Unprofitable Coal line(or at least not much)

[mandoodgye]

I try to start a small line from a mine to a power plant, but it doesn't seem to make that much, since the 'operational profit' graph's points seem to hover barely over 0. Also, every couple months the point plummets only to hover at the same place again. The end of the month maintenance thing doesn't help either. I'm using the cheapest train in the game, the little green steamer, and 3 coal cars. At the mine and plant are 2 block long yards, and one train depot. Line is roughly 80 blocks long. BTW I'm playing the Steam version. I presume that the dip every few months is because of the coal mine not being able to keep up. Is there a certain criteria that i need to meet in order to make my line profitable? And how is the end month maintenance cost calculated? Or is this how it's supposed to be. While your at it, shoot me some newb tips as well.

[Isaac Eiland-Hall]

One thing to make sure: Are you having the train wait to be filled?

[DrSuperGood]

What pakset are you using? In pak128 coal is not very profitable and is not recommended for a starting line. In pak64 coal is very profitable and should pay for the line and engines in a few trips.

What is important is you make sure you use the slowest speed track for coal as speed does not matter much. It is also very important, especially with pak64, that you make the lines as direct as possible as you are not paid for the distance traveled during deviations and each deviation is at least 2 tiles. You also want to make sure your engine is fully utilized, hauling as many cars as practical to reduce the haulage cost per distance while still maintaining a reasonable speed (at most the slowest line speed). In pak128, due to high station maintenance, you may want to use multiple weak engines that haul few coaches in order to keep stop length, and thus maintenance, reasonable.

In pak128 I would usually recommend starting with another industry chain. Hauling oil great distances to an oil-fired power station is more profitable as you get more cargo to haul. Another good start is to move Milk to a Dairy using fast trains (it has speed bonus so trains must be fast) as that makes a lot of money for minimum effort.

When playing pak128 you will often have to operate with negative cash due to the costs of engines. As long as your company asset value (which is the sum of cash and value of all convoys) remains above 0 you will not go bankrupt. Online I often run into -10 to -20 million simudollars debt during early game due to the need for lots of convoys. As long as your profit is larger than the deflation of convoy value you will never go bankrupt. There is no interest on bank debt and the only negative side is a reminder message every month.

[mandoodgye]

Thanks for the info, I'll go mess around with it more.

[el_slapper]

Coal can work in Pak128 if you're using trucks ant don't need to build a lot of roads. Though waste is usually better in that perspective. Another truck beginning is when a forest is just nearby a raw materials seller. If the existing roads lead you to a sawmill, your truck can be full both ways. You won't have a lot of them(as a single forest does not make much trunks per month), but it's a cheap, profitable benefit.

[DrSuperGood]

Coal can work in Pak128 if you're using trucks ant don't need to build a lot of roads. Though waste is usually better in that perspective. Another truck beginning is when a forest is just nearby a raw materials seller. If the existing roads lead you to a sawmill, your truck can be full both ways. You won't have a lot of them(as a single forest does not make much trunks per month), but it's a cheap, profitable benefit.

That relies on there being unbalanced (minimal) road fees or abusing null owned roads. This is the same sort of exploit as making public stops to save on stop maintenance. Obviously when you do this you will get tons of profit because you basically have no maintenance and pak128 places most operating cost on maintenance.

[el_slapper]

That relies on there being unbalanced (minimal) road fees or abusing null owned roads. This is the same sort of exploit as making public stops to save on stop maintenance. Obviously when you do this you will get tons of profit because you basically have no maintenance and pak128 places most operating cost on maintenance.

Well, yes, it's using state-owned roads. Like in reality. Plenty of real roads are non-tolled by its owned, the state, and the business model of many road transport companies is based on this very fact : leaving the tax-payer paying the infrastructure costs instead of the company.

You might see it as an exploit, but it's an exploit that is used everywhere in the real world. If truck transport had to pay for every meter of road used, it would not be that popular against train transport, for example.

Even like that, it requires a favorable positionning to be profitable. But when there is, why should a player forbid himself what everyone does in real life? I didn't say I was building roads with the help of the public player - this would be cheating(in real life : it would be corruption). I'm just using what the public players puts me at disposition.

[Isaac Eiland-Hall]

You might see it as an exploit, but it's an exploit that is used everywhere in the real world. If truck transport had to pay for every meter of road used, it would not be that popular against train transport, for example.

While I'm not here to argue whether or not it's an exploit, I just want to say that it's not dependent on what's true for the real world, but what's true for the pak maintainer and the prices they've set that determines what's intended or not (because I don't see it as an exploit, but "what's intended or not" lol)

But bear in mind that I play with -freeplay on because I've never taken the time to learn the various paks' economies. So while I prefer making a profit, when I don't, I pretend I'm government subsidized for the sake of the various companies. hehe

[DrSuperGood]

Well, yes, it's using state-owned roads. Like in reality. Plenty of real roads are non-tolled by its owned, the state, and the business model of many road transport companies is based on this very fact : leaving the tax-payer paying the infrastructure costs instead of the company.

You might see it as an exploit, but it's an exploit that is used everywhere in the real world. If truck transport had to pay for every meter of road used, it would not be that popular against train transport, for example.

Actually companies do pay a sort of toll in real life for it. It comes in the form of road tax, fuel tax and many other taxes applied to their company vehicles. If all the money makes it to maintaining the road is another question but still. The road toll can be looked at as some form of tax you have to pay based on the usage of the infrastructure. Structure maintenance is a different problem and eventually some sort of toll/tax should be added for that.

[Ters]

There are a lot of aspects here that in real life vary with both space and time. Our current transportation infrastructure is the result of works of governments, shippers, industry and various combinations thereof. Sometimes, two or more of these are one and the same. Things that happen at some point in spacetime would even be called corruption in another point in spacetime. And things get nationalized and privatized as the political powers change, with perhaps European railroads as the best example. The only way of reflecting these things properly in Simutrans in the near future would be through some form of role-playing multiplayer game, where one player plays the government and is some form of gamemaster, while others play various private companies, which may run industries, transportation or a bit of both. For anything else, we will have to do with some artificial ruleset.