 on: October 15, 2017, 07:48:16 PM »
...
I'm afraid I do not have time to correct the translations.  :-[
If you send me the modified files, I gladly add them. regards !.

The texts are partly imported into the Translator.

Set: Scenario Tutorial pak128

Offline gauthier

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #88 on: October 18, 2017, 05:54:13 AM »
It's ready, just a silly mistake on my part.   ;)


Scenario -> http://files.simutrans.com/index.php/s/uvtcoFRJ1tPKT9j
Hence the importance of always running a complete and rigorous test before every release, and this principle applies to all kinds of computer development ;) I'm testing this as soon as possible !

Offline gauthier

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #89 on: October 20, 2017, 09:46:18 AM »
In addition of the comments I already made:

In the first steps (click on Isaac and on the town hall) when I click where expected, an empty message window appears.

2.H: problems with English translation: "Paso H", and "Public Stoppages" instead of "public stops".

3.G: Stars invasion again at the end of the step.

3.H.1: The piece of tracks on the slope where the player is supposed to start a tunnel is actually the result of a glitch/bug/unexpected-feature and might be confusing for beginners. As this piece is not necessary to start the tunnel and have it immediately connected to the tracks in front of it, it could be removed.

3.H.2: Since the player is instructed to set the layer level to 0, a note to tell him that this level is displayed in the toolbar, on the sliced underground mode button, would be great.

3.H.2: I think I already reported this one: "lower the terrain at the end of the tunnel" stays unclear to the player about what tool he should do this with (landscaping toolbar, lower flat slope tool).

3.I.5: Even if there is a note on how to set a signal's direction, player has no clue on how he has to set it to be OK. You could add a note telling that here the signals are in the good direction if there is only one signal outside the pair of tracks at each location.

3.I.5: Typos in the labels "Place Singnal here !."

3.J: The way you set train service here is quite ... unusual. Rio des Abajo is always served in only one direction by trains passing through it, and why having four different schedules when there is an obvious solution of having one line serving Cantebury - Rio de abajo - Westminster and backwards, and another line serving Cantebury and Lancaster ?

4.A: "oil" would be just enough instead of "hydrocarbons (petroleum)".

4.B: Please precise that docks have to be for goods (not passengers or mail).

4.E.1: The labels say "Build Track here!" instead of "Build canal here!".

4.E.2: There should be a not precising that canal need specific canal stops and not docks like on shores.

4.E.4: "You need 5 ships are needed" ;)

4.F: "Paso F" in English. No text is displayed in the scenario goal, I had to guess what to do, look for labels on the map, ...

4.G: "Paso G" in English. Same as before, no text displayed. I figured out with the error messages that I should have five ships, that the line should instruct to wait for 100% load at max 1/1 of month at Centebury, but I was unable to figure out what ship to use. Finally, when trying to start a Gripsholm on that line, an error message told me that I had to use a tanker. -> stuck again.

Offline Yona-TYT

Re: Pak128 Scenario Tutorial
« Reply #90 on: Yesterday at 02:09:00 PM »
Hi, what's up ?? have spent a good time!

Well here some corrections that you mentioned;).Hi, what's up ?? have spent a good time!

@gauthier
Well here some corrections that you mentioned;).

2.B: I suggest "You can only build a depot on dead ends." instead of "You can only build a depot on an existing road and the edges of this (blind alley)." (overcomplicated and so unclear formulation) ok!!

2.C: "In case of saturation you will be charged a penalty.", as far as I know it's not the way it works. A saturated stop just stops generating new passengers or goods. OK!

Problem here but same at many places "when all vehicles are in circulation" seems to apply to 2.F.1 alone whereas it applies to the whole 2.F part. Maybe a horizontal line or something to visually separate these ?this seems fine ¿?

2.F.2: The instructions [3] and [4] might be confusing as one can modify a line only through the line management window which is, at this point of the tutorial, not necessarily opened (I chose to create my line through the depot's window). In my opinion these two instructions can be removed. oK!!

2.F: I have a total of two buses serving the line, the toturial does not proceed to the next step. It proceeds only if I buy a third bus.
By the way, this section would be a great place to talk about the copy convoy button.They are 3 buses!

2.H: problems with English translation: "Paso H", and "Public Stoppages" instead of "public stops".  OK!!

3.F: why the hell is there an army or star labels invading my tracks ? :p fix !

[/b]
3.G: Stars invasion again at the end of the step. fix!!

4.A: "oil" would be just enough instead of "hydrocarbons (petroleum)".  I do not see any problem here ;)

4.B: Please precise that docks have to be for goods (not passengers or mail). Ok!!

4.E.1: The labels say "Build Track here!" instead of "Build canal here!". OK!!

4.E.2: There should be a not precising that canal need specific canal stops and not docks like on shores. OK !!

4.E.4: "You need 5 ships are needed" ;) ok!!

4.F: "Paso F" in English. No text is displayed in the scenario goal, I had to guess what to do, look for labels on the map, ... OK!!

4.G: "Paso G" in English. Same as before, no text displayed. I figured out with the error messages that I should have five ships, that the line should instruct to wait for 100% load at max 1/1 of month at Centebury, but I was unable to figure out what ship to use. Finally, when trying to start a Gripsholm on that line, an error message told me that I had to use a tanker. -> stuck again. OK